Forced to take a level in another class; what can I do?

[My Self]

Your GM is completely within his/her rights to do that, so long as you and the rest of the table are happy and having fun with it.

Perhaps you ask the GM for a concession - instead of getting a 1st level Bloodline power, perhaps you instead get +1 to your effective monk level, namely for feats, ki, and serpent-fire adept powers? Or replace your 1st level Bloodline power and Sorcerer skill points and HD with UMonk BAB, HD, and skill points? Or being able to use your Bloodline power as part of a flurry? Alternatively, being able to have your effective Sorcerer level and caster level be character level -3 in place of your 1st level Bloodline power would be nice. Since your GM is advancing your character along what appears to be the path you are roleplaying, you might as well meet halfway. I suspect your GM is more than willing to accommodate, given that they gave you a free WIS casting stat replacement. If you explain how multiclass mid-level martial-casters suffer from lacking HD, CL, BAB, or whatnot, you might convince them.

A +2 creature template increases your effective character level and your challenge rating by 2. Pathfinder player characters are supposed to be as powerful as monsters of the same challenge rating, and thus effective character level and challenge rating are the same. The +2 CR template should be equivalent to taking 2 class levels, and will raise your group's average player level accordingly.

So perhaps you suggest one of the following trades:
1st level Bloodline Power -> +1 effective Monk level (but no Monk powers)
1st level Bloodline Power, d6 HD -> +1 BAB, +2 Skills/level, d8 HD
1st level Bloodline Power -> CL = Sorcerer level + 1/2 Monk Level (Same CL as a Paladin of your level)
1st level Bloodline Power -> CL = Player level (Same CL as a Bloodrager of your level)
Nothing -> effective Sorcerer level (not caster level) = Player level, can use Bloodline powers as part of a Flurry of Blows
Sorcerer Level -> Occultist Level, can use Implement Powers as part of a Flurry of Blows
Your GM -> Another GM

[Jader7777]

From a GMs perspective I would never force a player to make suboptimal choices that would ruin the game for them unless they were going to benefit what the player wants to do.

For example I once blinded a player, now being blind is the worst thing ever in Pathfinder if you're not built for it- however the next session the party were up against a horrible Gloom-like creature which had a nasty gaze attack that prevented them from escaping a room that was filling with water, he however was able to enter the room the Gloom was in and open the water sluice so everyone could escape, thus saving the party. Later I gave him Blind Fight feats for free and then much later his sight was restored, but he could always do that cool zen thing where he would close his eyes and fight things in obscuring mist without penalties.

Assume that your GM has a plan and reason for weird things that burrow into your chest without warning.

Also True Strike + Monk = Great stunning fists. Aside from the other suggestions here I'm sure you'll be very potent.

[My Self]

Jader7777 wrote:

Also True Strike + Monk = Great stunning fists. Aside from the other suggestions here I'm sure you'll be very potent.

The biggest problem with Stunning Fist is that your DC is never going to be better than a secondary DC unless you are willing to sacrifice your damage output, feats, and/or cash.

[NoTongue]

Has no one mentioned Use Magic Device

It lets you pretend you have class features to use magic items. If the role was that you where pretending to have spellcasting then take spellcasting then it was never about the role.

[Oceanshieldwolf]

Alternatively the thread might have been titled: "Cool plot device - sorceror class options please".

I've always detested "builds" and planning characters to 20th level, so, to me, an interesting interaction between an eldritch item and a character sounds really flavorful with a lot of options. I'm not seeing this as a "lost level" or a "cursed item". The sorceror level seems like a factor/characteristic of symbiosis. Why retrain it? Embrace it, and find the synergies - you get to avoid some MAD with the Wisdom casting after all.

Sure, the GM could have prrpared you for this, but, alas they did not - your character has had this happen. Now you as the player need to "role" with it.

I get it, people play differently, and they like to plan out the perfect synergy 20 levels in advance. Just seems like entitlement to me, but that is obviously "create new thread bait".

[Jader7777]

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

I get it, people play differently, and they like to plan out the perfect synergy 20 levels in advance. Just seems like entitlement to me, but that is obviously "create new thread bait".

I've seen this in games where players pre-plan all their build and then something about the setting or campaign clearly calls for a different skill set, they choose not to adapt and are punished for such a thing.

"Okay guys! The setting is entirely out in the ocean, with pirate ships and guns."

"Cool I'll bring my necromancy wizard"

"Okay but make sure you put ranks in swim"

"Nah, I'd rather max my Knowlege Religion. It's what makes him the character that he is"

"Okay... just make sure you can breathe underwater"

"Nah I have transmutation as an opposed school"

And here come the bull rushing water elementals...

[Lady-J]

Jader7777 wrote:

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

I get it, people play differently, and they like to plan out the perfect synergy 20 levels in advance. Just seems like entitlement to me, but that is obviously "create new thread bait".

I've seen this in games where players pre-plan all their build and then something about the setting or campaign clearly calls for a different skill set, they choose not to adapt and are punished for such a thing.

"Okay guys! The setting is entirely out in the ocean, with pirate ships and guns."

"Cool I'll bring my necromancy wizard"

"Okay but make sure you put ranks in swim"

"Nah, I'd rather max my Knowlege Religion. It's what makes him the character that he is"

"Okay... just make sure you can breathe underwater"

"Nah I have transmutation as an opposed school"

And here come the bull rushing water elementals...

adapting to a situation and a gm saying you have to do things this way because i said so are not the same thing

[Jader7777]

Do you know what trails lay ahead? Do you think this is the same as the GM forcing you to take a level in the npc class Expert with all your skill points devoted to Profession: Basket weaving but not including some sort of wicker dragon lair?

[KujakuDM]

Do you want a boring world filled with nothing but fantasy tropes or a world with danger and unexpected changes.

Its a game. A lot of you people need to relax.

[Rory]

Rune Lightmage wrote:

The gm then informed me that I was probably about to be very unhappy and that my next level gained had to be in the sorcerer class and that I could choose between these bloodlines: Psychic, Stormborn, and Starsoul. I am allowed to use my wisdom modifier for spellcasting and (I believe) class features that normally require charisma.

I already have Eldritch Heritage with the Stormborn bloodline selected from that.

I'd roll with it for a short while. Don't make judgments yet. It could be a great character development story for your character in the making.

Find out what this thing does and if it really is a neat enough thing to merit keeping. It is worth noting that the GM is already showing major benefits by allowing your wisdom to be used for casting.

However, express now the interest to the GM to research to reverse the effects. This is a perfectly natural roleplaying instinct, even if you later change your mind. Be sure to also mention outside of character that any actual fix implementation is a decision that you want to make later.

Remember, the cost to "fix" the situation should at most 7000gp in diamonds and finding someone to cast a Raise Dead and two Restorations. That's not the end of the world. And, this might be construed as a party type detriment that the party helps fix. That's a pretty minor speed bump actually for a level 8 party. Just don't do it immediately, just in case.

If you did decide to keep the effect, you could potentially talk to the GM to retrain the Eldritch Heritage feats and requirements. That could deliver a pretty nice feat bonanza.

[Lady-J]

Jader7777 wrote:

Do you know what trails lay ahead? Do you think this is the same as the GM forcing you to take a level in the npc class Expert with all your skill points devoted to Profession: Basket weaving but not including some sort of wicker dragon lair?

which part the Do you know what trails lay ahead or the gm forcing a monk to take a level in sorc if the former no they are different, if the latter yes it would essentially be the same thing

[zza ni]

so..you got a level as a sorcerer?
lets make a count shell we?

1: spells (mage armor stack with anything monk have, frostbite can be fun,true strike infernal healing etc)

2: take that archetype every1 else keep talking about and for a move action when the fight start you can get +2 to hit and damage for one minute

and you can now try out some interesting options such as dragon disciple prestige class. or taking extra traits (gain 2 traits) > a random trait and magical knack (increase sorcerer caster level by 2)>craft wonderius items > all the gear you need at half price. lets face it all the gear a monk need is in that section and in rings (for the ki saving rings)

[Inlaa]

Yeah, I think this topic has been talked to death over already.

Just talk to your GM, present him a few ideas (Eldritch Heritage feat? Sorcerer template with some sort of cost), ask if you can use an Archetype (Eldritch Scrapper?), and ask him if there's a greater goal he has in mind for what he's doing.

It's not the end of the world. Your build isn't sacrosanct, though you should try to as much as possible get something out of this that you'll enjoy before continuing down the build you were going to. I think you'll find Eldritch Adversary + Dedicated Adversary + no UMD for sorc/wizard scrolls + some utility spells like True Strike will actually NOT be a terrible dip at all.

[Rune Lightmage]

Thanks everyone. I showed the gm the sorcerer creature template and he said it's basically what he was looking for but didn't know existed (and neither did I. I'll have the template and use the quick build rules.

What is this Eldritch Adversary feat? I've seen it mentioned a couple of times but cannot find it.

[Nitro~Nina]

I'm glad you got it sorted out!

Sorry this thread got so bogged down with GM philosophy, however. I didn't intend to contribute to that as much as I did.

[Inlaa]

Rune Lightmage wrote:

Thanks everyone. I showed the gm the sorcerer creature template and he said it's basically what he was looking for but didn't know existed (and neither did I. I'll have the template and use the quick build rules.

What is this Eldritch Adversary feat? I've seen it mentioned a couple of times but cannot find it.

Actually, it's called Dedicated Adversary. Click here.

It's basically the best feat for Brawlers and Eldritch Scrappers ever.