So, while I was mulling over some silly ideas, I thought about Polymorph Any Object. What sorts of living creatures can you actually turn something into, and what does it retain?
I know some things should be obvious. I could turn a hat into a person, or a person into a book, or I could do most anything I wanted. But as for making things permanent, if I turn a wolf into a dog - that's permanent. If I turn a human into a giant - that's permanent (+5 same kingdom, +2 same or lower intelligence, +2 same class).
But can I polymorph people permanently into more exotic, magical forms?
Let's say, for instance, there's a player that thinks succubi are hot, so they want to kick it up a notch and use Polymorph Any Object to turn their human sorceress into a succubus. Well, a succubus is part of the same kingdom, right? And it's the same size, and it's got the same or lower intelligence. So, presumably, that means the character is now a succubus physically.
But what are the character's stats now? Do they gain the defensive qualities? Speeds? Special abilities? They can still cast spells, right? Do their physical stats change to match a standard succubus's stats? And the change can always be dispelled away, right?
What about polymorphing into awakened animals? Do you need Awaken to turn a bear into an Awakened bear, or could you get the same effect with Polymorph Any Object?
Would it simply be best to use Polymorph Any Object to turn yourself into something with a ton of natural attacks and good movement speeds and the like (assuming you don't keep Special Qualities and the like)?
Are there ways to boost the permanency of Polymorph Any Object besides following the guidelines? Are there ways to make it virtually unable to be dispelled or turned off with Antimagic?
Pretty curious about what all you can do with this spell and what its limitations are.
EDIT: What about templates? Could someone seeking eternal youth use this to turn themselves into, say, a Young version of something? Complete with the stat changes? I could see that being very beneficial to certain builds.
Dot.
EDIT: What about templates? Could someone seeking eternal youth use this to turn themselves into, say, a Young version of something? Complete with the...
From the Magic section:
Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1) succubus is part of the same kingdom, right? And it's the same size, and it's got the same or lower intelligence.
2) But what are the character's stats now?
3) Do they gain the defensive qualities? Speeds? Special abilities?
4) They can still cast spells, right?
5) Do their physical stats change to match a standard succubus's stats?
6) And the change can always be dispelled away, right?
7) What about polymorphing into awakened animals?
8) Do you need Awaken to turn a bear into an Awakened bear, or could you get the same effect with Polymorph Any Object?
9) Are there ways to boost the permanency of Polymorph Any Object besides following the guidelines?
10) Are there ways to make it virtually unable to be dispelled or turned off with Antimagic?
11) What about templates?
1) yes yes compare int scores
2) no stat changes except what's in the spell and the stat changes if you are not normally small or medium in the polymorph school.3) you get the abilities polymorph any object details, plus "{base speed changes}, {any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks}, {If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell}
4) {When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body ... Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion)}
So ask your GM if you can cast in outsider succubus form.
5) no ability changes except the school changing you to small/medium before applying the polymorph and those detailed in polymorph any object.
6) yes it's permanent duration
7) awakened bear isn't a creature, it's a spell effect
8) need awaken the spell
9) no
10) no no
11) no read the school rules - all of which answered questions above that I used quotes in {} to answer you
Very tidy set of answers, thanks!
That's probably the most RAW answer I've ever seen to the question of "what happens when you polymorph any object something into something that doesn't have a polymorph spell associated to it?"
Still, I can't help but think that's not what's intended. Such a RAW interpretation would make for some bizarre configurations.
Let's take aberrations for example, since there is currently no other way to polymorph into them. Are you really going to tell me that a victim transformed into a gibbering mouther couldn't benefit from the amorphous trait, allowing its malleable and shapeless physical form to slip through a narrow opening, while also allowing someone else polymorphed into a viper to slip through the same opening? Why? They are both physical traits. The gibbering mouther is still going to be "malleable and shapeless" even if you don't grant it the amorphous trait. The gibbering mouther wouldn't have all around vision despite having multiple eyes, even while you give it multiple bites for having multiple mouths?
Would you let someone polymorphed into a medium snake fit through a small space, but not someone polymorphed into a medium gibbering mouther?
If so, why? How? Is that not against RAW? According to your interpretation, neither should be able to as neither should have amorphous or compression or any similar ability.
If not, how is that not totally a barrier against your players' ability to immerse themselves in the roleplaying game?
Many people who use RAW like you do often argue that this is a permissive game. If the rules don't permit it, you can't do it. If that's the case here, then please explain the above. Heck, use your own example. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind your interpretation of the rules.
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Snake is fine, as it's an inch tall at most.
Gibbering is huge but less amorphous than a real one.
Both match RAW well, but as a GM you are welcome to adjust to taste.
Issue with roleplaying, see "adjust to taste" comment. No one truely plays "RAW" as that leads to PunPun malarkey.
I'm usually labeled as the one refuting RAW not the "user of RAW."
Pathfinder is a permissive system. I have all my answers above from that view. Every game has a GM to fill in the holes in any system, such as allow things not explicitly permitted but seem in line with RAW and RAI. That GM is also there to reign in silly interpretations of RAW to say "no it doesn't work that way despite you interpreting it that way".
So to really answer your question:
If you were at my non-PFS table I'd say sure - you get aquatic if you have a swim speed maybe you should get amorphous if you have a land speed and an amorphous body.
If you were at a PFS table I'd say - don't you have a better form you could have chosen in this case, can you just choose that form? Gibbering isn't a combat form and a tiny snake could fit through better.
How would anyone have access to PaO in PFS in the first place? Doesn't it cap at 12th-level or something?
How would anyone have access to PaO in PFS in the first place? Doesn't it cap at 12th-level or something?
Nope, runs up to 20th, but routes for doing so are limited. A handful or so of scenarios, but mostly sanctioned sections of APs, so getting to 20th might be challenging. A player should be able to get 1-2 characters to 17th though (as a guesstimate).
I'm usually labeled as the one refuting RAW not the "user of RAW."
Pathfinder is a permissive system. I have all my answers above from that view. Every game has a GM to fill in the holes in any system, such as allow things not explicitly permitted but seem in line with RAW and RAI. That GM is also there to reign in silly interpretations of RAW to say "no it doesn't work that way despite you interpreting it that way".
Yeah, this all is very true. I'll discuss RAW any day, but most tables get run with a mix of RAW, RAI, and "What makes the game most fun?" It's good to know what the RAW is, though.
Would you let someone polymorphed into a medium snake fit through a small space, but not someone polymorphed into a medium gibbering mouther?
If so, why? How? Is that not against RAW? According to your interpretation, neither should be able to as neither should have amorphous or compression or any similar ability.
If not, how is that not totally a barrier against your players' ability to immerse themselves in the roleplaying game?
Many people who use RAW like you do often argue that this is a permissive game. If the rules don't permit it, you can't do it. If that's the case here, then please explain the above. Heck, use your own example. I'm just trying to understand the logic behind your interpretation of the rules.
Polymorph had no real rules other than 'you are the creature' - all that changed and now there are rules.
Why?
To attempt to keep the game balanced somewhat.
Did it work?
At lower levels - yes.... at higher levels... meh you get better mileage out of flesh to stone usually without the complications. However turning your enemy into a toad is still a quintessential trope of the wizard/witch.
I'm tempted to go back to the wild and crazy 'whatever' at the level Polymorph any Object comes online. The rest of the game is already screaming off the rails at this point - that being said you will need to trust your GM if you like that idea.
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I have a question as it relates to Polymorph and Object(PoA) and a Homunculus. If you changed the Homunculus into another form that meets the 9 points needed to make it permanent.
Would it still be your linked Homunculus?
What would it retain besides its base construct traits?
If you had crafted the Homunculus with additional Hitdice and abilities before polymorphing it ...what would it retain if any?
i.e. such as crafters eyes or Spell-Like Ability: (By incorporating 10 potions of the same spell in the homunculus’s creation, a crafter can imbue the homunculus with the power to use that spell once per day as a spell-like ability. Price: Total cost of the potions used.) giving it improved dexterity. intelligence or wisdom?
Or voice enhancement?
Very curious about ways PoA can be utilized to make a more effective Homunculi if they would still retain the link as Homunculi.