I have a few questions regarding Druidic Herbalism from the Healer's Handbook
Do the "free" concoctions granted by Druidic Herbalism mean I don't have to cast the spell to make the concoction either? Or do I still have to prepare the spell I want to make a concoction of, and cast it as part of the concoction creation (as with Brew Potion), but I just don't pay any gold?
At 7th level, Druidic Herbalism lets you create what are effectively "extracts". Do these special concoctions count against your Wis/day free concoctions? If they don't, then is it intended that you can't make these "extracts" of spells of 3rd level or below? As written, it looks like it's sometimes cheaper to make higher level concoctions (which only require spell slots) than lower level ones (which require spell slots and gold).
Can you make these extract-like concoctions with spells higher than 6th level? Or are you limited in the same way an alchemist would be?
All in all, this is a cool option, I'm just having trouble figuring out some of the special cases.
Of course. Here's all the relevant rules text.
A druid who chooses to learn druidic herbalism can use combinations of nuts, berries, dried herbs, and other natural ingredients along with appropriate containers to create herbal concoctions or magic consumables that function like potions. This acts like the Brew Potion feat, but only for spells on the druid spell list. Their creation time, caster level, spell duplication capabilities, and all other variables and properties are identical to those of potions created using Brew Potion.
A druid can create a number of free herbal concoctions per day equal to her Wisdom modifier. Additional concoctions cost the same as creating an equivalent potion using Brew Potion.
Additionally, at 7th level, a druid can create any herbal concoction in 1 minute. She can also create a special concoction of any spell higher than 3rd level that she can cast, but to do so, she must expend a spell slot of the same level. These special concoctions do not cost her anything to create and function like extracts created by an alchemist with the infusion discovery.
I've omitted some things, but they're unrelated to my questions.
I believe you'd need the spells and use them still for your no cost concoctions.
Your "extracts" aren't capped at any spell level.
I think I heard that there are rules making them harder to sell or selling for less.
Contributor
|
I think I heard that there are rules making them harder to sell or selling for less.
"Rules" is a rather... strong term for what it has.
Druids can sell their herbal concoctions just as if they were potions (though NPCs unfamiliar with druidic herbalism may need some convincing before purchasing these wares).
This immediately tripped my problem-senses the moment I saw it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
so, druids choice at lv1 is, animal companion, extra spell slots, or free money.
yeah, herbalism isn't getting into PFS as is. Maybe if they felt like changing it to make something that was PFS legal, like no selling them and only able to make your free ones, and they stop working when you prepare new spells.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm, from the cited part I would think that the "free concoction" should be errated to "a druid can have as many free concoctions active as his wisdom, what he produce above that will cost and work as a potion created with brew potion". That would make selling the free potions problematic, as you will not be sure if they will ever be used.
Sadly, as it is a soft bound probably we will never see an errata. The idea is interesting, but problematic.
The concoctions of level 4+ spells have the same limit of alchemist extracts, so they cost a spell slot as long as they exit. So those aren't a big problem.
Well, Fencing Grace got a huge nerf, so maybe Druidic Herbalism will be reprinted in "Ultimate Nature" or something like that.
Considering the ability also allows faking one spell as another, I'll probably just make them unsellable in most circumstances. Stocking up on low-level spells as potions is fine, especially with the extra action economy penalty of drawing the potion. They're herbal concoctions rather than regular potions, so ruling out Accelerated Drinker. If somebody wants to worship Urgathoa for the nerfed Potion Glutton, that's a reasonable investment for quick buffs.
so, druids choice at lv1 is, animal companion, extra spell slots, or free money.
yeah, herbalism isn't getting into PFS as is. Maybe if they felt like changing it to make something that was PFS legal, like no selling them and only able to make your free ones, and they stop working when you prepare new spells.
They function like extracts, so they go poof the next day.
They function like extracts, so they go poof the next day.so, druids choice at lv1 is, animal companion, extra spell slots, or free money.
yeah, herbalism isn't getting into PFS as is. Maybe if they felt like changing it to make something that was PFS legal, like no selling them and only able to make your free ones, and they stop working when you prepare new spells.
Check the text again. It's only the special concoctions (4th level spells and up) that count. They're infused extracts, so they don't go poof the next day, either- they continue taking up a spell slot until used.
They function like extracts, so they go poof the next day.so, druids choice at lv1 is, animal companion, extra spell slots, or free money.
yeah, herbalism isn't getting into PFS as is. Maybe if they felt like changing it to make something that was PFS legal, like no selling them and only able to make your free ones, and they stop working when you prepare new spells.
Extracts do. Infusions don't, IIRC.
|
Their creation time, caster level, spell duplication capabilities, and all other variables and properties are identical to those of potions created using Brew Potion.
Druids are still limited by the creation time of concoctions. Which take 1 day per 1000gp of the base price. It's still doubling your money-making abilities, which is great, but not insane.
PFS has dealt with crafting classes before. I'm guessing the clarification will be fairly straightforward. Something like limit the free potions at the start of the scenario, and allow purchase of druid potions for half-price.
Additionally, at 7th level, a druid can create any herbal concoction in 1 minute.
The crafting time limitation is no help, unfortunately.
And they can make a number per day for free, so there's no gp cost either.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
so for PFs, you get a mission briefing, you get sent by boat for a week, you show up at your destination with 25 2d8+7 potions of cure moderate?
a
so for PFs, you get a mission briefing, you get sent by boat for a week, you show up at your destination with 25 2d8+7 potions of cure moderate?
a
The Druid can do way better. Even at low level:
1) low level barkskin is a nice buff potion.2) endure elements if traveling in bad weather (hot/cold place)
3) Ant Hauls for carrying gear
4) air bubbles for water travel.
5) If oils can be made (since oils are potions for objects)
a) shillelaghs for all
b) Feather steps for all
c) Everyone passes without trace (better as scroll though)
6) Every has +4 to all stats before big battles
7) Resist any element
8) Everyone climbs the ceiling
|
|
Check the text again. It's only the special concoctions (4th level spells and up) that count. They're infused extracts, so they don't go poof the next day, either- they continue taking up a spell slot until used.They function like extracts (infusions, actually), so they go poof the next day.so, druids choice at lv1 is, animal companion, extra spell slots, or free money.
yeah, herbalism isn't getting into PFS as is. Maybe if they felt like changing it to make something that was PFS legal, like no selling them and only able to make your free ones, and they stop working when you prepare new spells.
Actually that is the big question about infusions that hasn't jet been answered.
Some read the description as "the infusion are good as long as they exist", others as "they still are extracts, so they last only 24 hours". Both reading of the text of the rule are acceptable.|
|
so for PFs, you get a mission briefing, you get sent by boat for a week, you show up at your destination with 25 2d8+7 potions of cure moderate?
a
The Druid can do way better. Even at low level:
1) low level barkskin is a nice buff potion.
2) endure elements if traveling in bad weather (hot/cold place)
3) Ant Hauls for carrying gear
4) air bubbles for water travel.
5) If oils can be made (since oils are potions for objects)
a) shillelaghs for all
b) Feather steps for all
c) Everyone passes without trace (better as scroll though)
6) Every has +4 to all stats before big battles
7) Resist any element
8) Everyone climbs the ceiling
Don't forget lesser restoration. it cure fatigue. and 2 potions remove exhaustion, plus it cure damage to your characteristics, so it is great if someone has been poisoned. And slow poison too.
At level 7+ you can make at least 5 potions every day in as many minutes at no cost. Decidedly powerful. You trade away a powerful animal companion, but depending on your party set up that can be a good trade.
Seems balanced. ^_^
against a kitty of pouncy death, probably.
Against other forms of out of combat healing using a characters resources.. not so much.It also shuts off completely before 7th level if you (like you usually do) have a mission briefing the same day as the scenario.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh no, an option from the Healer's hand book that makes potions not a waste of time and money. Whatever shall we do?
While the discussion of whether or not this option is balanced is certainly interesting, it doesn't come any closer to answering my question. Does anyone have any input on that?
I believe you'd need the spells and use them still for your no cost concoctions.
Your "extracts" aren't capped at any spell level.
|
|
I have a few questions regarding Druidic Herbalism from the Healer's Handbook
Do the "free" concoctions granted by Druidic Herbalism mean I don't have to cast the spell to make the concoction either? Or do I still have to prepare the spell I want to make a concoction of, and cast it as part of the concoction creation (as with Brew Potion), but I just don't pay any gold?
At 7th level, Druidic Herbalism lets you create what are effectively "extracts". Do these special concoctions count against your Wis/day free concoctions? If they don't, then is it intended that you can't make these "extracts" of spells of 3rd level or below? As written, it looks like it's sometimes cheaper to make higher level concoctions (which only require spell slots) than lower level ones (which require spell slots and gold).
Can you make these extract-like concoctions with spells higher than 6th level? Or are you limited in the same way an alchemist would be?
All in all, this is a cool option, I'm just having trouble figuring out some of the special cases.
The concoctions of level 4+ work as infusion. So you have to memorize the spell and spend it to make it. and it stay spent until someone drink the concoction.
|
|
Do the "free" concoctions granted by Druidic Herbalism mean I don't have to cast the spell to make the concoction either? Or do I still have to prepare the spell I want to make a concoction of, and cast it as part of the concoction creation (as with Brew Potion), but I just don't pay any gold?
Seems to be the latter to me. It says it functions as Brew Potion, so that would include having to cast the spell. The 'free' refers only to GP cost.
At 7th level, Druidic Herbalism lets you create what are effectively "extracts". Do these special concoctions count against your Wis/day free concoctions?
I'd say yes. Otherwise, you could create Wis/day low level concoctions and unlimited high level concoctions. Not logical.
Can you make these extract-like concoctions with spells higher than 6th level? Or are you limited in the same way an alchemist would be?
"any spell higher than 3rd level that she can cast"
So no 6th level limit.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Theoretically, any spellcaster could set up a stand to sell 'spellcasting services' and similarly destroy the character wealth standards.
That this option puts the same mechanism in to a tangible form doesn't really change the dynamics. Most games probably just gloss over this issue and tell players, 'do not do that'. Ergo, I'd suggest the same for any druidic herbalism get rich quick scheme. Or infinite wealth via 'shrink item' shipping. Or any of a thousand other ways that magic could logically make ridiculous amounts of money that simply aren't accounted for.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If your druid becomes a Big Pharma billionaire, rolling around on a pile of precious metal ripped from the earth's womb, shenanigans. Shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans.
Shenanigans.
Eh, they trade out a spell of every level and two powers for it. Seems reasonable enough as a trade for being able to stockpile low-level buffs by using slots on previous days.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If your druid becomes a Big Pharma billionaire, rolling around on a pile of precious metal ripped from the earth's womb, shenanigans. Shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans.
Shenanigans.
Who actually keeps gold? They'll be rolling around in a pile of WBL-inappropriate Big 6 items if anything.
Who actually keeps gold? They'll be rolling around in a pile of WBL-inappropriate Big 6 items if anything.I've said it before and I'll say it again. If your druid becomes a Big Pharma billionaire, rolling around on a pile of precious metal ripped from the earth's womb, shenanigans. Shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans.
Shenanigans.
I still say, unless it's a barter economy, shenanigans. And even if it's a barter economy, you're just going to encourage industry and the continued depredations of homo economius, possibly even causing nascent capitalism to develop centuries early, while you strip the forests and fields of berries and leaves in an endless, unslakeable lust for stuff.
Shenanigans.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
O. M. Groetus.
That's what happened to Golarion in Starfinder! It was whittled down to a tiny planetoid nub by greedy druids making potions!
YOU USED IT UP! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL YOU USED IT UP!!!
*pounds ground weeping*
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
druid worships and reveres nature. Gold is from nature. Thus a druid can worship and revere money!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
druid worships and reveres nature. Gold is from nature. Thus a druid can worship and revere money!
I like the cut of this guy's jib.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
druid worships and reveres nature. Gold is from nature. Thus a druid can worship and revere money!
"I have to collect all the gold, so I can put it back where it belongs... yeah... that's the ticket..."
Nothing says all druids need nature to be untouched. It's the purpose of the planet's resources to be used. plants purpose is to feed rabbits. Rabbits to feed birds. Birds to feed humans.
Like we have wasteland druids and stuff where the druids destroy all living things around them. Because they like the destruction part of nature.
Shenanigans.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
druid worships and reveres nature. Gold is from nature. Thus a druid can worship and revere money!"I have to collect all the gold, so I can put it back where it belongs... yeah... that's the ticket..."
Thats one of the rationales for dragons hoarding gold in their lairs.
As far as all the questions about PFS go, doesn't PFS ban crafting anyway? Seems like that would make it a moot issue.
|
Eh, they trade out a spell of every level and two powers for it. Seems reasonable enough as a trade for being able to stockpile low-level buffs by using slots on previous days.
Depends how much downtime you get.
If you're having about as many downtime days as adventure days (and I've been in a campaign like that) it's your Wis mod in extra level 1-3 spell slots. At low levels that's just plain better than the domain, and even at higher levels there's a lot of value in the flexibility to make whichever herbal concoctions you want instead of having to take the specific domain spell. Plus you can hand them off to other people, and the level 7 ability to make infusions lets you share personal-range spells like Elemental Body. Finally, it includes an extra ability which OP has omitted to make your concoctions look like some other magical effect, which has niche uses.
If you're getting significantly more downtime than adventuring time (Kingmaker?) and your GM lets you make as many concoctions as you're actually allowed to in that time, I do think it could easily get overpowered.
Yeah, it seems like the best way to solve the two big issues people have with this feat are to make the concoctions unsellable and limit how much stockpiling can be done.