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So... been reading the healer's handbook to see if there was anything interesting, and for the most part - it looks like everything interesting is going to get banned in PFS and everyone else seems so boring at first glance... but then I saw the Alchemist Archetype...
"Many (Archetype Name) are also chirurgeons" - And that is when I realized.... This archetype was literally designed to be taken with Chirurgeon. Like 100%, this new Archetype is screaming that its just an addition to the Chirurgeon archetype. Its actually kind of funny. Its so much designed to be taken with the other archetype, it even says "or if he is also a chirurgeon".
Has this ever happened before? Where one archetype was so completely designed around another that it was quoted, not once, but twice within the archetype is designed to be taken with another archetype?
One side of me says this feels lazy, while he other side is just laughing so hard it doesn't really care.
Hah. I haven't seen the Healer's Handbook. What's the stuff that's too good for PFS?
Nothing overpowered. Just a LOT of brew potion archetypes and abilities. And the best interesting feats (aka: -4 to saves when you heal them) is flavored as evil. And we all know how evil is treated in PFS (INSTANT BAN!!!)
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off hand, the musketeer cavailer archetype takes away your mount, but leaves you with a bunch of abilities that require one, which are removed by the luring cavalier. So that seems like almost an archetype of an archetype
Not quite the same, but the Winter Witch prc requires the Winter Witch archetype.
Some archetypes certainly work together well, but I don't remember any others being so explicit.
I think some of the Vigilante archetypes are designed specifically not to overlap with other Vigilante archetypes (so you can be a Warlock Wildsoul, or a Mounted Fury Zealot, if you wanted). This feels deliberate since stacking archetypes like this trade away pretty much all of your vigilante talents.
So it's not unprecedented for archetypes to be intentionally stackable with other archetypes.
Has this ever happened before? Where one archetype was so completely designed around another that it was quoted, not once, but twice within the archetype is designed to be taken with another archetype?
Bard [busker and juggler]. "Many buskers are also jugglers".
Has this ever happened before? Where one archetype was so completely designed around another that it was quoted, not once, but twice within the archetype is designed to be taken with another archetype?
We have a prestige class that requires a specific archetype to qualify.
I don't think it's lazy- quite the opposite. Designing the archetype to combine with the other fixed some issues with both. The old archetype could hand out healing, but everybody was required to use their own actions, making it a very weak emergency healer. Good luck having anybody drink their own Breath of Life extract. The new archetype fixed that, but doesn't include Breath of Life, which some consider critical for a proper healer. Rather than make an improved version of the old archetype, they allowed meshing. Now if someone wants a healing Alchemist, they're guaranteed to have an option that doesn't replace any particular class feature. I'd love to see more archetype designs like that.
I'd love to see more archetype designs like that.
I would too, though I would prefer it to be a deliberate thought out design choice made in advance; rather than an after the fact patch to fix something that should have been more effective in the first place.
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Has this ever happened before? Where one archetype was so completely designed around another that it was quoted, not once, but twice within the archetype is designed to be taken with another archetype?Bard [busker and juggler]. "Many buskers are also jugglers".
Sadly enough, they don't actually stack. Easy to miss, but the Juggler replaces Soothing Performance, which Buskers don't even have a chance of having.
It's pretty obvious. At this point so many archetypes have been created that ideas are being run out of what archetypes to make. So, now we are getting archetypes built around complementing existing archetypes. Give it another year, and soon we will see archetypes of archetypes, such as the Ripper, which trades the Vivisectionist's Cruel Anatomist and Torturous Transformation for sweet, sweet barbarian rage. Because nothing will be complete until Alchemist becomes the best Martial in existence!
Samurai stackable temporary hitpoint would be funny. At level 11 and a human, you can theoretically get 77 temporary hit points when you use your Resolve.
I must admit, creating the living version Chumbawumba's Tubthumping would be SO entertaining...
It's pretty obvious. At this point so many archetypes have been created that ideas are being run out of what archetypes to make. So, now we are getting archetypes built around complementing existing archetypes. Give it another year, and soon we will see archetypes of archetypes, such as the Ripper, which trades the Vivisectionist's Cruel Anatomist and Torturous Transformation for sweet, sweet barbarian rage. Because nothing will be complete until Alchemist becomes the best Martial in existence!
Nah. This was the Healer's Handbook, which could be reasonably expected to address prominent arcane/alchemical healing classes. Alchemist already has an archetype dedicated to healing, so it got a complementary archetype. If they were out of new ideas, the other Alchemist archetype wouldn't have been so cool.
a -4 after being healed seems legit. how is that evil? "whoa budy don't sit up yet. i had to hit you with a horse tranc, so i could clean out that gut wound before feeding you a heal potion." you don't want dumb dumb there getting up and charging into another fight before his guts are completely healed.
I think the idea they had in mind was more "I healed you, if you wouldn't just do something for me to fulfill your debt..." [Cast Suggestion/Charm Person]
This archetype was literally designed to be taken with Chirurgeon.
I'm guessing you didn't also notice that both the Wasteland Blightbreaker and Sacrament Alchemist stack with Chirurgeon and each other simultaneously?
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This archetype was literally designed to be taken with Chirurgeon.I'm guessing you didn't also notice that both the Wasteland Blightbreaker and Sacrament Alchemist stack with Chirurgeon and each other simultaneously?
The point here is that the text itself calls out Chirurgeon as a possible stack.
Honestly I like that they're intended to stack, but you don't have to do that either. You can just as easily go Vivisectionist/Chirurgeon, if you like creating unholy abominations as a hobby.