My friend wants to make a dragonslayer NPC for a campaign she's making. She wants 5 NPC levels and 5 PC levels. She also wants him to use nonmagical equipment. What's the most effective character to make under these terms?
Well, I'd suggest getting Dragon-bane weapons, Dragonsblood Elixirs, and-
She also wants him to use nonmagical equipment.
Oh.
That'd be nice and fun to do. Too bad not using magic is like not using your brain, in that you'd be extremely limited in the things that you can and can't do. Seriously, trying to do an arms race with a dragon, without magic, when dragons are inherently supernatural creatures, is not only suicide, but also not going to have you win out without the help of magic. Dragons use it to their advantage, why can't you?
But, if you really want a Dragonslayer with complete non-magical equipment, the only sort of classes that can function and not absolutely stink without magical equipment are full-casting classes, because they're good regardless of whatever magic items they have. Martials are too inherently required to possess magic items to be relevant, and you said that's off the table. But, magic itself, on the other hand, isn't, right? At least, that's what your post seems to imply.
The closest thing you're going to expect for anything good is 5 levels of Adept and 5 levels of Wizard/Sorcerer/Arcanist (any of those 3 will work just fine). I'd personally suggest Wizard or Arcanist, since Dragons come in all sizes and colors, and their colors mean lacking Admixture specialization (which both Wizards and Arcanists can possess) means you're going to suck nuts against certain types of dragons.
The crappy thing is that said character is going to have two sets of spell lists, and have very garbage caster level between the two spell lists. You'd be better off focusing on either class singularly (I'd suggest the PC class, because the Adept class, while it offers both divine and arcane spells, is still very limited and is only 5/9's spell progression). I mean, sure, it's an NPC, and they're not supposed to be the limelight of the party, but I can assure you, the only kind of dragons an NPC of that caliber can slay are ones still in their egg shells.
...he does realize that going after a dragon without magic weapons is like going after a werewolf without silver or a skeleton without a bludgeoning weapon, right?
We often forget, since it gets wiped out by the first upgrade most melee characters get, but dragons are one of the creatures that sport DR/magic. Which means that attacks that are not magical in nature are ineffective against them. So this goes beyond even the 'you are choosing not to upgrade your weapons' problem when it comes to doing damage.
Against high level, late game dragons, he would be losing 20 damage on every hit (more like 25, since...y'know, no enhancement bonus). And this would be very, very, very easily avoided with basic expected equipment.
If your friend wants to go with 'normal' weapons, it is best if he picks a class that inherently has abilities that upgrade their weapon. A perfect example, which could also serve well as a dragon slayer, would be the paladin. The paladin can choose to bond to his weapon and that allows him to upgrade its enhancement bonus, which helps to solve many of the problems he would face.
There. Done. He can go around saying 'my faith in my weapon alone shall carry me through' without playing stupid and failing at his purpose.
EDIT- wait, he also wants 5 NPC levels? That further makes this weak. Is this a Don Quixote character or something? Is he going to confuse dragons and windmills?
what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.
|
what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.
She wanted him to be the most famous dragonslayer in a land full of those angry wyrms. She wanted him to be powerful, but distrusting of magic because of a disgusting rivalry with a sorcerer.
Tl;dr He is a frontline fighter, designed to be fighting dragons head on.
what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.
A warrior could serve as a meat shield or giving minor attacks.
Kind of just think of it as a pet. Only it is a pet that has to be actively afraid of and bow down to your actual pets like animal companions.
what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.She wanted him to be the most famous dragonslayer in a land full of those angry wyrms. She wanted him to be powerful, but distrusting of magic because of a disgusting rivalry with a sorcerer.
Tl;dr He is a frontline fighter, designed to be fighting dragons head on.
Well, fighting Dragons head-on is precisely how you get killed. No Dragon, unless they're hatchlings, are that stupid or stubborn, nor would they be easily susceptible to such tactics.
He can't be stupid like that if he claims himself a legendary Dragonslayer, and he ought to be smart enough to understand that sometimes you have to make a deal with the Devil to stop what he thinks is a greater evil (Dragons), especially when dealing with enemies that are just as smart and conniving (if not smarter or more conniving) than that which he is disgusted by.
Also, just because he hates one sorcerer doesn't mean he should hate all Magic. There's Divine Magic, too...
What I'd do for that is a Barbarian with superstitious rage power or an untouchable bloodrager, both have resistance to magic and supplemental abilities that can help them in a dragon fight. Have them use magic weapon and armor because this is just the best armor and weapons. "I've used many a sword, this one is definitely the sharpest I've found.", "no other armor can take a blow like this one." no knowledge of it being magic needed. wondrous items are out, but just having magic gear is helpful.
Having a level 10 rager with magic gear (really helps them deal with the reduced wealth NPCs get since what else are you spending money on), this I can see as actually being someone that fights dragons and survives.
|
|
what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.She wanted him to be the most famous dragonslayer in a land full of those angry wyrms. She wanted him to be powerful, but distrusting of magic because of a disgusting rivalry with a sorcerer.
Tl;dr He is a frontline fighter, designed to be fighting dragons head on.Well, fighting Dragons head-on is precisely how you get killed. No Dragon, unless they're hatchlings, are that stupid or stubborn, nor would they be easily susceptible to such tactics.
He can't be stupid like that if he claims himself a legendary Dragonslayer, and he ought to be smart enough to understand that sometimes you have to make a deal with the Devil to stop what he thinks is a greater evil (Dragons), especially when dealing with enemies that are just as smart and conniving (if not smarter or more conniving) than that which he is disgusted by.
Also, just because he hates one sorcerer doesn't mean he should hate all Magic. There's Divine Magic, too...
This would be my friend's first story idea. I think they need a bit more time to think. They want this to be based around skyrim basically. Cutting down dragons with normal and plain iron blades. They're already fighting me with the slightest idea to have at least some slight changes of of their present idea.
|
|
What I'd do for that is a Barbarian with superstitious rage power or an untouchable bloodrager, both have resistance to magic and supplemental abilities that can help them in a dragon fight. Have them use magic weapon and armor because this is just the best armor and weapons. "I've used many a sword, this one is definitely the sharpest I've found.", "no other armor can take a blow like this one." no knowledge of it being magic needed. wondrous items are out, but just having magic gear is helpful.
Having a level 10 rager with magic gear (really helps them deal with the reduced wealth NPCs get since what else are you spending money on), this I can see as actually being someone that fights dragons and survives.
I'll run that by them. Hopefully it'll work. Thank you.
As she is the GM, she has some leeway in the character's build that might not be available to the players.
Off the top of my head, she could utilize a Warrior 5 / Inquisitor 5 to gain Bane and Judgment. Since he is to be a cut above everyone else in the world (the absolute best dragon-slayer), then he can be made with a 25 or 30 point buy.
Human (+2 to Dexterity)
Strength: 16
Dexterity: 22 [18+2+2 (for level-ups)]
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 7 (He is going after dragons without magic after all.)
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 10
HP: 74 (10+4x6+5x5+20)
BAB: +8
Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot
1st-Human: Precise Shot
3rd: Rapid Shot
5th: Manyshot
7th: Weapon Focus (Longbow)
9th: Dodge
With a masterwork bow, Judgment and Bane active, he can hit for +16/+16/+11.
(+8 BAB; +6 Dexterity; +2 Bane; +2 Judgment; +1 Weapon Focus; +1 Masterwork; -2 Rapid Shot; -2 Manyshot)
His damage with the first attack is 2d8+6+4d6+4. The second two attacks are 1d8+3+2d6+2.
If she goes with Fighter over Warrior, then he can invest in Weapon Specialization and other feats to complement and boost damage and power output.
Even Full Plate and Dodge, he is looking at 21 AC. This is going to be easy for a dragon, so he will likely get hit constantly if the dragon gets a full round. His average damage is 66 if he hits with everything, which is far from guaranteed as even a Juvenile Black Dragon (CR 8) has an AC of 24 and 105 HP. He needs slightly better than average rolls to hit everything, while the dragon hits him on a 5 with his bite, a 6 with his claws and an 11 with his wings for 37 damage a round (approximately).
The dragon needs two full rounds and he needs two full rounds on average to try and kill the other person if they are going head to head. My DPR is based on everything hitting, so there is some leeway, but it's pretty close in terms of the match-up.
Granted, if the dragon is played intelligently, then the At Will Darkness and AoOs for firing in melee are going to be a problem even if the NPC gets to go first.
Or you know, just let her make what she wants and see how it plays out. When the guy dies super easily it'll serve as a reminder to the players that magic is important.
This would be my friend's first story idea. I think they need a bit more time to think. They want this to be based around skyrim basically. Cutting down dragons with normal and plain iron blades. They're already fighting me with the slightest idea to have at least some slight changes of of their present idea.what is this NPC supposed to do?
If the answer is anything but, "Die, hide, watch, stand there, be a target for attacks, die, DIE, or DIE!!!" then he kinda "can't" have NPC levels, especially 5 of them.She wanted him to be the most famous dragonslayer in a land full of those angry wyrms. She wanted him to be powerful, but distrusting of magic because of a disgusting rivalry with a sorcerer.
Tl;dr He is a frontline fighter, designed to be fighting dragons head on.Well, fighting Dragons head-on is precisely how you get killed. No Dragon, unless they're hatchlings, are that stupid or stubborn, nor would they be easily susceptible to such tactics.
He can't be stupid like that if he claims himself a legendary Dragonslayer, and he ought to be smart enough to understand that sometimes you have to make a deal with the Devil to stop what he thinks is a greater evil (Dragons), especially when dealing with enemies that are just as smart and conniving (if not smarter or more conniving) than that which he is disgusted by.
Also, just because he hates one sorcerer doesn't mean he should hate all Magic. There's Divine Magic, too...
If they're wanting Skyrim dragons (which, by the way, not all of them are just fire-breathing monsters as they're commonly depicted in that game), then perhaps coming to a place that doesn't use or follow the idea of Skyrim dragons (or maybe it does, but they're not certainly called dragons) for suggestions isn't going to get you the most helpful of answers. Not meaning to be rude, just stating the truth of the matter.
I do agree with you in that they should think the character's story out thoroughly. It needs to make sense and be coherent in relation to the concepts being discussed. Within Pathfinder's rules set, the character described doesn't really fulfill the desired result the GM is wanting, and without more information as to why he hates magic (hating magic because of a sorcerer would imply he hates simply Arcane Magic; Divine Magic on the other hand is different, even if similar), it seems half-baked and purposefully shorting themselves without a fleshed-out reason as to why that is.
Ironically enough, even in Skyrim's setting, magic items (AKA enchanting) are very common and present, and compared to defeating some of the most difficult challenges in that game (which would include high-leveled dragons), they would be absolutely necessary. So the argument that they can't have or use magic items on that front is just plain silly.
@ Tarik Blackhands: As nice of a plot twist as that would be (so as not to detract from the PCs spotlight so much), I'm fairly certain the OP's GM isn't looking for that sort of thing. Maybe they are, but since it isn't explicitly mentioned or brought up, I wouldn't bother trying to turn the NPC into a plot-twist-device.