This spell seems super overpowered, and I wondering if it was banned in pfs.
Thanks.
According to Archives of Nethys it is legal, and I haven't seen any mention of it being banned elsewhere. Hope this helps!
The Additional Resources entry for the Advanced Player Guide:
Alchemical Allocation is really not so overpowering as you're concerned of, as long as you actually pay attention to the action economy requirements of potions or doubled-up extracts.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player's Guide
All playtest versions of the six new base classes from this book are no longer legal for play as of 8/3/10. Anyone playing the playtest version of one of the six new base classes must have updated his or her character as of 8/3/10. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.As of 4/27/15 the summoner class in this book is no longer legal for play. A summoner character that has played at least once at level 2 or higher by this date qualfies to continue using this version of the class. Otherwise, only the summoner in Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained is legal for play.
The following parts of the Advanced Player's Guide are NOT legal for play: craftsman alternate Dwarven racial trait, practicality alternate Halfling racial trait, heart of the fields alternate Human racial trait, Alchemist's Brew Potion class ability (he receives Extra Bombs instead as a bonus feat), Cavalier's Expert Trainer class ability (he receives Skill Focus [Handle Animal] instead as a bonus feat), Witch's Cauldron hex, Antipaladin alternate class, Cooperative Crafting feat, all cursed magic items and artifacts, the Hero Point new rule and associated feats, spells, and magic items
As of March 30, 2016, the philter of love is no longer legal for play.
Note: The nature oracle replaces awaken with animal growth
Which is why you have your familiar do it for you >:D
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...Do what for you? Unlike wands, your familiar has no way to bypass the action economy for you here.
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...Do what for you? Unlike wands, your familiar has no way to bypass the action economy for you here.
Del_Taco, it might not be immediately clear but there are no wands of spells that only appear on the alchemist list. Alchemists do not technically have a caster level so they are not eligible to take the Craft Wand feat. Therefore there are no alchemists making wands for you to buy.
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.
Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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...Do what for you? Unlike wands, your familiar has no way to bypass the action economy for you here.
Have the familiar shove the potion down your throat? You definitely have enough actions to do it on one turn if you do it that way. Mind you Alchemical Allocations true power is when you have a 1000gp potion that you need to share between the entire party.
Alchemical allocation essentially takes a move and two standard actions. That's roughly on par with the Arcanist's quick study. It's a little more limited because you have to apply extracts to it, and you are limited by the potions or extracts you have on hand, and their caster level.
While you are brewing your own, AA really comes in handy when you are using potions not on your list.
... Mind you Alchemical Allocations true power is when you have a 1000gp potion that you need to share between the entire party.
AA is personal, so you need infusions to be able to do this to everybody else and that makes the action economy worse. Plus, how many people are willing to drink dwarf spit?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I don't see anything in the rules where its a full round action outside of person being unconscious.Full round action to apply a potion to someone else.
Round 1: Move to pull potion, Standard to start feeding
Round 2: Standard to finish feeding, move to pull new potion.
Round 3: Full round to feed potion.
That really isn't action economy.
AA is personal, so you need infusions to be able to do this to everybody else and that makes the action economy worse. Plus, how many people are willing to drink dwarf spit?
It was either that or be completely useless during the entire scenario and probably force a TPK.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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The issue with Alchemical Allocation is not so much the action economy, but
(1) numerous scenarios give let you purchase a higher-CL potion (e.g. Barkskin at +4 AC) once, AA allows you to reuse this infinitely;
(2) at least one scenario brings the PCs in touch with the Sun Orchid Elixir...
This is probably not overpowered, but it strikes me as a loophole that the writer of the additional resource document hadn't considered.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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The issue with Alchemical Allocation is not so much the action economy, but
(1) numerous scenarios give let you purchase a higher-CL potion (e.g. Barkskin at +4 AC) once, AA allows you to reuse this infinitely;
(2) at least one scenario brings the PCs in touch with the Sun Orchid Elixir...
This is probably not overpowered, but it strikes me as a loophole that the writer of the additional resource document hadn't considered.
No it's not. They are amply aware given that they do ban Alchemical Allocation in certain instances. I'm entirely surprised that the Sun Orchid Elixir isn't such a case but then again that plotline does grant access to a lesser version of it.
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The main problem is that allocation opens other classes' spell lists. There are a ton of great buffs there no matter the 3rd lvl restriction. Once you get enough cash(or PP, a potion of good hope is just 750 gp), it's easy enough to turn the class into a spontaneous caster of sorts, where you just memorize allocations and pick from your ever-expanding list of spit-back potions.
Okay, that's just disgusting.
Anyway, there's always the matter of action economy, but I don't really see how it's relevant with these 3/4 buff classes anyway. Been playing for 8 years and I've always just topped up once I get an advance warning anyway. Sometimes you get surprised, but it's so damn rare. YMMV, of course.
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The main problem is that allocation opens other classes' spell lists. There are a ton of great buffs there no matter the 3rd lvl restriction. Once you get enough cash(or PP, a potion of good hope is just 750 gp), it's easy enough to turn the class into a spontaneous caster of sorts, where you just memorize allocations and pick from your ever-expanding list of spit-back potions.
A potion of good hope is 1050 gp and can't be bought with PP, but your point stands. This is a very economical way of (re)using those rare potions.
However there is a soft cap on how many alchemical allocation extracts you will end up preparing. Many of the most commonly used potions are also on the alchemist extract list and unless you find unusually high CL potions, you are better off just preparing them as an extract since the CL will be higher (barkskin, for example).
And every alchemical allocation you prepare is a slot you can't use for something else. I made extensive use of alchemical allocation on my alchemist and even at level 11 I never prepared more than 2 or 3. Because I'd rather prepare false life and see invisibility.
In a large part it will depend on how many "generically useful" potions you find at a high CL. And unless you are chronicle fishing it probably won't be that many. I was lucky enough to find a high-CL shield of faith but never found one for barkskin on that character - though several of my other characters did.
Anyway, there's always the matter of action economy, but I don't really see how it's relevant with these 3/4 buff classes anyway. Been playing for 8 years and I've always just topped up once I get an advance warning anyway. Sometimes you get surprised, but it's so damn rare. YMMV, of course.
This is unusual in my PFS play experience. There are many situations that *may* result in combat but might not. If you "top off" (buff up) before every such situation you will quickly run out of extracts.
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Some Alchemists are casters...
But the assumption for buying gear is that they are not. Nowadays it's possible to get just about any class feature or spell onto another class with the right combination of archetypes, feats, prestige classes, class options, and gear.
When it comes to buying stuff PFS deliberately assumes that you are buying from a "vanilla" version of that class. For both simplicity and for the sake of balance.
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It's a second level extract that lets a character use a third level spell with a low caster level, and poor action economy. The following level wizards get 3rd level spells.
So I would say maybe at level 4 it's a little op. And gets less so every level after that.
If you want funny powerful. Use it with Seishinru, Spirit Elixir if you have a chance to prebuff
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1. Use it on a 1200 gp elixir of darksight.1.5. Hand out 5 infused alchemical allocations to your teammates and pass around the bottle.
2. Drop deeper darkness.
3. Profit.
THis is what you use it for.
And bear in mind there is a potion of stoneskin in society play.get a potion of heroism and now cast heroism as a 2nd level extract.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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...Do what for you? Unlike wands, your familiar has no way to bypass the action economy for you here.Have the familiar shove the potion down your throat? You definitely have enough actions to do it on one turn if you do it that way. Mind you Alchemical Allocations true power is when you have a 1000gp potion that you need to share between the entire party.
The only time you are allowed to administer a potion to another creature is when that creature is unconscious.
...Do what for you? Unlike wands, your familiar has no way to bypass the action economy for you here.
Poisoners gloves. Familiar buffs me with alch. allocation and I use a swift action to drink a potion. There most certainly is a way to "break" the action economy, if you consider someone else casting buffs for you, that is.
Poisoners gloves. Familiar buffs me with alch. allocation.Re-read Alchemical Allocation there, friendo.
Casting AA, then drinking a potion immediately after does nothing. You gotta wait until next round.
Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.
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Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.
As a significant fan of AA, I'll explain the other limitation beyond the fact that there's no way to remove the 1-round delay on drinking a potion. It sucks having to keep that potion in your hand after you've drank it. No use of bows, no use of two-handed weapons, no use of the claw/claw/bite attack. Sure you can drop bombs, but not all Alchemists do that.
Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.As a significant fan of AA, I'll explain the other limitation beyond the fact that there's no way to remove the 1-round delay on drinking a potion. It sucks having to keep that potion in your hand after you've drank it. No use of bows, no use of two-handed weapons, no use of the claw/claw/bite attack. Sure you can drop bombs, but not all Alchemists do that.
I plan on just dropping the potion and quick drawing a weapon.
I plan on just dropping the potion and quick drawing a weapon.Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.As a significant fan of AA, I'll explain the other limitation beyond the fact that there's no way to remove the 1-round delay on drinking a potion. It sucks having to keep that potion in your hand after you've drank it. No use of bows, no use of two-handed weapons, no use of the claw/claw/bite attack. Sure you can drop bombs, but not all Alchemists do that.
Sounds like that would be risky, as anyone can grab it.
You do that.
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Sounds like that would be risky, as anyone can grab it.I plan on just dropping the potion and quick drawing a weapon.Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.As a significant fan of AA, I'll explain the other limitation beyond the fact that there's no way to remove the 1-round delay on drinking a potion. It sucks having to keep that potion in your hand after you've drank it. No use of bows, no use of two-handed weapons, no use of the claw/claw/bite attack. Sure you can drop bombs, but not all Alchemists do that.
Not to mention it potentially breaking when it hits the ground.
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Not to mention it potentially breaking when it hits the ground.Sounds like that would be risky, as anyone can grab it.I plan on just dropping the potion and quick drawing a weapon.Possibly, and no need to debate that, but all I have to do is drink on my next round. I have spend a total of one swift action to activate the buff.As a significant fan of AA, I'll explain the other limitation beyond the fact that there's no way to remove the 1-round delay on drinking a potion. It sucks having to keep that potion in your hand after you've drank it. No use of bows, no use of two-handed weapons, no use of the claw/claw/bite attack. Sure you can drop bombs, but not all Alchemists do that.
Potion vials can (and should) be made of metal. Add in that there's no real mechanic for this and why would it break?
Someone taking it is another matter entirely, and quite plausible.
Metal vials cost more IIRC so you shouldn't assume all of them are made of metal.
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I try very hard not to be a "hah-hah! Gotcha!" GM, so I'm not going to say "it shatters on impact" or come up with other ways to destroy the potion vial. If you happen to be holding a (freshly drawn) potion and decide to drop it as a free action it will be probably be fine.
However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.
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I try very hard not to be a "hah-hah! Gotcha!" GM, so I'm not going to say "it shatters on impact" or come up with other ways to destroy the potion vial. If you happen to be holding a (freshly drawn) potion and decide to drop it as a free action it will be probably be fine.
However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.
Generally I will agree with this. However, I will not just say, "its fine." I'll warn the player of potential repercussions.
There are mechanics for dropping items in the falling rules, and rules for how many hit points and hardness glass has in the damaging items rules.
At some point, even in PFS, a GM needs to be able to extrapolate the rules to create a common sense ruling when something is done that isn't really covered in the rules. Glass breaks when it is dropped onto something hard. Drop it on spongy grassy meadow? Fine. On a cobblestone street? Not so much.
Secondly, while I have allowed it before, in PFS, items that are purchased are assumed to be the standard, cheapest option. In this case, glass vials are cheaper than metal ones, and so you can't just choose to have all your potions in metal vials.
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However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.
Imagine, this is enough of a thing that there's a magic item to help with this exact issue.
I challenge the OP to drop his potion at most of the tables I play at and see how the GM adjudicates it. To the original point, of course the spell is overpowered if you try to engineer every corner case to exploit it.
I try very hard not to be a "hah-hah! Gotcha!" GM, so I'm not going to say "it shatters on impact" or come up with other ways to destroy the potion vial. If you happen to be holding a (freshly drawn) potion and decide to drop it as a free action it will be probably be fine.
However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.
Generally I will agree with this. However, I will not just say, "its fine." I'll warn the player of potential repercussions.
There are mechanics for dropping items in the falling rules, and rules for how many hit points and hardness glass has in the damaging items rules.
At some point, even in PFS, a GM needs to be able to extrapolate the rules to create a common sense ruling when something is done that isn't really covered in the rules. Glass breaks when it is dropped onto something hard. Drop it on spongy grassy meadow? Fine. On a cobblestone street? Not so much.
Secondly, while I have allowed it before, in PFS, items that are purchased are assumed to be the standard, cheapest option. In this case, glass vials are cheaper than metal ones, and so you can't just choose to have all your potions in metal vials.
Iron potion vials are pfs legal. Any reason why I can't buy one?
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However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.Imagine, this is enough of a thing that there's a magic item to help with this exact issue.
Not quite following you. Are you saying there is currently a published magic item to help with that? Or that you imagine someone could make one to help with the issue?
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To me, the funniest part of this entire "drop a potion" thing is that I normally have an unseen servant running with standing instructions to bring me things that people drop. Normally it is to retrieve weapons that I have disarmed from enemy NPCs - but I can see it scooping up these potion bottles too. I hope you have these marked as to what they are, otherwise they are getting all mixed up 'cause Jeeves is just going to be putting them in my haversack.
There are mechanics for dropping items in the falling rules, and rules for how many hit points and hardness glass has in the damaging items rules.
Glass vials have to fall at least 10 feet to take damage? Or are there different falling object rules that I've missed?
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Not quite following you. Are you saying there is currently a published magic item to help with that? Or that you imagine someone could make one to help with the issue?
There is now, as of last night at least when I started flipping through the new Campaign Setting book, a magic item explicitly designed to let you drop open potions on the ground without having them spill.
IMHO - once it's codified in an item that something happens, even if you can't point to the explicit rule that says, "when you drop an open potion vial it spills onto the ground", the common sense rule has a legitimate reference.
Iron potion vials are pfs legal. Any reason why I can't buy one?I try very hard not to be a "hah-hah! Gotcha!" GM, so I'm not going to say "it shatters on impact" or come up with other ways to destroy the potion vial. If you happen to be holding a (freshly drawn) potion and decide to drop it as a free action it will be probably be fine.
However, dropping an opened vial without stoppering it is almost certainly going to cause the liquid to spill out. If you are putting it away normally as a move action I'm not going to force you to spend another action to stopper it. But dropping is free. You need some kind of action to put the stopper back.
Generally I will agree with this. However, I will not just say, "its fine." I'll warn the player of potential repercussions.
There are mechanics for dropping items in the falling rules, and rules for how many hit points and hardness glass has in the damaging items rules.
At some point, even in PFS, a GM needs to be able to extrapolate the rules to create a common sense ruling when something is done that isn't really covered in the rules. Glass breaks when it is dropped onto something hard. Drop it on spongy grassy meadow? Fine. On a cobblestone street? Not so much.
Secondly, while I have allowed it before, in PFS, items that are purchased are assumed to be the standard, cheapest option. In this case, glass vials are cheaper than metal ones, and so you can't just choose to have all your potions in metal vials.
Do iron potion vials automatically stopper themselves?
There are tons of things that are normally fine but become overpowered if you try to game and abuse the system to get extreme corner cases. How is this any different?
-j