I want to recreate the map of Phaedra with the intention of making it appear to have more buildings and slightly less like a cul-de-sac.
It doesn't make sense for any group in a town that is under siege by hundreds of troops to say "well let's do the loop around the only road in town". It makes sense for them to say "holy crap, lets skulk out the back through these alleyways and try to help any people we can on the way.
Am I railroading them by putting all 4 of the target buildings along the sensible path towards the bridge? Do you think the AP was designed for them to never really hit all 4 buildings in the first place?
I am preparing to start running this AP for next week, Friday November 2nd. It occurred to me that the biggest factor in making this seem like a denser town is the fact that the Market festival is current going on- to my thinking, the market green should be full to overflowing with tents, wagons and hardwall stalls that have been set up for the market, completely removing that big clear view across town.
This means that when the Onyx Tower appears, it's in the middle of crowds of people meandering and eating festival food, totally unprepared for a bunch of soldiers to start pouring out. It also answers the question of "Wait, the PCs seriously didn't notice an invasion going on outside the thin walls of Phaendar's cheap buildings?" The Tower is under a hundred feet from the edge of the market green in any direction. Hobgoblins could be pounding down the door within three rounds of their arrival.
I don't think it seem as if the AP was designed for them not to hit all four locations, but definitely to force the party to prioritise what and who they care most about saving. As written, it is at least suggested that the party might spend a pleasant market day before the action begins, and that thay probably settle on a starting location together, whether in or out of character.
I've got a player curveball as well, that I thought would be useful to people getting ready to run. Similar to Borensoren's Ratfolk, one of my players is from a caravan of Catfolk merchants who have brought their wagons for the market. As a result, I have created a fifth location with its own Primary NPC- the Catfolk encampment, on the southern edge of the Market Green, between Oreld's and the Trading Post. This is where the party will almost definitely elect to start, over the Inn.
As far as I'm concerned, this does nothing to change the 4-location track. I've given it a resource track similar to the other locations, and added a fifth slot to all locations- visited fifth, any given location has no refugees, only a small provision count and a hobgoblin encounter, and signs of a struggle. It does, however, mean I'll be preparing some alternative dialogue- assuming the party starts there, they'll be witness to the thunderous tearing of earth and rending of booths and tents as the Spire arises, and will have the first encounter as a crit from a heavy crossbow bolt takes Aubrin from between two wagons, instead of having a door kicked in.
I definitely plan to run a session zero to get some inter-party interaction beforehand, but had prepared a secondary handout for my players alongside the Players' Guide, giving a brief rundown on the key NPCs from areas A-D, so the three PCs I have backstory from have actually already accounted for prior relationships with those NPCs. Depending on what my fourth and fifth players bring to the table, it might be a short day at the market, or as long as a half-day escort for a wagonload of goods that Oreld was expecting a day prior, which has broken a wheel down the road.
So im feeling really stupid and like I've missed something everyone else got.
But for the Visiting order for the locations in part 1, why if there this odd dependency between the starting order and the first order?
The starting order seems to have a lower value than the first order and I can't seem to rationalize it.
Im guessing its some calculation based off replacing the first encounter with The Fangs are Bared and this would explain why the provisions are lower as I assume you add on the 5 you get from the replaced encounter.
But why and from where are we suddenly amassing additional people?
To my mind I would have thought the people that are there would be there whether the party starts at this location or not. In fact I would almost expect the starting order to have more people as I would have assumed some people might die in the initial attack without the party there, like in the Riverwood Shrine, where we are told a dozen bodies lie there when the PC's visit.
As I said im sure this has a simple answer that I've either missed or over thought :)
So could someone please enlighten me
But why and from where are we suddenly amassing additional people?
To my mind I would have thought the people that are there would be there whether the party starts at this location or not. In fact I would almost expect the starting order to have more people as I would have assumed some people might die in the initial attack without the party there, like in the Riverwood Shrine, where we are told a dozen bodies lie there when the PC's visit.As I said im sure this has a simple answer that I've either missed or over thought :)
So could someone please enlighten me
Half right, yeah- the rationale seems to be that while the party is relaxed at their starting location, the Ironfangs are just arriving. Most people in Phaendar are still out enjoying the festivities. Once the army marches into town, people start to run for cover wherever they think is safe, which brings the numbers of townsfolk up. After that, they start dying off, and the numbers dwindle.
Similar with Provisions, I think the party's own food and drink are being left uncounted among provisions at the starting area, and folks ducking for cover are bringing what they have at hand, as well.
Half right, yeah- the rationale seems to be that while the party is relaxed at their starting location, the Ironfangs are just arriving. Most people in Phaendar are still out enjoying the festivities. Once the army marches into town, people start to run for cover wherever they think is safe, which brings the numbers of townsfolk up. After that, they start dying off, and the numbers dwindle.Similar with Provisions, I think the party's own food and drink are being left uncounted among provisions at the starting area, and folks ducking for cover are bringing what they have at hand, as well.
I had partially gone down that thought at one point too. But then couldn't explain away why these people would avoid rushing to the area the PC's had chosen. But if we where to imagine that the PC's location is one of the first to be hit then it would actually make sense. Everyone is running away from their location and to the other places.
Thanks for the answer, this had been bugging me for a while now.
Half right, yeah- the rationale seems to be that while the party is relaxed at their starting location, the Ironfangs are just arriving. Most people in Phaendar are still out enjoying the festivities. Once the army marches into town, people start to run for cover wherever they think is safe, which brings the numbers of townsfolk up. After that, they start dying off, and the numbers dwindle.Similar with Provisions, I think the party's own food and drink are being left uncounted among provisions at the starting area, and folks ducking for cover are bringing what they have at hand, as well.
I had partially gone down that thought at one point too. But then couldn't explain away why these people would avoid rushing to the area the PC's had chosen. But if we where to imagine that the PC's location is one of the first to be hit then it would actually make sense. Everyone is running away from their location and to the other places.
Thanks for the answer, this had been bugging me for a while now.
Well, the Pcs are just level-1 and some may be just visiting for the festivities, so it doesn't really make sense that every townsperson would know exactly where the pcs even are at, let alone know who they are in the first place, and that the pcs would even be the most powerful people in town. And townspeople would probably run to the major location closest to where they were when the invasion began.
But of course feel free to change things that best fit your game.
Has anyone implemented Edran any more than simply just a guy who steals 2d6 provisions or whatever... Seems like the most meaningless story element.
Better yet, has anybody successfully implemented Molthune any more into their adventure early on? Even if just as a red herring?
I'm thinking about having Molthune seeing the Ironfang's rampage across the Nesmian Plains as an opportunity to make strategic advances against a distracted and disorganized enemy. Have Molthuni military sieging/occupying Tamran. It might further dissuade the PC's reaction to flee to the capital and also explain why there seems to be no reinforcements to defend the people.
Thoughts? Open to suggestions of Molthuni shenanigans.
I think the problem is you're assuming the party is going to just plod along that one road, as opposed to say, sneaking around the outer edge of the town. If you actually look closely at the map, you can see that its actually ideally laid out for sneaking around. Lots of buildings and clumps of trees to cut off line of sight, alleys to cut through, etc.
I ended up creating a custom little map that has a more compact urbanized feel with the big market circle to the southern edge. My intention was to make it seem like these 400ish hobgoblins are pouring from the south of town through the main pathways in a blitzkrieg sweep, mowing down and enslaving everyone in their path. Only the few quick Ironfang scouts were able to penetrate deeper into the north of town (hence the encounters). If the PC's try top deviate back south or towards the open plains, they are granted auto-passing perception checks to see cavalry riding town escapees in the open fields or goblin phalanxes marching through the big streets, forcing them into the shadowy alleyways. This was to create the "there's only one way to go (north across the bridge), without having an NPC say "We have to cross the bridge and flee into the woods".
As the map currently as it is, without being obviously goaded, the PCs starting in any of the 4 spots around the "cul-de-sac" could just as easily use logic to flee outside of town in the closest direction away from the obvious brand new giant evil castle right in the middle.
I also wanted the Tower to be hidden in darkness, only visible from outside of town as the PCs catch it's silhouette flickering in the firelight of their now burning hometown. During their flight, they can be thinking "okay, this is a raid, we've been through these before,we can rebound", but as they look back they think "WTF...just happened."
This was my thought process, we'll see how it plays out in a month.
Have you read books 4 and 6? Molthune plays a role in those, so you should make sure your plans jive with what needs to happen for those books.
James Jacobs, Creative Director
It really does seem like that should be printed somewhere official rather than in forum posts, but I can't find it offhand.
So I'm a couple sessions in with my group who just came across Gristledown as the first clue that the Legion finally followed them across the river after they destroyed the bridge. I was preparing to start dropping hints of the pursuit of the refugee but noticed a minor nitpick.
In the Centaur encounter I noticed that the note he carries is supposedly in Common and no one in the trog lair can read it. Or converse with any of the emissaries that Scarvinious sends out to make contact for that matter, making negotiations tough.
Is this a hand wave or an oversight on Scarvinious' part or needs to be adjusted? And if so did anybody else account for this?
In the Centaur encounter I noticed that the note he carries is supposedly in Common and no one in the trog lair can read it. Or converse with any of the emissaries that Scarvinious sends out to make contact for that matter, making negotiations tough.Is this a hand wave or an oversight on Scarvinious' part or needs to be adjusted? And if so did anybody else account for this?
Might be too late a reply for you but I'd give Ighiz Common.
There are problems with her "During Combat" section having her use "Command" but not likely speaking a language that the party understands, especially as her oracle curse would restrict her to not using Common in combat anyway. You could also swap out "Command" for "Comprehend Languages".| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
In the Centaur encounter I noticed that the note he carries is supposedly in Common and no one in the trog lair can read it. Or converse with any of the emissaries that Scarvinious sends out to make contact for that matter, making negotiations tough.Is this a hand wave or an oversight on Scarvinious' part or needs to be adjusted? And if so did anybody else account for this?
Might be too late a reply for you but I'd give Ighiz Common.
There are problems with her "During Combat" section having her use "Command" but not likely speaking a language that the party understands, especially as her oracle curse would restrict her to not using Common in combat anyway. You could also swap out "Command" for "Comprehend Languages".
My take is that Common serves as Golarion's "lingua franca" and even monster races will treat with each other in Common (even more credence from the fact that goblinoids have taboos about written language, so would be unlikely to write stuff in Goblin). But giving Ighiz Common is not a bad idea, and would make a lot of sense. I made sure my players knew that Goblin, Terran, and Draconic would see a lot of use this campaign though.
Just finished my Session 2 for this AP. The PCs were not having too much trouble with the Ironfang Legion throughout Phaendar during the initial invasion, so I modified the bridge encounter a bit to raise the stakes without making it harder. Increased the hobgoblin adds from 2 to 4 and had them stumble out of the shed in the second round, at which time Kergri would bark an order for two of them to "Go get the Lieutenant! Tell him we got a whole mess o slaves tryin to run!". They take a few AoOs running past, but manage to flee the bridge area. Otherwise the encounter proceeds as normal. They down the Hobs and get to work setting the charge on the wooden support, at which point they have 5 rounds to run. On the 2nd round, Scarvinious shows up with the 2 hob adds in tow and orders them to chase down the escapees, at which point the charge blows and the bridge lists heavily. The Hobs get dumped into the river, and Scarvinious is able to introduce himself to the party by screaming at them as they flee into the woods: "I am Scarvinious and I'm gonna hunt you down and bring you skins back for my tent!"
Went quite well, I liked the idea of introducing the villain earlier and this seemed like a great way to accomplish that without it being too artificial. Now they know Scarvinious will be hunting them, as well as having a face and name for the main Book 1 villain.
...Now they know Scarvinious will be hunting them, as well as having a face and name for the main Book 1 villain
Good idea.
For my group it was just through the notes and comments from hobgoblins they tried to interrogate.I do think that keeping the pressure on through the rest of the this book is a tricky balancing act.
We got out into the forest. They found the dead trapper almost immediately. The Molthuni spy ran into the group at the site of the wasp encounter and their second campsite, but they believed his story, and he joined the group for now. They killed all six mites that were harassing the wolf pups. The mother survived and they just let the wolves go, and left the area. Not sure if I can bring myself to put the wolves in camp Red Jaw like the book suggests, it's so dark!
Anyway, how have other GMs managed the wilderness adventure? I'm using a hex map and using modified exploration & movement in sandbox campaigns. Hexes are 6 miles across instead of 12, take 1 1/2 days to fully explore vs 3, etc, etc. I'm wondering any tips or ideas people have for smoothly transitioning between navigating the hex map, using random encounters, and the AP encounters. I noticed the book does not have much in the way of random encounters for the southern Fangwood, so I've just been pulling from the basic Forest encounter table in the Game Mastery guide. I know in book 2 there is a random encounter table for the Fangwood, but the CRs are too high (4-9) for my Book 1 players. Did anyone find it a bit annoying that there was a whole Nesmian plains gazetteer and encounter table in an adventure that doesn't go there?
We got out into the forest. They found the dead trapper almost immediately. The Molthuni spy ran into the group at the site of the wasp encounter and their second campsite, but they believed his story, and he joined the group for now. They killed all six mites that were harassing the wolf pups. The mother survived and they just let the wolves go, and left the area. Not sure if I can bring myself to put the wolves in camp Red Jaw like the book suggests, it's so dark!
Anyway, how have other GMs managed the wilderness adventure? I'm using a hex map and using modified exploration & movement in sandbox campaigns. Hexes are 6 miles across instead of 12, take 1 1/2 days to fully explore vs 3, etc, etc. I'm wondering any tips or ideas people have for smoothly transitioning between navigating the hex map, using random encounters, and the AP encounters. I noticed the book does not have much in the way of random encounters for the southern Fangwood, so I've just been pulling from the basic Forest encounter table in the Game Mastery guide. I know in book 2 there is a random encounter table for the Fangwood, but the CRs are too high (4-9) for my Book 1 players. Did anyone find it a bit annoying that there was a whole Nesmian plains gazetteer and encounter table in an adventure that doesn't go there?
Yeah, it's annoying that you don't get tools for Fangwood stuff in book 1. Though you can port some of the encounters in pretty easily. The Glomwood was a really fun illusion trap to stumble into, which I ran based off the hell rides of the Chronicles of Amber. The Tyrant Jelly's valley made for an excellent bait for a group looking for a permanent home; just make sure you leave them an escape route because that Jelly will destroy them if they stand and fight it.
I didn't use Hexploration for my group. I instead printed out an in game calendar and planned out when I thought different events would trigger for the most fun and dramatic experience. I usually didn't try to squeeze more than 3 events into a given day, including random encounters (which weren't really random so much as stuff I had curated).
I strode to instil a sense of wonder and danger in the Fangwood, having the players often stumble upon things like a pack of forest drakes chasing a manticore or two giant stag beetles fighting for the attention of a female. Not all of these required the players to fight. What I struggled with a little bit was capturing the risk of not having a permanent home. My players got quite good at optimizing the survival subsystem and didn't feel a lot of pressure to try and take the Cradle of the Stone.
I handwaved the details of moving through the Fangwood. When tasks were allocated to the survivors of Phaendar some were sent to scout. They came back with the encounter locations that they thought were worth the PCs checking out. I then let the PCs get to the location (implying that they were able to follow trail markings, or one of the NPCs accompanied them but then stayed back or went scouting further). Having them come across Ironfang patrol tracks from time to time (or having to hide from larger patrols) added to the danger element.
Session 4 down. They got out with 29 survivors, so the checks to forage are mostly trivial. They usually break even on provisions between the refugees' foraged food and create water spells from the casters. I ruled that if they made enough water for everyone, their provision point attrition would be halved. So far they are pretty precious with the refugees, they don't want to send them out scouting. They usually have them foraging, setting up shelter, standing guard or herding.
Today they rolled a random encounter with a giant mantis and I ruled that they could harvest 4 PP of mantis meat! They crossed paths with the H2. Ironfang Patrol hobgoblins without killing them. The rogue used the dust of illusion from Oreld's shop to appear as a hobgoblin, and managed to pass 3 bluff checks against the credulous hobgoblins, saying her name was "Bob". The only useful intel they got out of it was the name "Red Jaw" and east as a general direction, but the party still felt they weren't ready to head that way yet.
Instead they decided to move in the direction of a column of smoke they had seen to the northwest. A couple days (during which time they encountered the hob patrol and dealt with E2. Bad Water) later they arrive at the ruins of Gristledown. They deal with the shredskin and skeletons quite handily and unfortunately I don't get one of them to wear my skin :(.
They want to keep heading north, to get further away from Phaendar/the highway, which isn't a bad instinct. Unfortunately this takes them into higher CR territory and in the wrong direction from the trog caves. So my plan is this: Aubrin will be fully recovered in the next day or two and she'll inform the party of the Chernasardo redoubt in All-eye's Wood, and strongly advise them to at least check it out. I'll have the G3. Stone Child Hunting Party and H4.The Centaur encounters somewhere along the way to try and instill urgency in dealing with the trog-hob alliance.
During our Session 0 I indicated that as this was an Adventure Path that would take characters from 1 - 18(ish) we should all agree to keep to the main story and that if things were veering too far off then I would course correct things. Not railroading, but it makes things too difficult to change on the fly later if the party is doing something other than the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path. Everyone was on-board. If it ever becomes unenjoyable then we can stop following the adventure path and all bets are off, but that needs to be a consensus decision.
So far so good.
During our Session 0 I indicated that as this was an Adventure Path that would take characters from 1 - 18(ish) we should all agree to keep to the main story and that if things were veering too far off then I would course correct things. Not railroading, but it makes things too difficult to change on the fly later if the party is doing something other than the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path. Everyone was on-board. If it ever becomes unenjoyable then we can stop following the adventure path and all bets are off, but that needs to be a consensus decision.
So far so good.
Well yeah, that's the general idea with all of the published adventure paths. Ideally, the story hooks in the AP should keep things moving in the right direction. And of course, your NPCs can... strongly exhort your PCs to follow those breadcrumbs.
That said, some veering off is always inevitable. That's why I like to read a lot the companion materials that get put out concurrent with the APs. For Ironfang, I've been reading through Lands of Conflict which has a lot of info on Nirmathas and Molthune as well as the militia rules, if you're using those. The Monster Codex as well as any materials on the fey and the Darklands have been quite helpful too. There are so many monster races in this adventure, I like to get as much info on each one so I can try and make them really memorable and distinct from one another.
I've seen people in this thread have issue with their party getting on board with basically slaughtering an entire troglodyte tribe in cold blood for their caves. My plan is to play up as much as possible the threat of the hob-trog alliance and just how bad that would be for the survivors, make sure they know these are chaotic evil creatures. They also smell horrific.
So, really, how are you pronouncing Chernasardo? I cannot for the life of me stick with one manner of saying it, and wish, not for the first time, that I had changed it immediately.
SHARE -nasardo?
SURE -nasardo?
CHAIR -nasardo?
CHTURE -nasardo?
I may just change it to Cheez-it at some point and say the hell with it!
Chur nah sar doe. I found it helped if I put a little foreign spice on the pronunciation to let me get the hang of it.
For the Trogs, you can have the players attempt diplomacy. The checks are difficult but not undoable. My players wound up subletting rooms in the cradle of stone and Handis and Ighiz became fan favorite allies.
My players murdered them all, no ragrets. Of course, the hunting party they encountered on the surface did openly discuss killing them and taking them back for food, assuming the Party was too stupid to comprehend what they were saying (3 out of 5 know draconic).
They found the charred remains of an elf in the fire pit of their messed up shrine. Handiss promised to add their bones to her wall after the Quartz that Feeds had cleaned them of their flesh. Ighiz openly gloated that Zevgavizeb had sent the Party as a test before her prophesied ascent and conquest of the surface world could begin. At a certain point, it was clear that diplomacy wasn't going to be an option. Finding the artesian well just sealed the deal. :D
Party wrapped up the attack on Camp Red Jaw. They started cautiously, scouting the location for a day or two. However, seeing a patrol of 3 enter the forest all alone was too juicy an opportunity to pass up. They ambushed the scouting party and kill them, but a few hours later, when they did not return, Scarvinious begins to become suspicious. The camp is already on edge since several patrols including their second-in-command, Fahrak have gone missing in the weeks since the Night of Iron Fangs. He locks down the camp and doubles the guard, then sends Garvex + wolves to follow the scouting party's trail. Since the party ambushed the scouts only a few hundred yards from camp, Garvex and his buddies quickly found the ambush site and came running back, yelling "It's them! It's them!" (a pyrokineticist in the party makes identifying their handiwork pretty simple).
From here, things move pretty quick. They start with the highly clever idea of assaulting the watch tower at night under cover of a Silence spell. We did the math, and unless an enemy was standing directly on the stairs below the tower, the top of the tower would be outside of the enemies' Darkvision range. The party takes out the tower guards without a hitch and now they control the tower and the high ground around the camp. The hobgoblin defenders silently yelling at each other and attempting to ring the bell was a hilarious image.
This is when the pyrokineticist pops off and starts raining fire on the camp, methodically setting each tent on fire. The melee characters file down the stairs to engage the confused and enraged hobgoblins. During the fight, the party takes a good deal of damage, but no one goes down. The camp rallied to Scarvinious near the animal pens, forming a buffer around him and using the bramble patch in the center as cover, forcing the party to advance further into the camp. However, the party carved through his protectors in a battle of brutal attrition. A handful of lucky one-shot crits thins out the defenders pretty quickly. As a last ditch effort, Yissti the alchemist gives Scarvinious her infusion of Expeditious Retreat and exhorts him to try and escape back to headquarters (in Phaendar). He flees out into the minefield where he turns and taunts the party and challenges them to send their best to face him in single combat, winner take all. Party has none of it and a lucky arrow shot finally downs him, he collapses to the ground and a mine immediately explodes in his face.
Really great encounter, all things considered. I only regret not having a real chance for Scarvinious to engage in melee with full attacks. He peppered a few with his shortbow, but generally stayed back until it was too late. My advice to GMs running this: don't be afraid to have Scarvinious get in the thick of things. Use the terrain and layout of the base as well as the tactical ability of the Hobgoblins to make the most of your defense. Don't do what I did and turtle up somewhere. Initially it was a good idea, while the PCs were on the high ground, but I should have had the defenders push back out again and surround the PCs as soon as they came down the stairs and entered the camp proper.
Oh man, that fall on the mine was great! That was awesome thanks for sharing!
I still can't help but think that Red Jaw Camp done right is a massacre of the hobs every time if the PCs take their time with gaining advantage of the tower or heights.
Unless ol'Scabby knows they are out there, purposefully empties the camp to entice the PC party to come in, THEN have his forces come back from hiding in the woods to pin the PCs in, then I can see things going more against the PCs.
My Camp Redjaw was a massacre as well. My party struck up an alliance with the Children of the Stone. The ranger used the sleep arrows to knock out the sentries in the tower and the monk crawled up to Coup de Grace them. This let the others move into position, including putting the refugees with bows outside of the minefield to pick off anyone who ran.
Ighez softened up the entire camp with repeated castings of Stone Call, which is a really overpowered spell for this context. 2d6 no save, 40 foot radius that makes the area difficult terrain? Yowza. Between that and witch rolling a flaming sphere around, the camp was in total chaos, including blowing up Alchemist tent. The monk lured out Scarvinious and got him in position.
Meanwhile the Oracle used a scroll of Stone Shape to create a ramp up the hill side and let the cavalier charge straight up into the camp and into Scarvinious. He was followed by an Enlarged Handiss (a fan favorite after several arm wrestling matches cheered on by the refugees and Trogs alike) and a few more Trogs.
Even buffing Scarvinious to not instantly die from all that, victory was a foregone conclusion.
Oh boy. Time to bump up the numbers at the camp then. I'd like Scar to at least put a little scare into my PCs so they know the IF are a deadly group.
I'm running 6 players, and they've developed good skill with melee and range, and good combat- and player- support with their oracle and arcanist.
At the point they may the camp, all the named hobs will have been meet and hunted down in the woods. Scar will have needed to call in reinforcements with such small camp numbers!
Six players!? That's insane! I have five and they were steamrolling the encounters at first (a summoner + eidolon in my party basically gives them 6 in terms of action economy). I have started to run encounters with all creatures at maximum HP and it's started to make the fights last more than 1 1/2 rounds and my monsters actually get a chance to use some of their attacks and abilities. So far I haven't actually had to add monsters to the encounters.
That said, good planning and execution by players should be rewarded, and if they stomp an encounter with good tactics, more power to them.
Another note on Scarvinious: I never had him use his greenblood oil on his arrows, but I should have. He never got a chance to use his melee attacks, so the poison never factored in to the fight.
adding extra wolves might help, especially if they can quickly get in and trip party members. If the party has the high ground then get the hobgoblins by the fire to throw a smokestick on the fire and then scatter some more around to give them cover.
I had the Phaedarites helping the party with missile cover from up top (important for their morale to feel like they could strike back). Had a returning patrol cause some fun and distraction for them, but that was essentially handled as a separate combat from the main one (and also meant the party cleric had to divide attention between keeping villagers alive and what was happening down below with the rest of the party).
Action economy and terrain have a big effect, especially if you can rearrange things in RedJaw to make it more difficult for the party members to move around and flank while dividing their attention between multiple opponents.
So, yes, I run with 6 people; but in all honesty, one’s an utter flake, but a real old friend, so it’s primarily 5 and just make some changes when he shows up. Still, I buff all encounters, enemies all have max hit points, and with changing my version of Ironfang Invasion to my campaign vision, my PCs are actually at 5th level here. Scarvinious, Yisste, and Garzen all got 2 level boosts as well (and the wererat thief was just changed to be an assistant alchemist, and Garzen received all of Yisste’s scorn and abuse in his place). Increase the numbers present at the camp in terms of all creatures, add at least one more level of fighter and-
-and it all goes for naught due to a few spells.
The lookout tower, with a single guard and warning bell (and a bell in the camp), was the first point of camp entry for my group. Waiting until dusk was settling in, and daylight really waning, the druid wild shaped to a raven, flew up there, and Natural Spelled the Mad Monkey swarm spell, taking out the sentry there who failed his saving throw. At that point, another PC put up Deeper Darkness and got a lucky shot with a crossbow deep enough into camp that the falling light caused the spell to lower the present light to become supernatural darkness that no darkvision could see through. The druid also dropped a flaming sphere onto the walkway up to the tower as the bugbear laborers came to check out the monkeys. With most being unable to find (quickly) a way through the darkened camp, or make it easily up the walkway, and wouldn’t dare try going through the minefield in utter darkness, the hobs became a staggered group. I had some putting armor back on, as well as others trying to escape the confusion and heed Scarvinious’ orders. The druid, watching in raven form from a tree, with none to the wiser, drops entangle as well, overlapping near to most of the darkness region too. Then, crossbows, a rock chuckin’ stone oracle, and a returning shield champion brawler, and the camp in utter disarray didn’t stand much of a chance at all. Oh, Gorvex followed his wolf and the worgs first, using scent and one of my PC’s terrible stealth roll to get after them. Unfortunately, during confusion of the worgs trying to get out, they lost sight during the darkness, and I rolled no higher than 24 on every chance for a mine to blow up and find them as they tracked down the PCs. A small group of PCs were able to gang up and bludgeon the weakened creatures to death as well.
In hindsight, I probably should have really amped up the guard duty aspect, and just had more patrols going around the area, to try and limit further how much chaos the PCs can bring to the camp. Once the PCs really whittled down the hobs, worgs, and bugbears from a distance, the ‘named’ villains became severely disadvantaged without all the mooks around. Oh, well, I was able to swift target 2 PCs, so it was fun to really do the ranged attacks for a while, with both sides trying to work cover with the woods on the north side of the camp, as well as dropping and ducking below the ridgeline as well.
Still a fun endeavor.
Sounds like almost no party chooses to try and navigate the minefield. I wonder if that was intentional design choice?
I know it’s really easy to nitpick and second guess what went through designer head’s and the plans set out to run an AP. I just can’t believe anyone would walk into the enemy camp within full view of the camp. If the camp was meant to be hidden, being in a ravine, well, then Scarvinious failed at that. If it was meant to be defensible...why not put the alarm bombs all around the upper perimeter too? It’s also assumed, even in descriptions of the camp, to attack at night when the camp rests. This part of the adventure really does just seem to be a big set up to be a big win for the PCs.
Erpa's descriptions are handy for my own planning about Camp Red Jaw.
I adapted Trail of the Hunted to Pathfinder 2nd Edition rules, so my party definitely won't attack at night. PF2 darkvision has unlimited range, so the hobgoblins can see fine at night and probably sleep in shifts.
As for poor defense design, I play The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Elder Scrolls Online and the designers in those computer games think that building a camp or city at the base of a cliff is a great defense. Visually, a cliff looks like a wall. However, the player characters are free to jump down the cliff, cast a heal spell (more like a cantrip), and attack the camp. For Camp Red Jaw, the PCs might tie a rope to descend without damage, but it still looks easy.
And visually, running across an open field toward a palisade wall seems like setting oneself up as a moving archery target. The minefield is merely an extra incentive to avoid that hazardous approach. I will follow Erpa's suggestion and put some alarm bombs on the upper perimeter, too.
I think I got confused and ran the camp as elevated on a cliffside, not at the bottom of a canyon. Made a lot more sense intuitively and I had trouble reading the map. The players used Ighez to detonate the minefield anyway, and then the scroll or Stone shape to make a ramp up the west side cliff face to charge Scarvinious. Good times.
...
I’m having the same problems with Aubrin. The biggest problem is that my party wants to provide magical healing and they expect this to make her a full participant. Considering this is a magical world, how has anyone else dealt with this?
From the AP: "A PC can attempt a DC 15 Heal check or apply any amount of magical healing to end Aubrin’s bleed damage and reduce her stunned condition to staggered. After at least 8 hours of additional rest, her condition improves to sickened, which persists for another 7 days as her fractured ribs heal. The extensive injury also reduces her speed by 10 feet until the sickened condition passes."
The PCs can apply healing to keep her alive and reduce stunned to staggered, but you can have it that a successful Heal check reveals that to further reduce her condition will require rest rather than more magic. As she will be staggered for 8 hours she can only move or act, not both, and getting out of the town is a priority.
Once recovered from staggered she still has fractured ribs - again you can use a Heal check to indicate that magical healing won't fix it, but only time. Aubrin is a cleric too and can also provide this advice if the party can't do Heal checks. She can give advice to the PCs that due to her poor eyesight she is better to help coordinate the refugees and provide advice rather than adventure. Bog the PCs down with management tasks and unless they want to play "Papers & Paychecks" they will be glad for Aubrin to take that load off them.
For later in the AP, while it says heal or restoration is required to remove her blindness, I let the PC cleric cast Remove Blindness on hitting 5th level. By then the relationship of PCs going out and doing stuff and Aubrin taking a background management role had been established and Aubrin's constant advice had been to the PCs to show that they could succeed without her so that the refugees not only saw them as capable without relying on her, but gave the refugees hope to improve themselves as well. She is a mentor, not a saviour, to the group.
Also, my group is wanting to make a push for the closet city, likely longshadow. I know the ironfang is supposed to control the roads and make that impossible for now, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
It isn't the Nirmathi way. The refugees plan to wait for the Hobgoblins to move on so that they can go back and rebuild their town. Any group that goes begging to another town for help is looked down on. It also diminishes their opportunity for revenge. You'll have the more capable refugees thanking the PCs for helping them escape the fight in town but then staying in the forest and refusing to head to Longshadow or Tamran no matter how much the PCs demand it, and the more the PCs try and force the issue the more the NPCs will fight against it - Nirmathi independence and the tactics they have used against Molthune for decades are key here and initial perceptions will be that this is just another Molthuni attack (despite the Ironfang Legion getting as far as Phaendar undetected).
My group never wants anyone to steal their limelight, so they had no interest in using Aubrin to fight for them.
But besides that, I ruled that Aubrin's "injuries" were more than just physical. She is emotionally and mentally reeling from seeing her beloved town and townsfolk get brutally attacked and destroyed. That leaves the PCs as the only ones really equipped to stand up and fight back. Aubrin goes into an almost catatonic spiral of despair, while the PCs fight to survive in those early days on the run.
After the week long recovery period where the PCs are struggling through the forest with the refugees, she returns to herself and apologizes profusely for being so useless and thanks the PCs for stepping up. She promises that she won't let herself despair like that again, and afterward steps into a much more supporting role.
I’m having the same problems with Aubrin. The biggest problem is that my party wants to provide magical healing and they expect this to make her a full participant. Considering this is a magical world, how has anyone else dealt with this?They give her several penalties so all she can really do is heal in the first section and even somewhat into the second section. Not to mention that after the escape from Phaender she pretty muh takes a back seat and guides the refugees while letting the PC's be the hero. She isn't really suppoused to assist in the fights.
Why?
She is a very powerful character who could solo the first book. The rules are horribly mangled with her around.
Trying to downplay her doesnt really work because she is central to phaendar as the local celebrity. She also has a big monlogue in the middle of the book..
Its really sad imo, because of how great the rest of the book is.
I dodged this bullet by accident. I adapted Ironfang Invasion to Pathfinder 2nd Edition and had to rebuild Aubrin as a ranger with cleric dedication, which is closer to ranger 5/cleric 1 than ranger 3/cleric 3. i also slowed her speed to 20 feet, due to her peg leg, so that she was not the best scout.
In addition, the PC Zinfandel is an elf ranger with an adapted Chernesardo-hopeful background, so he is Aurbin's trainee. Thus, Aubrin started in the mentor role and kept that role.
I also skipped the cut scene on page 7 where Aubrin is pierced by a ballista bolt. Phaendar had already received news that Ecru had been invaded and that Longshadow was preparing for a siege. Thus, the town was on alert for the Ironfang Legion. They were caught by surprise only by the legion competely bypassing their sentries, but a messenger got to the Taproot Inn before the hobgoblins did. Aubrin helped the party hold the bridge while refugees ran across it, and thus, was the only high-level NPC to cross the river with the refugees.
The end result is that Aubrin became the moral support and primary protector of 30 refugees. The party, including Zinfandel who Aubrin promoted from trainee to full Chernesardo ranger, became Aubrin's elite scouting team while Aubrin remained with the villagers to protect them.
Also, my group is wanting to make a push for the closest city, likely longshadow. I know the ironfang is supposed to control the roads and make that impossible for now, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
Once the refugees reached Veld's shack (Section F2. Local Hermit), my players seriously roleplayed the discussion about where to go. Longshadow was 50 miles to the northwest and probably going under siege soon, Tamran was 150 miles to the east, and the forts of the Chernesardo rangers where 20 miles north across hostile fey territory. The wizard Veld decided that she was going to Longshadow and would take 5 other people because her Create Food spell could feed six people. The PC Sam the goatherder (scoundrel rogue with strong animal-handling skills) donated one goat to her so that she could take 6 other people instead. The bard Edran charismatically made a case for going to Tamran, the capital city of Nirmathas, which was also close to the Molthune border. Aubrin wanted to go to a ranger fort, but her first step would be to send the party to hidden Chernesardo ranger outpost (Section I. All-Eye's Wood) to find a guide who knew the fey.
The party decided to hide the refugees in a cave that Aubrin remembered being used temporarily by the Chernesardo rangers during the Independence War in 4655 AR (Part 3: Cradled in Stone) before they went to the hidden outpost. The Tamran faction agreed with this, since the cave was to the east toward Tamran. The Longshadow faction did not care, because its strongest proponents were leaving with Veld. Aubrin agreed because it freed up the party for the mission to the hidden outpost.
My playes roleplay effectively. They derail a module only when their derailment improves the story.
In theory, Titan671 could let his or her party head toward Longshadow and never do Part 3: Cradled in Stone. They could level up by fighting the hobgoblins who control the roads. Camp Redjaw would mobilize and catch up to them so that the party would still fight Scarvinious. Once they defeat Scarvinious and reach Longshadow, the Longshadow leaders send them to the forts of the Chernesardo rangers to begin Fangs of War.
I made Veld the great-aunt of one of my PCs (as well as ex-wife of Father Noelan) and she was way too frail to lead anyone anywhere. In fact, they made a strong appeal to her to join them at the trog caves, but she stubbornly refused saying she's lived in this house for 30+ years, and she starts rattling off the Molthuni invasions and Fey tomfoolery she's endured over the years; very "old timer who lived thru the Great Depression" vibes going on with her.
My group is on the 3rd owlbear attack from early Book 2 at the moment, and they might target Veld's cottage this time instead of the refugees. Luckily she does have some spellcasting at her disposal, and I also decided to give her a few "babies" in the form of a handful of Xtabay plants arranged around her little garden plot, which may act as owlbear deterrent.
Hello Everyone,
This is my first AP and my first time running a game ever!
My party is about to face off against Scarvinious and I was wondering how he is able to make multiple attacks with his shortbow? Does this have to do with his Two Weapon Fighting Feats/SQs I don't see anything that is specifically dedicated to ranged weapons in his Feats/SQs. I also looked at his BAB and it isn't that since he is only Level 5. If anyone can help me figure this out I would really appreciate it!
Thanks for reading hope you all have a great day,
Cakewok
Without pulling up his stat block, I'd guess that you're only looking at his BAB from his slayer levels, not his racial hit dice. Bugbears, being martial monsters, probably start with at least one BAB out the box.
Without pulling up his stat block, I'd guess that you're only looking at his BAB from his slayer levels, not his racial hit dice. Bugbears, being martial monsters, probably start with at least one BAB out the box.Hello Everyone,
This is my first AP and my first time running a game ever!
My party is about to face off against Scarvinious and I was wondering how he is able to make multiple attacks with his shortbow? Does this have to do with his Two Weapon Fighting Feats/SQs I don't see anything that is specifically dedicated to ranged weapons in his Feats/SQs. I also looked at his BAB and it isn't that since he is only Level 5. If anyone can help me figure this out I would really appreciate it!
Thanks for reading hope you all have a great day,
Cakewok
This is correct. The CR 2 bugbear from the PF1 Bestiary has Base Atk +2, three Hit Dice, and zero levels. Scarvinious is CR 7, Base Atk +7, eight Hit Dice, and has five levels of slayer. Slayer is a full BAB class.
In summary, Scarvinious has BAB +7, the sum of +2 from being a bugbear and +5 from 5 levels of slayer. He gains an extra attack at a -5 penalty from having BAB 6 or higher.
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About to run this for my group starting saturday via Roll20. I'm worried about a sufficient hook for the party members. Most of the players have played in Crypt of the everflame that i adapted for 2e and i am thinking about using the opening encounter in Mask of the Living god to start the PCs in Kassen and have them meet the pathfinder agent. Instead the agent will arraign for them to meet and gather Andoran traders who are smuggling arms into Nirmathas (per the clandestine support that Andoran offers per Lands of conflict). They have to take the arms to Phaendar to the market festival to meet drop them off to Aubrin when all hell breaks loose. The PCS would be a new formed militia group from Kassen, and i want to emphasis that Nirmathas is taking a lull in the war with Multhane to re arm up and recruit (As best as a country of libertarian militas can). I like this as it is not so abrupt and it ties into what my players know of the world in real life. However, I am worried that not making them from Phaendar itself will weaken their connection to trying to save the town. Any thoughts on opening scenes to flesh out play before all hell breaks loose? Thanks
I think you might be overthinking it. The beauty of the games opening is that motivations and hooks don't really matter. When the call to adventure happens, it doesn't matter if the players answer because it literally breaks down the door with siege weapons. The only thing you really need to worry about is that the party is willing to go rescue NPCs when the fit hits the shan. As long they don't make a break for it on their own, the rest of the story unfolds naturally from there.
Well, the Trog cave could be a bit of a stumbling block, but that doesn't really interact with origin stories.
Agreed. Nirmathi aren't about saving their towns, they are about saving the people. Individualism coupled with looking out for each other. There are heaps of potential hooks and if you know your players you should be able to find something that works.
Having said that, during our Session 0, I outlined that while the game is about having fun, the story is an Adventure Path. If they wanted to go off script too much then we would need to consider abandoning the AP rather than trying to create a Frankenstein's monster campaign, but if they were willing to accept the (hopefully infrequent) nudge in the direction of the unfolding story then it would reduce my prep time and hopefully be a more fulfilling journey for the characters. Everyone agreed to follow the AP and we've been able to easily push the parts that the players are less interested in exploring (refugee management, etc) into the background.
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Yeah, when I started, I didn't even have them spend the day at the festival. I just described how they find themselves in the Taproot Inn as the first day of the festival winds down after a long day of axe throwing, pie eating, and story telling. I gave each PC a chance to tell a story (and introduce themselves to each other) in the pub with Aubrin before she gives her dialogue from the book and the ballista shatters the door.
Unlike erucsbo and Billy Buckman's campaigns, I began my Ironfang Invasion story six days before the Ironfang Legion invaded Phaendar and some player characters had strong ties to the village.
The calendar change was due to character design and player circumstances. First, one player created a goblin alchemist for the game. I could not justify a goblin in Phaendar without causing trouble. Therefore, I rearranged the plot around the trouble. A band of ten goblins from a tribe near Ecru had fled the Ironfang Legion's invasion of Ecru, followed the Marideth River eastward, and ended up in Phaendar. Second, some players could not play immediately due to schedules, so I was delaying the game until they were available. Then my wife's father fell sick and she was going to head out of town for a month to help him. She wanted a two-session preliminary adventure to introduce her character Sam before she left, so that I would play Sam consistently as an NPC until her return.
The first session began with Zinfandal, PC elf ranger, returning from his latest errand and looking for his mentor Aubrin the Green at the Taproot tavern. Jet told him that Aubrin was dealing with a problem at the Riverwood Shrine. Cleric Noelan, Vane Oreld, and Aubrin were arguing about ten goblins refugees (including Tak, PC goblin alchemist) who had just arrived in town. Cleric Noelan was willing to offer them food and shelter (his assistant Rhyna was already giving blankets to the goblins), Oreld wanted them out of town, and Aubrin was after news about the army they had run from. PC gnome druid Stormdancer and blacksmith Kining Blondebeard (her hireling goatherder Sam, PC halfing rogue, in tow) soon showed up. The result was that Zinfandel, Stormdancer, Sam, and a goblin (Tak's player could not make that session) would scout halfway to Ecru to see whether the army was approaching Phaendar. On the road (next game session) they encountered PC lizardfolk champion Ishmael, who joined them.
The journey, including a side trip suggested by Ishmael, took six days and encountered only wildlife. They had not spotted any advance by the hobgoblin army. The evening of the day they returned, the Ironfang Legion invaded via Stone Road portal. The sixth player showed up that game session, a messenger PC gnome rogue Binny sent from Longshadow with news of the invasion of Ecru.
Thus, I never needed the Market Festival. Three PCs--Zinfandel, Sam, and Stormdancer--lived near Phaendar, and three PCs--Tak, Ishmael, and Binny--had arrived due to invasion-related events.
The only thing you really need to worry about is that the party is willing to go rescue NPCs when the fit hits the shan.
Ironically, the PCs escaped the invasion because they were outsiders. Phaendar's population consisted of 305 humans, 32 half-orcs, 21 dwarves, 17 half-elves, and 28 other. The party was entirely in the "28 other" category. Most able-bodied villagers organized to fight off the hobgoblin invaders. But people like Kining Blondebeard and Cleric Noelan saw the PCs as people who should not die for Phaendar because they were different. They were asked to guard the bridge as the villagers who could not fight fled over it to hide in the goat pastures. And therefore, the PCs helped Aubrin destroy the bridge when the village fell and ended up on the safe side of the river.
This lead to a different role for the PCs than the module intended. Aubrin and Rhyna protected the Phaendar refugees. Zinfandel and his PC friends ran errands for her, such as scouting ahead for food and shelter. Decisions were made in meetings with the villagers or in the field.
The PCs being nonhuman will probably become a plot point again. At the very least, General Azaersi might begin a rant against humans, elves, and dwarves due to the trouble caused by the party and then be surprised to learn that none of them are human, elven, or dwarven.
I had a fun time connecting early NPCs to the PCs' backstories.
The party has 1 longtime Phaendar resident, a dwarf pyrokineticist raised by and apprenticed to Kining Blondbeard, one of the few that knows her true backstory. He was also best friends with Vane Oreld, getting drunk and "experimenting" with Vane's stump remover and his own pyro-powers.
Next up is a half-elf summoner from Erages, recently arrived in Nirmathas who developed a rapport with Father Noelan. Little did he know, Noelan was actually his ex- step- great- uncle. I decided that Noelan and Veld once had a thing before they fell out over the classic Arcane/Divine divide. It was fun seeing him become over-protective of his Great Auntie Veld, and try to convince her to move to the caves where it's safer. The elven logger Vardalel also recognized this PC from the orphanages in Erages.
The witch is a young man from Tamran, and his father is Mayslen Torgun aka Speaker of the Leaves. As a relatively upper middle class, important family (by Nirmathi standards), they had enough cash saved to send the boy to the Acadamae in Korvosa, after learning he had some magical aptitude. However, the book learnin' didn't take, and instead of summoning a devil during his exam, he ended up with his witch's familiar. The Acadamae was none too happy, and the witch was forced to flee back to Nirmathas, potentially with pissed off devil binders on his tail. In Fort Ristin, the ghost actually recognized him, having had dealings with Speaker Torgun in the past. Rhyna ends up having an adorable crush on him.
Next is the Foxclaw scout elf rogue, who spent the last several decades skirmishing with Molthuni along the borderlands. But originally, she comes from deep in the Fangwood. Her familiy was driven out by the encroaching Darkblight, and she actually lived in a small village near the quicklings from Book 5. Of all the PCs she has the greatest knowledge of the Fangwood and the rangers. At Camp Red Jaw, she recognizes the dead elf Drellivielle from her adolescence and dons his Cloak of Woodland Creatures to honor him.
Finally, we have our fighter. A Molthuni runaway, who's older brother is none other than General Hakar of Fort Ramgate. At session 1, she has just arrived in Phaendar, on the run from Ramgate. The only one who recognizes her is Edran the bard. I tied his event into this backstory, part of his motivation to escape is bringing the info of this PC's whereabouts back to Hakar.