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The House Rules subforum is wonderful. One of the best subforums on the Boards. The Advice and General subforums, on the other hand, are plenty of fun as long as you avoid the paladin-style threads, the Dear Abby threads, and the "recurring arguments" (player entitlement vs. GM powertrips, casters vs. martials, etc). I mean, keep in mind those subforums brought us The Songbird of Doom and that one weird build that fights from prone that I can't find for the life of me.
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Dear Abby threads you say!
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Dear Abby,
My group regularly trades off on hosting. Last week, it was my turn to host, and the occultist player's contracted imp drank all of my milk and killed my hamster while we were gaming. Would it be appropriate to contact the Order of the Nail to have them and their errant devil dealt with?
Sure, why not, As long as I get my cut.
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I think it might be a good idea to consider that there is a difference in harassment and forum rules breaking threads and repeat arguments threads you dont like. The first is bad for the community, but the second is only bad for you.
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The point is that rules arguments tend to get vicious, PP, mainly because some people are very frustrated by the arguments' repetitions and become increasingly hostile and entrenched as a result. They give up on making meaningful contributions and just try to shut down the debate because, in their minds, the debates are stupid and shouldn't even exist. Some people just want it to stop, and due to that combination of exasperation and arrogance, they can get very ill-tempered.
I am among them. :P
Sometimes y'just gotta live and let live.
But seriously, we don't need another "can the alchemist fire hurt the swarm" thread.
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It both can and can't, so long as nobody is observing the swarm.
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Schrodinger was the original RAWrgumenter, to be honest.
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Schrodinger was the original RAWrgumenter, to be honest.
ALL BARBARIAN AM SAYING AM THAT IF BOX AM STABBED THROUGH ENOUGH, CONTENTS AM DEFINITELY DEAD.
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The point is that rules arguments tend to get vicious, PP, mainly because some people are very frustrated by the arguments' repetitions and become increasingly hostile and entrenched as a result. They give up on making meaningful contributions and just try to shut down the debate because, in their minds, the debates are stupid and shouldn't even exist. Some people just want it to stop, and due to that combination of exasperation and arrogance, they can get very ill-tempered.
I think that's something the individual poster should work on, not an issue with the community.
There will be lots and lots of threads you aren't interested in. Deliberately trying to sabotage them because you've talked it through before or because you're sick of the topic is not helpful, nor friendly to those who do want to keep discussing it.
If you've 'given up on making meaningful contributions' don't talk about it. Don't try and stop other people from talking about it or 'shut down the debate'.
Sometimes y'just gotta live and let live.
But seriously, we don't need another "can the alchemist fire hurt the swarm" thread.
If at least two posters still want to talk about it (or want to talk about it again) then yes, we do.
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Okay, so Steve, it appears that my communication skills failed me today. I apologize for any lack of clarity, but I am personally feeling frustrated. I thought my meaning was fairly clear: I was not saying that this behavior is a good thing.
I hope this was a misunderstanding. Because if this is you deciding to take offense at anyone admitting their own failings, you are aiming to produce a very hostile, unforgiving community.
Nah, definitely a misunderstanding (both ways it seems!) :)
I wasn't offended at all. I just misunderstood what you said. I thought you were saying the problem is the rehashing of arguments (which I disagree with) and that snarkiness in response was understandable. My bad.
Also, I didn't realise you were including yourself or admitting any failings (I only read the posts I replied to) so it wasn't intended as an attack on you but a general comment. Apologies again.
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Usually I just skip over the rehash threads. The real problem in rehashes is when they seep into related threads. Fake example that has probably actually happened (more than once): someone starts a thread talking about the rogue maybe being underpowered. 6 posts follow with productive discussion. 600 posts then follow discussing caster martial disparity. And let's add 10 more posts demanding a FAQ just for good measure
Yeah - I think that's a broader issue though. I'm generally in favor of wandering discussion and tangents being okay, but in the rules/advice forum I personally think one should stick closer to the OP's topic.
I take your point though - it's not easy to read the rules forum selectively, even if you've decided you never want to hear about the Caster-Martial disparity again (or various other topics).
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My daughter has found a nice Chainsaw makes up somewhat for the martial caster disparity.
And flash grenades.
And fire extinguishers! Nothing beats a fire dependent magic user like an android with a fire extinguisher.
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I used to avoid caster-martial disparity like the plague, largely because it usually isn't a problem in my game. But I've been working on some custom rules so recently I've been reading them more. Still no posting though. I just like to see people's concerns about the game.
I'm also all for wandering discussions. IIRC, some of the bigger FAQs came out of rules discussions that went weird ways. It's more about what the tangent is. Certain topics (caster-martial, RAW vs. RAI, tiered classes, edition wars) are as productive as having Tennessee and Texas folks argue about who has better BBQ. It's possible to live a world where different folks like different BBQ, and some like it all.
No one gets my humor...
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My daughter has found a nice Chainsaw makes up somewhat for the martial caster disparity.
And flash grenades.
And fire extinguishers! Nothing beats a fire dependent magic user like an android with a fire extinguisher.
So basically, casters are hard-countered by Numeria in general? Between the tech and the rampant barbarians...
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Yes, and god forbid she can ever afford that Deathray she's saving up for.
I didn't mean to suggest that. That's why I said your suggestions were good. They are. Especially for real life.
And speaking of real life, I suspect even the folks who seem like jerks would be quite courteous at the game table. I've never been at a sanctioned event where people were rude. That just makes it more complicated and makes me worry more about whether I should have posted anything at all. Sorry for the train of thought post :P
Agreed, it is much easier for a person to be a jerk/troll with anonymity of the internet shielding them from direct consequences.
I have run into a handful of people over the years during table top who had issues, I simply never invited them back again or let them know that they were no longer welcome if they were long standing players. And the one specific instance I am thinking of the person left a raving ranting voicemail on my phone and did not confront me directly about his nonsense. Then again I'm a pretty thick dude so people rarely, if ever, get in my face.
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Yeah - I think that's a broader issue though. I'm generally in favor of wandering discussion and tangents being okay, but in the rules/advice forum I personally think one should stick closer to the OP's topic.
I take your point though - it's not easy to read the rules forum selectively, even if you've decided you never want to hear about the Caster-Martial disparity again (or various other topics).
I don't generally post in those rules forums.
My approach is to search for a thread (or FAQ) on a ruling I think is unclear and read the thread. Then I agree or disagree and go back to the PbP I am running (sometimes ones I play in) explain the rationale for why I am ruling a certain way (or appealing to the DM for a particular ruling if I am a player). Works for me and allows me to avoid back and forth nonsense that appears to upset some people here.
To me the Golden Rule prevails, the DM makes the rules and RAW be damned. If it is a fair ruling, players will stick around, if it's unfair players won't. I run 17 PbP's on these boards so it seems my rulings are perceived as fair...
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think Jiggy is busy with 3PP work (or I'm misremembering again).
I'm flattered that my decline in posting frequency was noticed. :)
Although I've done a little 3PP work, I'm not currently working on 3PP stuff (unless you count a massive independent project I'm slowly grinding away at), and that's not the reason for my absence. Rather, there was a convergence of factors that led to me abandoning Pathfinder altogether. As a result, spending time on the forums (outside of PbP games) shifted from being a meaningful priority to being something I do when I unexpectedly have a few minutes to kill. More recently, holidays and workplace transitions reduced that free time significantly.
On topic, I don't think the forums have gotten worse (since I've been here, at least). Rather, I think that the mindsets and attitudes that are at the root of a lot of the issues were always here, but weren't causing "problems" because those toxic mindsets were shared by what used to be a majority. Then, as new blood came into the community, that majority status diminished, and those toxic mindsets started to feel some serious pushback for the first time.
It's not unlike what might happen if more and more persons of color moved into a racist, historically white town: instead of 95% of your neighbors nodding along in support of a person's BS, 50% of them are calling it out. The result is a perception among the original residents that the town has "gotten worse", when really all that happened is that the original toxicity stopped having majority approval.
Obviously not all of the forum's issues come down to that; there's always going to be some number of people behaving poorly for all kinds of reasons, just like not all of the above hypothetical town's crime rate would be race-related. But many of the key topics (including ones that have already been mentioned in this thread) can, in my opinion, be linked to this phenomenon in some capacity.
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Jiggy, you're one of the few posters who makes me genuinely think, "Oh, boy, Jiggy posted. We're in for a treat." Even when I disagree with you, you put so much thought into your posts that they're always worth reading. So I do hope you keep posting around here!
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Jiggy, you're one of the few posters who makes me genuinely think, "Oh, boy, Jiggy posted. We're in for a treat." Even when I disagree with you, you put so much thought into your posts that they're always worth reading. So I do hope you keep posting around here!
I wholeheartedly agree with the Kobold!
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What they said. You're one'a the good ones.
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Jiggy, at some point (not here) can we talk about PFS culture? I've been trying to work on ways to make it more inviting to newcomers and less rules-grouchy, at least within the communities I frequent. I would love your feedback as one of our most articulate ex-members.
Hmm
Checks if anyone misses him...nope ;_;
I used to hang out a lot on General Discussion, Advice, and Homebrew, but lately my groups have shifted from Pathfinder to 5e, so I hang out on Paizo's 5e subforum. I must be out of touch with the latest optimal builds and magic items at this point.
I also like hanging out on the RPGSS forums, even in the absence of the contest there's stuff going on. Check out Template Fu's challenge and take advantage of his generous offer of critique!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Jiggy, at some point (not here) can we talk about PFS culture? I've been trying to work on ways to make it more inviting to newcomers and less rules-grouchy, at least within the communities I frequent. I would love your feedback as one of our most articulate ex-members.
Hmm
Sure, feel free to shoot me a PM. :)
I just stumbled on this thread. I´m also one of the mostly lurkers, especially since the german translation and message boards got off ground. I don´t read much here these days, but the boards surely have changed. My first posts here are from 2005, and I remember why a warning about edition wars had to be added when 4e came up.... So, the paizo boards always had their measure of hostile posts, make no mistake. While I can´t judge the recent past, the message boards were quite civil for the most parts nevertheless. Edition wars got messy, and the rules playtest could get ugly as well.
This very thread shows what these boards can be - what started as some sort of rant turned into a lesson or two to be learned.
(While we are at missing posters from yesteryear, I had some nice discussions with farewell2kings and Peruhain of Brithondy back in the day when the mags were still up and running APs set in Greyhawk. And now get off my lawn!)
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I miss captain yesterday.
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That's okay, you can always just take another shot.
I miss captain yesterday.
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Yeah, I haven't seen him in ages. I think he's vanished.
Sure, why not, As long as I get my cut.
Dear Abby Thrune, do you have any idea where he's gone?
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{pulls up KC's character sheet, adds notes about his further decent into Evil}
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Sure, feel free to shoot me a PM. :)Jiggy, at some point (not here) can we talk about PFS culture? I've been trying to work on ways to make it more inviting to newcomers and less rules-grouchy, at least within the communities I frequent. I would love your feedback as one of our most articulate ex-members.
Hmm
You guys come up with anything, shoot me the plan.
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I too am becoming more drawn to 5th ed for its elegant simplicity and DM fiat omnipotence, as opposed to the delicious complexity of 20 year old matured bottle of Pathfinder. Choice now has flipped over to bloat and my go to answer of "ban it" doesn't get a very good reception.
I can't say i miss repeated huge walls of text from the same old posters.
Though occasionally if something is worth saying, it is worth saying well as in Death's post higher up. Very thought provoking in life as well as gaming.
That's okay, you can always just take another shot.
D'oh! Joke stealer! Joke stealer! String 'im up!!!
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I have mostly changed to lurking. I used to post a lot and then I just decided one day to stop. It was during an argument about fighters and I starting thinking that I just don't really care about someone's opinion on whether or not I find a class playable and enjoyable. They aren't playing in my campaign and I'm not playing in their's.
I started looking around for various posts and I realized that I really wasn't needed to answer questions or fight for things. I still post (obviously), but not very often.
I'm also going through some very serious personal issues and I have decided that I don't want to drag people down with me when things get difficult on my end.
Last year I had surgery and I almost died from it. I realized that I don't have to fight every battle that's out there. I can just enjoy spending time with my friends and I can stay up on current discussions without having to get into a fight over things. This goes for things outside of gaming too. For me, it wasn't worth the stress.
I've been a bit congested, but I didn't think it was serous enough to write me off...
I've been a bit congested, but I didn't think it was serous enough to write me off...
Who let you out of sick bay? Get back in there till your better.
I'm not even sick, I've had a bit of nasal congestion.
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I too miss some of the people who I used to see post, and don't miss others. I think that forums have ups and downs, but I don't think they've changed much overall, merely the points of discussion/argument have changed. Then again, I've immersed myself in the murky rules posts, alignment threads, politics debates, and errata topics as long as I've been here. I tend to be interested to find out why people believe what they do, and strongly held beliefs are far more interesting.
I also tend to be frequently irreverent, sarcastic, or silly. These aren't internet posting only behaviours, I can assure you that I am usually like that in person as well. It is ever my bane that sarcasm is difficult to read in text.
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I am exactly how I am on the boards.
Right down to the low plunging neckline and Jay-Z bling.
I don't wear hats though.