
Yondu |
Hi I'm planning to make a fighter using Desna Shooting Star (Please don't ask why...), and I have few questions :
- Does CMB use Charisma modifier when I use the starKnife for manoeuvers ?
- Does It replace STR and Dex for all manoeuvers ?
- When I throw my StarKnife do I use Dext or Charisma (strange wording in the feat) ?
Thanks

Nord |
I noticed that this feat lack the normal text that you see for slashing/fencing grace where you must wield the weapon with one hand only.
So...
If I wield starknife with two hands do I add x1.5 CHA to damage?
If I wield two starknives (two-weapon fighting) does offhand deal CHA/2 or full CHA damage?

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I noticed that this feat lack the normal text that you see for slashing/fencing grace where you must wield the weapon with one hand only.
True.
So...
If I wield starknife with two hands do I add x1.5 CHA to damage?
You can't ever wield a starknife two-handed for extra damage. It's a light weapon and light weapons can't do that.
If I wield two starknives (two-weapon fighting) does offhand deal CHA/2 or full CHA damage?
This one's a little more ambiguous, but I believe the precedents with the Dex-to-damage options you can get on off hand weapons suggest it's 1/2 Cha rather than the full amount.

master_marshmallow |

Nord wrote:I noticed that this feat lack the normal text that you see for slashing/fencing grace where you must wield the weapon with one hand only.True.
So...
Nord wrote:If I wield starknife with two hands do I add x1.5 CHA to damage?You can't ever wield a starknife two-handed for extra damage. It's a light weapon and light weapons can't do that.
Nord wrote:If I wield two starknives (two-weapon fighting) does offhand deal CHA/2 or full CHA damage?This one's a little more ambiguous, but I believe the precedents with the Dex-to-damage options you can get on off hand weapons suggest it's 1/2 Cha rather than the full amount.
Could go either way by RAW. Expect table variance (aka ask the DM).

Yondu |
1 yes, you use whatever stat you use to wield the weapon. See clarification of Weapon finesse letting you use dex.
2 no, see weapon finesse clarification.
3) any and all attacks use charisma.
1: OK Thanks.
2: As Dexterity can be applied on some manoeuvers and Strength to others, and the Feat specifically replace both for To Hit and Damage, does this mean that Charisma replace both for manoeuvers ?3 : Yepee Startoss Style here I come...

johnlocke90 |
Nord wrote:I noticed that this feat lack the normal text that you see for slashing/fencing grace where you must wield the weapon with one hand only.True.
So...
Nord wrote:If I wield starknife with two hands do I add x1.5 CHA to damage?You can't ever wield a starknife two-handed for extra damage. It's a light weapon and light weapons can't do that.
Nord wrote:If I wield two starknives (two-weapon fighting) does offhand deal CHA/2 or full CHA damage?This one's a little more ambiguous, but I believe the precedents with the Dex-to-damage options you can get on off hand weapons suggest it's 1/2 Cha rather than the full amount.
You could wield a large star knife as a one handed weapon in two hands.
Go Tiefling and get the over-sized limbs quality to eliminate the penalties.

Drahliana Moonrunner |
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Nothing keeping you from being a Paladin of a CG deity, Paladins aren't required by the rules to stay within one alignment step of the deity they worship. Paladins get their powers from elemental forces of goodness and law, not from the Gods themselves.
So a Paladin of Desna is pretty much just a Paladin who worships Desna (and reconciles the Law/Chaos thing somehow) and/or has some sort of official sanction from the church.
The thing is, the chaotic elements of Desna are going to be a severe strain on your Paladinhood. (She really IS that chaotic) So when push comes to shove, you either aren't a real worshipper of Desna, or your paladinhood is going to break.

swoosh |
The thing is, the chaotic elements of Desna are going to be a severe strain on your Paladinhood. (She really IS that chaotic) So when push comes to shove, you either aren't a real worshipper of Desna, or your paladinhood is going to break.
She really isn't. None of her core tenants really conflict with what a Paladin might do and when you combine that with the fact that her faith very explicitly allows her teachings to be interpreted in a number of ways as long as it doesn't violate her central principes, which are essentially just good and freedom and travel, a paladin doesn't really have anything to worry about.
In fact it's probably easier to be a paladin of Desna than a paladin of some of those sketchy empyreal lords while remaining internally consistent to a paladin's base code.

Saethori |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

It is still likely impossible to be a paladin of Desna, without GM intervention. Not because of her ideals, but because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.

PossibleCabbage |

I don't think "worshiping a god" requires "emulating that god's behavior in every way." It's more about "learning the lessons that god has to teach, and following the rules that they have set down."
Desna teaches "Wander, make friends, think for yourself, learn from people who are different from you, and pay attention to omens" all of those things are entirely reasonable for a lawful character to do whether or not they worship Desna.
Remember, a Paladin need not be a direct advocate for a deity or a church. They can have an earnest faith no more deeply considered than that of a commoner. If there are doctrinal contradictions deep within scripture a Paladin need not ever encounter them, and Desna's church can only barely be considered "organized" in the organized religion sense so I doubt that would ever come up.
because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.
Campaign settings are not rules, they are guidelines for a GM who is free to ignore or change anything he or she wants. There are especially not "unwritten rules" within a campaign setting that bind players to make or avoid certain choices.
In order to make the world of the game their own, the GM and players must be able to change things from their printed state. There may not have been any Paladins of Desna in the history of Golarion, but if a PC wants to be able to change the world by becoming one, that's no more against the spirit of the setting than if the players decide to besiege Egorian to attempt to depose Abrogail.

Drahliana Moonrunner |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

I don't think "worshiping a god" requires "emulating that god's behavior in every way." It's more about "learning the lessons that god has to teach, and following the rules that they have set down."
Desna teaches "Wander, make friends, think for yourself, learn from people who are different from you, and pay attention to omens" all of those things are entirely reasonable for a lawful character to do whether or not they worship Desna.
Remember, a Paladin need not be a direct advocate for a deity or a church. They can have an earnest faith no more deeply considered than that of a commoner. If there are doctrinal contradictions deep within scripture a Paladin need not ever encounter them, and Desna's church can only barely be considered "organized" in the organized religion sense so I doubt that would ever come up.
Saethori wrote:Campaign settings are not rules, they are guidelines for a GM who is free to ignore or change anything he or she wants. There are especially not "unwritten rules" within a campaign setting that bind players to make or avoid certain choices.because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.
You're cherry picking some aspects of the goddess to ignore her greater nature. Desna's tales are full of the trouble she gets into because she can't resist any big red button that's placed in front of her. Her behavior is full of things that a person devoted to law as firmly as a Paladin MUST BE, simply can't approve of. A Paladin can certainly be sympathetic to Desna's kind nature, but they would be no less than appalled on the lack of structure or consistent approach to life. And in the setting she comes from, a Paladin being a divine caster simply can not worship a goddess that is that antithetical to his core beliefs, any more than he could abide a lawful evil deity.

Quantum Steve |

It is still likely impossible to be a paladin of Desna, without GM intervention. Not because of her ideals, but because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.
Well, Desna in particular, is worshiped on other worlds, (and presumably other settings) than Golarion. So rules specific to Golarion do not apply everywhere.

Saethori |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

Saethori wrote:Well, Desna in particular, is worshiped on other worlds, (and presumably other settings) than Golarion. So rules specific to Golarion do not apply everywhere.It is still likely impossible to be a paladin of Desna, without GM intervention. Not because of her ideals, but because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.
Which is why I specified "Golarion the campaign setting", to differentiate it from "Golarion the planet".
In campaign settings other than the one that includes Golarion, Desna does not even exist, and so worshipping her becomes an impossibility.

johnlocke90 |
PossibleCabbage wrote:The thing is, the chaotic elements of Desna are going to be a severe strain on your Paladinhood. (She really IS that chaotic) So when push comes to shove, you either aren't a real worshipper of Desna, or your paladinhood is going to break.Nothing keeping you from being a Paladin of a CG deity, Paladins aren't required by the rules to stay within one alignment step of the deity they worship. Paladins get their powers from elemental forces of goodness and law, not from the Gods themselves.
So a Paladin of Desna is pretty much just a Paladin who worships Desna (and reconciles the Law/Chaos thing somehow) and/or has some sort of official sanction from the church.
What elements specifically? From what I have read, Desnas tenants are super vague and easy for any Good person to follow.
Heck, even on the worship part. Many people worship gods they don't neccesarily emulate. I mean, most Gozreh worshipers aren't looking to create tornados. They just have strong respect for the power of weather.

Quantum Steve |

Quantum Steve wrote:Saethori wrote:Well, Desna in particular, is worshiped on other worlds, (and presumably other settings) than Golarion. So rules specific to Golarion do not apply everywhere.It is still likely impossible to be a paladin of Desna, without GM intervention. Not because of her ideals, but because Golarion the campaign setting seems to require all supplicants to obey the one step rule, not only clerics and warpriests.
It doesn't appear to be outright stated, but it is implied very heavily to be an aspect of the campaign setting.
Which is why I specified "Golarion the campaign setting", to differentiate it from "Golarion the planet".
In campaign settings other than the one that includes Golarion, Desna does not even exist, and so worshipping her becomes an impossibility.
By "Golarion the campain setting" do you mean the World of Golarion, as described by several campaign setting resources, set in The Pathfinder Campaign Setting? Because if not, then I'm not sure what you mean.
The ISWG describes how religion works on Golarion, but Distant Worlds is a different setting withing the Pathfinder Campaign Setting and a lot of things are different. Few of these things are rigidly defined and are left to GMs to elaborate upon if they want to set their campaign on these worlds.
Edit:
I should clarify that, as far as I can tell, there are no Paladins of Desna in the same way that there are Paladins of Iomedae. Even on Golarion there are Paladins who are not devoted to any specific Deity, at least there were in the Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting, and I haven't read diferent in any other source book. These Paladins are described as exceedingly rare and have never been allowed in PFS (which has numerous House Rules of it's own).
These Paladin's would be allowed to 'revere' (or worship, or whatever) any Deity they choose just like any other class, though they wouldn't Worship (capital W) the same way a Cleric or a Devoted Paladin does. If such minutiae matters.

graystone |

Deadmanwalking wrote:Nord wrote:I noticed that this feat lack the normal text that you see for slashing/fencing grace where you must wield the weapon with one hand only.True.
So...
Nord wrote:If I wield starknife with two hands do I add x1.5 CHA to damage?You can't ever wield a starknife two-handed for extra damage. It's a light weapon and light weapons can't do that.
Nord wrote:If I wield two starknives (two-weapon fighting) does offhand deal CHA/2 or full CHA damage?This one's a little more ambiguous, but I believe the precedents with the Dex-to-damage options you can get on off hand weapons suggest it's 1/2 Cha rather than the full amount.You could wield a large star knife as a one handed weapon in two hands.
Go Tiefling and get the over-sized limbs quality to eliminate the penalties.
Irongrip Gauntlets solves the penalty problem for 4000gp.