[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Combat Kickstarter


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Ssalarn wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:

I love unarmed combat, and I saw Athletics and immediately start thinking of a half SoP half SoM monk for pure Wujia. Or Matrix kind of stuff.

One other question - in the document it states "Armigers are considered Non-Combatants" is that a typo, or a specific keywords that isn't explained.

"Non-Combatant" is the equivalent of SoP's "Low Caster", essentially the martial equivalent of a 4 level spellcaster. Armigers get a lower base progression than would typically be normal for a full BAB character, due to all the bonus talents they can key to their weapons.

That is what I was thinking it might be the "specific keyword". :)


Ssalarn, was the Armiger influenced at all by the Final Fantasy XV "Armiger Chain"?

Please tell me I'm not going crazy.


I'd love to see that boxing preview as that's one I'm really looking forward to.
I was pleasantly surprised with the Athletic sphere, I was prepared to look past it, and still might as it's not fully my style, but it does open up some really cool things and might be worth dabbling in for some of my characters. I may have missed it, but could there be a talent for replacing the movement for a charge with a leap?

The armiger is again something not quite my style, but I'm still glad it exists.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Wraithguard wrote:

Ssalarn, was the Armiger influenced at all by the Final Fantasy XV "Armiger Chain"?

Please tell me I'm not going crazy.

Maybe a little bit.


jedi8187 wrote:
I'd love to see that boxing preview as that's one I'm really looking forward to.

I'm building a pugilist out of a gestalt fighter/kineticist right now for a future game. Something like Vegeta from DBZ. Boxing would seem to be right up this character's alley.


Please keep size related things relative, as in "one size larger than you or larger" instead of "large or larger"

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

miscdebris wrote:
Please keep size related things relative, as in "one size larger than you or larger" instead of "large or larger"

I think that we mostly have, though there's 4 designers working on a lot of material so it's not impossible something could squeak through and make it out into a preview or playtest product. Was this based on something you noticed in the preview document, or just a general admonition?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

COMMENT ON ALL THE THINGS!


Very important question that I might have missed being asked already: Is the fastball special possible using this system?

For those who don't know the fastball special is a move from X-Men comics is where strong person (usually Colossus) throws small scrappy fighter person (usually Wolverine) at an enemy/vehicle/what have you.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
jedi8187 wrote:

Very important question that I might have missed being asked already: Is the fastball special possible using this system?

For those who don't know the fastball special is a move from X-Men comics is where strong person (usually Colossus) throws small scrappy fighter person (usually Wolverine) at an enemy/vehicle/what have you.

Yes, let this be a thing!

That and/or having someone crouched on a two-hander as you swing it and send them flying.

Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

OOOOOOOO and riding/hopping off arrows/bolts/ballista spears! I mean heck, we already have the Deflect/Catch/Redirect Arrow line of abilties, and those work with any missiles, including bullets.


Rysky wrote:


Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

The "Unwilling Boost" talent in the preview document does that fairly well, I thought.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

jedi8187 wrote:

Very important question that I might have missed being asked already: Is the fastball special possible using this system?

For those who don't know the fastball special is a move from X-Men comics is where strong person (usually Colossus) throws small scrappy fighter person (usually Wolverine) at an enemy/vehicle/what have you.

There's a couple things in that ballpark, but I don't know if there's specifically a fastball special... yet.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:


Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

The "Unwilling Boost" talent in the preview document does that fairly well, I thought.

Unwilling Boost just knocks you away I thought.

I meant like for size Gargantuan and up when they stab at you you hop on the blade/spear/whatever adn run to them. Or simply ride it as they pull their arm back.


Rysky wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:


Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

The "Unwilling Boost" talent in the preview document does that fairly well, I thought.

Unwilling Boost just knocks you away I thought.

I meant like for size Gargantuan and up when they stab at you you hop on the blade/spear/whatever adn run to them. Or simply ride it as they pull their arm back.

It lets you jump, but I was thinking following that with Scale Foe - and the visual effect was jumping on the blade and running up it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:


Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

The "Unwilling Boost" talent in the preview document does that fairly well, I thought.

Unwilling Boost just knocks you away I thought.

I meant like for size Gargantuan and up when they stab at you you hop on the blade/spear/whatever adn run to them. Or simply ride it as they pull their arm back.

It lets you jump, but I was thinking following that with Scale Foe - and the visual effect was jumping on the blade and running up it.

Scale Foe is climbing, so different effect and visual. That and it's Scale Foe, not Scale Weapon :3


Rysky wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Rysky wrote:


Blade Running would be cool for doing against larger opponents.

The "Unwilling Boost" talent in the preview document does that fairly well, I thought.

Unwilling Boost just knocks you away I thought.

I meant like for size Gargantuan and up when they stab at you you hop on the blade/spear/whatever adn run to them. Or simply ride it as they pull their arm back.

It lets you jump, but I was thinking following that with Scale Foe - and the visual effect was jumping on the blade and running up it.
Scale Foe is climbing, so different effect and visual. That and it's Scale Foe, not Scale Weapon :3

lol.

Our group plays a lot of HERO, so we tend to flavor things however we like when we play other games too. :)


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I asked about a fastball special too...

Definitely hoping to see stuff like that.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Luthorne wrote:

I asked about a fastball special too...

Definitely hoping to see stuff like that.

I'm mostly trying to decide where to put it. There's a wrestling talent that lets you wield a grappled creature like a weapon, but I'm not sure if Wrestling is quite the right place for a fastball special. Maybe it is though. I could also see Boxing having a "launch punch", and the necessary mechanics would work better in Boxing since boxing leans on readied actions a lot more.... There's a few places it could work.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ssalarn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:

I asked about a fastball special too...

Definitely hoping to see stuff like that.

I'm mostly trying to decide where to put it. There's a wrestling talent that lets you wield a grappled creature like a weapon, but I'm not sure if Wrestling is quite the right place for a fastball special. Maybe it is though. I could also see Boxing having a "launch punch", and the necessary mechanics would work better in Boxing since boxing leans on readied actions a lot more.... There's a few places it could work.

Would be amusing if it went into whatever sphere specializes in throwing weapons, presuming there is one. You could also have a variant that goes into Athletics, where you can allow your ally to give you a boost for your Acrobatics check to jump in, with some synergy if you both parties (the launcher and the launchee) both have the respective talents?


Ssalarn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:

I asked about a fastball special too...

Definitely hoping to see stuff like that.

I'm mostly trying to decide where to put it. There's a wrestling talent that lets you wield a grappled creature like a weapon, but I'm not sure if Wrestling is quite the right place for a fastball special. Maybe it is though. I could also see Boxing having a "launch punch", and the necessary mechanics would work better in Boxing since boxing leans on readied actions a lot more.... There's a few places it could work.

Maybe you could have a caveat for the unwilling assist talent to specifically allow a willing assist.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Luthorne wrote:


Would be amusing if it went into whatever sphere specializes in throwing weapons, presuming there is one. You could also have a variant that goes into Athletics, where you can allow your ally to give you a boost for your Acrobatics check to jump in, with some synergy if you both parties (the launcher and the launchee) both have the respective talents?

Actually, right now someone with the Wrestling and Thrower spheres can do it; the wrestling talent allows you to treat a grappled creature as a melee weapon, Thrower talents allow you to throw melee weapons without penalty with a range increment of 10 ft. I'd kind of like to add something a little more intuitive though; the design team's kicking it around as we speak.

Bardarok wrote:


Maybe you could have a caveat for the unwilling assist talent to specifically allow a willing assist.

We were actually just discussing that as well.


While I'm more active on GiantITP, I just wanted to mention here how much I love this product. I can't back it, as I avoid e-business whenever possible, but rest assured I will be there to buy it as soon as it comes out, day 1 if possible.

Minor nitpick though: Why did you start with the Armiger in your previews? If I was to introduce someone to SoP who knew nothing about it, I'd start with the Mageknight and say, the Destruction and Warp spheres; simple-to-understand mechanics to ease them into the complexities of the system.

But whatever. I look forward to this with baited breath.


Ssalarn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:


Would be amusing if it went into whatever sphere specializes in throwing weapons, presuming there is one. You could also have a variant that goes into Athletics, where you can allow your ally to give you a boost for your Acrobatics check to jump in, with some synergy if you both parties (the launcher and the launchee) both have the respective talents?

Actually, right now someone with the Wrestling and Thrower spheres can do it; the wrestling talent allows you to treat a grappled creature as a melee weapon, Thrower talents allow you to throw melee weapons without penalty with a range increment of 10 ft. I'd kind of like to add something a little more intuitive though; the design team's kicking it around as we speak.

Bardarok wrote:


Maybe you could have a caveat for the unwilling assist talent to specifically allow a willing assist.
We were actually just discussing that as well.

I think Unwilling Assist is what triggered the idea in my head. It's just a move the comes up constantly in every game I've played (and not always by me), and is notoriously vague in rules. I think I like it more as a talent for the thrower rather than the throwee though, since the move is more on the strong guys end usually. Although a teamwork talent style thing may be appropriate. No matter what I'm glad to know it's being thought on.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Brendan Eichler wrote:

While I'm more active on GiantITP, I just wanted to mention here how much I love this product. I can't back it, as I avoid e-business whenever possible, but rest assured I will be there to buy it as soon as it comes out, day 1 if possible.

Minor nitpick though: Why did you start with the Armiger in your previews? If I was to introduce someone to SoP who knew nothing about it, I'd start with the Mageknight and say, the Destruction and Warp spheres; simple-to-understand mechanics to ease them into the complexities of the system.

But whatever. I look forward to this with baited breath.

A big part of Spheres of Might's premise is "making martials cool", and we all agreed that the Armiger, while a little more complicated than most of the other classes, had serious cool factor. We also figured that showcasing him alongside a mobility sphere and an offensive sphere would probably best serve to get the audience's juices flowing, as it were.


Ssalarn wrote:
miscdebris wrote:
Please keep size related things relative, as in "one size larger than you or larger" instead of "large or larger"
I think that we mostly have, though there's 4 designers working on a lot of material so it's not impossible something could squeak through and make it out into a preview or playtest product. Was this based on something you noticed in the preview document, or just a general admonition?

That was me noticing that you are doing that, and me asking that you keep doing that.

It's a petpeeve of mine in Pathfinder.


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Ssalarn wrote:
A big part of Spheres of Might's premise is "making martials cool", and we all agreed that the Armiger, while a little more complicated than most of the other classes, had serious cool factor. We also figured that showcasing him alongside a mobility sphere and an offensive sphere would probably best serve to get the audience's juices flowing, as it were.

I've actually started mentally figuring out my DD Assassin with that Armiger class. The assassin had access to daggers, short bows, and sword & shield as their weapon categories, so being able to quickly swap between them is a huge advantage that the Armiger fulfills exceptionally. The other thing is that there are some talents that wouldn't be nearly as useful with one weapon set as they would with another, something else the Armiger handles very well with their bonds.

Excellent choice in preview material.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I can now officially say that we have both air juggling...kinda as well as the ability to uppercut an ally into the air to allow them to come down like a hammer.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Wraithguard wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
A big part of Spheres of Might's premise is "making martials cool", and we all agreed that the Armiger, while a little more complicated than most of the other classes, had serious cool factor. We also figured that showcasing him alongside a mobility sphere and an offensive sphere would probably best serve to get the audience's juices flowing, as it were.

I've actually started mentally figuring out my DD Assassin with that Armiger class. The assassin had access to daggers, short bows, and sword & shield as their weapon categories, so being able to quickly swap between them is a huge advantage that the Armiger fulfills exceptionally. The other thing is that there are some talents that wouldn't be nearly as useful with one weapon set as they would with another, something else the Armiger handles very well with their bonds.

Excellent choice in preview material.

We're all glad you think so!


You guys and Necromancers of the Northwest are pretty much tied for "best RPG companies" in my book.

Yes that includes Paizo.

If you make a book about making alchemy better at all levels of play, you can probably beat them =P


N. Jolly wrote:
I can now officially say that we have both air juggling...kinda as well as the ability to uppercut an ally into the air to allow them to come down like a hammer.

So now I can make Tekken characters in SoM. Nice.


Pretty new to Googledocs, so I'll post feedback here.

I think it'd be cool if a Dedicated Athlete could activate their Martial Focus as part of the Withdraw action. For those times when you really need to GTFO.


More feedback.

There are a lot of new effects that are FAEWINYTs, or "free action even when it's not your turn." Two pieces of feedback here.

One, perhaps they need their own name. Free-immediate?

Two, there seems to be a lot of them. And because of that, they might risk slowing a combat round down even more than attack of opportunity already do - don't get me wrong, I love AoOs! - but you may want to consider economizing them.

Like, a Mighty Martial can take one FAEWINYT (or free-immediate action) per round at 1st level, plus one at BAB 6, 11, and 16.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

rainzax wrote:

Pretty new to Googledocs, so I'll post feedback here.

I think it'd be cool if a Dedicated Athlete could activate their Martial Focus as part of the Withdraw action. For those times when you really need to GTFO.

Ooh, I like that! Seems like it could be a good talent, maybe with a little bit of an extra rider on it to make it just a smidge more sexy as something to spend a talent on.

rainzax wrote:

More feedback.

There are a lot of new effects that are FAEWINYTs, or "free action even when it's not your turn." Two pieces of feedback here.

One, perhaps they need their own name. Free-immediate?

Two, there seems to be a lot of them. And because of that, they might risk slowing a combat round down even more than attack of opportunity already do - don't get me wrong, I love AoOs! - but you may want to consider economizing them.

Like, a Mighty Martial can take one FAEWINYT (or free-immediate action) per round at 1st level, plus one at BAB 6, 11, and 16.

Not a terrible idea at all (I also like the Celtic sounding acronym). There's still a little fluidity in some of the current action designations as we continue in-house playtesting and release more preview and playtest materials, so we probably won't change anything just yet, but that doesn't mean we're not taking that suggestion very seriously; we've just got to get a little bit farther along in fine-tuning so the action costs are more firmly "set" before we start looking at adding any additional codifications and restrictions.


Ssalarn wrote:
rainzax wrote:
I think it'd be cool if a Dedicated Athlete could activate their Martial Focus as part of the Withdraw action. For those times when you really need to GTFO.
Ooh, I like that! Seems like it could be a good talent, maybe with a little bit of an extra rider on it to make it just a smidge more sexy as something to spend a talent on.

I was thinking it'd bake right into the Athletics sphere. Because, primarily, the sphere is about movement in several modes - climbing, jumping, running, and swimming - and the Withdraw action is essentially about tactical movement through those modes. So like:

Spoiler:
Athletics Sphere

Kinesthetic Focus
While you are currently dedicated to this sphere, you may achieve martial focus as part of using the withdraw action.

Admittedly, I'm having a hard time differentiating linguistically between "dedicated focus + focus expended" and "dedicated focus + focus unexpended" - the language is incredibly tricky to convey and perhaps needs some clean up...

Athletics Training
When a character gains the Athletics sphere, he chooses and gains one of the following training packages, with its included abilities. A character may gain the Expanded Training talent to gain additional packages.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

rainzax wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
rainzax wrote:
I think it'd be cool if a Dedicated Athlete could activate their Martial Focus as part of the Withdraw action. For those times when you really need to GTFO.
Ooh, I like that! Seems like it could be a good talent, maybe with a little bit of an extra rider on it to make it just a smidge more sexy as something to spend a talent on.
I was thinking it'd bake right into the Athletics sphere. Because, primarily, the sphere is about movement in several modes - climbing, jumping, running, and swimming - and the Withdraw action is essentially about tactical movement through those modes. So like:** spoiler omitted **

We have officially adopted this idea and are working it into the Athletics sphere.


Something I would like to see in this book are some talents to interact with spells that martials normally can't interact with at all.

My biggest annoyance and example is the spell "alarm" which seems relatively innocuous until you realize that it's impossible to detect without spamming detect magic, impossible to inactivate without a dispel, and impossible to pass through without it triggering except through teleportation.

A level 20 Rogue cannot bypass a level one Bard's alarm.

Something simple in the Scout Sphere could be a little "spidey sense" when you're coming close to magical auras or something of the like. Maybe another sphere could allow a character to dispel area spells using disable device and several rounds.

Any other strange stuff in Pathfinder such as spells or subsystems you guys wish your character could interact with?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Reviewman wrote:


Something simple in the Scout Sphere could be a little "spidey sense" when you're coming close to magical auras or something of the like. Maybe another sphere could allow a character to dispel area spells using disable device and several rounds.

Dude, I dig that. A lot. Writing some ideas up now.


Reviewman wrote:
Any other strange stuff in Pathfinder such as spells or subsystems you guys wish your character could interact with?

This is a good idea. Perhaps a list of problematic spells that detract from interactivity (to start)?

Wayfinders

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've been lurking since this was announced, but I absolutely love every bit of this. I absolutely love the fact that Athletics has its own dedicated sphere, I always thought "stand still and full attack" and "combat with boring designs" were pretty closely linked.

I'd like to see something for Athletics (and everything else TBH) for actually making use of random scenery scattered about. Something like...

New Athletic Training Package?:
Obstacle: When you take one or more move actions on your turn, you can drag, topple, or spin one object you pass next to during your movement. This item can weigh no more than your maximum weight for a light load, but you don't need to roll.

If you drag it, it follows behind you while remaining in your reach, until you choose to let go.

If you topple it, it falls "prone" (insomuch as an object can be prone) into an adjacent space, potentially providing or removing cover.

If you spin it, then creatures adjacent to it cannot make attacks of opportunity against you for the move action for which you use this ability.

If you have dedicated martial focus to the Athletics sphere, you can affect an object of up to your maximum weight for a medium load.

Basically, an incentive for GMs to make fun and interesting battlefields and for players to make the most of them. Not sure if it's properly balanced, but I thought it'd be cool.


Also, for all those grumpy grognards out there, you may consider a Fighter feat chain (or addendum) akin to the Disruptive chain for "interrupting your Puny Mighty Martial's Fragile Focus" to force "concentration checks" when they try to Expend Focus...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
N. Jolly wrote:
I can now officially say that we have both air juggling...kinda as well as the ability to uppercut an ally into the air to allow them to come down like a hammer.

SQQQQQQUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Thank you!

*hugs the Jolly one*


I do like uppercutting for falling hammers.

Also going off that interacting spell idea: Maybe and advanced talent or something to allow spell sundering? I cut your fire ball in half for no damage type thing, with a successful roll of course.


jedi8187 wrote:

I do like uppercutting for falling hammers.

Also going off that interacting spell idea: Maybe and advanced talent or something to allow spell sundering? I cut your fire ball in half for no damage type thing, with a successful roll of course.

actually how about on failed save you cut the fireball instead on successful save you throw the fireball back to caster itself

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
khadgar567 wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:

I do like uppercutting for falling hammers.

Also going off that interacting spell idea: Maybe and advanced talent or something to allow spell sundering? I cut your fire ball in half for no damage type thing, with a successful roll of course.

actually how about on failed save you cut the fireball instead on successful save you throw the fireball back to caster itself

Hmm...


I doubt this is the right time for this suggestion, but how about a special weapon ability that allows the wielder to use the Sphere and talents stored inside the weapon? Similar to how staves in SoP work. If you aren't wielding the weapon, you don't get that Sphere. This is what the Armiger already does, essentially, with his bonded weapons. But allow that ability to be purchasable. I don't know if Path of War does it (I know this isn't a ToB-type book), but ToB had wondrous items that would hold a single maneuver.

khadgar567 wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:

I do like uppercutting for falling hammers.

Also going off that interacting spell idea: Maybe and advanced talent or something to allow spell sundering? I cut your fire ball in half for no damage type thing, with a successful roll of course.

actually how about on failed save you cut the fireball instead on successful save you throw the fireball back to caster itself

A fan of the Dragonball series, I take it?


So any chance we can get something to make swimming easier? Currently the rules for swim checks are pretty horrific.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Reviewman wrote:
So any chance we can get something to make swimming easier? Currently the rules for swim checks are pretty horrific.

Yeah, there's a couple talents in Athletics already, and more on the way. There's also a Legendary Talent that let's you "swim" through things that aren't water or even necessarily liquid :)

Or did you mean something more like this?

Spheres of Might wrote:


Practiced Swimmer (swim)
You may move up to your full base land speed as a move action when succeeding on a Swim check to swim, or twice your base land speed as a full round action. In addition, you may perform the charge action while swimming, and can make attack actions without decreasing the duration for which you can hold your breath.


Ssalarn wrote:
rainzax wrote:
There are a lot of new effects that are FAEWINYTs, or "free action even when it's not your turn."
Not a terrible idea at all (I also like the Celtic sounding acronym).

I imagine it's pronounced "fay-win"


Practiced swimmer is pretty much exactly what I wanted to see actually.

One time we were fighting a Kraken and our party barbarian was very happy when it grappled him because it meant he wouldn't have to swim.


Already hyped by the martial Legendary Talents (which they really needed to compete with wuxia story protagonists), but a few more questions to the writing team before I actually pour my cash.

1. Do the new spheres have their fair share of talents that help reliably in NON-COMBAT situations? While I'm sure that will be granted as since the writers happened to be recurring martial fans around this board, I'm asking again just to be sure even more.

2. Where are the PDF perma-links (if any) based on? My copy for Sphere of Power is from DTRPG not here and just in case my electronic stash and backup of books blow up in a calamity I would like them to be consolidated somewhere...

Really though, you people really are doing a fantastic job! Thank you. I end this post with a last wishlist on hopes that at the very least similar abilities will end up in the final product...

----

(General martial fairness)
- Move up to full speed and enjoy passably scaling damage output (Vital Strike ain't enough, yeah.)
- More armor bonus that stacks with others (Why only dragons get to enjoy that nat.armor +42...)

(Wuxia stuff)
- Attacks treated as magical/epic/material/alignment/blablabla... (Qi coated swords kill anything!)
- Extension of youth and overall lifespan (No wuxia story is complete without this CLASSIC reward.)
- Mountain crushing sword swings (...I think a prior question confirmed their inclusion already...)

----

P.S. Grrr.... I really wanted this to be the 301th post here, but oh, well... I was so anxious about Question #2 and that bolded wishlist thing...

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