[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Combat Kickstarter


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Jolly, it is tomorrow over here ^m^

Silver Crusade

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J4RH34D wrote:
Jolly, it is tomorrow over here ^m^

And it's 3 in the morning here; why am I awake? We're still deciding which class to show, it might be one of the unannounced ones, although we have a solid idea on which spheres we'll be showing here. One of the spheres being shown off is one that I've worked on a lot.


You are awake so you can spoil your international fans with a preview :p

Silver Crusade

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J4RH34D wrote:
You are awake so you can spoil your international fans with a preview :p

I'm live now and so is the preview!


The preview is awesome.

I assume you can only apply one talent to an attack. The Open Hand talents have a number of sorta "passive" enhancements - Deadly hand for example, the idea of stacking them seems pretty intense.

If not I could see that as a feat or class ability.

This preview will let me try out a "monk" Striker with Athletics, Boxing and Open Hand. I'll just have to wait for Wrestling to fill it out..


Boxing [Dedicate] with Shoulder Roll and Surprise Counter combined with Open Hand with Deadly Hand, Snap Kick, and Sweeping Kicks looks quite sick. Then again, 7 talents is a fairly heavy investment into unarmed fighting styles.

While the critical threat increase from Boxing [Dedicate] says it stacks with everything, is the increase calculated before or after Improved Critical? Also, Deadly Hand doesn't say anything about how it interacts with Improved Critical or similar effects.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Lirya wrote:

Boxing [Dedicate] with Shoulder Roll and Surprise Counter combined with Open Hand with Deadly Hand, Snap Kick, and Sweeping Kicks looks quite sick. Then again, 7 talents is a fairly heavy investment into unarmed fighting styles.

While the critical threat increase from Boxing [Dedicate] says it stacks with everything, is the increase calculated before or after Improved Critical? Also, Deadly Hand doesn't say anything about how it interacts with Improved Critical or similar effects.

I believe both of those should be applied after effects like keen or Improved Critical, but I'll double check with the team on that one.

Silver Crusade

Lirya wrote:

Boxing [Dedicate] with Shoulder Roll and Surprise Counter combined with Open Hand with Deadly Hand, Snap Kick, and Sweeping Kicks looks quite sick. Then again, 7 talents is a fairly heavy investment into unarmed fighting styles.

While the critical threat increase from Boxing [Dedicate] says it stacks with everything, is the increase calculated before or after Improved Critical? Also, Deadly Hand doesn't say anything about how it interacts with Improved Critical or similar effects.

It's after, anything I write that improves crit range does so last, so you're not double dipping with improved critical and such.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm really liking the Blacksmith class you've put up since it's such a woefully unexplored design space. The iconic story of a blacksmith's son who was training as an apprentice, setting out to slay a dragon is a pretty big fantasy staple. I'm glad to finally see mechanics to support that concept. :)


So the difference between Cleave and Vital Strike is basically phrasing like "As a standard action you may..."? At that point is not not an actual attack action that can be used with talents, but it's own thing.

A well... there goes hope of talent enhanced strike with Energy Blade Destruction attack. :)

And can you use multiple talents that say "when you make an attack action" or only one at a time?

Deadly hand states "your unarmed strikes gain..."
Grasping hand says "Your unarmed strikes gain..."

Whereas Axe kick and eye gouger state "When using the attack action.." which seems to be a special form of attack.

Could you use both Deadly hand and Grasping hand in same attack.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Jack of Dust wrote:
I'm really liking the Blacksmith class you've put up since it's such a woefully unexplored design space. The iconic story of a blacksmith's son who was training as an apprentice, setting out to slay a dragon is a pretty big fantasy staple. I'm glad to finally see mechanics to support that concept. :)

Thanks, I'm glad you like it! There's lots of artificer-y crafter type classes out there, but I've never felt like any of them really matched up with the whole apprentice blacksmith turns adventurer trope, so I wanted to include something that could do the crafting type stuff you'd expect of a "blacksmith" character class while also being the utter badass you'd expect from someone who learns how to beat steel into shape and then begins applying that to beating enemies out of shape.

Lord Mhoram wrote:

So the difference between Cleave and Vital Strike is basically phrasing like "As a standard action you may..."? At that point is not not an actual attack action that can be used with talents, but it's own thing.

A well... there goes hope of talent enhanced strike with Energy Blade Destruction attack. :)

And can you use multiple talents that say "when you make an attack action" or only one at a time?

Deadly hand states "your unarmed strikes gain..."
Grasping hand says "Your unarmed strikes gain..."

Whereas Axe kick and eye gouger state "When using the attack action.." which seems to be a special form of attack.

Could you use both Deadly hand and Grasping hand in same attack.

Yeah, Deadly Hand and Grasping Hand stack together. Since they don't specify that you have to do anything for them to work, they're permanent adjustments to the indicated weapon (your unarmed strike).

Currently, anything that is simply a rider when using the attack action can be stacked together; that's kind of the payoff for you using attack actions instead of getting to full attack. Attacks of opportunity triggering off an attack action can only be used one at a time though; as standard in core, any given action can only provoke one AoO.


Thanks. I thought I got the intent of the language.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So, remember how I said the Athleticism sphere does stuff I was making a homebrew class to do for months now? Well. I'm purchasing an extra-powerful tin-foil hat because the Striker class with Athleticism is literally it. The terminology is different, and the flavor of Striker is less specific, but I swear that I've never been more convinced of telepathy than I am now.


Just say "great minds think alike" and leave it at that. XD


Another rules wording check.

In athletics quite a few of teh abilities are "while you have martial focus in athletics", in boxing is states "as long as your have martial focus".

Am I correct to read that the boxing abilities that have that wording are just looking for martial focus, not that the focus has to be in boxing?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Lord Mhoram wrote:

Another rules wording check.

In athletics quite a few of teh abilities are "while you have martial focus in athletics", in boxing is states "as long as your have martial focus".

Am I correct to read that the boxing abilities that have that wording are just looking for martial focus, not that the focus has to be in boxing?

Correct.


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Ssalarn wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:

Another rules wording check.

In athletics quite a few of teh abilities are "while you have martial focus in athletics", in boxing is states "as long as your have martial focus".

Am I correct to read that the boxing abilities that have that wording are just looking for martial focus, not that the focus has to be in boxing?

Correct.

Wohoo! I'm getting this.

Normally I would read the book to double check, but this being a preview, I keep bugging you. I expect clear rules language given the talent working on this, so double checking stuff.

My wife keeps giving me odd looks as I sit here and study the preview material and make gleeful little laughs to myself.


I was checking for this preview all day, and it was definitely worth the wait.

The bits about the unarmed spheres making your damage dice a little better without cutting in on the monk was neat, and I liked the setup for buying into martial training. It'll certainly be fun to play around with.

The Boxing Sphere's a very interesting one, that I think will open up some very original fighting styles. It's not personally my thing, but I do imagine Boxers and ranged NPCs with Overwatch Style being amusingly tricky encounters for PCs getting a bit too big for their boots.

I really LOVED Open Hand Style, it seems so well put-together for bringing across a martial arts master. Dancing around and slinging your gormless opponents from one maneuver to the next before Snapping off some Axe Kicks is gonna HURT.

The Blacksmith is a very interesting class, and I am interested by the Striker, too. Kind of a mix of the gunslinger and the monk. Blacksmith is probably my favorite so far, though, those insights and abilities are super-flavorful and very mechanically useful.

Silver Crusade

LuniasM wrote:
So, remember how I said the Athleticism sphere does stuff I was making a homebrew class to do for months now? Well. I'm purchasing an extra-powerful tin-foil hat because the Striker class with Athleticism is literally it. The terminology is different, and the flavor of Striker is less specific, but I swear that I've never been more convinced of telepathy than I am now.

The striker is the monk/barbarian styled class with some fun resource management, but I'm glad it so aptly invaded your thoughts and put it on paper.


I'm thinking of trying a guardian/boxer, maybe a striker, seems a fun thing to do.


I'm looking forward to the 'Scholar' Ssalarn hinted at earlier. This is shaping up to be an amazing book and every sphere previewed so far looks awesome.


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Wraithguard wrote:
I'm looking forward to the 'Scholar' Ssalarn hinted at earlier.

Ditto


N. Jolly wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
So, remember how I said the Athleticism sphere does stuff I was making a homebrew class to do for months now? Well. I'm purchasing an extra-powerful tin-foil hat because the Striker class with Athleticism is literally it. The terminology is different, and the flavor of Striker is less specific, but I swear that I've never been more convinced of telepathy than I am now.

The striker is the monk/barbarian styled class with some fun resource management, but I'm glad it so aptly invaded your thoughts and put it on paper.

Yeah.

I saw "Tension" and thought of DQ games, then saw "Offensive Pressure" and "Flash Step" and thought Bleach. :)

I like to play offensive oriented martial artists. Monks never could quite do that for me. I can't wait to play a Striker.


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jedi8187 wrote:
I'm thinking of trying a guardian/boxer, maybe a striker, seems a fun thing to do.

yeah, the Challenge/Counter punch interaction looks awesome.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Blackwaltzomega wrote:
***Blacksmith is probably my favorite so far, though, those insights and abilities are super-flavorful and very mechanically useful.

Thanks! Blacksmith is one of my babies, and probably my favorite (though the Scholar is a ridiculously close second).

Wraithguard wrote:
I'm looking forward to the 'Scholar' Ssalarn hinted at earlier. This is shaping up to be an amazing book and every sphere previewed so far looks awesome.

I'm glad you're digging it! I can't make any promises, but I'll see if maybe the Scholar can't make it into the next preview along with the Trap and Scout spheres. Again, no promises, but I'll do my part to try and make that happen.

Lord Mhoram wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
I'm thinking of trying a guardian/boxer, maybe a striker, seems a fun thing to do.
yeah, the Challenge/Counter punch interaction looks awesome.

Guardian/Boxer is a super nice set of combo spheres; one of my first playtest characters was a Blacksmith with Guardian and Boxer who mixed up hammer swings and heavy punches while protecting the group. Striker definitely takes boxing up a notch in a way the Blacksmith doesn't though, so I expect for most players that class will be a much more common chassis for combining those spheres.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
N. Jolly wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
So, remember how I said the Athleticism sphere does stuff I was making a homebrew class to do for months now? Well. I'm purchasing an extra-powerful tin-foil hat because the Striker class with Athleticism is literally it. The terminology is different, and the flavor of Striker is less specific, but I swear that I've never been more convinced of telepathy than I am now.

The striker is the monk/barbarian styled class with some fun resource management, but I'm glad it so aptly invaded your thoughts and put it on paper.

Good thing you did, too, because I'm pretty sure I failed my Inspired Writing save on that one (see my profile). Basically, mine's called Runner and is themed off speed and movement, like some kinda Monk/Rogue hybrid. It's the Tension feature that caught my eye the most, I had a very similar idea with a feature called Flow. Needless to say you've got me hooked!

Silver Crusade

LuniasM wrote:
Good thing you did, too, because I'm pretty sure I failed my Inspired Writing save on that one (see my profile). Basically, mine's called Runner and is themed off speed and movement, like some kinda Monk/Rogue hybrid. It's the Tension feature that caught my eye the most, I had a very similar idea with a feature called Flow. Needless to say you've got me hooked!

I was actually told that the Henshin Hero from LRGG has a similar feature; I think it's something that's common enough from a design standpoint that it just sort of makes sense, so I'm not shocked you were tooling around with something similar. Really, the biggest issue for me is balancing how much tension one can gain during a round.


Questions that I probably just missed the answer to.

How many tension techniques can a striker activate for say a single attack action? Specifically there are two techniques that both provide additional attacks when making an attack action. The one is a free to give 2 more and the other is a swift to give 2 more. If you had the tension could you burn to get 4 additional attacks?

Also, the striker doesn't seem to have many abilities that synchronize with counter punches even though they are given that for free?

With the blacksmith he gains siege proficiency with the siege master talent, but doesn't gain shield proficiency with the shield master talent. Is that intentional?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I REQUEST TOWER SHIELD BSMASHING.

Liberty's Edge

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Lord Mhoram wrote:

So the difference between Cleave and Vital Strike is basically phrasing like "As a standard action you may..."? At that point is not not an actual attack action that can be used with talents, but it's own thing.

A well... there goes hope of talent enhanced strike with Energy Blade Destruction attack. :)

Improved energy blade from the destroyer's handbook has you covered. Swift action activation to apply to your next attack.

Rysky wrote:
I REQUEST TOWER SHIELD BSMASHING.

Yeah, that is in the current draft.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Stack wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I REQUEST TOWER SHIELD BSMASHING.
Yeah, that is in the current draft.

Thankies ^w^


Stack wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:

So the difference between Cleave and Vital Strike is basically phrasing like "As a standard action you may..."? At that point is not not an actual attack action that can be used with talents, but it's own thing.

A well... there goes hope of talent enhanced strike with Energy Blade Destruction attack. :)

Improved energy blade from the destroyer's handbook has you covered. Swift action activation to apply to your next attack.

Thanks. I need to pay more attention to the handbooks.


can athletics sphere can be used along with warp sphere were we martially focus to warp longer direction as standard action on warp sphere( train your body to warp longer with out needing to pay spell point)


Is there going to be part of the Monster Conversion section talking about how to apply non-humanoid bodyparts to spheres like Boxing and Open Hand that talk about using the humanoid body?


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Is there going to be part of the Monster Conversion section talking about how to apply non-humanoid bodyparts to spheres like Boxing and Open Hand that talk about using the humanoid body?

cat using joint lock on wizard know i must see this?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Will there be any new weapons and/or equipment?

Liberty's Edge

Rysky wrote:
Will there be any new weapons and/or equipment?

Pathfinder already a large number of weapons, so if we add any they would have to be pretty unique. There will be some items.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
N. Jolly wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Good thing you did, too, because I'm pretty sure I failed my Inspired Writing save on that one (see my profile). Basically, mine's called Runner and is themed off speed and movement, like some kinda Monk/Rogue hybrid. It's the Tension feature that caught my eye the most, I had a very similar idea with a feature called Flow. Needless to say you've got me hooked!
I was actually told that the Henshin Hero from LRGG has a similar feature; I think it's something that's common enough from a design standpoint that it just sort of makes sense, so I'm not shocked you were tooling around with something similar. Really, the biggest issue for me is balancing how much tension one can gain during a round.

I... actually don't know what that is. As much as I enjoy RPGs I am criminally inexperienced with tabletop outside Pathfinder. I totally agree on the Tension balancing though - hopefully playtesting will reveal any potential issues. I for one am interested in seeing the rest of this book!


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LuniasM wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
Good thing you did, too, because I'm pretty sure I failed my Inspired Writing save on that one (see my profile). Basically, mine's called Runner and is themed off speed and movement, like some kinda Monk/Rogue hybrid. It's the Tension feature that caught my eye the most, I had a very similar idea with a feature called Flow. Needless to say you've got me hooked!
I was actually told that the Henshin Hero from LRGG has a similar feature; I think it's something that's common enough from a design standpoint that it just sort of makes sense, so I'm not shocked you were tooling around with something similar. Really, the biggest issue for me is balancing how much tension one can gain during a round.
I... actually don't know what that is. As much as I enjoy RPGs I am criminally inexperienced with tabletop outside Pathfinder. I totally agree on the Tension balancing though - hopefully playtesting will reveal any potential issues. I for one am interested in seeing the rest of this book!

LRGG is Little Red Goblin Games, another third party publisher for Pathfinder (amongst other things); the Henshin Hero appears in Gonzo 2.


The Henshin Hero isn't actually outside of Pathfinder - it's just outside of official material. XD It's a class from Gonzo 2, self-described as "the weirdest book in the game" and basically a ton of ideas and genres mixed together for the fun of it. XD To quote Endzeitgeist's review,

Quote:
These guys have a trinket à la Power Rangers that allows them to assume a special form a limited amount of rounds per day; while thus transformed, they gain tension points for passing rounds and defeated foes. These points act as a resource to power special tricks, including enhancers to the bonus damage-dealing finishers.

Edit: And Luthorne ninja'd me. XD

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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J4RH34D wrote:

***

With the blacksmith he gains siege proficiency with the siege master talent, but doesn't gain shield proficiency with the shield master talent. Is that intentional?

Jolly did all the Striker stuff so I don't have answers to your first two questions right now, but on the Blacksmith-

It was really more that the Shieldsmith and Master Shieldsmith abilities already include most of the benefits that proficiency gives you and then some, so I didn't think to include a proficiency line. I'll add it in so there's more synergy with existing shield feats.


I kind of want to build a Dwarf Blacksmith to see what it would look like. But I think I would prefer for the dwarf to pick up heavy armor from the Equipment Sphere, defensive abilities from the Shield Sphere, and use a weapon based sphere for attacks. (so all spheres that haven't been previewed yet).

Shieldsmith and Master Shieldsmith would be used to gain basically a free shield bash when performing a full attack. Between Sharpen Weapons, Penetrating Blows, and Practiced Power I think attack and damage might be good enough even with a 1h weapon and slightly subpar strength.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lirya wrote:
I kind of want to build a Dwarf Blacksmith to see what it would look like.

GM: "Okay, so what race did you pick?"

Player: "Dwarf."

GM: "And class?"

Player: "Also Dwarf."

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

One of my players built a Blacksmith with the Sniper sphere and the talent to sunder at range; it was actually kind of entertaining to have to deal with having an orc berzerker's spear explode before it even got in attack range.

Is everyone digging the Maintenances? Since the Blacksmith can choose from any one of them to perform each night, I wanted them to be varied and useful as party buffs without being too good since they're always on and with enough to cover a broad array of adventuring scenarios.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm liking em :3

Speaking and sniping and range, will there be specialized archetypes for for the Blacksmith, say like Fletcher for archery based stuff?


Armor Maintenance and Sharpen Weapons are probably the go to effects, especially if you have 1-2 armor wearing and weapon wielding allies.

The rest are really good if you have knowledge of specific threats in advance (say, Polish is amazing if you are going Beholder hunting).

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Rysky wrote:

I'm liking em :3

Speaking and sniping and range, will there be specialized archetypes for for the Blacksmith, say like Fletcher for archery based stuff?

Very likely, yes. We've only kind of just started on the archetypes since they were stretch goal material we weren't sure we'd be using originally, so most archetypes are in the planning or early sketch phase right now, but a more ranged focused Blacksmith archetype is certainly something I've been mulling over.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ssalarn wrote:
Rysky wrote:

I'm liking em :3

Speaking and sniping and range, will there be specialized archetypes for for the Blacksmith, say like Fletcher for archery based stuff?

Very likely, yes. We've only kind of just started on the archetypes since they were stretch goal material we weren't sure we'd be using originally, so most archetypes are in the planning or early sketch phase right now, but a more ranged focused Blacksmith archetype is certainly something I've been mulling over.

Sweet!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Lirya wrote:

Armor Maintenance and Sharpen Weapons are probably the go to effects, especially if you have 1-2 armor wearing and weapon wielding allies.

The rest are really good if you have knowledge of specific threats in advance (say, Polish is amazing if you are going Beholder hunting).

Awesome :)

I kind of figured Armor Maintenance and Sharpen Weapons would be the go tos since those are things that are generally always going to be useful, and I tried to make the others things you would really want for the situations where they're relevant.

Rysky wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Rysky wrote:

I'm liking em :3

Speaking and sniping and range, will there be specialized archetypes for for the Blacksmith, say like Fletcher for archery based stuff?

Very likely, yes. We've only kind of just started on the archetypes since they were stretch goal material we weren't sure we'd be using originally, so most archetypes are in the planning or early sketch phase right now, but a more ranged focused Blacksmith archetype is certainly something I've been mulling over.
Sweet!

I will say though, I was leaning more towards "Machinist" than "Fletcher". I kind of pictured a ranged blacksmith as an individual who likes building big ass crossbows, muskets, or even siege engines and then making those easier and more efficient to use. It's a little ridiculous, but I like picturing it in my head as a dwarf who starts by adding a hair trigger and a reloading mechanism to his heavy crossbow, and by 20th level is driving around in an adamantine steam powered ballista that uses the force of its own shots to auto load the next bolt.


Ssalarn wrote:


Rysky wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Rysky wrote:

I'm liking em :3

Speaking and sniping and range, will there be specialized archetypes for for the Blacksmith, say like Fletcher for archery based stuff?

Very likely, yes. We've only kind of just started on the archetypes since they were stretch goal material we weren't sure we'd be using originally, so most archetypes are in the planning or early sketch phase right now, but a more ranged focused Blacksmith archetype is certainly something I've been mulling over.
Sweet!
I will say though, I was leaning more towards "Machinist" than "Fletcher". I kind of pictured a ranged blacksmith as an individual who likes building big ass crossbows, muskets, or even siege engines and then making those easier and more efficient to use. It's a little ridiculous, but I like picturing it in my head as a dwarf who starts by adding a hair trigger and a reloading mechanism to his heavy crossbow, and by 20th level is driving around in an adamantine steam powered ballista that uses the force of its own shots to auto load the next bolt.

Yes to all of this.

I do want to give the blaksmith a try, not sure where I want to go with it, but it's right up my alley as a support based martial tough guy. If we get the cross sphere archetype book I'm hoping to see a blacksmith with some destruction (fire) sphere abilities.

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