Tuning a PFS Rageshaper / DD


Advice

Scarab Sages

Hey guys, I've been toying with this idea for a bit and seen a few similar threads but they haven't quite answered the two nagging questions I'm having. I know a Rageshaper/DD isn't exactly an optimization field-day, but I don't want to have to play with the Monkey-Wizard Carry-Character just to survive past level 6.

1: This has got me scratching my head - in regards to the Deathless Initiate feats and Raging Vitality feat. I can't tell which is better. The way I'm building I could go up to Deathless Initiate as a Half Orc, or be a Human and get Dragon Style and Raging Vitality. (I suppose I could also get Die Hard and Raging Vitality as a Half Orc as well). Which option seems like it will have the most payoff in keeping me alive as an angry angry character?

2: Robes of Arcane Heritage - Are wings when I'm raging (most/all combats) past level 7 worth the 16,000 GP? Or should I put that GP into my Amulet of Mighty Fists (or other magical goodies).


1. Raging Vitality all day.

2. Save the money.

Scarab Sages

1: Die Hard and Raging Vitality on a Fate's Favored Half-Orc, or Raging Vitality and Dragon Style on a Human? Also, what bumps Raging Vitality over the Deathless tree?

2: Aww, that's no fun. In that Case: +2 on Amulet of Mighty Fists, or Deliquescent Gloves and Helm of the Mammoth Lord?


1. B, but when are you picking IUS? Raging Vitality is simply better because the extra CON means it's harder to get you below 0 in the first place.

2. +2 amulet. DR bypassing is OP.

Scarab Sages

1:IUS comes from the bonus human feat
2:aww, the gloves seemed so much fu :(

Grand Lodge

So wait, rage shaper seems to be based on your bloodrager level. Do you mean bloody-knuckled rowdy?

That would give you improved unarmed strike, a style feat (dragon style) and unarmed strike damage of a monk at level 3 (which, while only 1d6, is still damn better than 1d3 you would have otherwise)

Or are you planning on shape changing a lot, and if so, how?

Scarab Sages

Only need 20 rage rounds for Society in most cases. 5 levels and FC bonus gets me that. For every non-trivial fight I'll have claws. Trivial fights are where I whip out a sword or something.

Grand Lodge

Erm, i don't follow. I think there are some problems with what you are suggesting:

1. The rage shapers "Bestial Aspect" doesn't affect your claws from the draconic bloodline. They only work on spells, the first such that grants you claws would alter self, that you would get access to at level 8.

2. Dragon style does not improve the damage of natural attacks (though the save bonuses and movement would still work)

3. You cannot use claws for unarmed attacks without a feat (the name escapes me).

In society play, you are going to, unless I'm not understanding it correctly, spend the vast majority of your pathfinder career with your archetype not doing anything, and then when it does, it will be somewhat lacklustre, most likely just turning a d6 into a d8 (when you can eventual cast alter self).

If you want to mix it up with unarmed attacks, I would suggest the bloody knuckled rowdy, that will give you unarmed attacks equal to your claw damage, free unarmed strike feat, free dragon style feat, and would let you use these abilities all the time.

Scarab Sages

1: The last line of Bestial Aspect is kinda important

"If the rageshaper's bloodrage powers already grant natural attacks or alternate modes of movement, then the bonuses granted by bestial aspect also apply to these bloodrage powers."

So it does apply to my claws, as soon as i hit level 4.

2: It doesn't improve natural attacks, it's just pretty darn good on it's own. Also being able to charge through allies is amazing, especially when my first purchase is gonna be a wand of Enlarge Person.

3:I know, I'd get the resistances and movement buff, but not the damage buff.

also, the unarmed strike is just for dragon style, no desire to use unarmed strikes. If Dragon Style isn't worth the investment then Half-Orc is how I'll go

Grand Lodge

Ah, there we go, I was missing that point about bestial aspect.

Well, as you said in the first post, this isn't really about optimisation, so if you are happy with it, do what you think is cool :)

If you are super keen on claws, I would suggest finding other ways to get natural attacks, as mixing in weapon attacks is going to be difficult.

Half orcs can get a bite attack from trait or racial ability, which would stack well with your 2 claws. Also there are a few ways to get a gore attack. These would all get the amulet of might fists bonus.

Raging vitality should be enough, the half orc deathless initiate feats I've always found to be too expensive for what they do. If you need extra operating hit points, toughness and raging vitality together will give you more than deathless initiate will, after a certain point, and won't risk you permanently dying to a lucky hit.

Scarab Sages

I was kinda thinking the die hard would let me withdraw/CLW if it got ugly, but toughness might be a better deal.

It is sort of about optimization, just not to the point of no longer being a natural-attack focused rageshaper/DD. That's why I called it Tuning. Most of the feats and stuff are pretty standard, so I brought in the bits I wasn't sure of.

I know they can grab a bite, but I get a better one from DD at level 7 anyhow, so I wasn't sure it'd be worth it. And Helm of the Mammoth Lord gives a Gore attack - though it was kinda decided earlier on that getting the amulet to +2 is more important than the helm.

Grand Lodge

Fair enough. Whelp, if you wanted to get a gore attack without money, the feat Spirit Oni Master can grant you one, but it has Tian Xia demon flavour, rather than dragon, so maybe not.


You could use Primalist to gain both Lesser Fiend Totem and Superstition at level 4.

If you're multiclassing anyhow, you could always consider going one Many Styles Monk level to do a Feral Combat Training: Claw + Dragon Style/Ferocity thing.


If only Primalist were pathfinder legal. Personally, I went Crossblood Abyssal to gain access to Enlarge Self without a wand, but limited to my rage. Daemon-born Tiefling for +2 Str and +2 Cha if you have the boon for it with Maw or Claw racial trait. Alternitively, tusked Half Orcs work.

Additionally, Legacy of Dragons have some interesting things to play with. Soveriegn has Blugeoning while Crystal has Piercing, and you gain DR P and S or DR S and B respectively. (Is half rounded down or up?) They oversighted that Bloodragers dont get Bloodline Arcana, so I would ignore that.

Scarab Sages

A gore from a feat would be great, but I can't seem to find that feat. Can someone tell me what book it's in or give me a wiki link?

And I'd rather not have a third class, that takes my rage rounds down from "good enough" to "maybe a little short"

And I was looking through legacy of dragons, and most of it just doesn't seem that great. I'm a little foggy with some DR rules, would Bludgeoning or Piercing beat one of the elemental breaths in that regard? because I thought acid breath would be kinda cool.

Also, I was seriously considering crossblooding with Abyssal for the free enlarge but the big hit to Will Saves seemed a little steep.


By what I have read RAW, it seema DR S and P can only be overcome with a Slash and Pierce weapon (dealing both damages at the same time) or a +1 Magic Item.

Unless I am just being dumb lol.

Scarab Sages

MonkeyFish, my regular claws and bite will overcome that. All natural attacks are B,P,S. Don't know if i'll need that on both my attacks and breath.


TheMonkeyFish wrote:

By what I have read RAW, it seema DR S and P can only be overcome with a Slash and Pierce weapon (dealing both damages at the same time) or a +1 Magic Item.

Unless I am just being dumb lol.

You aren't being dumb, just overlooked the lvl 4 increase to claws...

"At 4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

Angel I'm trying to build my own Draconic Rageshaper. Here's my thread, I would appreciate your thoughts (sorry, not trying to hijack).
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tw70?Draconic-Rageshaper-Build#8

I have serious concerns about dying if I become unconcious and I have hardly addressed these issues in my build. I guess I'll just have to be careful.

The minuses on Crossblooded pushed me away too but if you go Abyssal/Destined it makes up for the loss once you hit lvl 11 and get Greater BR as long as you take the below from the Destined bloodline.

Fated Bloodrager (Su)
At 4th level, you gain a +1 luck bonus to AC and on saving throws. At 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).

This probably isn't optimized though since you are multiclassing though.

I would think since you are multiclassing you would want to stick around with the bloodrager till Greater BR kicks in then start taking DD lvls?

For the gore feat you can accomplish this by taking Extra Rage Power
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-rage-power
and
Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo--- rage-powers/fiend-totem-lesser-su

"Bloodrage counts as the barbarian's rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects." So this should allow you to meet the prerequisite of the Extra Rage Power feat.

I was considering taking Clear Mind rage power with this feat for an extra Will save every rage... still an option.

I haven't played a table top game in years so I'm still a little hesitant about how to sure up the weak points of my build. We do have a bard in our group, so I'm relying heavily on him for save boosts. Not sure if that's a good idea.


Angel Hunter D wrote:
I'd rather not have a third class, that takes my rage rounds down from "good enough" to "maybe a little short"

Well, one level is 2/day; if rounds/day is that worrisome then Extra Rage is +6/day. The real question with Feral is whether it's too many feats even for a major damage boost.

A Human with a MoMS 1 dip can have Extra Rage, Weapon Focus, Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity by 5. MoMS is basically a +2 to saves as well, and having IUS and Dragon Style grants you a solid non-claw weapon that uses the same equipment, if fighting without Rage.


Oh, I thought you were asking about the soverigns damage reduction. Sorry. ^^;

I donno... DR 2 P and S sounds temping... turns to DR 5 at level 10(?).

Just my thoughts.

Scarab Sages

I'm mostly taking Bloodrager as the best entry to Dragon Disciple for a melee build with natural weapons. So the less time I spend taking Bloodrager levels the happier I'll be. This does prevent me from benefiting from higher level goodies (most of which won't come into effect for very long as this is a PFS character.

Also, last I checked you can't take rage powers as a Bloodrager unless your a Primalist (not PFS legal so not an option for me) for the same reason the Robes of Arcane Heritage don't work.

But I will take a look at your thread when I have some time

And MonkeyFish, I'm not sure draconic resistance interacts with physical breaths that way, because it says "energy type"

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Campaign clarifications addressed draconic resistance and physical breath weapons.

Campaign Clarifications wrote:
For the purpose of the dragon resistance bloodline power, you gain DR that is bypassed by the two damage types other than the damage type that your breath weapon deals. For example, if your breath weapon deals bludgeoning damage, you gain DR/ piercing or slashing. The amount of DR you gain is equal to half the energy resistance you would normally gain against all attacks of that specific damage type.


Sorry for my "newbish" post earlier. I read through the Raining Blood - Bloodrager guide thread and the extra rage feat was shot down in there so sorry for throwing that out there. It sounded nice...

MonkeyFish - Your response to DR was in response to the question asked, I was in left field. For some reason, I got it stuck in my head someone was asking about overcoming DR on the claw attk. My bad.


Angel Hunter D wrote:
I'm mostly taking Bloodrager as the best entry to Dragon Disciple for a melee build with natural weapons. So the less time I spend taking Bloodrager levels the happier I'll be.

If using natural attacks and going into Disciple anyhow, I personally much prefer Bloodrager 1 with 4 levels of a full caster to carry on into Disciple casting due to the enormous increase in spellcasting and self-buffing. Having lots of uses of things like bonus damage Scorching Ray, Heroism and Monstrous Physique: Gargoyle is a major plus compared to not even getting level 3's until the very end of PFS. The downside is mostly just needing a few feats for rage rounds and maybe Arcane Armor Training.


Am I missing something? Did they change the FAQ from the last time I read it? According to tje Dragon Disciple FAQ for Paizo, levels count towards thd bonuses from Bloodrager Bloodlinea too.

So a 5 Bloodrager / 7 Dragon Disciple would have 12 levels of Bloodline powers. Its why I suggested Crossbloodes or Sovereign archetypes. As long as you're gaining Bloodline levels, you'll gain the bonuses. (example: DR and Resistances granted by your bloodline).

Scarab Sages

No, you're right MonkeyFish, it does progress the bloodline. That's why both of those are interesting choices.


Okay, I was a little concerned I was wrong. Tbh I think bloodline powers are the real shine of this class. Looking at the Archetypes, I think Blood Conduit with Feral Combat Training or Rageshaper would be the best Archetypes for this concept. Get the good stufg pre level 5.

Hope that helps. :)

Scarab Sages

Now that those bits are out of the way, time for the next stage of Tuning: Stat Buy. This is where I'm probably the most flexible - I just need at least 15 Con for Raging Vitality.

I'm thinking:
Str:15+2(racial)=17
Dex:12
Con:16
Int:10
Cha:11

One of the "nice" things about Dragon Disciple is that it slows spell progression to where I get a new spell level every 4 levels (at least as far as Society is concerned), so I could start with 10 Cha if that point is better spent elsewhere at the start. What do you guys think? is 12 Dex enough? should I get more Cha? is my Str too high considering I'm a magical rage machine?


There's always Dual Talent Human or Kindred-Raised Half Elf. Starting with two +2s is pretty fantastic for a lot of builds.

Sovereign Court

What about..
Str 16 -> 18
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 12
Pts: [10, 0, 10, 0, -2, 2]

You won't need to spend any more points on Charisma ever, though eventually you'll buy a headband. You need at least Cha 11 at level 5 just to qualify for DD, but a 12 gets you a bonus spell slot.

Wisdom of 8 is a bit annoying but it's only a -1. You do get a strong will save as DD. As a 2+int class, it'll be less painful for a DD to lose Wis than Int. Make sure to pick up a Clear Spindle + Wayfinder combo, it'll cut the amount of really scary Will saves by at least a third in PFS. (Won't work against Confusion or "Chaotic Neutral can't believe he's not Evil" NPCs, illusions, glitterdust, slow and maybe also not against Hold Person. But it'll stop Suggestion, Domination and Possesion and those are the most important to prevent.) If you have room, you can always pick up an Indomitable Will trait, one of those traits that gives a +2 vs. Charm/Compulsion, the Sound of Mind +2 vs. mind-affecting Zi Ha trait, or the Iron Will feat.

Strength to 18 (post-racial) from the start means you get optimal benefit from 2H weapons, and you'll always be carrying a few of those just in case you run into outre DR or Hardness that your claws are no good against. Or if you want to use a polearm along with a bite/spiked armor attack.

Dexterity of 10 doesn't do a lot for your defences unfortunately, but AC was a dubious defence for you to begin with since you'll be wearing medium armor and no shield, and your rage causes an AC penalty. Instead, you should try to use smart positioning to try to get a full attack before any enemies can do it to you. You can also have fun with readied actions to Blade Lash enemies just before they can travel the last 5ft to get close to you, Enlarge Person/Longarm to extend your reach and so on. The main idea is: kill them first, and trust in hit points. Boosting your initiative is advisable.

Scarab Sages

Sorry to revive this guys, but I've been conversing with the local power-gamer (great guy to talk to if you're sick of having your party's wipe) and it's got me seriously considering crossblooding after all.

The downside can be effectively negated with a four-leaf clover (hurray for fate's favoured, that +2 becomes a +4 therefore negating my "effective" -4 from being crossblooded) which is 3750GP. Not exactly cheap, but seems a worthwhile investment in that it can affect any save up to 3 times a day. And how many nasty saves are there in a Society game anyhow? My highest so far was 5.

The upside is I can get a better level 4 bloodline ability than Draconic Resistance. So, here are the options:

1:Black Blood/Aberrant - either gives me another 5' of reach. but which one is better for access to feats/spells? and aberrant gives me the option to get a tumor familiar

2: Abyssal - Free Enlarge when I'm raging (voluntary). Gives me all the pro's and con's of being larger.

which do you guys think is the better bet Black Blood/Aberrant or Abyssal for cross-blooding?


Ultimately, it depends on how you're building. Would you prefer to be stupid amounts of tanky with access to a scout? Or would you prefer having increased damage and offense at the cost of defense?

Aberrant gives you an option to effectively gain 50% of your HP with Fast Healing 5 to 50% of the damage taken. Keep in mind that you WILL NOT be using this Familiar offensively. If anything, you'll be keeping it attached to your body 100% of the time. If not, you'll be using it to scout the area. You'ed probably have a better option to choose a flying familiar or something similar, and not something focused on combat.

"When attached to the alchemist, the tumor has fast healing 5" THIS is your bread and butter of the gimmick that gives you 50% increased HP for 1 feat cost.

Protector Archetype turns your familiar into an HP Spunge with fast healing 5. Congratulations, you've effectively given yourself a "Pool" of 50% HP that recharges between encounters at level 5. So you've got yourself 40 HP? You have up to 19 Damage to soak with fast healing 5 every turn. Just make sure you don't give it 20, or it will die.

Alternatively, Abyssal gives you enlarge. Enlarge without a spell is awesome. Don't rely on your page, and you still get to slap people around with nasty demon claws.

Scarab Sages

Oh wow, that familiar is much better than I thought. I was leaning towards crossing Dragon/Abyssal before, but Dragon/Aberrant is super tempting now too.

Enlarge gives a little more presence and ups my dice, but I'm even easier to hit and (aside from that one archetype) I don't think I've ever seen one that relies on AC to stay alive.

My plans were enlarge when I rage and casting Long Arm (but that only affects arms), cast enlarge and take abnormal reach (or long arm if I don't have time to cast enlarge).

I lose a bit of action economy, but it's starting to look like taking the familiar and just casting enlarge is the way to go. TheMonkeyFish, you are both wise and cheesy - and I wouldn't have it any other way.

So, do tumor familiars act much different from a regular familiar? (minus the attaching and healing tricks, and being really gross) - Also, what seems like a better familiar for being always attached:Hedgehog for +2 WILL or Compsognathus for +4 Initiative?


It all depends on how you draw your character out. Just because its a tumor doesn't mean it has to be gross. Maybe his Familiar forms an X shaped cross on his chest, with the core in its center. At least, that is how I am drawing my character to be.

I went Hedgehog because of the plus Will save. Think of it this way, by taking the Tumor Familiar, you are gaining all of the following:

* 1 "Free" Feat - The Familiars bonus is the same as taking the Improved Initiative or Willpower feats. This in itself is worth it. You're probably getting Imp. Init. as a bloodline feat, so that be +8 Init.

* Level 3, +2 Armor - Your Familiar gains the Bodyguard and Combat Reflexes. Additionally, as long as it is tiny or diminutive, it can attack enemies it does not threaten attacking you for its Body Guard AoO.

* Level 5, 50% more HP - You can share damage taken with your familiar, and your familoar has fast healing 5. Just be careful not to kill it accidentally.

* Level 7, free feat. Die for your Master, except this one is In Harms Way for your familiar. Its good when your about to die and cant split HP anymore.

Additionally, anything that helps raise your Will save. With Tatoo's, Fats Favored, Familiar, and Aspitions Tatoo's, you gain +5 Will saves... Or +1 after penalties.

Scarab Sages

hmm, I think maybe the hedgehog. my initiative won't be great, and i've found that the dice matters a lot more than the static modifiers in my experience. only question left is can the tumor "aid another" on me while attached to me?


By RAW, I would say yes. Attached doesnt cause it to negate anything about it, only that it gains fast healing 5 and cant move away from you. Additionally, because of its diminutive size, it gains the ability to Bodyguard without threatening the enemy (RP ot as the "core" on your chest actively spreads/retracts scaring from your body to help block attack?).

By RAW, ask the GM what he thinks. Its a really cheasy mechanic.

Scarab Sages

After needing to retrain a character the other day, I wouldn't mind having the cheese done right the first time.

However, after some revelations here I think I need to open up feats for tuning as well. This is what I'm thinking:

1:Power Attack
3:Raging Vitality
5:Aberrant Tumor
7: Cleave OR Cornugan Smash
Bloodline @ 7:Combat Reflexes (I'm gonna have silly reach, I might as well?)
9:Weapon Focus -Claws OR Surprise Follow-Through
Bloodline @ 10: Blind Fight

Part of me wants to stick Arcane Strike in there somewhere, but I dunno where. Not like I'm doing anything better with my swift actions.


Angel Hunter D wrote:

Sorry to revive this guys, but I've been conversing with the local power-gamer (great guy to talk to if you're sick of having your party's wipe) and it's got me seriously considering crossblooding after all.

The downside can be effectively negated with a four-leaf clover (hurray for fate's favoured, that +2 becomes a +4 therefore negating my "effective" -4 from being crossblooded) which is 3750GP. Not exactly cheap, but seems a worthwhile investment in that it can affect any save up to 3 times a day. And how many nasty saves are there in a Society game anyhow? My highest so far was 5.

The upside is I can get a better level 4 bloodline ability than Draconic Resistance. So, here are the options:

1:Black Blood/Aberrant - either gives me another 5' of reach. but which one is better for access to feats/spells? and aberrant gives me the option to get a tumor familiar

2: Abyssal - Free Enlarge when I'm raging (voluntary). Gives me all the pro's and con's of being larger.

which do you guys think is the better bet Black Blood/Aberrant or Abyssal for cross-blooding?

Crossblooding is neat, but the Dragon Disciple levels won't increase the benefits of your second bloodline. Even if RAW would allow it, I can assure you that it's not RAI, and any sane GM would shut it down. Since this is PFS, chances are it's going to be disallowed based that it's designed to improve Draconic Bloodlines, and not serve as a generic improvement to all other bloodlines.

Sure, the option to switch between Bloodrage powers are nice, but Dragon Resistances aren't that bad of a Bloodrage power, especially since you're gaining Natural Armor on top of it. If anything, the 1st level ability (Claws) sucks, but if you're going to go Rageshaper archetype (which improve the effectiveness of your natural weapons and polymorph effects), and Dragon Disciple (which gives you a Dragon Bite with automatic 1.5x Strength in addition to your claws), you're kind of already committed to using natural weapons. I'd focus more on trying to stack as many natural weapons to your person that you possibly can, through feats, items, or otherwise. The Suli race is ridiculously strong for a Bloodrager, since they get +2 to Strength and Charisma, all-around resistances (which means you can reasonably substitute the Dragon Resistances Bloodline Power), and Elemental Assault (which can be activated and changed via a feat for extra damage).

I'd instead consider the Primalist archetype (yes, it stacks with Rageshaper) if you're wanting to substitute Bloodline powers, which instead lets you substitute one of 4th level or higher for 2 Rage Powers of your choice (and scale based off of your Bloodrager level). My suggestions are Reckless Abandon and Superstition, but there are other solid choices.

Remember that having Reach also requires having a high Dexterity to take advantage of Combat Reflexes. Between Charisma and Strength, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to make the concept of a Reach character difficult to pull off. This is true regardless of how you're getting it (being Large or otherwise). At best, it allows you to fight larger enemies without consequence, which can be done in several other ways.

As for feats, they're okay choices. I don't know what the benefit of a Tumor Familiar is, so you'd have to explain why you're getting that. Cleave sucks, so pick up Cornugon Smash so you can debuff while you beat your enemies down. For the bonus feats, I'd consider Improved Initiative and Toughness from Draconic bloodline. Initiative and Hit Points (which is why you'd take Raging Vitality) are much better than a feat that requires high Dexterity, making you MAD as all hell, and a feat that has very little to no application outside of being affected with a Blindness spell (but you should have crazy Constitution and a good Fortitude Save, meaning there's no way you can feasibly fail it).

Scarab Sages

Darksol, you seem a little late to the party so I'll fill you in.

I'm building this BECAUSE I want to use natural weapons. Even if my Aberrant bloodline doesn't progress, I just need the level 4 power and having it gives me the Tumor (which if you read above you will see it becomes an ablative HP pool equal to half my HP that I can split damage with; and it has fast healing 5 in addition to other familiar benefits)

Also, Primalist is not PFS legal, so no rage powers, and Suli require a boon last I checked. As for stacking natural attacks, I can get a Gore attack without much trouble in addition to the bite from DD.

I do like what you're getting at about Combat Reflexes though, I just don't have enough attribute points to do the reflexes well. Fighting the big things without having to get crap-kicked on the way in is probably good enough, and the option to keep regular sized enemies at arm's length sounds better than AC to me.

As for Blind Fight, I get Blindsense at higher levels so it seemed like a good idea for invisible enemies.


PFS is where I learned that DD progresses "both" bloodlines of a crossblooded sorcerer.


A comment and some questions.

what about taking mystic orc for free endurance feat and luck to saves. grab fates "favored trait" and "berserker of the society"(if allowed?), then grab die-hard line of feats.

lets assume RAW that both bloodlines increase with DD. What powers do you take, just Aberrant at 4, rest draconic.

Also a RAW question. Could you gain almost both sets of powers because you are not gaining Draconic bloodline through Sorcerer thus gaining the abilities when you reach the right level of DD. I know this is good cheddar.


Angel Hunter D wrote:

Darksol, you seem a little late to the party so I'll fill you in.

I'm building this BECAUSE I want to use natural weapons. Even if my Aberrant bloodline doesn't progress, I just need the level 4 power and having it gives me the Tumor (which if you read above you will see it becomes an ablative HP pool equal to half my HP that I can split damage with; and it has fast healing 5 in addition to other familiar benefits)

Also, Primalist is not PFS legal, so no rage powers, and Suli require a boon last I checked. As for stacking natural attacks, I can get a Gore attack without much trouble in addition to the bite from DD.

I do like what you're getting at about Combat Reflexes though, I just don't have enough attribute points to do the reflexes well. Fighting the big things without having to get crap-kicked on the way in is probably good enough, and the option to keep regular sized enemies at arm's length sounds better than AC to me.

As for Blind Fight, I get Blindsense at higher levels so it seemed like a good idea for invisible enemies.

Glad we got that cleared up then. Having a second set of sub-hit points is pretty impressive.

A good option is banned in PFS? Go figure. Sometimes I wish they stuck to that advice for situations that actually called for it *COUGHMASTEROFMANYSTYLESCRANEWINGABUSECOUGH*, excuse me. Oh well...

I wouldn't be too worried about reach creatures; don't forget, you'll have a lot of hit points and decent AC to soak up whatever damage you take. You also only provoke once ever for movement per round, so taking a hit just to get into melee range is no big deal.

Blind Fight is very synonymous with Blindsense. I just don't think either are particularly pertinent unless you're thrown into a situation where that happens (and since you're a Half-Orc with Darkvision, unless some jerk casts Deeper Darkness at you, you will hardly ever have to deal with blindness issues). Even so, Improved Initiative is always a great feat, no matter what character you play.

Scarab Sages

Dalmar, I am taking the luck traits. Also, no I can't get both bloodlines like that. Aberrant is needed for the familiar and the level 4 ability.

Darksol, they nerfed crane wing last I checked. I think I get what you mean about blindfight now so I think I'll take improved initiative instead there.

Scarab Sages

Just had a thought, since DD will end up giving me +4 STR and +2 CON what about making my belt a +DEX one? since it's the only stat I'm not increasing for free, and it'll make Combat Reflexes a more appealing option.


Just remember, you loss 2 Dex when you are Large. Its why I suggest 12 dex instead of 10.


Angel Hunter D wrote:
Darksol, they nerfed crane wing last I checked. I think I get what you mean about blindfight now so I think I'll take improved initiative instead there.

Hear that? That's the sound of the joke going over your head.

Snarkiness aside, I really think that the worry of having a "weak" Dexterity isn't that big of a deal, since all they really do is increase Dexterity-based skills (which only Acrobatics is perhaps all you'll ever use, and it scales worth crap against the enemies you'd be forced to use it on), increase Reflex Saves (which really only reduces damage you take from blasting, which is quite an inoptimal choice; could've been fixed with Primalist archetype, but you know), and increase AC. Initiative is great, but Improved Initiative will get you at a level that you need. Any character can have 6+ in their Initiative with the proper selections, without any investment in Dexterity, which is plenty for PFS.

There's always the whole "Combat Reflexes" thing, but it would require a much further investment into Dexterity than is desired to be able to make more than one Attack of Opportunity, and don't forget that it costs a precious feat. (A bonus feat from a fairly junky list, but a feat no less.)

I'd instead consider Iron Will; a +2 to Will Saves is great, and remember when you said that there are a lot of bad saves to make during PFS scenarios? Will Saves comprise ~80% of them. So not having "good" Will saves will really hurt you.

Don't forget that you do get spells to buff yourself with, which increase with Dragon Disciple levels. Don't discount the benefits of Shield (which you can learn for free, I might add), Mirror Images, and so on, so if you're wanting Dexterity for a defensive option, your spells do it on a much better scale.

Scarab Sages

Shield and mirror images are great, but as for spells my idea so far was hit myself with a wand of Long Arm, wait for my GF who's rolling a reach Cleric to get an Enlarge on me, and go to town.

I was also considering Frostbite as my main level 1 spell, multiple attacks and good reach make it look pretty appealing to me.

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