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Oracle v Monk - under level. Looking for suggestions.

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Alright, here's the current situation: Level 3 Kitsune Bone Oracle with the Child Curse (cosmetically, his age is locked at 6) escaped his monastery and struck out on his own, because f- being told "The gods have a plan for you, but nobody knows what it is, so you need to stay here and train until some epiphany occurs to us about what you should be doing with your life." He's about to have to fight to maintain his tenuous freedom (agreed story fight).

Worst case scenario is fighting a level 5 monk. Literally anything else is an advantage. (Armor means touch attack, lower level means easier fight)

Current resources are as follows:
~Medium sized bunny rabbit as a mount (standard rabbit with the Dire and Giant simple templates applied), which has a bite attack, 1d6, 2 point Str bonus, but no armor.
~Two claws, small sized (child after all), so 1d3 each, dex to hit but no bonus damage.
~Death's Touch Revelation, so, a 1d6+1 Touch attack, with dex to hit.
~Bone Armor and Armored Kilt, plus a small shield, put his standard base AC at 21. He COULD hit 24 fighting defensively (the shield is attached to a custom-made, one-handed weapon with the Blocking special ability), but that's a -4 to hit, which negated his dex bonus to hit.

Spells are Light, Create Water, Mending, Spark, Purify Food and Drink (not really any combat Orisons), Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, and Red-hot Disarm (CAN you use that on a fist??).

Gear is a surgical kit (scalpel?), a custom weapon that does 1d3, threat of 18+, custom crossbow that fires potions (and, theoretically, poisons) via syringe darts similar to oversized featherweight darts but does no actual damage, and miscellaneous things that won't help (unless he's undead. Then holywater the undead monk).

Assuming I can get a 1v1 duel out of this, any advice on my approach?
3 people marked this as a favorite.

...Run. You have no business fighting a 1 on 1 duel with something two levels above you when you have very close to 0 combat ability.

Your mount outspeeds a level 5 Monk, and it has the Run Feat.

You're moving at 250 feet per round, the Monk maxes out at 160 feet per round. Your rabbit also has a 21 Con vs the Monk's likely 14, maybe 16 at most. Get your lead and you're able to Hustle (moving at 100 feet per round vs his 80) for 8 hours, and go on the Forced March (50 feet vs 40) for hours after that.

You can literally run the Monk to exhaustion, and fairly easily outpace him enough in the first 21 rounds of running (5250 feet, almost a mile, vs the Monk's 2240 or 2560, giving you a roughly half mile lead in the first 2 minutes) that he is physically incapable of actually catching you as long as you keep moving. And you can keep moving for HOURS after the Monk would be forced to stop chasing you (if he literally ran after you until he collapsed and fell unconscious, you could still keep running for hours afterward).

Edit: Whoops, my math was a BIT off. Apparently Dire Creature gives you an extra 10 foot move speed. So your lead is EVEN BETTER than what I estimate here.

This Monk trying to catch you is like Elmer Fudd trying to catch the Road Runner with a butterfly net.

Your spells are all pretty bad for a fight, much less with a level difference like that. If you absolutely have to fight, you could flank with the rabbit and fight defensively, hope for good rolls?

Really though, just run.

While this would NORMALLY be a valid approach, and honestly the one I'd most likely use normally, there's backstory reasons he wouldn't back out. One of them being that the other option is being chased down by an entire monastery, who could potentially be augmented by someone using, for example, Expeditious Retreat. There would come a point during the force march where he'd out pace me, and then it'd be several on one, because I left the rest of the party behind. This is the alternative to that or an all-out brawl between a full monastery and a 4-5 man group of level 3s, two of which may or may not get involved for racial reasons.
Zarius wrote:
While this would NORMALLY be a valid approach, and honestly the one I'd most likely use normally, there's backstory reasons he wouldn't back out. One of them being that the other option is being chased down by an entire monastery, who could potentially be augmented by someone using, for example, Expeditious Retreat. There would come a point during the force march where he'd out pace me, and then it'd be several on one, because I left the rest of the party behind. This is the alternative to that or an all-out brawl between a full monastery and a 4-5 man group of level 3s, two of which may or may not get involved for racial reasons.

Expeditious retreat is a minute per level. Even in the short term, that lets them MATCH your speed (but not really, because Run Feat)...and your rabbit has the Con advantage that lets it Run for longer, giving it a head start still from the get-go, just a slighter one. In a march of hours, it is insignificant. Longstrider closes the gap, slightly, but you still have a 10 feet per round advantage on them. They will NEVER catch you. It is a mathematical impossibility unless you deliberately give them several hours to catch up to you.

I can tell you now, barring incredible luck, you will not win this fight. I drew up a bunch of math, but eventually decided it wasn't super relevant. You have a very small chance of winning this fight, and if you lose presumably it's game over for your character.

On the other hand, you have a 100% chance of evading all pursuers. If there are character reasons for why you HAVE to fight, so be it, but having your character swallow his pride because he realizes he can't fight the people pursuing him makes for a good character moment to me, and OOC allows the game to continue, which is always good.

If you HAVE a party backing you up, this becomes a different story. The party (not restricted by things like the rabbit not being combat trained, requiring you to pass a DC 20 Handle Animal check as a FULL ROUND ACTION to get it to help you every round) will gangbang the Monk no problem because action economy is king.

1 on 1, or you+rabbit on 1 (which is really still 1 on 1, just Rabbit vs Monk with you using every round to try and make it attack) is...ill advised.

Again, the options are

a) full on brawl between 4-5 (two questionable) party members versus whole monastery

b) outrun the whole thing (even if we take into account the fact that the rabbit could keep going, you're forgetting the fact that, for all physical purposes, he's six... Even without the con penalty for being a Young character and JUST using the Oracle Curse Str penalty - we actually used the Young Character rules instead - he's still effectively a kid, he's going to fall asleep in the saddle, but we'll ignore that), which defeats the whole point of adventuring in the first place or

c) take on the strongest person in the opposing group 1v1. The rabbit IS battle trained, so no need for a check.

This IS the preferred option, unfortunately. If I weren't out of cash, I'd get a lance and just charge him into the ground, but THAT isn't an option.

As to game-over, not really. There's still always options. Even with the level disadvantage, they're trying to capture him (technically, "recover", but since he ran off of his own accord...), and wouldn't be willing to kill him. He, on the other hand, has no qualms about killing to stay out of a forced life of religious training.

Why is it you're sure this is an all or nothing deal? Why does fighting this one guy prevent 10 more from coming after you? The more details you give, the less this scenario seems to make sense.

Monks... are lawful entities. If their boss accepts a challenge, the rest are honor-bound, even if they're Lawful EVIL, to abide their boss's decision. These are NPCs in a story fight, not PCs who can actively justify virtually anything under virtually any alignment. Even if he looses, the DM will most likely either give a finger-wiggle that monk was whooped badly enough to honor his word, anyways, or the security on the errant near-toddler will be so low that, with a stealth bonus of 15, *poof*.

But, if possible, I'd RATHER win.

So this is a duel then? You're challenging him to a fight for your freedom?

That makes more sense than what you said before (you're escaping and he's trying to stop you), though works on a very weird interpretation of Lawful (they abandon their actual duty to accept such a challenge).

And if you fail, why would someone who had just attempted to escape, who is so important to this sect of Monks, be guardd so loosely?

Bah. I guess I'm just nitpicking at this point. If your GM is going to handwave the fight as being unimportant to move the plot along, good on him for expediting the game. But In that case, why does it matter if you win?

There's no advice to be given here, your a low level caster with no offensive spells and although you've been given a beefed up animal companion it's still a 3rd level animal companion and from what you've said you have no money to buy anything of note.

This Monk built half way decently should win this scenario with ease, it's a martial character, only extreme luck or GM fudging will change things

Sorry, Sundakan, yeah, that's pretty much the crux of it. Part of the reason he'd guarded loosely isn't that he'd ACTUALLY be guarded loosely, but that the guard would be too loose for HIM. Nobody expects what appears to be a 6 year old child to be better at stealth at level 3 than many rogues higher level. Plus, he didn't JUST escape, that was a couple years previous, plot-wise. They just only finally figured out where the hell he is. Mostly because he finally left a major city, where he could blend in and vanish.

NoTongue, didn't we talk about this on my "mage killer rogue" thread? If all you're going to do is point out the flaws with a plan, sit on your fingers. You can point out the actual impediments - such as the fact that a monk gets his dex and his wisdom to AC, giving a level 1 a potential AC of 18 straight out of the box, even before any size or racial bonuses, thus rendering touch-ac moot. That's a valid point. Pointing out my flaw of, effectively, no combat spells is valid, though I will point out that a pair of claw attacks, even rated for a small creature, and a short-sword diced touch attack, using dex to hit, is not ENTIRELY "no martial skill."

Even at level 2, a +7 to attack is not COMPLETELY worthless in combat, even without a melee damage bonus. It's not GREAT, but it's not horrible.

And a base AC of 21, even without factoring in defensive fighting, isn't insignificant, even for a level 5, especially with only a +1 from actual armor.

Even a monk with a high str or dex (with weapon finesse) isn't getting better than an average of 40% chance to hit, EVEN if the monk is using Flurry of Blows (5 BAB + 5 Stat, assuming racial bonus of some kind, -2 is 8 bonus, versus an AC 0f 21, that's a 35% chance to hit, using flurry and only one attack is a 45% chance to hit).

Versus I have a +7 bonus to hit, versus an AC capping out at 19, that's 40% chance to hit period. Yes, I realize the possibility of magic items, but I'm only factoring base values at the moment.

This assumes min0--maxing of the monk, which my DM isn't likely to do (yes, I know, odd, but he's more a story-liner than a battle focus). That's also a 40% chance to hit. He's not just going to slap 18s in the list, and he's not likely to roll three 18, which means that he's either lowering his chances to hit me, or he's lowering his chances to avoid getting hit, or lowering any bonus damage.

I haven't PLAYED a monk, though, so I'm operating on 3.5 knowledge, and even that is limited to how an online game (DDO) does monks. Information like what kind of special attacks I might have to deal with would be good. Common, effective weapons that monks tend to be built with. I'm willing to take advice on replacement spells for my build. he's an oracle, so healing magic is a good thing to keep on hand, but if you can give me suggestions on alternate spells, I'll listen.

But, as you can see, I REALIZE that my chances of victory are slim. And I REALIZE that, even with advice, I'm likely to loose. So take that pessimistic crap, and shove it sideways, you annoying, prattling jerk.

If you're going to fight the Monk, you might be bet off using Aid Another on your Animal Companion's AC and then having him whittle down the Monk's health over time. I've been assuming the Monk has the Heroic Array, and basic gear (Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Ring of Protection +1, Cloak of Resistance +1). Your rabbit has a pretty good chance of hitting that 17-ish AC, but the main issue you're going to run into is the Monk taking it down, since it doesn't have a ton of health (not a pitiful amount, but not a great amount either) and he deals more damage per swing.

Your best option risk/reward wise is if he's a weapon using Monk, since while he'll be more accurate and damaging, your Burning Disarm could actually work. That would at least waste one round of his.

You could also go long shot on combat maneuvers, and try to Trip the guy. Since you have Weapon Finesse you can Trip with your weapon, and might only need a 16 or so to succeed. Then you've either made him way easier to hit, or given yourself an extra free hit to attack.

Alright, that's a fair assumption for the gear. That brings his AC, hit, and saves up a point, though does nothing for his CMD. But CAN you use claws for a trip? I'm having trouble finding RAW allowing use of natural weapons for CMs. But I DO know that I can apply Death's Touch via my claws.

And I forgot to factor in the flanking bonus.

Ah. Just found the rules, the answer is a clear yes. Though, it WOULD mean I'd loose the weapon damage and, presumably, any Touch attacks.

The Deflection bonus raises his AC, Touch AC, Flatfooted AC, AND CMD. Deflection bonuses are solid.

Not sure how you're applying Death's Touch via an attack. You can attack to apply the effects of a touch spell, but that is not a spell.

It's a super natural ability that functions exactly like a spell-like ability for all intents and purposes, except that that it doesn't directly duplicate a spell. Shouldn't all of the same rules apply here?

Though, I will point out that even if the RAW doesn't agree, unless there's RAW that directly disagrees, my GM DID just agree to allowing exactly that. I love having a reasonable GM.

Su abilities =/= SLAs, and SLAs =/= spells. They're distinct entities, particularly in the case of SLAs that don't replicate actual spell effects.

The main thing here is the difference between actions.

Touch spells are cast as a Standard, then give a Free action to deliver the spell. That's why Spellstrike gives a free extra attack.

Your Su ability is used as a Standard, full stop. It is incompatible with the Standard action required to also attack.

But, if your GM allows it, cool. Though our advice becomes less and less relevant the more houserules are introduced to even your odds.
Grand Lodge

Yeah I dunno man,

Even an generic(no real focus) elite array monk would probably whoop yah, if the guy has 20 point buy and PC wealth it's a even bigger problem. If you DM is using the pregen lvl 5 monk form the GMG it's probably winnable.

Maybe try to taunt one of the Monk's lower level minions to battle in his master's place?

Generic Elite Array Monk:

Evil Monk Man (Elite Array) CR 4
XP 1,200
Human monk 5
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 monk, +2 Wis)
hp 41 (5d8+13)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +7; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune disease
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee mwk cold iron temple sword +8 (1d8+4/19-20) or
mwk cold iron temple sword flurry of blows +8/+8 (1d8+4/19-20) or
unarmed strike +9 (1d8+6) or
unarmed strike flurry of blows +9/+9 (1d8+6)
Ranged mwk sling +5 (1d4+4)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, stunning fist (5/day, DC 14)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +9 (+11 grapple); CMD 22 (24 vs. grapple)
Feats Additional Traits, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Toughness, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits quain martial artist, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +8 (+17 to jump), Climb +8, Escape Artist +5, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +10, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +9, Swim +8
Languages Common
SQ fast movement, high jump, ki pool (4 points magic), maneuver training, slow fall 20 ft.
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (2), potion of mage armor (2), potion of magic fang, greater +1, burst jar[UE] (2), iron pellet grenade[UE] (2), shard gel[UE] (2), slime grenade; Other Gear mwk cold iron temple sword[APG], mwk sling, cloak of resistance +1, iron holy symbol of Evil God[UE], 15 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +3/+3 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
High Jump (+5/+25 with Ki point) (Ex) +5 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Pool (4/day) (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Slow Fall 20 ft. (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Stunning Fist (5/day, DC 14) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.

PC Wealth Monk:

Evil Monk Man (PC Stats) CR 5
XP 1,600
Human monk (qinggong monk) 5 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 51)
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 16, flat-footed 20 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 monk, +2 natural, +2 Wis)
hp 48 (5d8+20)
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +7; +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning, +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune disease
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee mwk cold iron temple sword +10 (1d8+6/19-20) or
mwk cold iron temple sword flurry of blows +10/+10 (1d8+6/19-20) or
mwk silver nunchaku +10 (1d6+6) or
mwk silver nunchaku flurry of blows +10/+10 (1d6+6) or
unarmed strike +11 (1d8+11) or
unarmed strike flurry of blows +11/+11 (1d8+11)
Ranged mwk sling +6 (1d4+6)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, stunning fist (5/day, DC 14)
Monk Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +4)
—barkskin (self only, 1 ki)[UM]
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +11 (+13 grapple); CMD 25 (27 vs. grapple)
Feats Deflect Arrows, Dragon Ferocity[UC], Dragon Style[UC], Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Toughness, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits quain martial artist, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+14 to jump), Climb +10, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +10, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +9, Swim +10
Languages Common
SQ fast movement, ki pool (4 points magic), maneuver training, slow fall 20 ft.
Combat Gear potion of bull's strength, potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of cure serious wounds, potion of lesser restoration, potion of mage armor (3), burst jar[UE] (2), iron pellet grenade[UE] (3), shard gel[UE] (2), slime grenade (2); Other Gear mwk cold iron temple sword[APG], mwk silver nunchaku, mwk sling, amulet of mighty fists +1, cloak of resistance +1, ring of protection +1, iron holy symbol of Evil God[UE], 243 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Barkskin (self only, 1 Ki) (Sp) Self Only. Costs 1 ki point to activate.
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+6 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs. sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +3/+3 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Pool (4/day) (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Slow Fall 20 ft. (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Stunning Fist (5/day, DC 14) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
2 people marked this as a favorite.

Damn martial/caster disparity...

Wait...

The PCs that started above level 1 (back-up characters) didn't even start with PC wealth. And, point of order, even WITH PC wealth, there's no way a monk is getting a +4 armor bonus. +3 is the best you're pulling, and that leaves you with 1,500 gold. You ain't affording anything else directly combat related with that, not even a basic +1 amulet. Maybe a +1 cloak of resistance.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement

+4 Armor Bonus is pretty cheap with a 750 gp wand of Mage Armor.
Grand Lodge
Zarius wrote:

The PCs that started above level 1 (back-up characters) didn't even start with PC wealth. And, point of order, even WITH PC wealth, there's no way a monk is getting a +4 armor bonus. +3 is the best you're pulling, and that leaves you with 1,500 gold. You ain't affording anything else directly combat related with that, not even a basic +1 amulet. Maybe a +1 cloak of resistance.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement

Bolded items are the consumables that have been used prior to combat. I pretty much always use a few consumables or buff spells on NPCs. If you look through strategy blurbs of the NPC codex, you'll see, that seems to be Paizo's philosophy as well. Sorry I should've been more clear on what the bolding meant.

Potions of mage armor cost 50gp and last 1 hour, never made a monk who hasn't used one at least once.

I used the correct wealth. They're just examples of what I would make as a DM, can't speak for what your guy would do.

That's right, you can get potions of Mage Armor. Forgot that it wasn't Personal, unlike Shield.

Massive, that explains a lot more. I didn't even notice the bolded items.

MageHunter, martial path starts bad-ass, and can maintain a certain amount of ass kickery, but taper. Casters START weak, but quickly become veritable gods. Unless you incorporate Mystic. Then everything is badass.

Sundakan, the primary difference between SLAs and their cast-spell counterpart is that SLAs don't use material components, hand gestures, or verbal components. Denying an SLA the free-action to deliver the Touch Attack of, for example, a Shocking Grasp is patently insane, as you're doing LESS work.|

Personally, I extend the same logic to a melee touch-based SU. If the whole ability itself is a touch-based effect, then it's a magical touch effect. The only difference between my character clawing someone eyes out and my character pulling a Three Stooges, as far as the game is concerned, is a) the free action to unsheath his claws and b) the amount of force applied.

By game logic, even as a standard action, it's a force of will that is then culminated by an attack. For all RAW purposes, it's like swinging a sap to deal lethal damage. Except that in THIS case, the "sap" is neither an improvised weapon nor a non-proficient version of the same weapon.

Basically, my DM and I both treat SUs under the same rule as SLAs because of the fact that there IS no specification for this particular type of thing. More importantly, SLA's actually expressly state that they take the same amount of time to cast as the spell they mimic. logically, if the spell takes a "standard action to cast + bonus free action for delivery", the SLA should be exactly the same, other than the components.

Hey, massive, I just noticed something important. BOTH of those examples forget to incorporate the TWF penalties on the Flurry entry. Flurry of Blows, on those two examples, should incorporate a -2 penalty for effectively TWF, and an additional -2 to primary and -4 to secondary attacks because the weapon isn't a Light weapon. Based on the specific wording, the attacks COULD be assumed to be operating as-though light, but even that isn't incorporated.

Not quite. For one, Flurry does not impart any extra penalty for larger weapons. It is a flat -2/-2 for whatever you happen to use. Flurry functions vaguely like TWFing, but is not in any way the same thing (only requires one weapon, set penalties, gives full Str to damage on the "main hand" and "off hand" attacks, etc.).

You also forgot that Flurry increases the BaB of the Monk. A Monk of 5th level has a BaB of +3, which increases to +5 when Flurrying. That gives it a net penalty of -0 to-hit.

5th level is the exact level where Flurry starts to break even on to-hit, though it doesn't ever actually provide a BONUS to-hit until 9th.

Oh, hey, I'm just retarded today. Never mind me. I deal with idiots for 8 hours a day, sometimes it rubs off.
Sovereign Court
Sundakan wrote:
+4 Armor Bonus is pretty cheap with a 750 gp wand of Mage Armor.

Not to mention if they have half a brain and took Barkskin as a qinggong power by 5. (virtually every monk takes it at 4)

By 5 with Mage Armor/Barkskin a monk should have an AC of at least 22 at the minimum, and that's based upon the above mediocre monk build.

(A monk's defenses are probably stand-out feature of the class.)

Barkskin is entirely negated by touch attacks, luckily. As, actually, is Mage Armor. So, I only have to worry about it if the fight lasts more than seven touch attacks. Though, hopefully, he'll either surrender or be taken out by then. Most likely, the runt will be on his ass by then.
Sovereign Court
Zarius wrote:
Barkskin is entirely negated by touch attacks, luckily. As, actually, is Mage Armor. So, I only have to worry about it if the fight lasts more than seven touch attacks. Though, hopefully, he'll either surrender or be taken out by then. Most likely, the runt will be on his ass by then.

Of course - that's assuming that you last for 7 rounds.

Grand Lodge

Monks aren't know for their offense. "Flurry of Misses" is a known problem.
Sovereign Court
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Monks aren't know for their offense. "Flurry of Misses" is a known problem.

7 rounds is a long time though.

Going by the generic/mediocre NPC monk above, he'd hit nearly once a round for an average of 11.025 damage per hit. Total average vs AC 21 would be 9.925 damage a round. And that doesn't include the potential reduction AC if a stunning fist works - and at least 1 probably would (and that it would extend the # of rounds further) and ignores his potential use of ki points.

I seriously doubt that a level 3 oracle has the 70+hp required to survive 7 rounds against that. And if he uses healing to survive longer, the # of offensive touch attacks he has drops.

Just talk it out?

Seven rounds of a guy with touch versus a guy with a c AC attack. And no, he probably WON'T stand seven rounds. But, yeah, that why I was looking for advice.

Talking it out IS the primary plan, Mage, I'm trying to make back-up plans.
Zarius wrote:
Barkskin is entirely negated by touch attacks, luckily. As, actually, is Mage Armor . So, I only have to worry about it if the fight lasts more than seven touch attacks. Though, hopefully, he'll either surrender or be taken out by then. Most likely, the runt will be on his ass by then.

Have to disagree with the Mage Armor. It's a force effect, so it applies to touch AC.

Not in PF, it applies only to incorporeal attacks.
Grand Lodge
AlaskaRPGer wrote:
It's a force effect, so it applies to touch AC.

Only against incorporeal touch attacks. It is still an armor bonus and does not count in regular Touch AC.

Sovereign Court
AlaskaRPGer wrote:
Zarius wrote:
Barkskin is entirely negated by touch attacks, luckily. As, actually, is Mage Armor . So, I only have to worry about it if the fight lasts more than seven touch attacks. Though, hopefully, he'll either surrender or be taken out by then. Most likely, the runt will be on his ass by then.
Have to disagree with the Mage Armor. It's a force effect, so it applies to touch AC.

No it doesn't. Being a force effect lets it apply against incorporeal attacks, but not against touch attacks in general.

Edit: TWO ninjas! Dang nabbit.

To: All that replied.

Huh - I am happily corrected! Thanks all.
Grand Lodge

Part of my sorcerer's duties in our Carrion Crown group is to hit people with the Mage Armor wand when we encounter incorporeal enemies. Which (spoilers) happens a LOT. :P

I read the Mage Armor spell description after someone pointed out that it can be chugged as a potion :D

That reminds me, Tri, I'll have to slate a slot for ghost touch on my AoMF, thanks.
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