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So, as usual, I've gotten an idea - which is never a good thing, anyway - for a build centered on using a hand cannon (similar to Momo or Ursula of the Breath of Fire series). Of course the main problem here is that these weapons in PF have a penalty to attack rolls, knock you prone if they aren't mounted/you aren't supported, and take a full-round action to reload. I can't do much about the attack roll penalty, but I can handle the other problems. I will note that none of this is PFS legal (considering culverins and double hackbuts themselves aren't PFS legal, as far as I'm aware) but otherwise I'm doing my best to stick to non-3pp content and not consider house rules with the build.
Firstly, I'd need at least 3 levels of Musket Master (Gunslinger). Musket Master allows me to drop the action to reload from full-round to standard (by treating my 2H firearms as 1H for the purpose of reloading). From there, Rapid Reload drops it to a move action, and using alchemical cartridges drops it to free, allowing me to make full-attacks with my double hackbut.
Next I need to deal with getting knocked prone. This means 1 level of Master of Many Styles (Monk) with Monkey Style. This allows me to stand as a swift action without provoking and removes the AC penalty for being prone. I can still fire firearms while prone, and as I understand it dropping prone is a free action, so this means I should be able to quick-stand after firing, or just drop to the ground if there's some way an enemy can do something to me while I'm prone. I could take Unarmed Fighter instead, since both are functionally identical for a 1 level dip, but the Unchained monk works with Master of Many Styles and has full BAB progression, meaning the only difference between a 1 level dip here and in Unarmed Fighter is that this dip gives me an extra +2 Ref save.
From here, though, I have a number of options:
- I could continue to build levels as a Musket Master. This allows me to pick up Dex to damage and makes repeated misfires a little less risky. I could combine this with Siege Gunner to make my culverin hit a larger area, but I'm losing two bonus feats for feats that are effectively useless for this build.
- Trench Fighter is another option for Dex to damage, and is fairly easy for me to multi-archetype with other fighter archetypes since it only replaces Armor Training.
- If I take Weapon Master (Fighter), I get to reroll those misfires a few times per day due to Reliable Strike.
- Two-Handed Fighter is far from ideal, but interestingly doesn't mention the weapon needing to be melee for some of its abilities, allowing me to add 2x Str to my weapon's damage with Overhead Chop despite it being a firearm.
- Baseline ranger with the Archery, Crossbow, or Faithul (Erastil) combat style picks up several useful feats, as well as some magic to aid him.
- Skirmisher (ranger) doesn't have magic, but does get access to some interesting tricks.
- Sniper/Stygian Slayer (stalker) gets sneak attack, invisibility, and easier use of spell completion items, as well as studied target.
Honestly, it's a bit of a tie for me between Trench Fighter, baseline ranger, or Sniper/Stygian Slayer. I'm leaning Trench Fighter for the advanced weapon training options and bonus feats, though.
As for race, I'm looking at either a human or a tiefling. Human is pretty obvious: bonus feat. For the tiefling, it'd be for the oversized limbs variant ability, which would allow me to use a Large double hackbut for a devastating 6d6 damage or a Large culverin for 3d8.
So, for the build.
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 1
BAB: +1
F/R/W: +2/+2/+0
Grit
Gunsmith
Deeds: Deadeye, Quick Clear, Steady Aim
Feat: Rapid Reload (musket)
Feat: Gunsmithing
Feat: Point-Blank Shot
Feat: Rapid Reload (double hackbut)
--2nd--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 2
BAB: +2
F/R/W: +3/+3/+0
Nimble +1
--3rd--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3
BAB: +3
F/R/W: +3/+3/+1
Deeds: Fast Musket, Gunslinger's Initiative, Pistol Whip
Feat: Precise Shot
As noted above, these first three levels are to allow me to get a faster reload time on my weapon. By not combining with Siege Gunner, I can focus on single-target damage.
--4th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1
BAB: +4
F/R/W: +5/+5/+1
Fuse Style
Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
Feat: Stunning Fist
Feat: Monkey Style
This is only here for Monkey Style. Otherwise there'd be far too many prerequisites to make it worthwhile.
--5th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 1
BAB: +5
F/R/W: +7/+5/+1
Feat: Rapid Reload (culverin)
Feat: Quick Draw
Ultimately, if I'm going with a double hackbut, I think the bonus feats from the fighter class will give me the most bang for my buck, so to speak.
--6th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 2
BAB: +6
F/R/W: +8/+5/+1
Bravery +1
Feat: Vital Strike
Vital Strike means that Rapid Reload isn't 100% necessary for this build, but having free reloads is still very nice; otherwise whenever I make a Vital Strike I would need to choose between moving and reloading. Vital Strike's also a bit better since this means I only have one chance per attack routine to misfire rather than four. It does sacrifice some damage though, since Vital Strike's extra damage isn't multiplied on crit, and I'm losing an attack by not taking Rapid Shot, but the damage is more reliable.
--7th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 3
BAB: +7
F/R/W: +8/+6/+2
Trench Warfare (double hackbut)
Feat: Weapon Focus (double hackbut)
--8th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 4
BAB: +8
F/R/W: +9/+6/+2
Feat: Deadly Aim
--9th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 5
BAB: +9
F/R/W: +9/+6/+2
Weapon Training (firearms) +1
Feat: Burrowing Shot
--10th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 6
BAB: +10
F/R/W: +10/+7/+3
Bravery +2
Feat: Weapon Specialization (double hackbut)
--11th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 7
BAB: +11
F/R/W: +10/+7/+3
Trench Warfare (culverin)
Feat: Improved Vital Strike
--12th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 8
BAB: +12
F/R/W: +11/+7/+3
Feat: Bullseye Shot
--13th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 9
BAB: +13
F/R/W: +11/+8/+4
Weapon Training (firearms) +2
Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
Feat: Advanced Weapon Training > Weapon Specialist (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization)
--14th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 10
BAB: +14
F/R/W: +12/+8/+4
Bravery +3
Feat: Reckless Aim
--15th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 11
BAB: +15
F/R/W: +12/+8/+4
Trench Warefare (musket)
Feat: Greater Weapon Focus (double hackbut)
--16th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 12
BAB: +16
F/R/W: +13/+9/+5
Feat: Greater Vital Strike
--17th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 13
BAB: +17
F/R/W: +13/+9/+5
Weapon Training (firearms) +3
Advanced Weapon Training: Trained Initiative
Feat: Devastating Strike
--18th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 14
BAB: +18
F/R/W: +14/+9/+5
Bravery +4
Feat: Target of Opportunity
--19th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 15
BAB: +19
F/R/W: +14/+10/+6
Trench Warfare (rifle)
Feat: Grand Duchy Familiarity
--20th--
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 3, Unchained Monk (Master of Many Styles) 1, Fighter (Trench Fighter) 16
BAB: +20
F/R/W: +15/+10/+6
Feat: Greater Weapon Specialization (double hackbut)
For a tiefling variant of this, I'll have to move Rapid Reload (double hackbut) to 5th and skip Rapid Reload (culverin), as well as maybe taking Rapid Reload for the Weapon Specialist advanced weapon training instead of Weapon Specialization. If allowed to take both a variant ability and a variant heritage, this takes Asura-spawn with oversized limbs; it'd still be worth taking the baseline if I can't do a variant heritage, but if I'd be required to take the Fiendish Heritage feat or I'm not allowed to choose oversized limbs, I'd likely just stick to human.
You know, if you're doing 6d6 base damage per hit then dex to damage is superfluous IMO. Also Deadly Aim would be a bad idea.
Vital Strike might be worth it since weapon damage dice will dominate the damage you do for once. Which might make the ranger class and the Faerie's Strike or Grasping Strike feats useful.
You know, if you're doing 6d6 base damage per hit then dex to damage is superfluous IMO. Also Deadly Aim would be a bad idea.
Vital Strike might be worth it since weapon damage dice will dominate the damage you do for once. Which might make the ranger class and the Faerie's Strike or Grasping Strike feats useful.
Deadly Aim is there as a feat tax for Burrowing Shot. With such a high-damage weapon, Burrowing Shot is just brutal, since its effects appear to have no duration attached, implying they're permanent aside from taking an hour to attempt a Heal check to treat deadly wounds or taking added damage to remove the bullet as a standard action. I lose a swift action (meaning I won't be able to stand from prone that round), but by the time I have it I should be able to afford some quick-action boots. Unfortunately the only other classes I could use for the bulk of the build and get the weapon training class feature required to pick up Burrowing Shot are Myrmidarch (magus) or Arsenal Chaplain (warpriest), both of which are 3/4 BAB classes (and for this I wanted to stick to full BAB to help mitigate the -4 penalty to attack rolls).
Faerie's Strike and Grasping Strike are both viable, though, and if I give up some of my feats I could quite easily take ranger as the bulk of my build. It's a bit of a shame there's no firearms-focused combat styles, but crossbow would probably fit the best since I can still benefit from Improved Precise Shot and Shot on the Run; however, faithful (Erastil) could also provide an interesting AoO-focused build with access to Snap Shot and Improved Snap Shot. I could stick to baseline, or go with wild hunter or freebooter; I think baseline would be my best bet for maximizing attack rolls though, so long as I know what kinds of enemies I'll be up against.
How essential is Monkey Style/the level of MoMS? There aren't any penalties for using a firearm while prone, you can't be knocked prone while you already are, and I imagine any reasonable GM would consider the gun sitting on the ground to be sufficiently supported.
It's actually fairly important for being able to crawl and get up without provoking AoO. Getting back up from being prone is usually a move action that provokes, meaning I won't be able to move outside of taking a 5-foot step on any given turn. Getting the quick-action slippers makes it less important, as it then only prevents me from threatening when I get up, but it's still useful to have. That said, I could easily enough retrain that level out for an extra fighter or gunslinger level later on once the foot-slot is secure; the extra fighter level would give me weapon training 4 (but loses me 2 Fort and 2 Ref), while another gunslinger level gives me a bonus combat/grit feat (and only costs me 1 Fort and 1 Ref). If I take the ranger path mentioned above, like the Fighter route I lose 2 each of Fort and Ref, and gain 1 extra 1st level spell per day and hide in plain sight, so unless I focus on a sniping build that's probably the least rewarding trade-off.
You should be ashamed for using a combination of feats and class abilities that really do exist (but should not exist!) to lower your reloading time with that huge muzzle-loading cannon to a free action.
Ashamed!
<g>
Isn't Master of Many Styles not a legitimate archetype for an Unchained Monk? I thought Unchained Monks could only take archetypes written specifically for them.
Damn, you're right, it doesn't. I just checked, and apparently the unchained monk is the only UC class specifically locked out of all archetypes linked to baseline. Which sucks since MoMS is one of the archetypes that actually would still work with UC monk. Again, this isn't for PFS, but I'm still trying to adhere to rules as closely as I can, so it's safest to just replace UC monk with baseline monk. This means BAB drops by 1, and one hit die drops a step (d10 to d8), but I'm gaining +2 Will. Not the worst trade, but I'd be getting access to the BAB-locked feats one level later (VS at 7th rather than 6th, IVS at 12th instead of 11th, GVS at 17th instead of 16th, Burrowing Shot at 10th instead of 9th).
Well, again, I'd be likely to retrain out of it and into another Gunslinger level so I could grab Monkey Style back with the bonus feat there (or I could completely ignore it and just take 4 gunslinger levels right out the gate, allowing me to just take Monkey Style outright at 5th with either the 1st level Fighter feat or the level feat), and I didn't intend to take a second style anyway. So it's not at all a major loss, just one that makes Monkey Style come late.
Actually now that I think of it, I should have just taken the monk level at 2nd...
Titan mauler barbarian so you can use a large double hackbut. Then take furious finish and the full vital strike chain.
Titan mauler barbarian so you can use a large double hackbut. Then take furious finish and the full vital strike chain.
Would titan mauler stack with the tiefling's oversized limbs? Also I'd need at least 3 levels for any benefit. Furious Finish also seems like something that'd work better with a Medium double hackbut since the die size is so large; if I'm using a Large double hackbut (which is 6d6 damage) I'm guaranteed at least 12 damage on just baseline VS, 18 on IVS, and 24 on GVS. Granted, the maximums are pretty nasty (36/72/108/144), but I'm not 100% how much it's worthwhile.
However, I'll absolutely look into barbarian and UC barbarian as options. Even for a single-level dip, it could be worthwhile if I end up with Furious Finish.
For Barbarian check out Savage Technologist.
For you worries about standing up from prone, look into the Musketeer Swashbuckler and the Kip-Up deed.
No, it wouldn't stack with oversized limbs, but it would let you get the same effect as a human and let you qualify for furious finish. When you're rolling multiple dice like you will be with a large double hackbut and vital strike, maxing the damage will put you way up above a normal hit. The probability of rolling max damage on 6d6 is extremely low (something like 0.002%) and furious finish will actually net you much more damage than something like deadly aim in this particular instance. Also if you're feeling particularly silly, and depending on what magic items you have access too, empty quiver style can be really funny. Then you have a melee option of beating people senseless with your BFG-9000.
I'm... not a fan of Kip-Up for this. I'd need 3 levels of swashbuckler, and wouldn't even be able to do it as a swift action without spending grit/panache. What I get in 3 levels I can get from 1 level of monk (though I still lose 1 BAB for doing so).
Savage Technologist, however, I like. I may have to plot one out to see how the leveling works out for it if I go gunslinger (musket master) 3, fighter (unarmed fighter) 1, barbarian (savage technologist) 16.
I do like the idea of taking Furious Finish and popping rage, then immediately doing Furious Finish, which, unless I'm mistaken, I can do every 3 turns (rage, use FF, spend two rounds fatigued). I'd definitely miss Burrowing Shot, but this means I can skip Deadly Aim too. Not likely to take EQS though; I'd considered it, but don't see too much reason to be dealing 1d8 with an attack that targets normal AC when I could take a 5-foot step back and shoot them in the face for 6d6 with an attack that targets touch AC.
Hmm... well now I'm wondering if/how I can get the double hackbut to count as 1h. Musket master only counts it as such for reloading, but if there's a different means to make it count as a 1h for all purposes...
Do firearms have an exception like crossbows that allow them to be used while prone?
Do firearms have an exception like crossbows that allow them to be used while prone?
Yes they do. Part of the early strategy for using this build is dropping prone ahead of time. Monkey Style removes the AC penalty against melee attacks from being prone as an added benefit of not provoking AoO when I get back up, which is one of the main reasons it's something of a necessity for this.
Just a thought, but you could possibly take a level in the Unarmed Fighter archetype of Fighter instead of MoMS if you want to keep full BAB - you'd lose a +2 bump to reflex & will, stunning fist and some minor monk abilities of course. Unarmed Fighter also bypasses the style feat prereqs.
Just a thought, but you could possibly take a level in the Unarmed Fighter archetype of Fighter instead of MoMS if you want to keep full BAB - you'd lose a +2 bump to reflex & will, stunning fist and some minor monk abilities of course. Unarmed Fighter also bypasses the style feat prereqs.
While I can't do that with the Fighter 16 build (since Trench Fighter and Unarmed Fighter don't stack), that's actually the favored option over MoMS for the gunslinger 17, ranger 16, and barbarian 16 builds (which I still need to actually... build >_>). If I work with a GM who'll allow MoMS on an unchained monk, that's going to be better than UF no matter what, but I'm trying to minimize any reliance on asking a GM for house rules to be applied.
It's expensive, but a scatter weapon with the Interfering weapon enchantment would let you fire at an entire field of enemies if just one enemy moves. This could be replicated nonmagically with Snap Shot and Combat Patrol, but that would cost you many feats and a full round of actions.
Also, you cannot use Vital Strike with a scatter weapon. A scatter weapon also only misfires if every roll on the attack misfires, so your chances of misfiring are low.
Check out this post to see what a culverin can do to a ship full of pirates.
If you did want to bring a similar build to PFS, the Gun Scavenger archetype is legal and will let you modify any gun into a scatter weapon, including a double musket.
It's expensive, but a scatter weapon with the Interfering weapon enchantment would let you fire at an entire field of enemies if just one enemy moves. This could be replicated nonmagically with Snap Shot and Combat Patrol, but that would cost you many feats and a full round of actions.
Also, you cannot use Vital Strike with a scatter weapon. A scatter weapon also only misfires if every roll on the attack misfires, so your chances of misfiring are low.
Check out this post to see what a culverin can do to a ship full of pirates.
If you did want to bring a similar build to PFS, the Gun Scavenger archetype is legal and will let you modify any gun into a scatter weapon, including a double musket.
Ouch, +5 bonus is steep, but it's probably preferable to Combat Patrol, and absolutely what I'd go for with a culverin. And I was absolutely planning on taking Snap Shot (and possibly Improved Snap Shot) on the ranger build if I have room (and because they're both part of the Faithful (Erastil) combat style, I have no need to take Rapid Shot with it either).
Potentially dumb question: can I perform a free action outside of my turn? I've been told no, that only immediate actions can be done outside of my turn, and I've seen nothing that states I can do free actions outside my turn, but I may be wrong. Granted, this just rates how valuable Combat Reflexes would be, since I could load and fire AoOs with any firearm if free actions are allowed, but if not, I just need to make sure my double hackbut is loaded, and I can only use AoO with it twice.
Considering you need to use a free action to draw arrows when firing a bow, and you can make an AoO with a bow while using Snap Shot, I would say you're fine to reload your weapon to fire as well.
Since you are going to be Prone: Prone Shooter feat?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/prone-shooter-combat
The flavor text has nothing to do with the mechanics, but still could be useful.
Since you are going to be Prone: Prone Shooter feat?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/prone-shooter-combat
The flavor text has nothing to do with the mechanics, but still could be useful.
Combined with Monkey Style, the feat just comes out as an extra +2 AC against ranged attacks while I'm prone, though, doesn't it? It'd be fine if I had to wait until 5th for Monkey Style, but as it is, probably not top priority unless I get into a situation where I've gotta crawl along while waves of enemy ranged attacks are going to be coming my way. I do appreciate the suggestion though!