Cost of barding for tiny animal?

[nennafir]

What is the cost of barding for a tiny animal? Say some equivalent of studded leather armor or the like?

[bitter lily]

I hope you get an answer! I've got a fox in a box, who'd like to know!

[escherblacksmith]

per this http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor#TOC-Armor-for-Unusual-Creat ures

for humanoid, 1/2 the cost 1/10 the weight of normal armor
for non-humanoid, 1x the cost (so, the same as if for med humanoid) 1/10 the weight.

so, for regular leather, 10GP, and 1.5 lbs.

[bitter lily]

escherblacksmith wrote:

per this http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor#TOC-Armor-for-Unusual-Creat ures

for humanoid, 1/2 the cost 1/10 the weight of normal armor
for non-humanoid, 1x the cost (so, the same as if for med humanoid) 1/10 the weight.

so, for regular leather, 10GP, and 1.5 lbs.

Thank you! And, linkified: Armor for Unusual Creatures, and oh! now that I go check, I see it's from Ultimate Equipment. D'oh!

One other note, tiny or smaller creatures get only 1/2 the armor bonus, so +1 armor to AC for their 10 GP Leather.

Now I have images of mosquitoes in studded black leather at biker bars...

[nennafir]

Thanks to escherblacksmith and bitter lily!

[escherblacksmith]

Ah, there you go. hmmmm, swarm armor?

[Firebug]

It's always 750gp.

For that wand of mage armor.

Mage armor on a tiny critter is the same armor bonus as tiny full plate. And no max Dex, or armor check penalty ...

[Cayzle]

The real value of armor and shields for tiny and smaller creatures is as an enhancement bonus carrier. Armor and Shield enhancement bonuses are the cheapest way to boost AC once you get past the base +4 of Mage Armor. Not to mention that armor can carry bennies with Slick and Shadow and other properties.

Note that the penalty for non-proficient wearing of armor is equal to the armor check penalty, and that's zero for lighter armors, such as masterwork studded leather. In essence, you do not need proficiency to use it freely and optimally.

So a +3 tiny mithril chain shirt is better than mage armor spells, and for a tiny biped, costs about 9,500 gp. Not too shabby. Until you can afford that, stick with the Mage Armors.

Nonmagic tiny mithril chain shirt can also trump Mage Armor depending on the level of the cleric friend you got who is willing to cast Magic Vestment.

[Firebug]

13,100 gp you mean. And still worse.

Mithral is a flat price adjustment amount for armor. Not by weight. There is nothing that says it is increased or decreased by size or cost, regardless.

The enhancement bonus also is an armor bonus, which is still halved for tiny critters, your +3 mithral chain shirt is only worth 3 AC, still worse then mage armor. Or you could buy 873 hours of mage armor wand charges.

[Cayzle]

Beg to differ. Armor bonuses are not enhancement bonuses. The former are halved; the latter are not.

[Firebug]

By that argument, you would keep the armor's enhancement bonus for touch attacks because it is not an armor bonus then?

Touch Attacks wrote:

Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

I argue for something similar to what you are but I place the emphasis a little bit differently. Enchanted Armor does not provide an Enhancement bonus to "AC", it provides an Enhancement bonus to the Armor bonus. Much like Barkskin provides an Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor.

Armor for unusual critters makes no distinction between an Armor bonus and an Armor bonus which includes an Enhancement bonus. It simply says "Tiny or smaller* *Divide armor bonus by 2."

[James Risner]

Cayzle wrote:

Beg to differ. Armor bonuses are not enhancement bonuses. The former are halved; the latter are not.

Then you differ. The enchantment bonus adds to the armor bonus which is halved.

[Cayzle]

Also, you would argue that size does not matter for pricing specialty armor?

"Mithral is a flat price adjustment amount for armor."

So a mithral shirt for a human with a permanent Enlarge Person (size large) costs the same as a mithral shirt for a gnome with a permanent Reduce Person (size tiny)? 1100 gp either way? Even for a colossal nonhuman, usually a x32 multiplier?

I argue that the only reasonable interpretation is to apply the standard multipliers. So a tiny humanoid mithral shirt costs 550 gp.

----- ----- ----- -----

Regarding halving enhancement and armor bonuses ...

Case One: Cast Magic Vestment on a tiny fellow wearing only clothes. Does he get the full enhancement bonus granted by the spell?

Case Two: Cast Magic Vestment on a tiny fellow wearing a set of leather armor. Does he get the full enhancement bonus this time?

Case Three: Cast Mage Armor on the tiny fellow, which provides "a +4 armor bonus to AC." Is the armor bonus halved this time?

Case Four: How about the armor bonus bestowed by Bracers of Armor?

IMNSHO, the only logical way to square the circle is to rule that the armor bonus provided by physical armor is halved for the tiny fellow. Enhancement bonuses and armor bonuses provided by spells and magic items replicating spells are not halved.

[Chess Pwn]

enhancement bonuses don't go to AC, they go to increasing the armors armor bonus. meaning +1 fullplate is giving you 10 armor to AC.
SO the question comes down to, is the fullplate still giving 10 and getting cut in half, or is tiny fullplate only having an armor value of 4?

And the price for mithral items works 2 ways.

1 you alter the base price, meaning you take the 100 for chain and multiply by 32 for 3200, and then add the mithral price. Or the way you are doing it.

[Firebug]

Huh, some reason I priced the +3 mithral chain shirt as a chain mail. Should have been 10,100.

[Gauss]

Cayzle, Regarding armor bonuses, the rules disagree with you.

CRB p179 wrote:

Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.

Then, the armor bonus is halved. :)

[James Risner]

Cayzle wrote:

1) Iargue that the only reasonable interpretation is to apply the standard multipliers. So a tiny humanoid mithral shirt costs

2) Case One: Cast Magic Vestment on a tiny fellow wearing only clothes. Does he get the full enhancement bonus granted by the spell?

3) Case Two: Cast Magic Vestment on a tiny fellow wearing a set of leather armor. Does he get the full enhancement bonus this time?

4) Case Three: Cast Mage Armor on the tiny fellow, which provides "a +4 armor bonus to AC." Is the armor bonus halved this time?

5) Case Four: How about the armor bonus bestowed by Bracers of Armor?

1) pending FAQ on mithril prices, as we have both flat and multiplied/divided examples and not definitive info on which is correct.

2 and 3) gets full, resulting armor bonus is halved

4-5) full not amor so not halved