I love the idea of the Bloody-Knuckled Rowdy, I can think of a lot of cool characters throughout games and books that would fit into the archetype well. Unfortunately the archetype seems to give up way too much for way too little. I mean what style feats can it even qualify for at 2nd level?
The last time I thought an archetype that looked cool was bad you guys set me straight, so here's hoping that works again!
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Lets take a look.
does not gain damage reduction.
Is your end level high or not? PFS going to 12 is 2 DR, not huge thing to not get.
less spells known,
this hurts some. you still cast the same amount, but have fewer options. I personally don't think it's a big deal for our big guy.
IUS for fast movement,
now you're normal speed but a free feat like brawler class.
IUS damage as monk-2
Okay so here's our bonus for losing DR and spells known. Since the theme is IUS and assuming you use those this is a good feature.
Now the free style feat at lv2 that you have to qualify for, that makes it a choice of, crane style or outslug style that you can qualify that early for. a 1 level dip opens up many style, like dragon style. And master of many styles monk is great, get a free style to start and lets you fuse styles, really helps synergies with getting style master free. And you can wear armor without worry still.
my verdict. It's a fine archetype for what it's doing. It is the only way I know to have monk IUS damage and spells. Having a level dip can help it. But be sure to consider if this is better than being a monk IUS damage class with a dip into bloodrager and extra rage feat.
A 3-level dip into MoMS would get you you Fast Movement back, Evasion (which gels nicely with the Bloodrager's Blood Sanctuary feature), 2 bonus Style feats, Stunning Fist, Your Wisdom bonus to your AC and CMD, +3 to all saves, Fuse Style for 2 styles, and the Still Mind class feature, which qualifies you for Monastic Legacy, though I don't know how that would interact with the Bloody-Knuckle Rowdy's Monk damage. Even 2 levels still gets you most of that.
VMC Oracle (if you're allowed to both multiclass and VMC) for the Powerless Prophecy Curse would give you your Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge back as well as other things to play with depending on the Mystery you choose.
A Half-Elf would be an awesome choice for this with the Mordant Envoy and/or Multidisciplined alternate racials (with Multidisciplined and the Magical Knack trait, your caster level is only reduced by however many Monk levels you take!). Half-Elves also gain access to the Elf, Half-Elf, and Human Bloodrager Favoured Class Bonus choices; the Elf one is another way to make up for trading out Fast Movement, and the Human one can make up for dipping into a non-Rage class without using up a feat.
The issue with dipping into MoMS, though, is that it further delays your spellcasting and Bloodline powers and means you can't wear armour if you want Fast Movement and your Wis to AC/CMD, though you could wear light armour and still have Evasion (MoMS doesn't have Flurry anyway, so it might not matter if you wear light armour or mithral medium armour).
BKR is much better than sacred fist or what not. Arcane spells have a ton of synergy with natural attacks.
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and you're full bab and you have rage
Hmm, an unchained monk with qinggong powers is sort of covering the same niche, but "casts" in a different way. By the way, is there a ruling on brass knuckles taking the higher unarmed damage in such cases?
The BKR does have some issues. My main problem with it is that the natural choice for your style feat is dragon style. However you can't qualify for dragon ferocity as it requires stunning fist.
Thus you sorta have to dip one level of monk to make that happen.
The BKR does have some issues. My main problem with it is that the natural choice for your style feat is dragon style. However you can't qualify for dragon ferocity as it requires stunning fist.
Thus you sorta have to dip one level of monk to make that happen.
You know Stunning Fist is a feat, right? Monks just make it better.
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You know Stunning Fist is a feat, right? Monks just make it better.The BKR does have some issues. My main problem with it is that the natural choice for your style feat is dragon style. However you can't qualify for dragon ferocity as it requires stunning fist.
Thus you sorta have to dip one level of monk to make that happen.
True, but the requirements are steep. Dex 13, wis 13, and BAB +8 mean you are finishing the style any time soon.
A Half-Elf would be an awesome choice for this with the Mordant Envoy and/or Multidisciplined alternate racials (with Multidisciplined and the Magical Knack trait, your caster level is only reduced by however many Monk levels you take!)..
Bloodragers don't have the -3 caster level like Rangers and Paladins, so at level four their caster level should be four anyway, yes?
Bloodragers don't have the -3 caster level like Rangers and Paladins, so at level four their caster level should be four anyway, yes?
A Half-Elf would be an awesome choice for this with the Mordant Envoy and/or Multidisciplined alternate racials (with Multidisciplined and the Magical Knack trait, your caster level is only reduced by however many Monk levels you take!)..
You are correct! I guess I forgot about that. In that case, Magical Knack would make up for 2 levels in MoMS all by itself, and Multidisciplined on top of that would make up for 3.
Mordant Envoy is still a good one anyway, as transmutation spells are often buffs that Bloodragers use their spells for, and the SLAs are just icing on top. If you don't want Mordant Envoy, you can take Dual Minded for +2 to Will saves (or just take the Skill Focus feat from Adaptability, obviously). There are several other things that can replace Multitalented if you don't want Multidisciplined, and if you don't want any of that, Kindred-Raised might be nice for the +2 Charisma, though you're giving up most of your other racials for that as well.
True, but the requirements are steep. Dex 13, wis 13, and BAB +8 mean you are finishing the style any time soon.You know Stunning Fist is a feat, right? Monks just make it better.The BKR does have some issues. My main problem with it is that the natural choice for your style feat is dragon style. However you can't qualify for dragon ferocity as it requires stunning fist.
Thus you sorta have to dip one level of monk to make that happen.
This. And on a 20 pt. buy you'd be hard pressed to afford 13 CHA and 13 WIS.
To make a BKR you have to either choose a different Style Path or Dip to make it work.
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I think Outslug is perfect for a human.
is a scaled fist dip better than a dip of bloodrager onto the scaled fist?
I think Outslug is perfect for a human.
Doesn't come online any earlier than Dragon Ferocity though...also since you aren't getting bonus attacks from flurry those extra5 foot steps aren't all that impressive.
is a scaled fist dip better than a dip of bloodrager onto the scaled fist?
If you're dipping scaled fist into bloodrager you might as well do it with contact specialist...
If you want to be spellcaster that punches people, Sacred Fist warpriest is better. More casting, effectively full BAB from flurry+divine favor+bonus feats (use Human AFCB for more prerequisite free feats and take toughness to make up for the lost HP if you really need it)
Just to be clear, you know sacred fist's flurry doesn't treat class level as BAB so still only average BAB for the flurry, right?
One level of bloody-knuckled rowdy does very little. Free IUS, but you only have 1d3 damage, and a wizard/eldritch knight doesn't add a lot of flat damage so...whatever.
The question for every unaremd build is "why". Unarmed has some upsided (free second enchantment for TWF builds, some good (style) feats, plus whatever your class might grant), but unless you make use of these upsides, the downsides make it a very weak weapon.
If you want some advice on your character, you should probably make a new thread, though.
One interesting option if you want to punch people and cast spells, phantom blade spiritualist with your weapon manifested. Monk level -2 for fists plus spell strike and spell combat, and you can to all of that while wearing heavy armor from level 1. You don't have the most wide spell list, but a lot of the basics are covered.