The planar police

[Plausible Pseudonym]

Does anyone's campaign include outsiders dedicated to punishing mortal spellcasters who abuse Planar Binding (whether murdering the outsider after they do their job, Stone to Flesh a succubus after receiving a profane gift, or Efreeti wish shenanigans)?

It occurs to me that it's pretty easy to set up conceptually, given the existence of Wish granting/capable outsiders who can wish (or have a surrogate do it, for Efreeti) for an offending caster to be pulled into a prepared ambush on another plane.

Some concepts:

Efreeti Enforcers: Working out of the Mage's Quarter of the City of Brass under the aegis of Grand Vizier, this group of Efreeti take revenge on spellcasters who do not bargain fairly for the wishes they receive. They rely on reporting from offended Efreeti, as well as divination when one fails to report for annual musters. When a target is identified, several Efreeti with class levels prepare an ambush around a Dimensional Locked killing ground, then have their mortal slaves use granted Wishes to transport the magician to his fate. Those who surrender are enslaved, those who resist are killed and their corpse paraded through the Grand Bazaar. So efficient, consistent, and well known is the operation that only the most powerful, cautious, or insane mortal spellcasters dare to coerce Efreeti into wishes rather than bargain (un)fairly.

Diabolic Department of Discipline: Special units of devils take reports of disappeared or abused minions of the Archdevils. The devils, however, play a more subtle game with their quarry. First they observe, then they approach to offer a deal. If this fails, local agents on the relevant material plane may be tasked for revenge. Only in extremis do the Pit Fiends who lead these units use their precious annual Wishes to pull the perpetrators in for punishment.

Abyssal Avengers: Demons lack the organization and individual accountability of Efreeti and Devils, but cabals of Nalfeshnee dedicated to the honor of the Abyss work randomly to punish those mortal offenders who their oracles (or reports from vengeful demons) reveal have repeatedly insulted or destroyed demons. Their Glabrezu partners force humanoid slaves to Wish for the transport of these offenders, where they are destroyed or corrupted - often by the offer of a treacherous wish from another Glabrezu.

I'm not sure the celestials need a similar organization, but if their personnel are getting abused I'm sure they would have similar approaches. In any case, GMs trying to rein in player abuses should consider developing one of these ideas and spreading it as common knowledge among the magical populace.

[Captain Inevitable!]

This looks like a job for CAAAAAAPPTTAAAAAINNN INNNEEEEVVVITTTTAAABBLEEE, and his INEVITABLE Men! ROLL CALL

Certainty!
Definiteness!
Inexorability!
Assuredness!
All Probability!
Foreordination!
Prophecy!
Fate!
Destiny!
Predetermination!

Assemble! Together, we will be as certain to defeat these Player Characters as a CR +4 Encounter!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/inevitable

[Klorox]

Well, a caster abusing those spells would get enemies among his planar boud victims' friends... and at worst he might get visits from inevitables

[DM_DM]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

Does anyone's campaign include outsiders dedicated to punishing mortal spellcasters who abuse Planar Binding (whether murdering the outsider after they do their job, Stone to Flesh a succubus after receiving a profane gift, or Efreeti wish shenanigans)?

Not as such, but I like where you're going with this. In my Guide to the Diabolist and Guide to Planar Binding, I mention the possibility of outsiders organizing to curb-stomp you if you get too uppity, but I don't go into anything like this level of detail.

Quote:

Efreeti Enforcers: Working out of the Mage's Quarter of the City of Brass under the aegis of Grand Vizier, this group of Efreeti take revenge on spellcasters who do not bargain fairly for the wishes they receive. They rely on reporting from offended Efreeti, as well as divination when one fails to report for annual musters. When a target is identified, several Efreeti with class levels prepare an ambush around a Dimensional Locked killing ground, then have their mortal slaves use granted Wishes to transport the magician to his fate. Those who surrender are enslaved, those who resist are killed and their corpse paraded through the Grand Bazaar. So efficient, consistent, and well known is the operation that only the most powerful, cautious, or insane mortal spellcasters dare to coerce Efreeti into wishes rather than bargain (un)fairly.

Yeah, I think there almost has to be something like this. Otherwise any mope who can cast Planar Binding can get a free Wish. Gotta figure that the Efreeti, a Lawful Evil race of arrogant, malevolent creatures, would have long since shut that down.

Quote:

Diabolic Department of Discipline: Special units of devils take reports of disappeared or abused minions of the Archdevils. The devils, however, play a more subtle game with their quarry. First they observe, then they approach to offer a deal. If this fails, local agents on the relevant material plane may be tasked for revenge. Only in extremis do the Pit Fiends who lead these units use their precious annual Wishes to pull the perpetrators in for punishment.

Wishes are much less of an issue here, because only Pit Fiends can grant them, and there aren't going to be a lot of mortal casters that can call these guys -- you need to be at least 15th level and also have some sort of bump, either the Augment Calling feat or a Caller's Feather or three levels of Blackfire Adept. The bigger issue from Hell's POV is that the mortal caster is dragging employees away from their jobs and using them for their own mortal purposes. I definitely think Hell would have a whole array of tactics for this, ranging from complex and subtle to "screw it, a couple of advanced Cornugons plane-shift in and the offending wizard disappears in an expanding cloud of plasma". Hell being all about corruption, domination, and bad deals, I would guess that there are probably agents -- either devils or mortal servants -- who are tasked specifically with approaching mortal spellcasters and recruiting them.

Quote:

Abyssal Avengers: Demons lack the organization and individual accountability of Efreeti and Devils, but cabals of Nalfeshnee dedicated to the honor of the Abyss work randomly to punish those mortal offenders who their oracles (or reports from vengeful demons) reveal have repeatedly insulted or destroyed demons. Their Glabrezu partners force humanoid slaves to Wish for the transport of these offenders, where they are destroyed or corrupted - often by the offer of a treacherous wish from another Glabrezu.

I'm in near total agreement on this: it would be the nalfeshnee doing it, and they'd probably work with Glabrezu (who have the most to lose). Against midlevel casters, a Succubus with character levels could also be extremely powerful -- caster levels let a Succubus crank her Bluffs and her save DCs into the stratosphere, and it should be pretty easy for the demon to impersonate someone harmless and get close. (Killing a colleague or cohort of the wizard and taking their place would probably be a go-to tactic.)

Quote:

I'm not sure the celestials need a similar organization, but if their personnel are getting abused I'm sure they would have similar approaches. In any case, GMs trying to rein in player abuses should consider developing one of these ideas and spreading it as common knowledge among the magical populace.

Firm agreement!

I see some people are suggesting that the Inevitables might step in. I'm less sure. If a Chaotic Evil wizard is abusing a bunch of demons, I think the Inevitables would shrug and move on. More generally, "stopping someone from gaming the system" doesn't seem like a very Inevitable sort of thing. They've got enough on their perfectly and precisely circular plates.

Finally, I'll note the one group that probably *wouldn't* have something like this: elementals. Most of them are dumb as dirt, and they don't seem to organize well. Also, plain vanilla elementals have weak Will saves and no Sense Motive, so it's painfully easy for a wizard to convince them of some nonsense or other.

Doug M.

[The Sideromancer]

In another thread, it was (somewhat jokingly) brought up that the Machine Armory demiplane is used as a staging ground for "Astral Cleanup" (i.e. disposing of wizards who make too many permanent demiplanes). I, personally, like the idea, and it's not a huge stretch to imagine them teaming up with the Inevitables to keep binders reasonable.

[Ventnor]

I could see this concept working for a mid-to-high level campaign. With the PCs as the officers, I mean.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Innevitables wouldn't necessarily come after for "gaming the system," but they would for specific offenses. Like immortality inevitables. Etc.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

I have absolutely no interest in the adventures of:

CSI:
CHEESE PREVENTION UNIT.

[MageHunter]

When the devils REALLY mean business they get an inevitable to notarize their contracts...

[Brolof]

What about Aeons? I could see them getting involved if someone does this a bunch.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

The Aeons are nicely vague about why they do what they do. But sure, you could justify a couple doing a random attack if there's some sort of cosmic imbalance getting started from your actions.

[Ryzoken]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

I have absolutely no interest in the adventures of:

CSI:
CHEESE PREVENTION UNIT.

What about Law and Order: Planar Victims Unit?

[Pizza Lord]

I did make a reskin of the Immolation Devil in a thread for fun. It's called the Castigator Devil and it specializes in punishing those who seek to cheat Hell, whether by trying to get out of bargains for planar ally/binding or try to renege on selling their souls by hunting down the devil holding the contract..

Reskin a Monster! thread.

[Ad In News' Clothing]

Pizza Lord wrote:

I did make a reskin of the Immolation Devil in a thread for fun. It's called the Castigator Devil and it specializes in punishing those who seek to cheat Hell, whether by trying to get out of bargains for planar ally/binding or try to renege on selling their souls by hunting down the devil holding the contract..

Reskin a Monster! thread.

Have YOU been cheated out of your hard-earned souls? They need to be tortured and tortured and tortured! Call Phlegm Badder, the Nessus Torturer, the tough, smart torturer! He pushes the right pressure points to get 'em to cough up all the souls they owe YOU! Conjure TODAY!

[Plausible Pseudonym]

A related idea is Planar Life Insurance. It takes a very long time to produce a Pit Fiend (traditionally 666 years to promote a lower form), and only a Wish to bring one back. Pit Fiends can cast Wish once per year. Couldn't there be an organization dedicated to resurrecting those who manage to get themselves killed? Sure, it's Hell and you're evil, but why waste a resource? Just torture a resurrected Pit Fiend for a couple of centuries as punishment and encouragement to do better. Don't let his death make him a total waste.

It's harder to imagine demons or daemons doing this (and their high level outsiders don't have the capacity as a standard feature), but Solars get Wish 1/day, Star Archons can prepare Miracle (and Heaven surely can afford some gemstones), and they can't all be that busy all the time. Rotate a couple through life insurance duty every couple of centuries.

This has further implications for mortals thinking of offing powerful outsiders. It might take a few years before someone in the extraplanar bureaucracy realizes someone on detached duty hasn't reported in, but eventually they'll bring him back and learn who did it. Maybe use Imprisonment to make returning it to action harder and have it less pissed off once it's back on the prowl.

[Tacticslion]

DM_DM wrote:

Wishes are much less of an issue here, because only Pit Fiends can grant them, and there aren't going to be a lot of mortal casters that can call these guys -- you need to be at least 15th level and also have some sort of bump, either the Augment Calling feat or a Caller's Feather or three levels of Blackfire Adept. The bigger issue from Hell's POV is that the mortal caster is dragging employees away from their jobs and using them for their own mortal purposes. I definitely think Hell would have a whole array of tactics for this, ranging from complex and subtle to "screw it, a couple of advanced Cornugons plane-shift in and the offending wizard disappears in an expanding cloud of plasma". Hell being all about corruption, domination, and bad deals, I would guess that there are probably agents -- either devils or mortal servants -- who are tasked specifically with approaching mortal spellcasters and recruiting them.

Actually, Hell definitely has a plan in mind, because there's a whole class of devil explicitly built to do this exact thing at a much lower CL: contract devils. In order to prevent problems, they're out there to make contracts with foo's to grant wishes.