Ranged Investigator Build Help


Advice


So, I'm going to be playing in my first in person campaign come the new year (woot). The game is going to be a lot more RP focused than anything else I've played (I usually go for something that is badass in combat, but doesn't have a lick of out of combat ability). I'm thinking I'd like to play an investigator (assuming it meshes well with the rest of the party), particularly an empiricist.

So, character concept wise, I'm thinking that this character is extremely good at ferreting out lies and deception, but isn't actually great as a conventional Face (think Cal Lightman from Lie to Me), and is only good at bluffing due to his intelligence rather than Charisma. He's not particularly strong, but is dextrous and quick.

I think I'd like to go with ranged as his combat style, but (and I'm sure it's not optimal) I'd really like to find a way to go thrown weapons and still be a contributing party member.

So, the build I've got right now for a ranged weapon investigator(which I'm sure will be nearly completely ripped apart by the time we're done):

Character Creation
Starting level: 4
Point buy: 25 pts
Acceptable Races: Core + goblins, orcs, tieflings, and aasimars
Starting Gold: 1000 gp can be spent on any mundane or master work items. No magic items except potions, scrolls, or the equivalent, and these only if the character has the appropriate craft feat. Limit 3 per character.

CN/NG Tiefling Bolt Ace Gunslinger 1 / Empiricist Investigator
Abilities (post Racial Mods):
Str: 10 Dex: 20 Con: 12 Int: 18 Wis: 10 Cha: 8

Level Progression:
1 Bolt Ace: Weapon Focus-Repeating Heavy Xbow(Feat), Clever Wordplay-Bluff(Trait),Second Trait?
2 Investigator 1:--
3: Point-Blank Shot
4: Expanded Inspiration (Talent)
5+:Ranged Study, and Archery path feats (precise Shot, deadly aim, rapid shot, rapid reload, etc) and ... what?

Thanks for any help in advance,

-K

EDIT: Realized I forgot to mention the character creation guidelines, that has now been added.

EDIT2: Thank you for pointing out I forgot Ranged Study (which was the whole reason for taking Bolt Ace).


Bolt Ace isn't really useful unless you're going to spend 5 levels in it.

Also, i would suggest just using a shortbow, not a crossbow. Thrown weapons are really difficult to pull off, investigator doesn't get the right class features to make it work.

You're going to want to pickup the feat Ranged Study to make your Studied Strike work.

Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, eventually you may want deadly aim but since it increases damage at an attack penalty I would suggest you pick up Ranged Study first since it increases attack and damage.


Claxon wrote:

Bolt Ace isn't really useful unless you're going to spend 5 levels in it.

Also, i would suggest just using a shortbow, not a crossbow. Thrown weapons are really difficult to pull off, investigator doesn't get the right class features to make it work.

You're going to want to pickup the feat Ranged Study to make your Studied Strike work.

Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, eventually you may want deadly aim but since it increases damage at an attack penalty I would suggest you pick up Ranged Study first since it increases attack and damage.

Aye, but it gets me proficiency with all X-bows (allowing me to use that repeating heavy). Not sure what class dip I could take that would give more and still allow me to get ranged study at 5th (4th Investigator).

Suppose I could take standard gunslinger and use pistols instead (gotta be within 30 ft for Ranged Study anyways), but really Pathfinder firearms aren't great unless you're going full gunslinger IMO.


Archer Investigator
Human investigator (empiricist) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 75 (12d8+12)
Fort +8, Ref +18, Will +11 (+4 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects)
Defensive Abilities trap sense +4; Resist unfailing logic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged +2 adaptive composite shortbow +21/+21/+16 (1d6+17/×3)
Special Attacks studied combat (+6, 5 rounds), studied strike +5d6
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 12th; concentration +17)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 25, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +17; CMD 30
Feats Deadly Aim, Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Ranged Study[ACG], Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (shortbow)
Skills Diplomacy +14 (+20 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma)), Disable Device +26, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +20, Knowledge (local) +20, Knowledge (nature) +20, Knowledge (planes) +20, Knowledge (religion) +20, Perception +20, Sense Motive +20, Spellcraft +20, Use Magic Device +20; Racial Modifiers ceaseless observation
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +12), human investigator, inspiration (11/day), investigator talents (combat inspiration[ACG], mutagen[UM], quick study[ACG], sickening offensive[ACG]), keen recollection, mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 120 minutes), trapfinding +6
Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor[UC], +2 adaptive composite shortbow (+2 Str), investigator starting formula book, 150 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Armor Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
Inspiration (+1d6, 11/day) (Ex) - 0/11
Weapon Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
+12 formulas in formula book Add one extract formula from the investigator’s formula list to his formula book. This formula must be at least 1 formula level below the highest level the investigator can create.
Alchemy +12 (Su) +12 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+6)
Combat Inspiration (Ex) Applying inspiration to attacks/saves only costs 1 point.
Deadly Aim -3/+6 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Inspiration (+1d6, 11/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Mutagen This discovery gives the alchemist the mutagen class ability, as described in the Advanced Player's Guide. (This discovery exists so alchemist archetypes who have variant mutagens, such as the mindchemist, can learn how to make standard mutage
Mutagen (DC 21) (Su) Mutagen adds +4 to a physical & -2 to a mental attribute, and +2 nat. armor for 120 minutes.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Quick Study (Ex) Use studied combat as a swift action.
Ranged Study (Shortbow) Gain bonuses and can use studied combat and studied strike with chosen weapon.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Sickening Offensive (Ex) Studied strike sickens foe for 1 rd.
Studied Combat (+6, 5 rounds) (Ex) As a swift action, study foe to gain bonus to att & dam for duration or until use studied strike.
Studied Strike +5d6 (Ex) As a free action on a melee hit, end studied combat vs. foe to add precision dam.
Trap Sense +4 (Ex) +4 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +6 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Unfailing Logic +4 (Ex) +4 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects

P.S. Don't forget that the first attack made benefits from Manyshot, so if it hits it actually deals the damage twice (1d6+17).


kurohyou wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Bolt Ace isn't really useful unless you're going to spend 5 levels in it.

Also, i would suggest just using a shortbow, not a crossbow. Thrown weapons are really difficult to pull off, investigator doesn't get the right class features to make it work.

You're going to want to pickup the feat Ranged Study to make your Studied Strike work.

Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, eventually you may want deadly aim but since it increases damage at an attack penalty I would suggest you pick up Ranged Study first since it increases attack and damage.

Aye, but it gets me proficiency with all X-bows (allowing me to use that repeating heavy). Not sure what class dip I could take that would give more and still allow me to get ranged study at 5th (4th Investigator).

Suppose I could take standard gunslinger and use pistols instead (gotta be within 30 ft for Ranged Study anyways), but really Pathfinder firearms aren't great unless you're going full gunslinger IMO.

Proficiency in the repeating crossbow isn't worth it though. A shotbow or longbow is still better, with the exception of damage die. It's not worth the level dip. Honestly, you shouldn't dip at all, using crossbows is simply a bad idea from an optimization standpoint. Especially since you can't use Inpsired enhancement with them, which should be something that you pickup eventually along with the Combat Inspiration Talent (eventually). I guess ultimately my point is that crossbows are not an optimal weapon for the class. If you want to use it because flavor thats fine, but there isn't an argument for mechanics that justifies using it.

Also, it's important to note that despite the repeating crossbow reloading individual bolts as a free action, it's a full-round action to reload the case of bolts into the repeating crossbow. At level 12, this would mean not quite two rounds of attacks (5 bolts) before you have to stop and spend a full round action to reload your repeating crossbow. Or you can just use a shortbow which always reloads as a free action.


Ok, so to do ranged, you just need to bite the bullet and accept that you're going to not be able to take advantage of your studied combat until a level after you get it; guess that's not horrible in the grand scheme of things.


Investigators really don't come online before Studied Combat Anyways, and if your GM is cool you could technically retrain on of your other feats to Ranged Study when you hit level 4.

But yes, there basically is no way to do ranged studied combat until level 5 (without retraining). If allowed, retrain Rapid Shot into Ranged Study and just run with it.


sounds good, thanks for the pointers.


My archer investigator mostly goes with a single shot per round, since I didn't want to take the attack penalty for rapid shot. So, my feat progression went point blank shot, precise shot, focused shot (worth it for a high intelligence investigator), weapon focus, then ranged study. Quick study was one of my early talents. This allows the combat round of establish studied combat as a swift, move into position for focused shot, and then fire with studied combat, studied strike, point blank shot, and focused shot. If it is still alive next round, spend a point of inspiration to study the same target and repeat.


Focused Shot and only shooting one arrow a round is still pretty low damage compared to full attacking.

However, instead of Focused Shot if you also pickup Combat Stamina feat and use it with Kirin Strike you can add you're intelligence to attack and damage on all your attacks on creature's you've identified, and with your large amount of skills you should be able to identify almost every creature type.


Claxon wrote:

Archer Investigator

Human investigator (empiricist) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 75 (12d8+12)
Fort +8, Ref +18, Will +11 (+4 save vs. illusion and disbelievable effects)
Defensive Abilities trap sense +4; Resist unfailing logic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged +2 adaptive composite shortbow +21/+21/+16 (1d6+17/×3)
Special Attacks studied combat (+6, 5 rounds), studied strike +5d6
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 12th; concentration +17)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 25, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +17; CMD 30
Feats Deadly Aim, Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Ranged Study[ACG], Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (shortbow)
Skills Diplomacy +14 (+20 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma)), Disable Device +26, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +20, Knowledge (local) +20, Knowledge (nature) +20, Knowledge (planes) +20, Knowledge (religion) +20, Perception +20, Sense Motive +20, Spellcraft +20, Use Magic Device +20; Racial Modifiers ceaseless observation
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +12), human investigator, inspiration (11/day), investigator talents (combat inspiration[ACG], mutagen[UM], quick study[ACG], sickening offensive[ACG]), keen recollection, mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 120 minutes), trapfinding +6
Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor[UC], +2 adaptive composite shortbow (+2 Str), investigator starting formula book, 150 gp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Armor Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
Inspiration (+1d6, 11/day) (Ex) - 0/11
Weapon Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------...

What do y'all use to get character sheets in this format, anyway?


If you want to use guns as an investigator the steel hound archetype seems obvious. It has roughly the same effect as a one-level gunslinger dip, without the dip. The only real downside is not being able to take most other investigator archetypes.


Captain Morgan wrote:
What do y'all use to get character sheets in this format, anyway?

Hero Lab unless I'm mistaken.


kurohyou wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
What do y'all use to get character sheets in this format, anyway?
Hero Lab unless I'm mistaken.

You are correct.

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