PFS ruling request, Eidolon Weapons per their Evolution?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

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Is an (Unchained) Eidolon with the Simple or Martial weapon Evolution, in PFS, able to be summoned with their weapons, or do the weapons need to be handed to the Eidolons after summoning them? And if so, what kind of action is it to equip the Eidolon with weapons so they can use their Evolutions?

Not looking for free weapons or unlimited storage, just trying to figure out how the logistics work with this evolution option in PFS, especially if it were to come up in combat.


Generally as a rule of convenience I'll allow the Eidolon to hold the weapons it wields. So basically it'll be summoned wielding the weapon it was holding when it was dismissed. No sheathes or anything like that.

Scarab Sages

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Generally as a rule of convenience I'll allow the Eidolon to hold the weapons it wields. So basically it'll be summoned wielding the weapon it was holding when it was dismissed. No sheathes or anything like that.

What about a Heavy Crossbow and Bolts? They're simple weapons and the Unchained Eidolon doesn't mention anything about it being exclusively melee weapons (perhaps an oversight?).


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Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Generally as a rule of convenience I'll allow the Eidolon to hold the weapons it wields. So basically it'll be summoned wielding the weapon it was holding when it was dismissed. No sheathes or anything like that.
What about a Heavy Crossbow and Bolts? They're simple weapons and the Unchained Eidolon doesn't mention anything about it being exclusively melee weapons (perhaps an oversight?).

Haven't thought about it. Not likely to think about it unless I have to.

Scarab Sages

So although my question is more generic, one aspect I'm curious about is in regard to the Artillery Team feat. The medium/small Eidolon with the Simple weapon training is certainly eligible, but the question is if it can summon with the Large Heavy Crossbow and bolts (Large bolts?). The question arrises because the Eidolon, by herself, can't actually wield the Large Heavy Crossbow, so it's more summoning with equipment, even if the feat would allow them to use it once they arrived.

But, yeah, with the Unchained Eidolon, my first thought with the weapon training option was making an eidolon with a crossbow, or other ranged weapon (like thrown weapons). You mentioned no sheathes, in your example, would the eidolon be only able to throw up to two weapons since they only have two arms?

Anyway, although the point isn't to game the system, it does matter for carry weight purposes and for understanding the actions required to make the eidolon viable with weapons.


I believe (from previous discussions) that by RAW Eidolons don't get to hang on to gear when dismissed, so you've got to hand it to them when they're summoned.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:

So although my question is more generic, one aspect I'm curious about is in regard to the Artillery Team feat. The medium/small Eidolon with the Simple weapon training is certainly eligible, but the question is if it can summon with the Large Heavy Crossbow and bolts (Large bolts?). The question arrises because the Eidolon, by herself, can't actually wield the Large Heavy Crossbow, so it's more summoning with equipment, even if the feat would allow them to use it once they arrived.

If the eidolon can't wield it, then it doesn't travel with the eidolon when the eidolon is dismissed.

So now that I'm forced to think about it. The most that the eidolon can take with it when dismissed, is a ranged weapon sized for it. with either one bolt loaded if it's a crossbow... or just the bare bow with no arrows.

Then again I've never seen anyone build an eidolon as anything other than a melee cuisinart.

Scarab Sages

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Then again I've never seen anyone build an eidolon as anything other than a melee cuisinart.

Well, they have low dex on the ones that start with arms, and they don't really have a lot of bonuses, so it's not really optimal, which is probably why you haven't seen it much.

As for arrows and bolts, they are listed on the weapon table, so it would be hard, I think, to exclude them based on them not being "weapons".

For rules, doesn't seem like they really thought out how the weapon option was supposed to function. As written, it's kinda unclear if eidolons can wield improvised weapons, exotic weapons (with or without the feat), and so forth.

Anyway, still hoping for a more exact understanding of the rules for use in PFS. More like a GM ruling. Even just a dozen posters that AGREE, would be enought.

Andy Brown wrote:
I believe (from previous discussions) that by RAW Eidolons don't get to hang on to gear when dismissed, so you've got to hand it to them when they're summoned.

Okay, so the summoner uses the "Summon Eidolon" Spell to summon their eidolon in a single round (2nd level spell, 1 round casting time). Azata Eidolon arrives and has no weapons. What actions would be required to give them weapons? For example, giving the Eidolon a Sword and a Dagger, what action is this? Or, giving them a Quiver (with arrows) and a longbow?

Issue here is that the eidolon isn't "drawing" a weapon, they don't have any. So the choices are 3, fight without a weapon, pick one up off the ground, or "somehow" acquire one from another character. None of these choices represent a 2 or 4 point evolution for your eidolon. Or the entire Azata subtype.


Taking an item from someone else would most likely to a move action. I have generally allowed people to hand an item to someone else using their move action.

That seems to fit reasonably well within the "pick up an item" or "retrieve stowed item" options from the Actions in Combat Table.

There is a James Jacobs post somewhere suggesting that eidolons leave with no gear so couldn't be summoned with anything on them. James isn't a rules guy but it is probably about as close to an official answer that we have.

Expect table variation.

Scarab Sages

andreww wrote:

Taking an item from someone else would most likely to a move action. I have generally allowed people to hand an item to someone else using their move action.

That seems to fit reasonably well within the "pick up an item" or "retrieve stowed item" options from the Actions in Combat Table.

There is a James Jacobs post somewhere suggesting that eidolons leave with no gear so couldn't be summoned with anything on them. James isn't a rules guy but it is probably about as close to an official answer that we have.

Expect table variation.

So if my eidolon wants a longbow and quiver, that's the 1 round cast time to get the eidolon (via the Summon Eidolon spell), then two move actions for the longbow and quiver? Plus someone else, maybe the summoner, needs to have these out, so they can hand them to the eidolon?

So, gotta ask, is the 4pt evolution just basically 2 bonus feats (simple and martial weapon proficency), or is it actually an "evolution"? Really doesn't feel like an evolution if the weapons can't be summoned with the eidolon...

Can the Eidolon just take Simple, martial, or exotic Weapon Proficency as a bonus feat, instead of burning evolution points?


Taking a feat is almost certainly better than spending evolution points or just use the Azata which gets all martial weapons.

Silver Crusade

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Eidolons appear naked without equipment and leave any equipment behind when they disappear. That is my personal ruling on the issue. Whether or not an Eidolon is proficient, or has any sort of evolution that affects weapons is immaterial.

The Exchange

So what would be the point in them sharing magic item slots? You have to dress them if you ever want them in combat? Also when you use summon planar ally and you pay them could you not just wait till they go back and you just pick your gold up again?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Afraid I can't answer for PFS.

Any way you do it is sticky. If an Eidolon keeps any items it is handed or wearing from the material plane, players could abuse it by handing an Eidolon a plot mcguffon and then simply never recall the Eidolon ever again for that adventure.

The other sensible option is that all equipment stays behind unless the summoner uses a gate to visit the Eidolon on its home plane. Any equipment given an Eidolon via this method would be treated as the equipment from summoned creatures - always appearing with the Eidolon, and vanishes once the Eidolon is dismissed. The potential abuse is "fools gold", having the Eidolon pay for things with money the Eidolon owns, which will vanish when the Eidolon is dismissed. Considering how high a level a summoner needs to be to have gate, that shenanigan is the least of a GM's worries at that point.


leonvios wrote:

So what would be the point in them sharing magic item slots? You have to dress them if you ever want them in combat? Also when you use summon planar ally and you pay them could you not just wait till they go back and you just pick your gold up again?

A better question is why would you ever not have the eidolon out. I can think of a few reasons involving evil creatures but that isn't enough to be a huge problem.


MadScientistWorking wrote:
leonvios wrote:

So what would be the point in them sharing magic item slots? You have to dress them if you ever want them in combat? Also when you use summon planar ally and you pay them could you not just wait till they go back and you just pick your gold up again?

A better question is why would you ever not have the eidolon out. I can think of a few reasons involving evil creatures but that isn't enough to be a huge problem.

Because you prefer to use the summon monster SLA. Certainly my summoner mostly does that. The eidolon is a skill monkey brought out if we need someone to deal with traps but it also pretty handy with a weapon. Summon eidolon means it will occasionally be in combat.

Scarab Sages

MadScientistWorking wrote:
leonvios wrote:

So what would be the point in them sharing magic item slots? You have to dress them if you ever want them in combat? Also when you use summon planar ally and you pay them could you not just wait till they go back and you just pick your gold up again?

A better question is why would you ever not have the eidolon out. I can think of a few reasons involving evil creatures but that isn't enough to be a huge problem.

A multiclass summoner's eidolon is very frail, so you'd only want it out when it was needed.

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