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Just finished playing at low tier and we had little trouble (admittedly we got a lucky crit against the construct).
GM was running cold (not his fault, got swapped in at the last second) so some things may have been a little wrong
We went into the final battle fully buffed and prepared. Given that we were under no time constraints we memorized spells explicitly for the creature. We knew that we were fighting a Juggernaught. Didn't know exactly what that meant except from the name but we just assumed DR or hardness, trample, etc.
So, we buffed up out of the whazo the two fighter sorts and the rest of us hung way back. Fighters were flying, had Freedom of Movement up, hasted, bulls strength, bears endurance, barkskin, etc.
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Just played this last night. Something I really don't like. I keep having GM's miss that the party starts off with 10 favor points. So we had to deal with the volcano and not be saved by the lord of the mountain when we should have.
Also very unclear that we were supposed to take the gems from the picture. Most of the table didn't want to mess with it to not get anyone angry at us, and to preserve the history that was there. So maybe some hints like, "everything in there is going to be destroyed anyways if you succeed so feel free to take anything you find."
The scenario ended just over 3 hours. Used diplomacy through everything so the only fight was the juggernaut. We played low tier and killed the juggernaut before it acted. Had buffs and haste up, then with a haste full attack from a lv8 swashbuckler and from a lv9 bloodrager the juggernaut went down before acting. Which was also bad because that didn't leave enough time of it alive to destroy the helmet, so even though we wanted to and did end up destroying it via other means, we lost out on both boons because we didn't give it to the society and didn't destroy it before volcano erupted.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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+20+1d6 knowledge and +30 diplomacy (different characters) made the first part of this trivially easy. The (low will save) bard did put on the helmet. We were able to suppress the compulsion, but not the curse. So we asked everyone we met if they could help us get it off him.
OMotM: "I can help. (GM starts looking through summoned monster lists) Would he prefer to be trampled by... (long list of deaths by summoned monster follows.)"
Us: But then he would be dead!
OMotM: Yes, but then you could take the helmet off. I suppose you could just stick his head under the tread of the colossus...
Us: Don't you have any other way to get it off him?
OMotM: Hmmm.. (GM starts looking through OMotM stat block.)
GM: Oh shit, he has true ressurection...
OMotM: Well I suppose I could bring him back again after he was trampled.
So after some in character arguement, some bluff checks (No really, this won't hurt a bit!) and an out of character negotiation, The bard was killed then True Resurrected. (A small price to pay on the part of the OMotM to rid his mountain of an unbearable evil. )
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I'm running this one tomorrow, and I had a couple questions. So if a PC is DOMINATED by the helmet to go find it, then do they get a second check to not put it on? Shouldn't it just be another command of the dominate effect? I mean, it shouldn't really be 'against anyones nature' to put on an old, pitted helmet, so there shouldn't be a second save involved, right.
Like, when I played it, that was one of two parts of the scenario that we didn't understand. This was the first. So first you have to fail a check to even know it's there. Then you have to succeed a check to not put it on (or else have a remove curse prepped?)
Our party didn't even find it. We had a my chained (grandfathered) summoner, an NPC Kyra, a witch, and someone else (figher I think). We all made our saves and walked right past it. Didn't even know it was there.
The other part is the Juggernaut . . . How . . . I mean, our upper-level party nearly died (our Kyra did die) and that was with us buffed to the nines with all the witch's spells as well as my summoner (haste, communal stoneskin, communal resist energy, Bull's strength, barkskin.) How is a lower-level party supposed to destroy the helmet AND kill the CR 11 Monster AND deal with the collapsing cavern?
In fact, Kyra would have been down in the first round if it weren't for communal Stoneskin.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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The juggernaut is a puzzle monster. It's got very limited reach so if the entire party is flying you can take it out fairly safely (assuming you don't get buried by the earthquake; gotta love Freedom of Movement). You do get advance warning of just about everything that could happen, if you're listening to it.
But for someone playing a melee character, you feel fairly useless during this adventure because the first two fights are avoidable and the last fight should be strictly ranged.
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My players literally said, "Wait, if we pull out the pick, it'll come to life and attack us?"
"Yeah."
"And it's under this slag?"
"Yeah."
"I use my adamantine hammer to chop away the slag. Then I systematically smash pieces off and throw them in the magma flow."
I flip back and forth in the scenario.
"Well guys, I think you're done. When you pull the pick, the mountain reacts to the elemental energy and starts to erupt. You hear a voice that echoes throughout the cavern. 'I can calm the mountain, but only briefly.'
"We GTFO."
Zero combats. 3 hours.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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My players literally said, "Wait, if we pull out the pick, it'll come to life and attack us?"
"Yeah."
"And it's under this slag?"
"Yeah."
"I use my adamantine hammer to chop away the slag. Then I systematically smash pieces off and throw them in the magma flow."
I flip back and forth in the scenario.
"Well guys, I think you're done. When you pull the pick, the mountain reacts to the elemental energy and starts to erupt. You hear a voice that echoes throughout the cavern. 'I can calm the mountain, but only briefly.'
"We GTFO."
Zero combats. 3 hours.
.....
personally, I would have let him wake up once the players actually deal damage to the Juggernaut, he is strong enough to remove the pick. Or have the slag crack.
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I also played low tier at PaizoCon UK, albeit at a different table than Vincent.
The Juggernaut is horrific at low tier. It is possible for a party to avoid the trample with positioning and the right magic, but we weren't expecting such an overwhelming attack so mostly grouped up around the slag heap. The thing outright killed two PCs with its trample, its one and only action during the encounter. Having had a look at its statblock after the game, I certainly find it very odd that the only difference between the high and low tier is around 30hp. Nobody at our table was passing a DC30 reflex save except on a natural 20, and the trample damage is clearly enough to take many low tier PCs from full hp to outright dead.
This is a pretty good scenario otherwise. Nice story, opportunity for roleplay, a bit of a puzzle, able to advance through either social or combat. I did enjoy it. But that Juggernaut...
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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At low tier, the juggernaut really isn't a monster, it's a special effect. Beating it is a puzzle ("how can we fly around and kill it at range while it melts in the lava") and not a fight.
It's more like a computer game with a boss that has to be fought entirely differently from regular monsters.
The problem is that it's the only non-avoidable fight in the scenario, and we've all been conditioned that diplomizing your way through fights is the high road (better boons, less danger/resources). When I played the scenario with my melee Slayer I enjoyed the story and scenery, but I was pretty much just a spectator.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South
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I have to say that this fight is quite a simple check: Do you have 10 HP per level (any character with 70 HP will survive the trample) and is the group able to do 120ish dmg to a not very tanky enemy.
The main Problem is that the enemy is the same in both tiers, the hightier version is far too weak, while the low tier version would work better if it lost about 10 dmg.
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It also turns into a test of preparation. You have probably heard about what you're up against--what do you do about it? How do you plan for it?
When I GMed this in high subtier, a high-level sorcerer basically had the entire party flying and airborne prior to interfering with it. You can't necessarily do that with the same effectiveness in low subtier but you should be able to plan to get the squishiest people out of the way and avoid the worst of those one-hit kills. The biggest problems could come from the environment and some bad saves; or for parties without the high-HP character in them, it could come from just having someone squishy survive the first encounter with the enemy.
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When I GMed this in high subtier, a high-level sorcerer basically had the entire party flying and airborne prior to interfering with it.
My party took it a step further than that. We had a kineticist who specializes in moving rock around who reshaped the entire room so that the juggernaut had to spend its first round after waking up digging its way out before it could attack. My cleric tossed up tons of buffs, including round per level stuff like Prayer and Blessing of Fervor, right before we woke it. In the end, it just didn't survive long enough to even try attacking anyone.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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So it's a puzzle encounter. If you think it's a fight encounter someone is liable to die; if you treat it as a puzzle it's possible the monster won't be able to hurt anyone at all.
I'm fine with puzzle encounters. When there's also other types of encounters, preferably a few straight up fights and some talky ones.
But in this case the entire scenario has only fights that are better/cheaper to talk your way through than to fight through.
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I have a few quasi-questions since I am running this scenario in 2 days.
a) Scenario mentions that Singe initiates combat with "boiling blood" spell, but Singe has no such spell on his spell list. It's either replaced or missing.
b) Respect Score has weak effect on gameplay to be honest. It's insufficiently clarified in the boxed bar. The only negative side-effect of being "rude" after successfully passing a diplomatic encounter with Old Man Mountain seems to be that he won't rescue PCs from the volcano at end. It seems rather weak to me from a protective kami spirit. :/
Adam
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Jasper
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My players literally said, "Wait, if we pull out the pick, it'll come to life and attack us?"
"Yeah."
"And it's under this slag?"
"Yeah.""I use my adamantine hammer to chop away the slag. Then I systematically smash pieces off and throw them in the magma flow."
I flip back and forth in the scenario.
"Well guys, I think you're done. When you pull the pick, the mountain reacts to the elemental energy and starts to erupt. You hear a voice that echoes throughout the cavern. 'I can calm the mountain, but only briefly.'
"We GTFO."
Zero combats. 3 hours.
My players had the exact same tool and strategy. I warned them ahead of time that there was going to be one encounter that they wouldn't be able to diplomancy out of for the scenario, but they thought it hilarious to find another way to completely avoid combat. That is what they enjoy, so I'm going to reward being clever.
