So, I'm trying to come up with ideas for a tank-ish melee character - just in case my current character (sorcerer) dies a quick and horrible death. I already have a collection of about a dozen or so, but I thought I'd come here and ask to see what comes up.
There's a few conditions that must be met, however:
- Sources: Core and APG. No Summoner. Archetypes and base classes from other hardcovers are fine, except occult and the vigilante.
- No level dipping (1-2 levels) unless it leads directly into a prestige class.
- No free traits. APG-traits available via Additional Traits feat.
- Standard 20 point buy. Only one ability score below 10 and not below 8 before racial modifiers.
- Starting level 12 with 82000 gp equipment. Adventure should go up to 16 or 17.
- AC at least 32. Or slightly lower if another layer of defense is available (like mirror image or high DR).
- Damage per attack at the very least 1dx + 15 including power attack. Preferably more like +20 or something.
- Numbers should be reached unbuffed or using long-term buffs (10 min/level and longer). Easily accessible short term abilites like rage or judgment are fine as well.
- Anything that helps the party or provides utility/versatility is a nice bonus but I'm primarily concerned with high personal melee survivability and decent damage.
Those aren't amazingly hard benchmarks to meet. Any 3/4 BAB class using strength-based melee, a 2H weapon and power attack could manage the minimum damage per attack at 12th level without touching their class abilities. The AC's a little harder but still not way out there.
A goliath druid can wild shape into a troll and get regeneration 5 fire/acid (as giant form I) and so be actually unkillable by many foes for hours per level. They get plenty of utility, even if that's not necessary. Damage shouldn't be an issue; use a weapon two handed with PA and it's +18 before the weapon's enhancement bonus or other buffs.
Stats in wild shape
Str 14+2 belt+6 size = 22, Dex 14-2 size = 12, Con 14+4 size+2 belt = 20, Int 10, Wis 15+2 race+4 headband+3 level = 24, Cha 8
10 000 gp for a belt of physical might +2
16 000 for a headband of wisdom +4
Strength domain for magic vestment & stoneskin
Dragonhide plate (+3 from magic vestment) +12
Barkskin +5
Wild shape natural armor +4
Dex +1
Ring of protection +2
Dusty rose prism ioun stone +1
Size -1
so AC 34 with 14 300 gp, one second level spell, one third level spell and one feat (heavy armor prof.) spent.
Assuming you take Power Attack, Heavy armor prof. & Quicken Spell that leaves you 3 feats free (4 if human) and about half your magic item budget to spend on weapons and magic items beyond the big 6. (Edit: and on a cloak of resistance of course.)
Sounds like an Invulnerable Rager is a good fit. Not going to stat out a 12th level one, but have a look at the archtype.
DR = ½ level/- is pretty high on the Tank list. The AC is not going to be too great, but it depends on your dex and how much you want to spend on AC.
The 1dx +15 should be easy with a 2 handed weapon with power attack.
Are you absolutely sure you can't stretch to the occult classes? Because at this level you could make a really fun Melee Kineticist.
Taking halfling
Str: 6 (8 before racial)
Dex: 18 (+1 at level 4)
Con: 19 (+1 at level 8 and 12)
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 10
With a
Ring of protection +2 (8000)
Amulet of NA +2 (8000)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (16000)
Mithril chain +3 (10000)
Belt of Physical might +4+4 (40000)
you take water at 1, earth at 7
You take expanded defense at 10
Ice path at 12, for pseudo flight
and pick up blade and whip whenever it suits. (take weapon finesse)
at the start of the day sink 2 points of burn into shroud of water (+6 shield bonus)
and 3 into Flesh of stone (DR 9/Adamantine)
You have a +4 to Con +2 Dex +2 Strength (size bonus) from elemental Overflow having 5 burn. This grants a +4 to hit and +8 to damage on your blasts, which I believe includes your whip. It also grants you 25% evasion chance against sneak attacks and crits.
At this level your infusion specialization means that Whip doesn't actually cost any burn.
All told you're looking at
Str: 8
Dex: 24
Con: 27
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 10
saves
Fort:17
Ref:16
Will:6 (this is your weakness :/)
Ac:35 (+7 Armour, +6 Sheild, +7 Dex, +2 Na, +2 Defl, +1 size)
DR:9/Adamantine
Attacks
Whip (reach 10 but works close as well)
+20, +15 (6D6+22) assuming elemental overflow applies to the whip.
for two more burn you can use a Composite, not worth it most of the time but if you really wanna kill something.
+20, +15 (12D6+28)
I know you said no Occult but this just seems like such a fun build and level 12 is like its sweet spot.
Yes, the damage is trivial. in fact, even damage like +25 or +30 is easy to achieve at level 12.
The (somewhat) tricky part is getting a high AC while still retaining this kind of melee damage. Most melee classes would get a shield to improve their AC, but that hurts the damage of most melee classes quite a bit.
As I said, I already have quite a few characters that acomplish those goals. Just thought I ask to see if more ideas come up :)
Edit: I'd have to ask my GM about Occult but to be honest I never looked much into this book at all. I'm not really familiar with any of those classes and would prefer to stick to non-occult content.
Oh I should have mentioned Elemental Overflow and your Defensive Wild Talents can be on all day.
Oh I forgot about the cloak of resistance for Will I think.
EDIT: In fact all the saves are missing the claock lol
How do you mean tank to begin with. Ridiculously tough beatstick charater? Or do you mean it in the MMOish sense of tough character who protects the rest of the party?
Tough beatstick can be as simple as invulnerable rager barbarian. Party protector is easiest by picking up lunge and a reach weapon + combat reflexes and stand still. I kind of like that one with abyssal or aberrant bloodrager to be honest.
I'm thinking about the "not getting hit" kind of tank. My primary concern is survival and decent melee damage. Enough damage to not be ignored and enough AC (or other means of defense) to avoid a decent amount of hits. But most of the killing is left to the party.
Stand still doesn't work at range, only adjacent. Likewise, Lunge does nothing for attacks of opportunities. I'm not a fan of combat maneuvers. Too many high CMD creatures out there to use them reliably.
Well the build I suggested can do all those things and has perfectly applicable ranged options, you only need weapon finesse, so you can still take PBS and Precise Shot and be fine at range too.
Not to mention since you already have 10ft reach with the whip you may as well take Combat Reflexes. Remember though, the Whip can be used in melee as well as at 10ft.
EDIT: lol I sound like a car salesman. Its a real shame Occult isn't on the table for you :(
Tiefling paladin with the Fey Foundling feat. The tiefling FCB gives you +1 healing when you use lay on hands on yourself. Get power attack at level 3, and you are pretty much set for life.
For a short form idea: halfling daring champion cavalier, order of the eastern star. Precise strike gives +12 damage, challenge gives another +12 which meets your damage minimum already. AC with celestial armor, a +2 buckler and combat expertise (order of the eastern star negates most of the penalties & improves the benefits) & the usual big 6 is likely to beat 32 by a fair margin.
Tieflings are not allowed, especially not the spawn-kind.
The Cavalier and the Monk sound good. However...
Feats are mostly limited to Core + APG and a master of many stlyes without style feats is useless.
Also, I really really dislike both Cavaliers and the whole penache/grit mechanic. Though I might end up taking a closer look at the swashbuckler and give it a go.
Thanks for all suggestions so far! Keep them coming :)
I have a build for a heavily multiclassed halfling, so I don't know if you could still like him or not.
It goes Unchained Rogue (Thug), Brawler, Swashbuckler (Mouser) and Fighter (Weapon master)
It's actually a 12th level build, and with the right equipement goes up to 46 AC, +26 to hit, +31 to dmg and can impose heavy debuffs on opponents (Shaken, Sickened, debilitating injurty and the Underfoot deed) all in one round.
He can easly lock one foe no matter how tough it is. His only kriptonite is being grappled, and maybe a better will save.
So he is actually a great tank and dps, but also can work as a face and scout for the party.
Not to derail or anything but @Oldrolero I was curious what your dude does to deal with flight/ranged magic users targeting touch and stuff like that, does he have room for bow feats?
I have a pair of partial suggestions, but no time to flesh them out. One is a sword and board ranger, the other is a fighter dual wielding shields. The key to both concepts is the shield master feat, which will negate the TWF penalties and let you use their armor enhancement bonus as their weapon enhancement, saving on cash while upgrading both.
If you go the fighter route, make sure to look up the advanced weapon training options from Weapon Masters Handbook, and consider adding combat patrol so you can add in some area denial and protect the squishies. That may sound like a lot, but a fighter will have the feats to spare for it. Recommend you go close group for 1st weapon training, bows for second, and find a way to squeeze in the feats for extra AWT picks. For armor, Go full plate. Your armor training will let you get full dex to ac at that point. You will have STUPID high ac, but be enough of a threat that they can't ignore you, especially which the shield slam feat knocking ppl prone.
Cleric 6 -> Envoy of Balance 2 -> Holy Vindicator X
The trick is getting the Envoy of Balance in there given that it's from Champions of Balance, but that setup can Twinned Channel into the shield for both a Sacred and Profane bonus to AC. If you push to Envoy 4, its levels stack for Channel, as well, and the Versatile Channeler penalty goes away.
Required feats: Alignment Channel, Versatile Channeler
I don't have Champions of Balance in my Hero Lab, so I couldn't get the full setup (hence the 2 missing levels), but here's a mock-up with spells, 3 feats, and skills all available to allocate still. This is pre-buffed with only Vindicator's Shield - other buffs could be applied as desired ahead of time.
Human cleric of Gorum 6/holy vindicator 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 263)<br/>
N Medium humanoid (human)<br/>
'''Init '''+0; '''Senses '''Perception +3<br/>
----
'''Defense'''<br/>
----
'''AC '''36, touch 17, flat-footed 36 (+12 armor, +2 deflection, +2 natural, +5 sacred, +5 shield)<br/>
'''hp '''83 (10 HD; 6d8+4d10+26)<br/>
'''Fort '''+14, '''Ref '''+8, '''Will '''+15<br/>
'''Defensive Abilities '''vindicator's shield<br/>
----
'''Offense'''<br/>
----
'''Speed '''30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)<br/>
'''Melee '''''+2 adamantine scimitar'' +13/+8 (1d6+14/18-20)<br/>
'''Special Attacks '''channel positive energy 3/day (DC 15, 5d6), destructive smite (+3, 6/day)<br/>
'''Cleric Spells Prepared '''(CL 9th; concentration +12)<br/>
:'''D''' Domain spell; '''Domains''' Destruction, War (Tactics subdomain)<br/>
----
'''Statistics'''<br/>
----
'''Str '''22, '''Dex '''10, '''Con '''14, '''Int '''10, '''Wis '''16, '''Cha '''10<br/>
'''Base Atk '''+8; '''CMB '''+11; '''CMD '''31<br/>
'''Feats '''Alignment Channel, Power Attack, Versatile Channeler<sup>UM</sup><br/>
'''Skills '''Acrobatics -6 (-10 to jump)<br/>
'''Languages '''Common<br/>
'''SQ '''divine wrath, faith healing, seize the initiative, stigmata: ac, stigmata: attack rolls, stigmata: caster level checks, stigmata: saving throws, stigmata: weapon damage<br/>
'''Other Gear '''''+3 full plate'', ''+3 heavy steel shield'', ''+2 adamantine scimitar'', ''amulet of natural armor +2'', ''belt of giant strength +2'', ''cloak of resistance +5'', ''headband of inspired wisdom +2'', ''ring of protection +2'', 2,165 gp<br/>
----
'''Special Abilities'''<br/>
----
'''Alignment Channel (Law)''' Channel Energy heals or harms outsiders of the chosen alignment.<br/>
'''Cleric Domain (Destruction)''' Granted Powers: You revel in ruin and devastation, and can deliver particularly destructive attacks.<br/>
'''Cleric Domain (Tactics)''' <br/>
'''Destructive Smite +3 (6/day) (Su)''' Make a melee attack with morale bonus to damage.<br/>
'''Divine Wrath (Sp)''' When you confirm a critical hit or an enemy critical hits you, you may sacrifice a 1st-level spell to inflict doom on them.<br/>
'''Faith Healing (empower) (Su)''' Cure wounds spells you cast on yourself are Empowered.<br/>
'''Power Attack -3/+6''' You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.<br/>
'''Sacred Stigmata: AC +2 (Standard) (Su)''' Inflict 2 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +2 bonus to AC.<br/>
'''Sacred Stigmata: Attack Rolls +2 (Standard) (Su)''' Inflict 2 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +2 bonus to attack.<br/>
'''Sacred Stigmata: Caster Level Checks +2 (Standard) (Su)''' Inflict 2 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +2 bonus to CL checks.<br/>
'''Sacred Stigmata: Saving Throws +2 (Standard) (Su)''' Inflict 2 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +2 bonus to saves.<br/>
'''Sacred Stigmata: Weapon Damage +2 (Standard) (Su)''' Inflict 2 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +2 bonus to weapon damage.<br/>
'''Seize the Initiative (6/day) (Su)''' An ally within 30' may take the better of 2d20 for initiative<br/>
'''Versatile Channeler''' Channel both positive and negative energy<br/>
'''Versatile Cleric Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (3/day, DC 15) (Su)''' Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.<br/>
'''Vindicator's Sacred Shield +5 (- Custom / magic armor -) (Su)''' Channel energy into shield for sacred/profane AC bonus for 24 hr or until hit.<br/>
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
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Not to derail or anything but @Oldrolero I was curious what your dude does to deal with flight/ranged magic users targeting touch and stuff like that, does he have room for bow feats?
His touch AC can rise to 31, so he's more and less safe there, not untouchable but good enough to be missed on a general basis.
Onto the flight problem, yes, the build I have is not final, and I am considering not getting an advanced weapon training with the Fighter Weapon Master to change it on the fly with the Martial Versatily of the Brawler and get the Item Mastery feat you need according to the situation (Fly Mastery on this regard).
Another option is using a Celestial Armor, which comes with a once per day Fly spell.
The ranged problem can be workable, but yes, that would involve modifing the build a bit.
Stonelord Paladin. High AC, DR, Lay on Hands, Dwarven trait/feat gives +5 to saves vs Spells and Spell-Like, and can stop people in their tracks.
I made this pretty quickly but you can flavor to taste:
Dwarf paladin (stonelord) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 16)
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0 (+2 to notice unusual stonework)
Aura courage (10 ft.), resolve (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 13, flat-footed 29 (+12 armor, +2 deflection, +1 Dex, +5 natural)
hp 124 (12d10+48)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +8; +2 vs. poison, +4 vs. spells and spell-like abilities, +1 trait bonus vs. spells, spell-like abilities, and poison
Defensive Abilities defensive training, fortification 50%, stoneblood; DR 6/adamantine; Immune charm, fear, petrification
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +2 dwarven dorn-dergar +21/+16/+11 (1d10+12)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with +2 dwarven dorn-dergar)
Special Attacks hatred, phase strike, stonestrike
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +13)
. . At will—detect evil
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 25, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +12; CMB +19; CMD 32 (36 vs. bull rush, 36 vs. trip)
Feats Darting Viper, Elemental Channel, Improved Initiative, Lunge, Monkey Lunge, Power Attack, Steel Soul[APG]
Traits glory of old, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -3 (-7 to jump), Appraise +0 (+2 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones), Diplomacy +15, Perception +0 (+2 to notice unusual stonework), Sense Motive +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ defensive powers (bulwark[APG], halting blow[APG]), defensive stance, lay on hands 7/day (6d6), mercy (fatigued), stone servant
Combat Gear blood-boiling pill (10); Other Gear +3 full plate, +2 dwarven dorn-dergar, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of giant strength +6, ring of protection +2, 10,400 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Resolve +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. charm.
Bulwark +5 (Ex) In defensive stance, add ACP to DC of bluff/acrobatics to move past you without AoO.
Damage Reduction (6/adamantine) You have Damage Reduction against all except Adamantine attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Darting Viper You may change whether you’re using the dorndergar as a normal or reach weapon as a swift action.
Defensive Stance (29 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, +2 to AC when defending, but may not move.
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs. monsters of the Giant subtype.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Elemental Channel (Earth) Channel Energy can affect a chosen elemental subtype of outsiders.
Fortification 50% You have a chance to negate critical hits on attacks.
Greed +2 to Appraise to determine price of nonmagic goods with precious metals or gemstones.
Halting Blow (Ex) In defensive stance, AoO provoked by movement stops foe from moving if it hits.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs. Goblinoids/Orcs.
Immunity to Charm You are immune to charm effects.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Petrification You are immune to Petrification.
Lay on Hands (6d6 hit points, 7/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Monkey Lunge Take a standard action to extend your reach 5 feet until the end of your next turn.
Phase Strike (Su) Your blows ignore metal or stone cover.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Steel Soul Hardy's save vs. spells and spell-like abilities becomes +4
Stone Servant (Large, 3/day) (Su) Summon an earth elemental to fight beside you.
Stoneblood (50% fortification, +12 to stabilize) (Ex) 50% fortification, +12 to stabilize.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Stonestrike +3 (12 rounds/day) (Su) Gain bonus to att/dam/CMB, ignore 24 hardness & if on earth/stone add to CMD.
This gives you a 30 AC when not in defensive stance (still have DR 6/Adamantine), 32 when you are. In Defensive Stance and Stonestriking (12rds/day) you'll be 1d10+30.
Another idea, is you can use the Barbarian Rage Cycle trick wehre you take a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochan Ioun Stone, and take Internal Fortitude as one of your Defensive Powers. This would put your lockdown ability back until level 16, which may not be worth it since you can remove Fatigue with LoH 7/day.
Other options would be to drop Improved Intuitive, and Darting Viper, take Shield Focus, and Shield Brace (Armor Master's Handbook) and use a Bardiche. This will give you a 36 AC (+2 Light Shield) while in Defensive Stance. You can Shield Bash if they get in your reach.
I realize a lot of this uses books you may not have access to, but maybe it will give you some ideas. You could always just to Stalwart Defender, instead of Stonelord.
EDIT: To remove a lot of the splat books, you could just to 7 level of Phalanx Soldier Fighter, into Stalwart Defender. This has the down side of not being able to clear Fatigue without the Ioun Stone trick.
If you have access to the Weapon and Armor Master's handbooks for feats and advanced Weapon/armor training, a standard fighter can achieve this easily, and with things like versatile training you can boost the crap out of your skills for out of combat effectiveness. You could even be a high-skill magic armor crafter with one of the advanced armor training options.
Sample Build for tanky fighter with potency:
Dwarf Fighter 12
Dwarven Longhammer +2
Adamantine Full Plate +4
Advanced Armor Training: armor specialist: Full Plate
Advanced Armor Training: armored juggernaut
Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
Advanced Weapon Training: Defensive Weapon Training
This nets you Adamantine Armor of +16 AC with DR 6/-
Have 14 Dex for +2
Defensive Weapon Training gets you +2 shield
+2 ring of protection brings you up to 32
Ironhide Feat gives you +1 nat armor for 33 (not an amazing feat, but you have them to spare)
33 AC and DR 6/- with a reach Weapon for position control. With 20 STR and power attack you'd hit at +17/12/7 for 2D6+21 But your strength could easily be higher. Gloves of dueling would double Weapon Training and boost hit/damage by 2.
Feats: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Lunge, Advanced Weapon Training, Pushing Assault, Ironhide and Steel Soul. Between Armed Bravery and Steel Soul you aren't losing will saves. In Melee you have a big range and can control the area easily. With potions of enlarge, Lunge and pushing assault, nobody is full-attacking you, ever.
And you still have 5 feats to do whatever you want with. I'd grab extra traits (Dwarven trait militant merchant gives you the oh-so-needed perception as a class skill, then grab something like reactionary for +2 initiative)
If you don't have access to those handbooks, sorry for wasting your time.
EDIT: You don't have Militant Merchant in the APG, so instead go LN alignment and take Eyes and Ears of the City for +1 Perception and class skill
Human holy vindicator 3/oracle 9 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, 263)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 36, touch 18, flat-footed 36 (+12 armor, +2 deflection, +2 natural, +6 sacred, +4 shield)
hp 121 (12 HD; 9d8+3d10+55)
Fort +12, Ref +8, Will +12
Defensive Abilities vindicator's shield; Immune fatigue
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +2 adamantine scimitar +14/+9 (1d6+14/18-20)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 7/day (DC 20, 6d6)
Oracle Spells Known (CL 11th; concentration +15)
. . 5th (4/day)—breath of life (DC 19), mass cure light wounds, life bubble[APG] (DC 19)
. . 4th (7/day)—air walk, blessing of fervor[APG] (DC 18), cure critical wounds, divine power, freedom of movement, restoration, spell immunity
. . 3rd (7/day)—cure serious wounds, daylight, invisibility purge, neutralize poison, prayer, wind wall
. . 2nd (7/day)—align weapon, cure moderate wounds, instant armor[APG], resist energy, lesser restoration, shield other, status
. . 1st (7/day)—bless, cure light wounds, detect undead, divine favor, protection from evil, remove fear, shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, detect poison, light, mending, purify food and drink (DC 14), read magic, spark[APG] (DC 14), stabilize
. . Mystery Life
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +9; CMB +12; CMD 33
Feats Alignment Channel, Extra Channel, Extra Revelation[APG], Power Attack, Quick Channel[UM], Selective Channeling, Toughness
Skills Acrobatics -5 (-9 to jump), Diplomacy +19, Heal +4, Knowledge (religion) +7, Sense Motive +15, Use Magic Device +16
Languages Common
SQ faith healing, oracle's curse (lame), revelations (enhanced cures, life link, channel, safe curing), slow and steady, stigmata: ac, stigmata: attack rolls, stigmata: caster level checks, stigmata: saving throws, stigmata: weapon damage
Other Gear +3 full plate, +3 buckler, +2 adamantine scimitar, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), cloak of resistance +4, headband of alluring charisma +2, ring of protection +2, 5,180 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alignment Channel (Evil) Channel Energy heals or harms outsiders of the chosen alignment.
Enhanced Cures (+9 cap) (Su) For cure spells, any level caps in the spell become oracle or shaman level.
Faith Healing (empower) (Su) Cure wounds spells you cast on yourself are Empowered.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Lame One of your legs is permanently wounded, reducing your base land speed by 10 feet if your base speed is 30 feet or more. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, your speed is reduced by 5 feet. Your speed is never reduced due to encumbrance. At 5th
Life Link (9 max bonds, 190 feet) (Su) As a standard action, establish bond that drains your HP to heal others who have taken 5 dam.
Oracle Channel Positive Energy 6d6 (7/day, DC 20) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Channel Channel energy faster by expending more uses
Safe Curing (Su) Casting healing spells does not provoke AoO
Selective Channeling Exclude targets from the area of your Channel Energy.
Slow and Steady (Ex) At 10th level, your speed is never reduced by armor.
Stigmata: AC +1 (Standard) (Su) Inflict 1 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Stigmata: Attack Rolls +1 (Standard) (Su) Inflict 1 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +1 bonus to attack.
Stigmata: Caster Level Checks +1 (Standard) (Su) Inflict 1 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +1 bonus to CL checks.
Stigmata: Saving Throws +1 (Standard) (Su) Inflict 1 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +1 bonus to saves.
Stigmata: Weapon Damage +1 (Standard) (Su) Inflict 1 HP of bleed damage on yourself to gain a +1 bonus to weapon damage.
Vindicator's Sacred Shield +6 (- Custom / magic armor -) (Su) Channel energy into shield for sacred/profane AC bonus for 24 hr or until hit.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
Note: the only non-Core, non-APG option selected is Quick Channel, which is from Ultimate Magic. It's optional, but very helpful. While this build lists at 121 HP, its effective HP is far, FAR larger based on the ability to Quick Channel as a move action, then cast a Cure spell for significant healing each round. Note that 2 levels of Oracle came after the 3 HV levels, allowing for the alternate FCB to pull additional 4th level spells into our spells known. My recommended progression would be another level of Oracle at 13 at a minimum (this nets you Heal), possibly progressing the rest of your career in Oracle.
I was halfway through a AoO Kineticist tank build before I saw "no occult classes". Alas. Being able to start *after* you have kinetic whip and two elemental defenses would save a lot of headache.
I'll have to find some other opportunity to pull the "move action to gather energy, empowered bowling kinetic whip with kinetic form active to be able to make up to 7 AoOs while threatening every square from 5' to 20' for 1.5*(6d6+22) plus trip." You'd also have DR7/Adamantine and a pool of 24 temp HP that regenerates at 2/minute plus whatever AC 42k gp buys.
I was halfway through a AoO Kineticist tank build before I saw "no occult classes". Alas. Being able to start *after* you have kinetic whip and two elemental defenses would save a lot of headache.
I'll have to find some other opportunity to pull the "move action to gather energy, empowered bowling kinetic whip with kinetic form active to be able to make up to 7 AoOs while threatening every square from 5' to 20' for 1.5*(6d6+22) plus trip." You'd also have DR7/Adamantine and a pool of 24 temp HP that regenerates at 2/minute plus whatever AC 42k gp buys.
Even if the OP can't use it, I would still love to see that build.
An additional idea to boost AC is to invest a little gold in a pearl of power. If you have a Cleric in the party, give them a level 1 pearl in exchange for a shield of faith cast, or give a level 2 to someone that can cast barkskin. You're either getting +4 deflection or +5 natural armor for a pretty good duration (barkskin would go further and you likely have a ring of protection the deflection wouldn't stack with)
Alchemists can make surprisingly good tanks. They have easy access to a protector tumor familiar, with the ability to apply good buffs and healing to themselves. And their bombs can be good for drawing the attention of multiple enemies.
Even if the OP can't use it, I would still love to see that build.I was halfway through a AoO Kineticist tank build before I saw "no occult classes". Alas. Being able to start *after* you have kinetic whip and two elemental defenses would save a lot of headache.
I'll have to find some other opportunity to pull the "move action to gather energy, empowered bowling kinetic whip with kinetic form active to be able to make up to 7 AoOs while threatening every square from 5' to 20' for 1.5*(6d6+22) plus trip." You'd also have DR7/Adamantine and a pool of 24 temp HP that regenerates at 2/minute plus whatever AC 42k gp buys.
It's fairly similar to mine but you take aether instead of water and it has a couple more feats
with so few options availible it sounds like a terible game :(
Not really. In fact, I prefer it this way. I can still get individual feats and such if the GM approves. Limiting the base number of feats and spells makes things easier and at least somewhat balanced overall. Some of the newer stuff is outright ridiculous.
Also, when it comes to rules and optimization, I'm by far the best player in the group. The rest are mostly new players who have only been playing for a short-ish while and don't care too much for such things. Hitting them with thousands of feats and spells to choose from doesn't really seem like a good idea.
Anyway, to the topic at hand: I have now added the Swashbuckler to the list of classes to consider. After taking a good long look at the class, I actually think it's one of the stronger options. AC gets pretty high with celestial armor, high Dex and a buckler. Damage is also decent if I can convince the GM to allow one of the dex to damage feats. I tried to build one with slashing grace and he's sitting at AC 35 and 1d6+28 damage with the highst attack bonus of all characters. He's at +26/+21/+16, some other classes match that but lose due to Power Attack. The low-ish saves are a problem an I'm not convinced that charmed life alone will keep him alive but seeing how he can be near invincible in meele with his high AC and parry ability, having weak saves is probably a good balance tradeoff.
Thanks again for all suggstions so far. I really appreciate it :)
the newer stuff it out there to help balence stuff out tho especially for martials
Yeah, but the caster/melee balance isn't that bad in a party of mostly inexperienced players. Our caster oracle doesn't know her spells very well and is more likely to use scorching ray (via blackened) than hold person on an uninjured giant standing right next to her. The magus had like half a dozen near-death experiences before he started to use defensive spells. The strongest current party member is probably the archer ranger and that's mostly due to archery's general high performance + favored enemy.
This overall poor decision making plus a few pretty bad rolls has resulted in numerous deaths so far. We had two party wipes and multiple individual deaths. I'm on my 5th character myself, so you can see why I'm always looking for potential replacements. It might also give you an idea why I'm not trying to build a super versatile and/or super optimized character. I don't want to shift the party balance too hard in a direction that the other players can't follow. Just a solid front liner who can stand toe to toe with the enemy and live to tell the tale.
In a party like that, why don't stick to the basics then.
How about a good old dwarf vanilla fighter?
Get the usual Steel Soul feat, additional traits to grab Defender of the society and Glory of old, and the go for the advanced armor and weapon options if you are allowed.
With Shield Brace you can keep your shield and go Two-Handed, and with all the heavy armor goodies there are now, you can easily go to the 30's on AC, be still pretty good dealing damage and have a toon of HP and great saves thanks to being a dwarf.
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Tanking is often about area denial as well as being tough.
Consider Aberrant Bloodrager with a reach weapon. They can tank, being basically Barbarians. Think about Con and armour to suit. Use a great big glaive or something.
Aberrant Bloodrager gets a reliable way of extending his arms to make his reach enormous. You will also need Tumor Familiar (available for one feat with that Bloodline) and take the Protector Archetype and don't detach it.
It will do stuff like Bodyguard and In Harm's Way for you while still regenerating 5/round. Protector Tumor vastly improves your tankiness.
This guy will hit your benchmarks with room to spare and even some utility spells if you want.
In a party like that, why don't stick to the basics then.
The basics are boring :D
Or more to the point: I can cover the basics very easily. I already got a Dwarven Fighter (Phalanx Soldier for novelty) and an Unchained Armored Hulk Barbarian, a Sword and Board Paladin and a dozen more characters. Those include a few that usually don't outright scream "tank" like a Skald or Alchemist.
The point of this topic isn't covering the basics. It's getting inspired to try out new things like the Swashbuckler. :)
I understand not wanting to overwhelm new players with options but I think it's a shame to take them off the table for more expeirced players
The point of this topic isn't covering the basics. It's getting inspired to try out new things like the Swashbuckler. :)
Then, may I present you to Clovis Lanfor? The Halfling I mentioned earlier :)
Race: Halfling
Alternative Racial Traits: Fleet of Foot, Skulker
Abilities (20p/buy)
1st S12-2 D16+2 C13 I12 W10 C12+2
12th S10 D24 C14 I14 W12 C16 (+1 Con +2 Dex / Lv, +4 Dex belt, +2 Mental headband)
Unchained Rogue 4 (Thug), Swashbuckler (Mouser) 3, Brawler 1, Fighter (Weapon master) 4
FBC (UR: +4HP)
1 - R1 - Finesse training, Sneak Attack +1d6, Frightening, Dodge
2 - R2 - Evasion, Rogue Talent (Slow Reactions)
3 - R3 - Brutal Beating, Finesse training, Sneak attack +2d6, Mobility
4 - R4 - Debilitating injury, Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent (Combat trick: Enforcer), +1 Con
5 - B1 - Brawler's cunning, Martial flexibility, Martial training, Unarmed strike, Canny Tumble
6 - S1 - Panache, Deeds (Underfoot Assault, Derring-Do, Dodging Panache), Swashbuckler Finesse, Pirahna Strike
7 - S2 - Charmed life 3/day, Crane Style
8 - S3 - Deeds (Kip-Up, Quick Steal, Swashbuckler Initiative, Precise Strike), Nimble +1, +1 Dex
9 - F1 - Cautious Fighter, Iron Will
10 - F2 - Weapon Guard, Improved Critical
11 - F3 - Weapon Training, Risky Striker
12 - F4 - Advanced Weapon Training (Warrior Spirit), +1 Dex
Like I said, He is heavily multiclassed, but is a Halfling swordman badass, with many tricks to his sleeve.
His to go strategy is to Canny tumble into a foe and do an unarmed strike. That grants a sneak attack that let us active the Enforcer feat (non-letal damage), sacrifice one die on SA to activate the Brutal Beating (Sickened) and the Debilitating injury (Disoriented recommended), and you denny his AoO (Slow Reactions). If we have time, we can use a Reduce person wand before and since he is tiny now, he can get into the square of the enemy without being attacked first (activating the Underfoot Assault deed).
If done correctly, the enemy will have -10 attacking our allies and -8 attacking us, and as soon as another of our friends gets to him (most probably the magus) he is flanked too.
One fun thing you can do is try to steal things from your opponents with the Quick Steal feature. Sure, you don't get any bonuses, but is a free shot if you hit them, so, why not? Spell component pouches, unattended wands, weapons and potions should be easy targets.
Fighting defensively with Crane Style + Cautious Fighter + Dodge and size bonuses and the gear you can carry, the AC go easily to 40. You will be almost always untouchable. And best of all, you will be doing all this with style.
This guy is kewl^^^^
not the best will saves/ranged options but you don't want him to be too perfect.
Is there any reason in particular you don't want multiclassing?
I'm shocked no one has explicitly brought up a Holy Vindicator Oradin (unless I missed it), which has to be my favorite tank build.
4 levels of Life Oracle mixed with 7 levels of Hospitaler/Warrior of Holy Light Paladin, then into Holy Vindicator to advance oracle spellcasting, martial ability, and both your channels.
Fey Foundling at level 1, play an elf or half-elf for the elf paladin FCB. Legalistic is an underwhelming, but very easy/thematic Oracle curse (though many others are fine.)
Take a peek at the GiantITP guide for some more ideas.
Incredible defenses, powerful self-healing, strong buffing, decent spellcasting, fantastic damage with and without smite, and the ability to soak damage for your team even if you're ignored.
Is there any reason in particular you don't want multiclassing?
Nope. I just don't like excessive multiclassing. Also thought I'd rule out level dipping to avoid suggestions like the wildshaping druid who fights with feral ferocity (yes, I know that's redundant) but still somehow manages to keep calm enough to use his one level of monk to get his wisdom to AC.
Also, most multiclassing aims to get one or two specific abilities of another class that, when combined with your other class(es) results in something neither class should be able to achieve. An easy example would be the extreme strength score of barbarian/alchemist builds.
As a rule of thumb, I only multiclass when going into a prestige class that requires multiple classes. I also tried to build a character that alternate levels of rogue and fighter but I ended up going fighter 4/rogue x. So I guess in some cases, about 4+ levels of another class are somehow fine in my head.
I usually try to make ONE class work per character and stick with it. This can be a Prestige Class if it's the core of the build. I wouldn't dip shadow dancer as a rogue just to get HiPS, and I wouldn't do the popular crossblooded sorcerer dip for a blaster wizard and so on.
Oh boy, look at me rambling...
TL;DR: I appreciate any input, and don't mind multiclassing in general. It's just not something I like or want to do.
Is there any reason in particular you don't want multiclassing?Nope. I just don't like excessive multiclassing. Also thought I'd rule out level dipping to avoid suggestions like the wildshaping druid who fights with feral ferocity (yes, I know that's redundant) but still somehow manages to keep calm enough to use his one level of monk to get his wisdom to AC.
Also, most multiclassing aims to get one or two specific abilities of another class that, when combined with your other class(es) results in something neither class should be able to achieve. An easy example would be the extreme strength score of barbarian/alchemist builds.
As a rule of thumb, I only multiclass when going into a prestige class that requires multiple classes. I also tried to build a character that alternate levels of rogue and fighter but I ended up going fighter 4/rogue x. So I guess in some cases, about 4+ levels of another class are somehow fine in my head.
I usually try to make ONE class work per character and stick with it. This can be a Prestige Class if it's the core of the build. I wouldn't dip shadow dancer as a rogue just to get HiPS, and I wouldn't do the popular crossblooded sorcerer dip for a blaster wizard and so on.
Oh boy, look at me rambling...
TL;DR: I appreciate any input, and don't mind multiclassing in general. It's just not something I like or want to do.
I have a similar philosophy to be fair mad about 15 characters with one multi class between them (1 level dip inspired blade to get parry riposte and Dec to damage on a vexing daredevil mesmerist makes them work as fencers much more reliably).
But for what you are looking for and with the available books I don't think you'll get much better than Oldrolero's dude honestly he looks too strong for what you want if anything
This guy is kewl^^ not the best will saves/ranged options but you don't want him to be too perfect.
That's is exactly the case ;)
I don't intend him to be perfect, and the concept of the character is an arrogant but lovable badass halfling. I already mentioned before that his Will ST was his kriptonite, but I think that flaws like this are what makes a character more appealing, and not just a bunch of numbers.
Sorry! You're tiny! No sneak attack or stealing for you if what you want to steal is above his knees and unless his kidneys are in his ankles!
Still, it's impressive that your hypodermic needle deals 1d3+5 damage.
Aberrant bloodline bloodrager seems pretty great too. Its not too tough for them to have a 20' reach + lunge. Take that dwarves.
I second the idea of Goliath Druid as a tank.
As a Half-Elf or Orc you will have extremely high AC with the FCB and permanent Giant Form along with regen.
Your large and then huge size allows you to have very wide area coverage.
If you take Half-Elf you can get free proficiency in a Fauchard.
Feats: Power attack, Improved Trip, powerful wild shape and 2 free. Goliath Druids don't need natural spellcaster.
I put together a war priest build that was a good "tank". In the link above. Just trade out weapon specialization or Swift Aid for additional traits.
Hope it helps.
Could work with other classes too, you need phalanx fighter, combat reflexes, bodyguard, shield brace, and additional traits to get the half lung racial trait helpful via adopted and fool for friends.
Basically hand out around +9 or +10 AC via Bodyguard along with being a reach blender and getting to use a shield.
The Bodyguard-Warpriest seems a bit out of my reach due to quite a few feats/traits that aren't avalable unless I ask my GM to allow them specifically. Thanks anyway :)
I don't think the goliath druid is what I'm looking for. Powerful or not, I don't want to run around as a troll all day.
By the way, for those who care, here's a list of the characers I have so far:
- Vivisectionist Alchemist. Heavy armor + Greater Mutegen + Barkskin + shield for AC 39. Preserve organs and Mummyfication for additional protection.
- Arcane Duelist Bard. Longsword and shield. Surprisingly competent in combat (AC 32, +22/+17 1d8+22) with little efford (Inspire courage + Heroism).
- Unchained Armored Hulk Barbarian. Dwarven Waraxe + Shield. Beast Totem and Guarded Stance for extra AC. Greater Beast Totem for Pounce and Improved Vital Strike for when the move action is occupied with activating the stance. Also Improved DR for DR 8/- in rage. Invulnerable rager would probably be better, but I want to try something a bit different.
- Cleric 8/Holy Vindicator 4. A bit on the weak side for AC (without Vindicator's shield) and damage. But almost full cleric spell power makes up for it.
- Fighter 4/Unchained Rogue 8. Elven Curve Blade and high Dex for good damage and AC. Reaches AC 36 with Major Magic (Shield)
- Phalanx Soldier Fighter. Only decent damage and AC, but works well in groups by providing cover. Uses Improved Vital strike with his Lucern Hammer (1d12) when the move action is used to grant cover.
- Inquisitor. Rapier, Shield and Heavy Armor. Very flexible. Can go for more offense or defense with judgement and buffs. Weak offense without any buffs.
- Unchained Monk. Extra AC on demand with furious defense and Defensive Spin. Low attack and damage (+16 2d8+15) but many attacks.
- Paladin. Scimitar + Shield. Good defense but weak offense without Smite.
- Skald. Good AC via Beast Totem. Decent offense, useful spells + Spell Kenning for Utility. Quite a bit better than I thought.
- Slayer. Fishing for Crits with a Scimitar so he gets free Shield Bashs. Decent AC and damage.
- Stonelord Paladin. Decent Stats all around. DR 6/adamantine and 50% fortification is nice. Self-Heal via Lay on Hands. Stonestrike is a weak substitute for Smite Evil but decent enough.
- Swashbuckler. Awesome phsyical defense. AC 35 + Parry. Good offensive as well (+26/+21/+16 1d6+28). Only really playable if GM allows any dex to damage feat.
- Warpriest. A good character according to the numbers. But I can't get myself to actually like the class.