Probably no chance of my top one making it in and I've only got three, but here goes:
1) gunchemist alchemist
2) Eldritch archer magus (yeah, I know not one of the base classes, but I'd love to see a way to do this in 2e)
3) master of many styles monk
Ok, so to do ranged, you just need to bite the bullet and accept that you're going to not be able to take advantage of your studied combat until a level after you get it; guess that's not horrible in the grand scheme of things.
Bolt Ace isn't really useful unless you're going to spend 5 levels in it.
Also, i would suggest just using a shortbow, not a crossbow. Thrown weapons are really difficult to pull off, investigator doesn't get the right class features to make it work.
You're going to want to pickup the feat Ranged Study to make your Studied Strike work.
Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, eventually you may want deadly aim but since it increases damage at an attack penalty I would suggest you pick up Ranged Study first since it increases attack and damage.
Aye, but it gets me proficiency with all X-bows (allowing me to use that repeating heavy). Not sure what class dip I could take that would give more and still allow me to get ranged study at 5th (4th Investigator).
Suppose I could take standard gunslinger and use pistols instead (gotta be within 30 ft for Ranged Study anyways), but really Pathfinder firearms aren't great unless you're going full gunslinger IMO.
So, I'm going to be playing in my first in person campaign come the new year (woot). The game is going to be a lot more RP focused than anything else I've played (I usually go for something that is badass in combat, but doesn't have a lick of out of combat ability). I'm thinking I'd like to play an investigator (assuming it meshes well with the rest of the party), particularly an empiricist.
So, character concept wise, I'm thinking that this character is extremely good at ferreting out lies and deception, but isn't actually great as a conventional Face (think Cal Lightman from Lie to Me), and is only good at bluffing due to his intelligence rather than Charisma. He's not particularly strong, but is dextrous and quick.
I think I'd like to go with ranged as his combat style, but (and I'm sure it's not optimal) I'd really like to find a way to go thrown weapons and still be a contributing party member.
So, the build I've got right now for a ranged weapon investigator(which I'm sure will be nearly completely ripped apart by the time we're done):
Character Creation
Starting level: 4
Point buy: 25 pts
Acceptable Races: Core + goblins, orcs, tieflings, and aasimars
Starting Gold: 1000 gp can be spent on any mundane or master work items. No magic items except potions, scrolls, or the equivalent, and these only if the character has the appropriate craft feat. Limit 3 per character.
I even rebuilt Ehwar Vress as Krieg. With a Timeworn Filtermask :D
Gonna rebuild Gunshy as a Mutant Human - with a tiny arm and stunted legs.. lots of hit points and the rugged mutation (DR 5/-).
Hu hu hu
Heh, I added a little extra surprise to Gunshy. He was actually pretty easy for my party to defeat since half of them had firearms of one sort or another. But I fluffed Gunshy so that he had been experimented on by Marrow and was host to a swarm of nanites that gave him a bonus of electrical damage to his attacks (alas the party scared the hell out of him before he got a hit in). When he died, the nanites (whose programming Marrow had hacked the hell out of) rose from his dead body and sought out the nearest host (in this case the paladin of Brigh that slew him) and attempted to colonize. My characters could see what was going on, but none of them had high enough knowledge(eng) to realize that it was nanites (ooc of course they knew exactly from the descriptions). The nanites didn't seem to do anything to the paladin Jonos at first, but when the android cleric used channel energy to help the party heal up from the massive Smilers battle Jonos had an unanticipated reaction to the healing energy, it caused him to receive 4 points of Con damage, instead of healing him. He felt sick and walked away from the repeated healings the cleric was doing. The party slept the night in Marrow's quarters and Jonos woke to find that he felt himself to be extremely strong (+6 Strength). The party reasoned that his odd reaction to the healing and his increased strength were both from the nanites, but they don't actually know what is going on.
Under the hood this is what is happening:
The nanites have colonized Jonos (it takes them 1d4 hours to colonize a new host), and seek to make him the best host/home he can be for them by increasing his best aspects (in this case, his strength was his highest ability score) by +2 for each hour they spend colonizing. Additionally, they zealously guard their new home from interference and anything ingested beyond food/drink or any healing aside from natural healing causes them to fight against the effect (rolling on the pharmaceutical glitches table with a -24 penalty; this gives the host only a 1% chance of receiving unadulterated healing). When the host dies or becomes unconscious, the nanites rise up looking for a new home, and attempt the colonize the nearest creature (preferring the one that slew their previous host if possible) within 60 ft. and will continually try to colonize anyone within range (they can only move a total of 60 ft before the swarm collapses form lack of energy) until they have exhausted their energy reserves.
hmmm, not sure about using the summoner as a scaffold. How would it affect gameplay that the eidolon wouldn't disspell when the summoner was unconscious.
Hmmm, I think that's an interesting take on it, but I'd like for it to be a little more focused on using and improving the robot. Maybe something like this adjustment of the original Hunter based class?
Shameless plug: a lot of the stuff from the upcoming Aethera Campaign Setting would be very appropriate here.
In fact, at least one of the ideas mentioned in this thread is in that book. ^_^
Isabelle, were you talking about something in my class write up or something mentioned in another post, because I'd love to see what someone more experienced in pathfinder material creation did.
When an animal companion is re-flavored as a robot companion, does it gain construct traits: d10 Hit Die, no Constitution score, low-light vision, darkvision, cannot heal itself, hard to damage, immunity to mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, necromancy, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage, etc.--and robotic traits: intelligent, vulnerable to critical hits, vulnerable to electricity, and difficult to create? Okay, we can drop intelligent for a robot in the shape of an animal and difficult to create does not matter for a companion that appears as a class ability. Does it lose abilities associated with animals, such as natural armor and scent?
For example, does a big cat:
Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
become a robot cat?
Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; hardness 5; immune construct traits; vulnerable to critical hits, vulnerable to electricity; not healed by rest or healing magic; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con -, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, darkvision 60 ft.
Yeah, I need to be more clear on that too. Yes it would become a robot in all ways including construct traits, robot traits, losing con score. It would retain any attacks the base animal has and the form and size.
Well, I mean, that's pretty much what the hacker does, just reskin the hunter's companion to be a robot (either a robot version of a valid hunter animal companion or a robot up to CR 1 I think I put it at).
Not really derailing it since it's part of the class.
ah, true Gilfalas, since the PRD says: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent." Doesn't mention per movement action, which I think is what each 5 ft step would be, but restricts it to per round. Based on this, if you somehow were able to move during someone else's turn and had already triggered an AOO from someone by moving out of a threatened square, that person still wouldn't be able to AOO you.
A Numerian hunter with a robot companion rather than an animal companion sounds quite charming. A party member in my Iron Gods campaign is planning on taking Improved Familiar at 7th level and acquiring a Clockwork Familiar for the closest she can get to a robot familiar. Alas, a mechanical familiar will incite trouble in the anti-robot town of Iadenveigh in The Choking Tower, unless she keeps it hidden.
I am confused by the reality hacks of the Hacker. Those are just spells, right? You mention that the 0-level applications mimic a Hunter's orisons, but you do not mention what the higher-level reality hacks are. Are you putting together a Hacker spell list of appropriately themed spells? Orisons are very generic, so can be viewed as technological, but druid and ranger spells mostly have a strong nature theme. I also don't understand your list of Script Groups.
A good place to put a Hacker NPC would be in Scrapwall in Lords of Rust. Create another gang that contains several hackers, who are hiding out in Scrapwall because otherwise the Technic League would confiscate their robots.
Hmm, I'll have to rework that section so it's clearer. I'm basing the reality hacking and scripts off of Words of Power; scripts are essentially words, reality hacks are the assembled spell (target script + effect script(s) + boost script(s) if any). As part of this, I'm also working on updating and adding to the words of power so that there's more utility and fun options using the words of power system.
I'm actually planning on making these guys a secret criminal cabal within the Technic League, but not quite connected to the league as their ability to screw with the League's technology is viewed as too dangerous. They're going to be sort of the first technic league encounter that the Party has and help to hammer home the fact that atm the PC's don't want to mess with the league directly.
So the actual vehicle rules aren't too hard but I wanted to do something special in this fight for my group.
Since this whole module is METAL on multiple levels and the arena looks like a place to hold monster truck rallies, I replaced the chariot with a very okry cobbled together demolition derby car. If people are figuring out how to build robots in this setting I figure a simple combustion engine isn't out of sorts. So a more mechanically-minded version of Helskarg entered combat by ramping up over the party while pyrotechnics erupted and heavy metal played over the speakers. Some captured rust-risen were sprinkled in to distract the PCs and give something else for Helskarg to run over while she desperately tried not to crash. She stuck one arm out the window and used one of those grappler gun things to snag PCs and drag them behind the car.
The car exploded as soon as they won but Helskarg survived and they wound up being friends, oddly enough. It was all to put on a good show, after all. I just wanted something awesome.
Ok, that's awesome. My party just entered Scrapwall, via the smiler's backdoor thanks to our swashbuckler getting chummy with the only smiler to survive Aldronard's. I've been working on making Scrapwall feel like more than just a classic massive open air dungeon with a few bits of tech sprinkled about by planning it out more along the lines of the heist rules from Ultimate Intrigue, with the ultimate goal being to find Hellion and find out what he is. This ought to throw a nice wrench in whatever plan my PCs will come up with.
I've also added a Claw statue (like the one from FoC) to the middle of the arena enchanted with sift thoughts by Nalakai and Meyanda that senses thoughts of destroying Hellion, servitude to Unity, or seeking to defeat the Lords of Rust. This enchantment is linked to a bunch of pit traps I scattered around the arena that will trigger when someone that the statue has detected thinking any of these thoughts steps over them, but will not trigger otherwise. Should make the fight feel suitably frantic, especially with a souped up fantasy derby car roaring around them.
I feel like a campaign such as Iron Gods needs more tech than what the AP has. I'd like to partially address this by adding a new class for NPC's and potentially later on as an option for new PC's. Towards this goal, I present the the Hacker, an alternate class for the Hunter. I need some feedback on it for balance and flavor.
Updated the class to be a bit more reasonably powered.
Decreased the spell casting ability and removed the bonus feats that were added. Adjusted the class features to the following:
Hacker Class Features:
Class Skills
The hacker’ class skills are Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Disable Device (Dex), Use Magic Device (Int), and Linguistics (Int).
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A hacker is proficient with all simple weapons + one technological weapon of her choice. She is also proficient in technological light and medium armor.
Mobile Computer
The hacker has assembled or found a mobile computer that she uses to simulate and prepare her scripts, and interface with her robot companion. This computer can be a discrete item or be integrated into a cybernetic modification if it is easily accessible with at least one hand and viewable without undue contortions. A hacker gains the Technologist feat as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Reality Hacking
"A hacker casts psychic spells, but she has a unique understanding of the nature of magic due to her expertise with technology and especially computer based technology. The hacker understands that the complex and often confusing practice of magic as it is known on Golarion is really just the manipulation of basic natural laws to achieve a desired result. She seeks to distill all of reality down to its constituent rules.
The hacker uses a series of reality scripts to create a desired effect in the world. These scripts are drawn from the Sorcerer/Wizard words of power list plus the healing words from the Druid’s word list. These healing words do not affect living creatures, they instead affect constructs. Each individual script must be slightly modified to work with each other and debugged, but once this is done they do not need to be maintained each day. If the hacker wishes to change what scripts she has debugged she must debug and modify all of her scripts again. Debugging and modifying her scripts takes a full rest; she spends the entire rest debugging her scripts. She does not otherwise benefit from the full rest when resting in this manner, except to replenish her programs per day, and is affected by the penalties for not resting each day. Once prepared, scripts can be combined together as needed to create a wide variety of effects. Only scripts of 6th level or lower are potentially comprehensible to the hacker. If a script appears on multiple lists use it at its lowest level. To learn a script a hacker must have an intelligence score of 10 + the spell’s level. The DC for a saving throw against a program is 10 + the assembled script’s level + the hacker’s intelligence modifier. Assembled scripts are highly unstable and glitch as if timeworn technology under the following conditions: a natural 1 is rolled on the spell attack (or the target makes a natural 20 on the save), the program is the last program of that level for the day, or the program is the first program of that level since debugging. Programs per day of the spells level is used in place of charges for resolving glitch results.
Unlike most other casters, a hacker's daily spellcasting ability is extremely limited in some ways, but highly flexible in others. She can prepare only a certain number of scripts of each level per day (as given on the scripts per day table) and does not gain bonus scipts per day from a high intelligence score. She can activate a number of programs each day (as given on the programs per day table) plus a bonus based on her intelligence score.
While the hacker’s daily spell allotment is restricted; she has an extremely diverse array of knowledge about magical effects, methods, and theory. A hacker begins play knowing all 0-level scripts (Drawn from the Druid's word list) and a number of 1st-level scripts equal to 3 + her intelligence modifier. If a level gives her access to a new level of scripts the hacker gains 2 new scripts of that level, otherwise the hacker does not learn new scripts at each level. Instead she must learn from the world around her. In order to develop a new script she spends a number of hours equal to the script’s level studying the effect (whether by observation or research) and makes an appropriate skill check (DC = 20 + spell level) to design an appropriate script. She can also learn scripts from a willing hacker by spending a number of hours equal to half the spell level in consultation with the other hacker while they both make the appropriate skill check (Average of the check results is used for determining success). The hacker must be trained in these skills when studying the world by herself, but she can make the skill check untrained when learning from another hacker but does not gain any bonuses; this does not allow her to make all skill checks untrained.
A hacker cannot use spell completion or spell trigger magic items (without making a successful Use Magic Device check) of spells of 7th level or higher, and she must spend at least one hour/spell level familiarizing herself with the item before she can use it.
"
Applications
Know all applications (0-level spells that mimic a Druid or Hunter's Orisons). As opposed to her scripts which are extremely experimental, these applications are basic expressions and manipulations of the rules of reality and function as pre-made spells, not assembled scripts. These applications can be used any number of times per day. These applications do not glitch.
Robot Companion (Ex)
"At 1st level, a hacker forms a bond with a robot companion, whether by building and designing it herself or reprogramming an existing robot. A hacker may begin play with a robotic version of any of the robots available to a druid. This robot is a loyal companion that accompanies the hacker on her adventures. This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the nature bond class feature). The hacker's effective druid level is equal to her hacker level. If a character receives an animal companion from another source, her effective druid levels do not stack for the purposes of determining the companion's statistics and abilities. A hacker may teach her companion hacker's tricks from the skirmisher ranger archetype instead of standard tricks. The robot companion can use skirmisher tricks when commanded, a number of times per day equal to half its Hit Dice plus its Wisdom modifier.
If a hacker releases her companion from service or her robot companion perishes, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of access to a willing or helpless robot or the parts to construct a robot. While the hacker's robot companion is dead, any robot she summons with a summon nature's ally spell remains for 1 minute per level instead of 1 round per level. A hacker cannot have more than one summon nature's ally spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon nature's ally immediately ends."
Robot Focus (Su)
"At 1st level a hacker has modified his body to make it easier to interface with the technology strewn across Numeria. She starts play with one of the following cybernetic modifications: Mark 1 Dermal Plating, an early prototype skill chip (+1 bonus), a prototype cybernetic arm (+2 CMD against disarm), or a pair of prototype cybernetic eyes (+1 perception or +1 against blindness/Visual Effects). At 1st level, as an action that takes 5 rounds, a hacker can temporarily modify a single cybernetic modification to emulate one ability of a robot that she has interacted extensively with previously or has detailed knowledge of (succeed at the Knowledge check by 10 or more) instead of the cybernetic implants normal bonus. She must select one type of robot to emulate, gaining a bonus or special ability based on the type of robot emulated, the cybernetic body part being adjusted, and her hacker level. The hacker can make these modifications a number of times per day equal to her level + 1. Each modification is stable for only one minute, but can be continued as a swift action. At the start of each 1 minute duration the modification glitches as appropriate for the emulation using number of times/day in place of charges. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. The hacker can modify only one cybernetic modification at a time and each modification can only support one emulation.
The hacker can also modify her robot companion. Unlike with the hacker herself, there is no duration on the robot aspect applied to her robot companion and she can modify any part of the robot to emulate a specific robotic aspect. An aspect applied in this way does not count against the hacker's minutes of duration per day—it remains in effect until the hacker changes it. The companion's aspect can be the same aspect the ranger has taken on or a different one. The hacker can select or change the robot foci on both herself and her robot companion as part of the same 1 minute action. This emuation glitches as if timeworn counting a change in the modification as a depletion of charges.
"
Tech Training (Ex)
A hacker counts her total hacker level as both druid levels and ranger levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an robot companion.
Hack (Ex)
"A hacker can improve the attitude of any robot as long as it is not hosting an AI. This ability functions like a Linguistics check made to create a forgery. The hacker makes a linguistics check to create a forgery and adds her level to determine the Hack check result. To use Hack, the Hacker must be able to access the robots code, usually by physically accessing its internal controls, although she can attempt to do it remotely by voice at a -4 penalty if the robot in question shares a language with her. This check takes 1 minute, during which time she is flat-footed. A Hacker cannot attempt to hack an AI under normal circumstances, but she can attempt to hack a robot with an AI onboard. She must make a check against the robot and the AI separately and takes a -4 penalty on both checks. The check against the robot takes a +4 (negating the penalty) if the robot was unwillingly controlled by the AI. If the Hacker succeeds at both rolls, the AI and the robot are separated and the robot reverts to its normal behavior (an additional hack attempt is required to improve its disposition), if the robot/AI is not connected to a network the AI is trapped in the robot without any way to affect the outside world. The AI may attempt to re-control the robot once minute and gains a +4 bonus if it is trapped inside the robot. The hacker can choose to maintain the hack to defend against the AI or to leave the robot to its own devices. If she chooses to maintain the hack both she and the robot make a Hack check against the AI every time the AI attempts to re-exert control. For every 10 by which the hacker defeats the AI’s attempt to re-hack the robot she deals 1d6 points of ability damage to the AI (Cha, then Wis, then Int).
"
Skilled Hacker
The hacker adds half her level (minimum 1) to all technology related skill checks and can make these checks untrained. This does not stack with the Hack ability. She also gains a +3 bonus on any trained skill when using it in relation to a technological item or challenge.
Precise Companion (Ex)
At 2nd level, a hacker chooses either Precise Shot or Outflank as a bonus feat. She does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat. If she chooses Outflank, she automatically grants this feat to her robot companion as well.
Crack-Coder (Ex)
At 2nd level, a hacker adds 1/2 her level to Linguistics skill checks made to decipher code or information on a computer.
Hacker Tactics (Ex)
At 3rd level, the hacker automatically grants her teamwork feats to her robot companion. The companion doesn't need to meet the prerequisites of these teamwork feats.
Teamwork Feat
"At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, the hacker gains a bonus teamwork feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. The hacker must meet the prerequisites of the selected bonus teamwork feat.
As a standard action, the hacker can choose to learn a new bonus teamwork feat in place of the most recent bonus teamwork feat she has already learned. In effect, the hacker loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. She can change only the most recent teamwork feat gained, and must meet the prerequisites for the newly selected feat. A hacker can change her most recent teamwork feat a number of times per day equal to her Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Whenever she gains a new teamwork feat, her previous teamwork feats become permanent."
Improved Communications Link (Su)
At 4th level, the hacker modifies herself even more, adding a special cybernetic linguistics skillchip to herself. This skillchip grants a bonus on linguistics checks equal to ¼ her hacker level. The chip also allows the hacker to remotely connect to her robot companion granting direct access to the basic controls and status updates of the. This functions like an empathic link with a familiar, except the hacker can also access the robot’s sensory as a swift action, maintaining this connection as long as she likes (as long as the companion is within 1 mile) and ending it as a free action. The hacker is blind and deaf while maintaining this connection.
Hacker's Stride (Ex)
At 5th level a hacker becomes able to move in tandem with the target of his hack as if she had the following step feat while continuing the hack.
Bonus Tricks (Ex)
"At 7th level and every 6 levels thereafter, a hacker's robot companion learns a bonus trick (in addition to the bonus tricks gained from the hacker's effective druid level).
Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion will still affect the hacker and her robot companion."
Second Robot Focus
"At 8th level, whenever a hacker uses her robot focus ability, she selects two different robot aspects for herself instead of one, and can assign two aspects to her companion instead of one. She can emulate up to two abilities on a single cybernetic enhancement. As with the companion's previous aspect, the second one does not count against the minutes per day a hacker can take on an aspect.
If the hacker's robot companion is dead and the hacker has applied the companion's robot aspect to herself, that aspect does not count toward her maximum of two aspects at once. The hacker can still apply only one of her dead companion's aspects to herself, not both."
Multi-tasking
At 8th level, a hacker can start a hack as a full round action and maintain it as a move action in subsequent rounds.
Raise Robot Companion
At 10th level, a hacker gains Make Whole as a spell-like ability; this is not restricted to only her own robot companion. Using this spell-like ability gives the hacker a permanent negative level. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration), but automatically ends after 24 hours. At 16th level, this functions as Greater Make Whole instead of Make Whole, but otherwise operates as normal.
Speak with Master (Ex)
At 11th level, a hacker and her robot companion can communicate verbally, as if they were using a common language. Other creatures cannot understand the communication without magical aid.
Perfected Communications Link (Ex)
At 14th level, the range of the hacker's empathic link with her robot companion increases to 10 miles. If the robot companion is within 1 mile, the hacker can communicate telepathically in a language shared by both.
Ghost in the Shell (Ex)
At 17th level, the hacker and her robot companion are respected or even feared by other robots, so long as the robots are approximately of the same type as any of the hacker's current robot foci.
Master Hacker
"At 20th level the hacker becomes a master of technology, able to initiate a hack as a standard action and continue it as a swift action in subsequent rounds.
Each day when the hacker regains her spell slots, she chooses one robot emulation to be active on herself for the entire day. This focus is in addition to using her robot focus class ability (including the additional focus ability she is able to use on herself if her robot companion is dead) but must be emulated on a separate cybernetic modification."
I'm running an Iron Gods game and one thing that I'd like to change is that there's plenty of classes that use magic to augment or change how they interact with technology, but there seems to be a dearth of classes or characters that have gone the other way. I'd like there to be some characters that reverse this trend, especially in the technic league.
I've designed an alternate class/archetype for the hunter caled the Hacker. Basic idea is that instead of interacting with nature and animals, the hacker interacts with technology and robots.
I've got a rough first-draft of it here if anyone would be willing to give me some feedback on it.
I'm reasonably sure that I've OP'd it, and probably over-complicated it, but let's see what you think.
The group I'm running through Iron Gods has an android whose player wants to have him have been a worshipper of Hellion, but doesn't remember doing so. She wants the character to have to struggle to overcome this aspect of himself when dealing with certain aspects of hellion (and I'd like to expand this to make him connected to Unity as a surprise). I'm thinking that a will save would be the appropriate way to deal with this, but I'm wondering what some appropriate DC's might be.
Did the player's android forget about Hellion because of the renewal process? Honestly I would base the will DC on what their class and will save is.
And how do you plan on the character being related to Unity? Maybe Unity sent the character's previous incarnation to track Hellion?
At the very least it should be interesting if Meyanda recognizes the character.
I was thinking that she had been with Unity since the Divinity crashed and then sided with Hellion (or was made to by him) when he rebelled. The way he becomes part of the party is that while assisting Meyanda with clearing the ship under Torch he was affected by nanites or a program in the ship that reset his software and erased the hateful programming of Unity and Hellion (or at least most of it) leaving him to be the android he would have been in the absence of their influence.
I think I'm going to go with basing the Save DC of of Hellion's and Unity's Spell DC's and off of 1/2 the Item's Craft DC + 10 if it is from interacting with a piece of tech related to Hellion.
Thank you for the input Dragonchess. I like both of those, but I was going more for something to recreate the called weapon enchantment rather than something that would be used against others' weapons. I should have specified that in the original post. Although, you have given me some ideas for another fun item or two that I may have to equip an enemy with.
Hi everyone, I'm GM'ing an Iron Gods game for some friends and I've got one player that wants to find a tech item (probably a gauntlet/glove) that he could call a weapon to him with. Because I don't want tech to feel just like another source of magic that needs power to run I was thinking of something like this:
Gravity Gauntlet:
Cost: 1,200 GP? for one gauntlet and one stud, 800-1000? for each additional stud. Must be bought as a set.
Slot: Hands (Gauntlet/Glove)
free action to activate
item comes as a set with a glove/gauntlet and up to four gravitonically synced studs which can be applied to items by a skilled smith or craftsman (typically on the hilt or haft if it is a weapon). They cannot be easily removed in the field (think welded on or something similar)
Item does not use any power normally, but when the user wants to call an item to her she makes a specific gesture based on which stud she is calling and the glove calls that stud to her hand as long as it is within 100 ft.. The item travels in a direct line to the user at speeds similar to a bullet. If there is a barrier or large+ creature between the item and the user the item impacts it, dealing damage to the barrier/creature (weapon’s damage die + 5?) and the item (falling damage equal to 2x distance traveled?). If the barrier is not destroyed the user must make a DC (?) strength check or be pulled to the barrier taking damage when she impacts it equal to a fall of the distance traveled. If a creature is in the path of the item, there is a 50% chance that the item will impact a medium size creature -20% for each size category smaller. If the creature is not killed the user and the creature impacted must make a DC (?) strength check (1/2 the barrier check for the user) or be pulled to each other. Alternatively she can make a DC (?) reflex throw to shut the gauntlet off and be moved 50% of the distance to the barrier/creature -10% for every 5 by which she beats the DC.
The glove has one battery slot and uses one charge with each use.
Aspects I know I'm not sure about are italicized. I based the pricing off the blinkback belt, but reduced it since I figured the fact that you can't easily switch what is affected and the lower number of returnable things (at the cheapest level) should make it not quite as expensive. Any other suggestions or comments?
The rules on drawing or sheathing a weapon on the PRD state that drawing ammunition is a free action.
** spoiler omitted **
This would seem to indicate that you can already throw weapons at your full BAB. Why does quick draw say that it gives you the ability to do that then?
** spoiler omitted **
You can draw ammunition as a free action. Thrown weapons are not ammunition.
I think your confusion is due to Shurikens being on the list. In Pathfinder they are treated as ammunition not thrown weapons, a fact which I really hate but that is RAW.
Thanks OldSkool. Yes I momentarily forgot that about shuriken. and that does make sense.
The rules on drawing or sheathing a weapon on the PRD state that drawing ammunition is a free action.
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon:
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.
Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.
This would seem to indicate that you can already throw weapons at your full BAB. Why does quick draw say that it gives you the ability to do that then?
Quick Draw (Combat):
You can draw weapons faster than most.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.
Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.
The group I'm running through Iron Gods has an android whose player wants to have him have been a worshipper of Hellion, but doesn't remember doing so. She wants the character to have to struggle to overcome this aspect of himself when dealing with certain aspects of hellion (and I'd like to expand this to make him connected to Unity as a surprise). I'm thinking that a will save would be the appropriate way to deal with this, but I'm wondering what some appropriate DC's might be.
Ascetic style is not making the weapon an unarmed strike in all respects, you are simply applying any effects that you have that augment unarmed strikes as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
What this means (in my opinion and what I believe Chess Pwn and Bad Bird are saying as well) is the following:
Let's take Piranha Strike as an example.
Piranha strike gives you a +2 dmg bonus on all light weapons for a -1 on the attack roll (for BAB 1-3).
With ascetic style, I can use this with a nine-ring broadsword because you can apply augmenting effects as if the attack were an unarmed attack/strike, which is a light weapon by definition.
From the PRD:
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
What this does not mean:
I cannot TWF with two Nine-ring Broadswords (1/hand) using the light weapon penalties because the penalties described in the TWF feat/rules are not effects, they are simply the rules of the world, or the base state in another way of putting it. Ascetic Style allows effects to be applied, not the base state of unarmed strikes. Similarly, I cannot choose to deal nonlethal damage with my broadsword because, again, this is the base state of unarmed strikes, not an effect that augments them.
Question about Ascetic Style as described on your blog for better rules understanding. You wrote "augmented by any feat" instead of "any effect".
Now under effect, there are several spells out there which would affect IUS and then be applied to weapons eventually. I think i can see how that would be "very good". AoMF added in, even better.
The feat version is still good i think, seeing how jabbing style or any other style could now be applied to weapons.
My question is, how would a trait be treated there? As a feat or effect? I would tend to say feat, but Quain Martial Artist would be very good that way.
I'd be very interested in this as well as we've come to an impasse in a discussion about it over in the Rules messageboards. The basic question in that thread is do effects that affect unarmed strike because of some other property of unarmed strikes, like the fact that they are light weapons, also transfer with ascetic style or is it only effects that specifically affect unarmed strikes. So basically do both "+2 to unarmed strike damage" and "+2 to light weapon damage" get applied to the chosen weapon, or is it just the "+2 to unarmed strikes" that can be applied?
Unarmed strikes are light weapons, right there in the table.
My weapon is being treated as an unarmed strike, aka a light weapon.
Since my weapon is being treated as a light weapon I can weapon finesse it, because weapon finesse is changing how I use unarmed strikes, and I can carry that over to my weapon.
It's being treated as an unarmed strike, not as a light weapon. Or are you saying this feat would also allow you to wield a seven-branched sword in each hand? Or apply Piranha Strike in place of Power Attack on your kusarigama? Or use the Sly Draw feat with a tri-point double-edged sword? Could you use Disguise Weapon to make a Medium temple sword look like a Medium brass dagger, or use Hide Weapon to hide a quarterstaff?
When you apply this feat, it doesn't gain the qualities of an unarmed strike, it is simply allowing you to apply some feats and effects that normally you couldn't. Those temple swords are still one-handed; taking Ascetic Style does not suddenly make them light weapons just because they are being treated as unarmed strikes for a certain purpose. Not being given any of the traits thereof. It's simply allowing you to eschew a single required trait of the chosen weapon (that being the fact that it isn't your fist). I can only word this so many ways before I start sounding like Mojo Jojo.
I'm... not sure how much more simply I can put it.
And
Bladelock wrote:
If I willfully misread the rules to allow for Weapon finesse simply because of Ascetic Style, things can get interesting.
I'm looking forward to using 7branch swords with Ascetic Style on my rogue, while doing lethal damage to:
trigger enforcer (because ua strikes are non-lethal)
triggering Sap Mastery (because UA strikes are bludgeoning and non-lethal)
twf w/ 2h weapons in each hand (because ua strikes are light)
all based on dex from weapon finesse!!!
Oh for...! What both of you are forgetting, is that ascetic style says you can apply effects as if attacks with the chosen weapon are unarmed strikes. No where does it say they become unarmed strikes for the purpose of all rules. What chess pawn and I are saying is that this wording is similar to the wording in slashing grace that treats the selected weapon as a one handed piercing weapon for any feat or class ability that requires such. Slashing grace does not actually change the dmg type of your weapon. Similarly ascetic style doesn't change your sword into a fist, it just allows you to use the sword with the ease and training of your unarmed strikes.
That would be an incorrect reading of it I believe. You don't need ASCII or programming knowledge for this; you need grammar. The commas in that sentence are separating out a nonrestrictive appositive. They are clarifying the "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite" part of the feat description by adding an additional type of effect that you can add to the weapon.
My point about the ASCII was that I don't have a way to actually diagram the sentence in a readable way on the forums. Let's see if I can make this make sense without drawing an actual diagram.
The problem is that it's a compound direct object of the verb "apply", but both of the objects are the noun "effects":
"You can apply effects (DO #1) [as well as] effects (DO #2)"
DO #1 is modified by "of feats" (prepositional phrase)
The object of the preposition ("feats") is then modified by the restrictive relative clause "that have IUS as a prereq".
DO #2 is modified by the restrictive relative clause "that augment IUS".
The way the sentence is constructed, there is no way to make the second relative clause apply to "feats" because the author repeated the word "effects" after the "as well as". Now, this is a good thing, because the author was expanding the realm beyond just that of feats, but it's also a bad thing because it actually excludes "feats" from the "augment unarmed strike" condition.
** spoiler omitted **
First of all, "feats" is not a preposition. A preposition indicates location (e.g. on, in, beside). Feats have nothing to do with location and the word is a plural noun.
So, according to your reading, effects is automatically restricted from being from feats. What then is an effect source that is automatically allowed to be used because it doesn't have any restrictions or allowances specified. I think a more logical way to look at this is what was mentioned earlier (I believe by BadBird). The bolded section below (the one mentioning feats) specifically mentions feats so that you can apply things like panther style and use the selected weapon for the retaliatory strike. Effects that augment unarmed strike can be applied to the weapon as well; the possible sources of these effects is not specified.
Ascetic Style wrote:
Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.[/qoute]
This description could be rearranged as follows:
Choose one Weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. You can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks while using this style and wielding the chosen weapon.
This gets rid of that extraneous comma from having the 'while' phrase in the front. In this form, we can see that the "as well...augment an unarmed strike" is an expansion of the effects that can be applied to the weapon.
Thank you again for your input on this issue everyone. If people could mark the original post for the faq, we might actually get an official ruling on this which appears to be the only decision we're all going to be able to agree on.
Aight, so I can see Gwen's logic on this. The divide is on what specifically an effect is augmenting. In cases like the Vine Strike spell, it's affecting what your weapon does. Weapon Finesse, on the other hand, changes how you use a weapon, not what the weapon itself does.
And I think that's the point Imbaticus was trying to make too, in spite of how he worded it. Weapon Finesse doesn't affect unarmed strikes because it doesn't actually affect any weapon. It affects the user of a weapon, allowing them to use anything defined as a light weapon in a different way.
Think of it this way: pretend you could take your arm off and hand it to another person to use as a light mace that they're proficient with. If doing so would allow them to benefit from an effect you could take advantage of, then Ascetic Style should work with it. If not, then it won't unless it's from a feat with IUS as a prerequisite.
So, I know that fluff does not equal rules, but let's take a look at the wording in the description of ascetic style as it may give us some insight into the writer's intent:
Ascetic Style fluff:
You blend arms and martial arts, using weapons with the same ease as unarmed strikes.
This would seem to indicate that if anything, the intent was actually the opposite, that it was supposed to apply effects that affect how you use unarmed strikes rather than ones that affect the strikes themselves. This is of course just fluff and so not rules. But it is also supported by a post from Alexander Augunas, who apparently wrote the feat, in the product discussion.
GM Aram Zey wrote:
The ascetic style seems to open up an interesting option due to the bolded sentence in the spoiler.
Ascetic Style: Hide
Benefit: Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
Are the amulet of mighty fists and body wraps of mighty strikes "effects that augment an unarmed strike" for the purpose of this feat? If I have a flaming amulet of mighty fists, a +1 frost body wrap of mighty strikes and a +2 cestus, would using ascetic style allow me to punch with a +2 flaming frost cestus strike?
Since there is a hard cap of +10 worth of bonuses on a single weapon, what happens when the combined bonuses exceed +10 (for example if I had a +5 brilliant energy cestus (total +9 worth of bonuses)and a flaming shock amulet of mighty fists (+2 worth of bonuses)?
In response to this Alexander Augunas wrote:
GM Aram Zey wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:
You'd get a situation like a bow and arrow. The net is going to be a +15 set of weapons...but the combined cost will be, what, 700k?
However, an interesting way to help keep the cost of wielding two weapons down by spreading the cost across the amulet as well.
Until an Owen answer or an official Paizo FAQ happens (both of which supersede me), my suggestion would be to treat it like a magical bow and ammunition; enhancement bonuses don't stack, but special abilities would. Considering that the amulet of mighty fists is in general more expensive than the bow, this should be a relatively balanced way to handle it.
With that said, I would NOT allow the style feat to transfer enhancement bonuses, as that was NOT my intention. It was designed to work on class abilities and feats, not magic weapon bonuses.
Weapon focus and weapon specialization don't require unarmed strike, but they are effects that augment unarmed strikes. No where does it say that feat based effects AREN'T included, and thus they are included by the clause that includes effects.
The unarmed strike pre-req part is for things like boar style, where you trigger something on 2 successful US hits. This isn't augmenting unarmed strikes at all, thus it needs the first line to transfer this to natural attacks.
Yep, or the jabbing style in my build, which is only usable with US
So I went back and picked up the exact text of the feat from the book and noticed a pretty important piece of punctuation:
"While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks."
That comma with "as well as" separates the preceding text from the following text, which means that the second restrictive relative clause ("that augment an unarmed strike") can't possibly modify feats.
The way I would parse this sentence is (apologies for lack of ASCII sentence diagramming conventions):
"You can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite (as if the attacks were unarmed strikes).
[You can also apply] effects that augment an unarmed strike."
It does not say:
"You can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
[You can also apply feats and] effects that augment an unarmed strike."
Nor does it say:
"You can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
[You can also apply] effects [of feats] that augment an unarmed strike."
Based on this, I'm revising my ruling to say "Only those feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite apply. Other 'effects that augment an Unarmed Strike' can't be feats." It called out "effects of feats" in the main portion, then it added other "effects" (without the "feats") in the afterthought.
YMMV/Expect table variation/Not valid in some states/etc.
That would be an incorrect reading of it I believe. You don't need ASCII or programming knowledge for this; you need grammar. The commas in that sentence are separating out a nonrestrictive appositive. They are clarifying the "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite" part of the feat description by adding an additional type of effect that you can add to the weapon. It is the same as saying, "I can create amazing characters and adventures in Pathfinder, as well as other RPGs, to explore with my friends." According to your reading of the sentence structure in ascetic style, the sentence I made would mean that in Pathfinder I can explore with my friends, but in other RPGs I can't.
As for your examples of erroneous readings, I would agree for the most part that they are erroneous, but because you insist on adding the word 'feat' in the "effects that augment" part rather than just leaving it at effects, not because the grammar doesn't say these things.
So, I'm trying to make a monk/brawler character to embody the ideal of a quick swordfighter that ducks hits and ducks away before his next attack. The barebones of my original plan was to use a temple sword and utilize 2 levels of MoMs to acquire jabbing style and ascetic style (temple sword) (and the ability to fuse them). Obviously ascetic style would allow jabbing dancer to apply to my temple sword, but would it also allow me to apply weapon finesse to the temple sword because weapon finesse is "an effect that augments an unarmed strike"?
Since Temple Swords aren't in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group, I assume that you are using five "monk" levels to qualify for Ascetic Style (Temple Sword). Am I correct that you are taking three levels in Brawler and two in MoMS and will qualify for Ascetic Style (Temple Sword) at 5th level?
No, I had realized that a day or so after posting this, and will be doing it with a nine-ring broadsword (half-elven ancestral arms to gain the proficiency) instead.
Imbicatus wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Weapon Finesse does not augment "unarmed strikes" (...)
Let's say I have a monk, 10 Str, 20 Dex, only feat is Weapon Finesse.
Does Weapon Finesse augment this monk's unarmed strike, yes or no?
Yes, but only because the unarmed strike is a light weapon.
So it augments unarmed strike.
How is that not usable with Ascetic style's wording of "effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks"?
Unarmed Strikes are light weapons, but light weapons aren't unarmed strikes. So affecting light weapons doesn't translate to affecting unarmed strikes in the context of the feat. You do not count your chosen weapon "in all regards" as an unarmed strike; you count it as an Unarmed Strike for the purpose of rules elements that augment Unarmed Strikes. Unarmed Strike is a "subset" of light weapons; the two categories are not equivocal.
Light weapons are augmented by Weapon Finesse (major premise), Unarmed Strikes are light weapons (minor premise), therefore, Weapon Finesse augments unarmed strikes (conclusion). If an effect augments unarmed strikes, it augments my temple sword (secondary major premise). Weapon Finesse augments unarmed strikes (secondary minor premise). Weapon Finesse augments my temple sword (secondary conclusion). This is your argument. But is involves a fallacy in that minor premise, Unarmed Strikes are light weapons. Unarmed Strike is not distributed to all light weapons, so this is the illicit minor syllogistic fallacy. A more proper way to present it would be "Some light weapons are Unarmed Strikes." And that collapses the argument since you cannot draw the conclusion that justifies the secondary minor premise. Thus, since you cannot logically establish that Weapon Finesse is an effect that affects unarmed strikes, it does not qualify for use in conjunction with Ascetic Style. It would be like saying "All cats are felines, and all cats are mammals, therefore, all mammals are felines." In this case, all cats are mammals doesn't work the other way so cats is a proper subset of mammals. Likewise, Unarmed Strikes is a proper subset of light weapons so you cannot use them interchangeably. Just because all unarmed strikes are light weapons doesn't mean that all light weapons are unarmed strikes. Weapon Finesse augments "all light weapons", but since you cannot logically substitute "all light weapons" with "unarmed strikes", Weapon Finesse...
I think you may have the logical fallacy. Unarmed strikes are a type of light weapon and are therefore augmented by effects that affect light weapons. The feat does not say that the effects have to say that they augment unarmed strike, only that they do augment unarmed strikes. Saying that effects that augment light weapons do not augment unarmed strikes is like me saying, "All fruit is good for you", but then saying "oranges are terrible for you".
Until an Owen answer or an official Paizo FAQ happens (both of which supersede me), my suggestion would be to treat it like a magical bow and ammunition; enhancement bonuses don't stack, but special abilities would. Considering that the amulet of mighty fists is in general more expensive than the bow, this should be a relatively balanced way to handle it.
With that said, I would NOT allow the style feat to transfer enhancement bonuses, as that was NOT my intention. It was designed to work on class abilities and feats, not magic weapon bonuses.
I bring this up because this would seem to indicate that only effects from feats were intended to be applied. Would this include things like weapon finesse that have an effect on attacks with unarmed strikes, but do not actually call out unarmed strikes as what they have an effect on? Would this allow a monk to apply their increased unarmed damage die to a weapon without any further feats in the chain?
First of all, I want to thank everyone for their input here. I would just like to understand the logic behind Gwen's and Kazaan's (and what I am coming to believe is the designer's) interpretation of this issue.
Ok, so, ascetic style says that you can "apply ... effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the (chosen) weapon were unarmed attacks".
Now weapon finesse applies to light weapons along with specific weapons called out in the feat description.
Unarmed strikes are light weapons.
These are all the facts that we agree on.
What I'm not understanding is this; where in ascetic style does it say that the effect has to specifically call out that it affects unarmed strikes and/or can't come from a feat not covered by the first part of the wording?
By virtue of the fact that unarmed attacks are light weapons, anything that augments light weapons by definition augments unarmed strikes. The wording, "...as if the weapon attacks are unarmed attacks....", to me means that you count them in all regards as unarmed attacks, otherwise there should be a call-out to the specific aspects/attributes of unarmed strikes that the attacks take on.
Also two things:
Feral combat training is irrelevant since the errata, as it now only applies to feats with improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite. which is different wording than the ascetic style feat.
And what I have just realized is that the entire ascetic style chain does not make any sense as the wording of ascetic style seems to make the other two feats in the chain irrelevant (and worse than what ascetic style's wording should give). Ascetic form allows class abilities to be used and ascetic strike allows level-4 equivalent monk unarmed strike damage to be applied, which again ascetic style would seem to already cover (at least if you are a monk) as these are clearly effects that augment unarmed strike to begin with.
I think I foresee an errata to change this feat chains wording so that the feats actually flow from one another. The existence of the other two feats does seem to indicate that Gwen and Kazaan are correct (unfortunately for my build)
Prerequisite(s): Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Jabbing Style, Mobility; base attack bonus +9, brawler level 5th, or monk level 5th.
Benefit: Each time you hit with an unarmed strike while using Jabbing Style, you can move 5 feet without provoking an attack of opportunity as long as you move to a space adjacent to the opponent you hit with the unarmed strike. If you use this feat, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn.
Could I choose to provoke an attack of opportunity on the movement rather than making the move without provoking?
Is moving the 5-ft considered an action to move?
If I make multiple attacks using Flurry of Blows or TWF (say a +10/+10, +5/+5 set of TWF and iterative attacks) do I take the movement after each attack (4 total, once after each attack) or just after each iterative attack (2 total, once after both +10's resolved and once after both +5's)?
If it has to augment the actual weapon, then technically, no feat would be eligible since they are all on you and how you use the weapon. In this case, ascetic style would be changing what enchantments/modifications you could put on a weapon? maybe? Maybe it's greatest use would be to allow you to use an amulet of mighty fists instead of enchanting your actual weapon (not sure why this would be preferable unless there's lots of disarming going on in the campaign)?
To me, the important part is that ascetic style says that you can apply feats to that weapon as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks and weapon finesse says it only applies to the attack rolls (aka the attacks).
So, I'm trying to make a monk/brawler character to embody the ideal of a quick swordfighter that ducks hits and ducks away before his next attack. The barebones of my original plan was to use a temple sword and utilize 2 levels of MoMs to acquire jabbing style and ascetic style (temple sword) (and the ability to fuse them). Obviously ascetic style would allow jabbing dancer to apply to my temple sword, but would it also allow me to apply weapon finesse to the temple sword because weapon finesse is "an effect that augments an unarmed strike"?
Ascetic Style:
Prerequisite(s): Weapon Focus with the chosen melee weapon; base attack bonus +1 or monk level 1st.
Benefit(s): Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
Special: A 5th-level monk or character with the weapon training (monk) class feature can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, in addition to the chosen melee weapon.
Weapon Finesse:
Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Unarmed Strike:
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
Damage
A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike.
A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage.
A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion.
No, Rondelero Flexibility is used as it's own special Full Attack action, and to use Two Weapon Fighting, you have to use a normal Full Attack action. You can't combine the two.
The two-weapon fighting section of the PRD actually doesn't mention full-attack anywhere in the description. It just says you can get one extra attack per round with your off-hand weapon. I agree that even though it doesn't mention a full-attack action, TWF requires you to do a full-attack, but I don't agree that rondelero flexibility prevents you from utilizing TWF in a full-attack.
From the PRD:
Full Attack:
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.
So TWF is included in the basic full attack description in the rules. Rondelero Flexibility shouldn't negate part of this rule and leave the rest intact. Assuming that that is true, then either the attacks in TWF must be fair game for the Rondelero Flexibility's alternating use of Falcata/Buckler or Rondelero Flexibility must have a different definition of a full attack action, an attack, or both.
This is of course just my opinion based on the language in the applicable feats, class features, and rules.
I just got the Weapon master handbook, it's awesome, but the Rondelero Flexibility ability has me really confused. The Rondelero fighter archetype has a very similar ability, minus the keeping buckler AC, but I feel it's been "established" that the ability doesn't actually DO anything, since you can already alternate between weapons and not take 2WF penalties. BUT since the ability was printing again I am super curious if it's actually supposed to mean anything. Or does the fighter's really do nothing and the swashbuckler's really just saves you a feat to keep ac? Does anyone know more about this?
So, obviously when developing a Player Companion, I can't go back and adjust the wording of other books already in print. And of the thousands of people who will buy and use this book, not all of them are part of online discussions. So I want to make sucre it's clear to people who have already put the Rondelero fighter archetype into their games that this class can do the same thing. The fear is if we *don't* mention that, there will be people who see the absence as meaning the new archetype can't do it. And if some new FAQ or official rules change comes along (which I have no reason to think will happen, but like to be prepared for), the two Rondelero will continue to operate in the same way.
However the swashbuckler ability DOES do something, since it allows you to shield bash witch a buckler without losing the AC from the buckler, and that's a nice ability if not overwhelming. For one thing it means you can attack a foe hit with a full attack action, hit, roll damage, discover the foe has DR 10/bludgeoning, and swap to your buckler for your second attack without fear of weakening your defenses.
Based on the wording of Rondelero Flexibility
Rondelero Flexibility (EX):
At 6th level, as a full-attack
action, a rondelero swashbuckler wielding a falcata in one
hand and a buckler in the other can alternate between
using his falcata and his buckler for each attack. This does
not grant additional attacks or incur penalties as two weapon
fighting does, and does not cause her to lose his
Armor Class bonus from her buckler.
and the wording of Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Fighting:
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
Could you take two weapon fighting with the Rondelero Swashbuckler archetype (or the Rondelero Duelist Archetype since the wordings are the same) and simply make every attack with the falcata (or the buckler if need be)? Flexibility (and Strong Swing) both simply say that you can alternate between using the falcata or the buckler for each attack and TWF grants you an extra attack that normally needs to be with the off-hand, but is still just an attack. I would assume that if this were the case, then you would take TWF penalties as if each of your weapons was one-handed instead of using the light weapon penalties as if you were actually using the buckler.
So, with the Heroes of the Streets player companion a bit ago, we now have the Eldritch Archer magus archetype which gives us ranged spellstrike as a 2nd level class ability. The ability spells out pretty clearly, that just like with standard spellstrike, you can only deliver one charge of a spell with each attack. What about firearms though? Specifically firearms like the Dragon Pistol.
Dragon Pistol:
Like a miniature blunderbuss, the dragon pistol fires pellets or a bullet from its flared barrel.
The dragon pistol fires in a 15-foot cone when firing pellets, and has a 10-foot range increment when firing a bullet. For ammunition, a dragon pistol uses a bullet or group of pellets and a single dose of black powder, or else a single alchemical cartridge (with either bullets or pellets) as ammunition.
If I somehow have a dragon pistol as my arcane bond weapon and the reach spellstrike arcana, can I spellstrike through it using pellets and hit everything in the cone with shocking grasp?
