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So, a bit late to the party, but recently there was a thread asking for the strongest conceivable build dipping a ton of classes. I hate multiclassing to any great degree, as keeping track of a thousand class features slows down play for me. But it seemed like a fun exercise. After spending a couple hours theorycrafting, this is the best I could come up with, and I have to say, I think its truly powerful. Without further ado, this is the strongest multiclass build I could come up with, condensed to the essentials, no items.
Halfling 12 Monk (Sensei), Hunter, Fighter, Cavalier
Stats: Str - 8 (-2 Racial), Dex 16 (+2 racial), Con 10, Int 10, Wis 21 (+3 levels), Cha 8 (-2 Racial Bonus)
HP - 78
AC - 20 (20 Touch, 11 Flat), 30 Fighting Defensively
Saves - 15/12/11
Traits: Helpful (Halfling), Fools for Friends
Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Dodge , Cautious Fighter; Advice
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes
Fighter3: Blundering Defense, Crane Style
Fighter 4: Bodyguard
Hunter 5: Crane Wing; Spell Level 1, Animal Companion, Animal Focus
Hunter 6: Outflank
Hunter 7: Dirty Fighting, Pack Flanking
Cavalier 8: Broken Wing Gambit
Hunter 9:Boon Companion; Spell Level 2
Hunter 10: N/A
Hunter 11: Paired Opportunists, Lookout
Hunter 12: N/A; Spell Level 3
So, quick rundown on how this works. Basically, level 1, you're just a little chained monk who can't even flurry. Low hp, low to-hit, low damage, the best thing you've got going for you is your advice ability to buff, your surprisingly high DC on your stunning fist with 18 Wis, and your incredible AC of 18, which jumps to 22 when you fight defensively.
The MAIN benefit however, comes from your traits. The halfling version of the helpful trait boosts your aid another to a whopping +4, and the Fools for Friends adds an additional +1, plus a little bonus against charms and compulsions. This gives us a total of +5 to our nearest big guy's AC or attack rolls. But for now, just try not to get killed.
Level 2, our Sensei Archetype gives us Insightful Strike, which basically lets us use our wisdom for attack rolls and combat maneuvers. Since we're not looking to output the damage, this lets us hit far easier with our stunning fists, and will be useful at later levels.
Level 3 is where we really start to come online. With three ranks in acrobatics, crane style, and cautious fighter, our fighting defensively gives us a whopping +6 to ac. Blundering defense lets us extend half of this benefit to our allies, giving anyone we stand next to a +3 to AC.
Level 4, we get bodyguard. This is huge. Now, spending our attacks of opportunity whenever an opponent attacks an adjacent ally, we can aid another. Which, you'll remember, comes at a massive +5. With bodyguard proccing on an adjacent ally, we're giving them +8 AC.
Level 5 is where we're officially little badasses, and fully online for the support side of this build. Crane Wing allows you a massive +4 dodge bonus to your AC when you fight defensively, so long as no one gets close to hitting you that turn (easier said than done with a +10 fighting defensively). Now, remember how Blundering gives your adjacent allies half that? Yeah, defending with bodyguard, you're now giving your barbarian friend a +10 to AC. You're also giving it to the mount you just acquired.
Now, there are two main choices for your animal companion. Pick wisely, as he's going to be the main source of your damage for the rest of this build.
Wolf will give you greater supression on enemies through tripping, and will have stronger attacks of opportunity through his stronger power attack, as he only has one natural attack, and its primary. This is a more supportive, more teamwork focused choice. I recommend the bodyguard archetype if you're planning to get to high levels.
A big cat, such as a lion or a tiger, will eventually gain pounce, and will simply have the best all-around stats to serve as a damage machine. With the massive boosts to AC you'll be giving it, and the ability to augment its attacks through animal focus, teamwork feats, and magic, this will be one terrifying kitty. I recommend no archetype for this one, as evasion and multiattack are more useful.
Either way, you can ride both the first level you get them, as you're small. Just mind their low hp, and your lack of the mounted combat to protect them. Don't bring them near if you're expecting fireballs. Level 6 is pretty much a dead level for us. We get outflank, but without a means to share it, its pretty much only useful if the barbarian or fighter took it, which given how much they love you, they might have!
Level 7, we get the important ability to share our teamwork feats with our animal companion. This is a MASSIVE power boost. Allow me to explain. Dirty Fighting lets us bypass the prerequisites for Pack Flanking, and gives us a huge boon itself. Now, at this point, you've got a high wisdom, and your wisdom counts as your offensive stat for all combat maneuvers. Dirty Fighting lets you whip out any combat maneuver you want, so long as you're flanking an enemy. Pack flanking lets you flank an enemy from any position so long as you're adjacent to an ally who shares the teamwork feat. Your mount is always adjacent, and shares this feat. Outflank raises the bonuses for flanking to +4. So, what does this all mean? YOU AND YOUR MOUNT RECEIVE A CONSTANT +4 ON ALL ATTACKS AND MANEUVERS, AND YOU CAN WHIP OUT ANY MANEUVER YOU WANT USING YOUR STRONGEST STAT, WITHOUT PROVOKING ANY ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY. You're now genuinely terrifying, and your mount has some much-needed offensive love.
Level 8, we get Broken Wing Gambit through the cavalier's tactician ability. Very simply, you only want your mount to be using this at this level, as you don't get as much benefit from provoking attacks. Your mount, however, can now lash out every time its attacked.
Level 9, your animal companion is now fully badass. Boon companion brings our effective druid level up to our character level, making our mount of choice large-sized, and bearing some rather massive boosts in stats, feats and overall power. Your mount is an absolute monster now. Consider Narrow Frame, to let him go into the dungeons you may be treading with more ease.
Level 10 is another dead level, but we're getting stronger, and should be well above the curve in terms of power.
Level 11 is truly obscene. Paired opportunists gives you and your animal companion ANOTHER +4 to attacks of opportunity. Combined with broken wing gambit, which I encourage both you and your companion to starts using at this point, BOTH you and your animal companion get to use an attack of opportunity when EITHER of you is attacked. And since you can use any type of maneuver you like, this can take the form of you knocking an enemy on their ass with the +8 trip while your wolf power attack bites them. Its a preventative measure for damage with even more offense, as no one will want to take a swing when they see what you can do. In addition, if you took the bodyguard archetype, lookout will now ensure that BOTH you and your animal can take full rounds in any surprise round. Theres no surprising either of you. If you took the cat, consider trading this out for toughness. More HP will always be appreciated.
Level 12, we simply get 3rd level spells. Which at least scale with our obscene wisdom, and will likely be mostly buffs. We are a walking +5 bonus to pretty much everything attempted, riding a tempest of fangs. Fear us.
TLDR:
Pros - Powerful by 5th level, great saves, amazing ac, versatile with the ability to get class skills in all knowledge, social and physical skills. Pretty much everything you'd want is on the list. Awesome team player who will be the favorite of your front liners. In addition, the focus on only two stats and innately massive ac lets you focus your wealth into decking out your animal companion, more than even a full hunter could.
Cons - Squishy, unless min-maxxed for extra con. Which is definitely an option, you don't need the strength or charisma. Level 9 before you truly start dealing a lot of damage by yourself.
Paranoid Oldman wrote: Gearing? Headband/Belt of Wisdom/Dexterity, as high as you can go. Throw on some cheap +armor items if you find them necessary. But you should have the highest AC in the party by a wide margin just through class features.
You may buy an amulet, but it'll be for your mount. Exotic saddle, if you chose the cat. Consider not buying armor proficiency, and just giving your cat some mithral chain. Or, if you're really willing to invest, a Mithral breastplate.
Ring of evasion, if you've saved up a ton, and anything else your heart desires. Build is mostly self-sufficient.
Does your fighter have an archetype?
The Eldritch Guardian gets a familiar, that you can can give an archetype as well- the Protector archetype can help you.
Mauler archetype gets access to your feats as well.
the Drill Sergeant acts as a Cavalier almost- it doesn't get the Mount or the Order, but it still gets the Tactician ability.
If you were daring enough to NOT flood the tables Action Economy with Yourself, your Animal Companion, you Mount, and possibly a hostile Mauler familiar; you could go Beast Rider Cavalier archetype and ride your animal companion effectively.
Also, depending on the Order you choose as a Cavalier, it may be worthwhile to go more levels into Cavalier; the Order of the Dragon's 2nd cavalier level excels at aiding allies- you could boost their AC even more!
pack flanking wrote: Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion. dirty fighting wrote: Special:This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites. Nope, Dirty Fighting's not a prereq cureall. Pack Flanking mentions nothing about combat maneuver feats. Sorry.
Switch out the two fighter levels to brawler and you won't need 13 int.
I'm curious as to how you're getting Combat Reflexes at level 2. The Sensei Archetype removes the monk bonus feat at that level, and you don't get a normal leveling feat until Character Level 3.
Honor Guard Cavalier archetype might be of interest too. Sworn defense first level power allows you to take -1 AC and grant +1 AC to your ward. At thrid level he gest Bodyguard as a bonus feat.
Found another minor error: You need lv5 Monk or BAB +5 to get Crane Wing; Since you only have 2 levels of Monk, you'd need BAB +5 which you don't get with this build until that third Hunter Level (Character Level 7)
So, swap Dirty Fighting (which has no prereqs) and Crane Wing, and that's fine. As for the Combat Reflexes? I'd say drop Lookout and at lv11 get Paired Opportunists as the Hunter Bonus and Combat Reflexes as the level 11 feat.
I'm also rather curious as to how you reached the base saves you have listed, I came out to just +13/+8/+5, or +14/+9/+6 with the Halfling Luck racial bonus.
That HP total seems. . .off. 9d8+3d10, using PFS would be 66, plus maybe 7 for Hunter favored class for 73 total. Not sure where the last 5 points are from.
Be aware: "Fools for Friends" isn't a normal trait, it's a Campaign Trait from the Second Darkness AP.
And lastly. . .what point buy is that using? The array of 10/14/10/10/18/10 looks like a 22 point buy. . .which is really odd.
Selvaxri wrote: Does your fighter have an archetype?
The Eldritch Guardian gets a familiar, that you can can give an archetype as well- the Protector archetype can help you.
Mauler archetype gets access to your feats as well.
the Drill Sergeant acts as a Cavalier almost- it doesn't get the Mount or the Order, but it still gets the Tactician ability.
If you were daring enough to NOT flood the tables Action Economy with Yourself, your Animal Companion, you Mount, and possibly a hostile Mauler familiar; you could go Beast Rider Cavalier archetype and ride your animal companion effectively.
Also, depending on the Order you choose as a Cavalier, it may be worthwhile to go more levels into Cavalier; the Order of the Dragon's 2nd cavalier level excels at aiding allies- you could boost their AC even more!
Yeah, this was intended more as a proof of concept than a fully optimized build. And I'm sure the annoyance of my table at waiting for me to finish my move would be dwarfed only by my own. On the order of the dragon, unfortunately, the wording isn't a flat bonus to aid another, it actually replaces the +2 with a +3. It won't beat the siple trait combination until level 20, and then only by +1.
avr wrote: pack flanking wrote: Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion. dirty fighting wrote: Special:This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites. Nope, Dirty Fighting's not a prereq cureall. Pack Flanking mentions nothing about combat maneuver feats. Sorry. Took me a moment to realize what you were talking about. You're absolutely right, I've been using dirty fighting to complement trip builds so long I forgot the exact wording. Ah well... back to the drawing board. Still, think I'm on to something with a bit of tweaking.
Espy Lacopa wrote: Found another minor error: You need lv5 Monk or BAB +5 to get Crane Wing; Since you only have 2 levels of Monk, you'd need BAB +5 which you don't get with this build until that third Hunter Level (Character Level 7)
So, swap Dirty Fighting (which has no prereqs) and Crane Wing, and that's fine. As for the Combat Reflexes? I'd say drop Lookout and at lv11 get Paired Opportunists as the Hunter Bonus and Combat Reflexes as the level 11 feat.
Ah, thats fair. Suppose I also have the option of making it an unchained monk, and maybe somehow squeezing in weapon finesse? At high levels, the massive flank bonuses and almost full bab may allow me to get away with - attribute investment. At low levels, he's more of an AC aura buff anyways. I've got some reconsideration to do.
Espy Lacopa wrote:
I'm also rather curious as to how you reached the base saves you have listed, I came out to just +13/+8/+5, or +14/+9/+6 with the Halfling Luck racial bonus.
That HP total seems. . .off. 9d8+3d10, using PFS would be 66, plus maybe 7 for Hunter favored class for 73 total. Not sure where the last 5 points are from.
Be aware: "Fools for Friends" isn't a normal trait, it's a Campaign Trait from the Second Darkness AP.
And lastly. . .what point buy is that using? The array of 10/14/10/10/18/10 looks like a 22 point buy. . .which is really odd.
A: Simple sleep deprivation and me having written down a more optimized stat array in a word document, then not translating it properly to the chat box.
B: Not sure how PFS goes, but I did 8+5*8+6*3. Full hp, then a rounded up average per level. Stupidly gave myself an hp for every level, rather than just the ones I've got a favored class in, so theres the issue.
C: I'm fine with that. So long as its paizo official, I welcome it in my games. Which is a policy I think most dms follow? Maybe?
D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.
CryntheCrow wrote:
D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.
>_> How'd you get 7 charisma on a Halfling with point buy? They have a +2 Racial Bonus to it.
Even if that's a 7 before racial, that'd be a 17 pt buy (12/12/10/10/18/7 = 2+2+17-4). If you mixed it up, then yeah 20 pt buy would fit.
CryntheCrow wrote: C: I'm fine with that. So long as its paizo official, I welcome it in my games. Which is a policy I think most dms follow? Maybe? I'd say most leave Campaign Traits to the specified campaign - they're generally well overpowered compared to regular ones, and it keeps them special. For homebrew campaigns they could be adapted of course. Second Darkness campaign traits are among the more balanced though, since that was the original introduction of traits.
I have a similar Halfling in PFS (played two days ago actually), with rogue/monk/barb/cleric and heading for Halfling Opportunist to bump the Aid Another bonus.
FYI - I've found Bodyguard doesn't happen as much as I'd hoped, since you have to both be adjacent to the ally, and threaten the foe at the same time.
Espy Lacopa wrote: CryntheCrow wrote:
D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.
>_> How'd you get 7 charisma on a Halfling with point buy? They have a +2 Racial Bonus to it.
Even if that's a 7 before racial, that'd be a 17 pt buy (12/12/10/10/18/7 = 2+2+17-4). If you mixed it up, then yeah 20 pt buy would fit. No, no, I'm saying I BOUGHT the 7, which gets upgraded to a 9, which then goes to a 10 at 12 when I'm not going to see benefit from raising wisdom to 21. Moot point anyways, trying something new.
Majuba wrote: CryntheCrow wrote: C: I'm fine with that. So long as its paizo official, I welcome it in my games. Which is a policy I think most dms follow? Maybe? I'd say most leave Campaign Traits to the specified campaign - they're generally well overpowered compared to regular ones, and it keeps them special. For homebrew campaigns they could be adapted of course.
I have a similar Halfling in PFS (played two days ago actually), with rogue/monk/barb/cleric and heading for Halfling Opportunist to bump the Aid Another bonus.
FYI - I've found Bodyguard doesn't happen as much as I'd hoped, since you have to both be adjacent to the ally, and threaten the foe at the same time. Doesn't the opportunist only upgrade aid actions directed at themselves? Don't think they can make their allies any stronger, can they?
It's an 18 point-buy, the way you did it, FYI.
No - Halfling Opportunist applies to all Aid Another actions. Ack! You're right! That's horrible!
CryntheCrow wrote: Espy Lacopa wrote: CryntheCrow wrote:
D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.
>_> How'd you get 7 charisma on a Halfling with point buy? They have a +2 Racial Bonus to it.
Even if that's a 7 before racial, that'd be a 17 pt buy (12/12/10/10/18/7 = 2+2+17-4). If you mixed it up, then yeah 20 pt buy would fit. No, no, I'm saying I BOUGHT the 7, which gets upgraded to a 9, which then goes to a 10 at 12 when I'm not going to see benefit from raising wisdom to 21. Moot point anyways, trying something new. But that's then an 18 pt buy (5+17-4). I do find the build intriguing, So I'm nitpicking to figure out how to actually do it while still being mechanically sound.
Alright, obsessing less with dipping this time (but I still got 3 in), I've made a build thats a bit less well rounded, but perhaps stronger in its specialization, and more quickly going to realize it's power.
Halfling 12 (Fighter, Hunter, Cavalier)
HP - 124 (Favored Bonus Hunter)
AC - 22; 12 Touch, 20 Flat (Full Plate, Armor Training, Halfling Bonus)
Saves - +16 Fort, +9 Ref, +5 Will
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10
Traits: Fools for Friends, Helpful (Halfling)
Fighter 1: Cautious Fighter, Combat Reflexes
Fighter 2: Bodyguard
Fighter 3: Blundering Defense
Fighter 4: Combat Expertise
Hunter 5: Boon Companion
Hunter 6: Outflank
Hunter 7: Pack Flanking, Broken Wing Gambit
Cavalier 8:Paired Opportunists
Hunter 9: Improved Trip
Hunter 10: N/A
Hunter 11: Greater Trip, Tandem Trip
Hunter 12: N/A
Right, so I realized the dependence on Crane style was fine if being an ac aura was all we wanted, but in truth, by cutting back just a bit we can become more powerful at what we're wanting. For this version of the build, I'm picking your mount for you, its a Wolf at 7, axe beak at 5. Its simply the best option for what we're doing.
So, drawbacks. Lower saves due to the lack of monk, dependency on equipment to make up for these shortcomings, lowers overall AC buff. With this build, minus crane style, instead of fighting defensively, your go-to action will be to spend your standard to begin a total defense. With Cautious fighter and 3 ranks of acrobatics, this gives us a total of +8 to our ac. Blundering Defense gives adjacent allies +4 ac, an overall reduction of 1 AC. Proccing Bodyguard, we still give them a +9 against attacks.
Pros, we get our companion up to snuff the moment we get him at 5. 6 is still going to be a dead level for us, but where 4 completes the support side of the build in this version, 7 gets our damage completely online. Instantly, you have a large-sized wolf that grants/gets that wonderful Outflank bonus the moment you're riding him, and you both provoke AOOs any time someone attacks you. At 8, you BOTH provoke when someone attacks EITHER of you. With a wolf's single primary natural attack, he gets the best form of power attack on all of these.
Lets describe a level 11 scenario. Someone wanders into the range of the reach weapon you wield, provoking an attack of opportunity. You trip with a cumulative +12 to the roll from trip feats, paired and outflank (And the fact that you get to roll twice). Then, after tripping successfully, your wolf attacks with a +12 of his own, exploiting the prone status. But wait, you just tripped someone. Greater trip procs, you slash them with your weapon, and this provokes another bite attack from your wolf. If you crit on any of these? You both attack. They try to get up? You both attack. They swing at you? You both attack. Your animal focus can be spent on tiger, gaining you more AOOs, or snake, making your AOOs even more obscenely accurate.
You always get to be the ultimate wing man out of combat. Need help studying that new spell? +5. Seducing the comely lass at the tavern? +5. Disarming a trap? +5. Interrogating the suspect? You want good cop or bad cop?
Critiques, advice, discussion?
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