Anyone else ever think...?

[Ammon Knight of Ragathiel]

SO for a while i've been looking at Arcanist and every time the same thing keeps coming up to me. Why no rogue like archetype?

I read it and i always get the same image: a mage who breaks the normal rules of magic, changes the rules.

Tell me i'm not the only one who thinks one would be awesome.

[Artifix]

I don't really think why not a Rogue Archetype. However, what I do think of is why, oh WHY is there not a hybrid class of Rogue and either Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard. I mean we have the prestige class of Arcane Trickster, but I feel like an Arcane Bard who uses performances to getting people flat footed then sneak attacking them would be awesome. Or a Mage of sorts who uses his Rakasha Bloodline and his Rogueish Guile to help him blend in with the crowd after escaping the authorities.

[Gisher]

Artifix wrote:

I don't really think why not a Rogue Archetype. However, what I do think of is why, oh WHY is there not a hybrid class of Rogue and either Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard.

...

The Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue is pretty much a Rogue/Wizard hybrid. Psychic Detective and Questioner Investigators are, sort of, Rogue/Psychic and Rogue/Bard hybrids.

[Gisher]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

SO for a while i've been looking at Arcanist and every time the same thing keeps coming up to me. Why no rogue like archetype?

I read it and i always get the same image: a mage who breaks the normal rules of magic, changes the rules.

Tell me i'm not the only one who thinks one would be awesome.

For Arcanists, Wizards, and Sorcerers you could always transition to Arcane Trickster. With Accomplished Sneak Attacker you now only need one level in Rogue, Snakebite Striker Brawler, etc.

[Derek Dalton]

The Arcanist was one of several hybrid characters introduced in Advanced Class Guide. I played an Exploiter Wizard which grants the Wizard the abilities of an Arcanist. I liked the abilities and have considered playing the actual class.
As far as hybrid classes it's not bad. The Warpriest has been played in our group and everyone liked it thinking it worked well. The Slayer was well received. The Hunter and Swashbuckler on paper seem to work.
The rest of the classes don't impress me enough to consider playing.

[Saethori]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

Anyone else ever think...?

I don't always think. But when I do, I think silly thoughts.

[Derklord]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

SO for a while i've been looking at Arcanist and every time the same thing keeps coming up to me. Why no rogue like archetype?

What do you mean when you say "rogue"? From the meaning of the word, a rogue is someone with "no land, no master, and no legitimate trade or source of income", which kinda encompasses most adventurers.

If you're talking about the Rogue (as in the class), there is zero need for an archetype because you can easily replace anything a Rogue can do with a few spells (mainly Detect Magic, Invisibility, and Knock).

If you talk about a rogue as a personality type... well, that's more roleplaying than mechanical stuff. You don't need class features to play a loner. So what do you want to be? A skillfull, crafty guy who is good at many things? Yeah, high Int's got that covered.

[Ammon Knight of Ragathiel]

When i say rogue i mean the trap disabling scout, not "no land, no master, and no legitimate trade or source of income"

As far as the classes go i kind of think it would have made the perfect Arcane trickster esq class instead we get sorcerer wizard the least interesting combination

[Chess Pwn]

So by rogue archetype you mean getting a small bonus to disable device as a class ability on the arcanist and making them class skills?

[Blackwaltzomega]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

SO for a while i've been looking at Arcanist and every time the same thing keeps coming up to me. Why no rogue like archetype?

I read it and i always get the same image: a mage who breaks the normal rules of magic, changes the rules.

Tell me i'm not the only one who thinks one would be awesome.

For me the answer to that is simple.

The arcanist steps on too many bloody toes as it is. It gets obnoxious when the class's archetypes start to all seem like it's shouting "LOOK AT ME I CAN DO THAT TOO PAY ATTENTION TO ME!"

I don't want an arcanist that also clobbers the already struggling-to-stay-relevant rogue and steals its nice things like it stole the Sorcerer's. I'd much prefer a ROGUE archetype that steals the ARCANIST'S nice things and learns how to hack magic.

[Jokey the Unfunny Comedian]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

Tell me i'm not the only one who thinks

I, too, don't use m'noggin!

[Ammon Knight of Ragathiel]

What i'm trying to say is the Arcanist should have been more like a full class version of the Arcane trickster. except without sneak attack, more focus on the stealth, disarming, and other non hurty things and it would have contrasted amazingly with the slayer and swashbuckler both of whom are very roguey

And for the record i like the rogue, but the base absolutely sucks. The unchained version is significantly better.

Like the eldritch archer magus does the Arcane Archer thing, i mean honestly i'd like to see full versions of prestige classes as archetypes... it'd be cool and more effective than multiclassing, probably simpler than it too...not a multiclassing fan if it wasn't obvious...don't even really like dipping

[Chess Pwn]

the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue is basically the arcane trickster in a full class. Casting wizard spells and getting sneak attack.

[Derklord]

I'm sorry, but I'm struggling a bit to understand you. We are talking about a full caster with Vanish, Invisibility and Greater Invisibility on his spell list, and you aren't satisfied with the potential stealthiness?

There are six traits for you to get Disable Device as a class skill. Magic traps can be disarmed by Dispel Magic. Detect Magic and the See Magic Exploit handle detection.

I see absolutely no reason to weaken the Arcanist via an archetype just to get class features that are ten times worse than spells he already has. What exactly do you want to do that the arcanist can not easily do with traits, feats, exploits and spells?

@Blackwaltzomega: I'm sorry, but rogues aren't "struggling-to-stay-relevant". The Rogue class was irrelevant when the CRB got released, and still is irrelevant now. Unchained fixed non of the class's problems. Either Rogues are mandatory (by artificially unexplainable making other classes unable to see or disable traps), or useless (because they live in a world of magic, yet refuse to use it).

[Ammon Knight of Ragathiel]

Chess Pwn wrote:

the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue is basically the arcane trickster in a full class. Casting wizard spells and getting sneak attack.

Is eldritch scoundrel Unchained rogue compatible?

[Ventnor]

All Rogue Archetypes are compatible with the Unchained Rogue.

[Gisher]

Ammon Knight of Ragathiel wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue is basically the arcane trickster in a full class. Casting wizard spells and getting sneak attack.

Is eldritch scoundrel Unchained rogue compatible?

It is perfectly compatible, but not allowed in PFS if that matters to you.