Sacred Huntsmaster Build Advice / Questions

[Woodenman]

Ive been looking for new ideas for a new character concept. Having recently fallen in love with the Occultist, I decided to have a good look at the other classes that come with 6th level spells. And then I found Inquisitor and I liked it. I also had notions about playing something with an animal companion as that’s something else I have never played with before. Then came the crowning moment….I found Sacred Hunstmaster which melded them together with essentially just the loss of Judgment which seems like a trade to the good in my books.

But Ive got lots of questions (as this will be for PFS please answer with that in mind)….

1) The SH does not get Handle Animal as a class skill. Most (Every?) build Ive seen for SH dumps Cha (and I probably intend to as well). How do people manage to regularly meet the DC 12 check to command your wounded AC? (Im planning on taking the Blackthorn Rancher trait to make HA a class skill)

2) Domains & Inquisitions – Does anyone have any suggestions? Im strongly favoring the Inquisition that makes Bluff / Diplomacy / Intimidate key off of Wis so that im still useful in social situations but are there any other interesting suggestions? And I’ve always be a fan of the travel domain as well.

3) On that topic – What happens if the SH picks the Animal Domain? Do they get another AC at Level 4? (Presumably I could take Boon Companion to boosts it’s effective level?) Sharing all your teamworks feats with 2 AC’s seems OP. EDIT: I read an FAQ that says (in PFS) you can only have 1 combat AC/eidolon/familiar/whatever.

4) What is everyone’s view on the Eye for Talent human racial trait? I was considering it and then giving my AC +2 INT. It can then take any feat and gets twice the number of tricks – and I don’t need to teach them because AC’s start play knowing all of their tricks. Getting twice as many tricks & with access to Skirmisher Ranger tricks to boot seems….good.

5) Teamwork feats…What are the best ones for a Melee based SH & AC team (probably going to be a Tiger). So far the likely suspects seem to be Broken Wing Gambit, Escape Route, Outflank, Pack Flanking, Paired Opportunists, Precise Strike.

6) Stat Array. Yuck. The need for 13 Int for feats is painful. The array im most happy with after human racial bonus is 17/14/12/14/14/7. Anyone have any suggestions? Im not necessarily tied to Human. I would really like to get Con to 14 but I can’t get it to really work in a way that I like. I could switch Dex & Con and but the extra dex was for extra AoO’s (w/ Combat Reflexes), Armor class and to satisfy the prereq for Precise Strike.

7) Is there a way to skip the 13 Int and/or Combat Expertise prereq on the feats?

8) Ive read in various guides that Hunter (and by extension the SH) gets the best type of AC. But I don’t get why it’s better than…say… Druid who also gets a full level AC. Is it just because of access to Skirmisher Ranger tricks? Speaking of SR tricks, which ones are worth it (if any)?

9) Weapons – They are only proficient in simple weapons, additional ranged weapons and your deity’s favoured weapon. Gorum would get me the Greatsword.

10) Barding – If my AC is not proficient in armor, is there any penalty if the ACP is zero? I remember that a zero ACP would eliminate most penalties but does it eliminate them all? How do the price modifiers for special materials and different/unusual sizes interact? Which is applied first?

Build wise for feats...I've loosely decided on the following...
Ideally I want to fit Precise Strike in if its worth it. The AnC will have 3 attacks and each getting 1d6 seems solid. Finally leaving Power Attack to L9 just seems weird. But I want to set up the build fast which means leaving it till later. If I made Con 14 then I could drop Toughness and switch something else into that spot. Or just take Eye for Talent.

1: Toughness
1H: Combat Expertise
3: Paired Opportunists (TW)
3TW: Pack Flanking
5: Combat Reflexes
6TW: Outflank
7: Broken Wing Gambit (TW)
9: Power Attack
9TW:
11
12TW: Escape Route

Imp. Crit. , Precise Strike

Too many choices, not enough system mastery. Please help! Thanks.

[Ectar]

1 a training harness helps. +2 handle animal for your companion only. Trait to make it a class skill. Don't forget, animal companions and their Mayers have a bond that gives a +4 to handle them.
First levels it may not be guaranteed, but a few skull ranks will do it. Plus is a free action, so you're not wasting time even if toy fail.

2. Those are good ones.

3. In PFS, you can never have mode than one combat pet. This includes animal companions, mounts, and eidolons. Summons are fine.

4. Most of the "best" companions have 2 int so they get 6 tricks at level 1, so the extra int probably isn't worth losing a feat.
And they certainly don't know all the tricks. I'm pretty sure it's 3x int score. But don't quote me on that. And Pathfinder rules mean that even a sentient animal (>3 int) needs handle animal checks to use tricks they know.

5. try here and here for advice one teamwork feats.

6. Skipping

7. Not for the feats you have listed. Dirty fighting if you wanted maneuvers, but that's usually a bad choice for a 3/4 bab character. Could dip brawler, but that delays lots of stuff.

8. Also all day animal focus. Plus that same buffs as a druid. SH gets different bus, but still good since you can put personal buffs on kitty. Not familiar enough with skirmisher tricks and not enough time to look them all up, sorry.

9. Sure would. You can check the archivesofnethys for all Pathfinder deities and their weapons.

10. Sorry answer, yes. If ACP is zero, they're is no penalty. Non-proficiency penalty gets applied to attacks. No penalty means no real problem. No time to answer about special materials now.

[Chess Pwn]

Look at taking a level dip into wild child brawler.
Dip is bad cause losing caster levels BUT it progress your AC and lets you skip prereqs, cause you count as having 13 int.

[Fromper]

Not sure if that Wild Child archetype is legal in PFS. Same for Eye for Talent, actually. Be sure to check the Additional Resources.

For my Huntmaster Inq, I went half-orc, which gave me a nice racial weapon proficiency. But I also went with a deity that doesn't have a good weapon.

I took the Divine subdomain of the Magic domain. Here's the 1st level ability:

Quote:

Divine Vessel (Su): Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you can, as a swift action, grant each ally within 15 feet of you a divine boon. This boon grants a +2 bonus on the next attack roll, skill check, or ability check made before the end of their next turn. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Since it's a swift action, not immediate, it only works on my own turn, but the bonus lasts until the end of the target's next turn. So it gives a bonus to my companion animal, to me for my attack on my next turn, and to all allies within range at the time. So I can cast a buff on myself to start any fight (Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Expeditious Retreat to keep up with my deinonychus, etc), and give everyone a nice little bonus on their next attack.

I'd think the main advantage of Hunter/Huntmaster over a druid is the shared teamwork feats. Those provide some really nice stuff. Mine's only level 2 so far, but I'm looking at stuff like Pack Flanking, Outflank, Precise Strike, Improved Spell Sharing (Divine Favor at higher levels and/or Divine Power!), Shake it Off, etc.

[Chess Pwn]

both are legal.

[andreww]

1. You are going to need either Handle Animal or Ride, possibly both. You can grab Handle Animal with Beast Bond which also gives a bonus to ride. You want to be riding your animal companion as soon as possible as it enables a lot of useful teamwork feats far more easily.

2. You don't need a very high handle animal skill. You get +4 to handle your own pet, a training harness gives +2. If you are riding your AC you don't need to use handle animal but you want to be able to hit DC10 Ride without rolling to direct your mount. Make sure it has combat riding trained.

3. You are likely to swop out your AC at various points during the game. In PFS a new AC only arrives with bonus tricks, you can train a number of new tricks equal to your ranks in handle animal per session. I would recommend going to about 4 ranks as being enough. If you need a higher skill bonus the cracked magenta ioun stone offers +2 competence for 800gp.

4. My sacred huntmaster uses the Reformation Inquisition. I use is for diplomacy and intimidate and can roll twice a few times per day.

5. If you take the Animal Domain then don't go Sacred Huntmaster. If you want an AC by this route you will want to invest in Boon Companion. PFS allows no more than one combat pet at a time.

6. I wouldn't take Eye for Talent. Inquisitor wants lots of feats as the teamwork ones work extremely well for you. You are not limited to only taking teamwork feats from your bonus feats.

7. For teamwork feats pack flanking and outflank are the key ones as a melee inquisitor. Its hard not to love +4 to hit for you and your AC at all times. I highly rate improved spell sharing, it gives you excellent action economy and makes your spell slots go much further. Escape Route lets you ride around the battlefield and you wont provoke at all.

8. For stat array accept that the 13 Int means you are going to have a lower starting Str. At level 6 ou will not have accuracy problems and you can give yourself free stat bumps with hunter focus. I went with 15, 12, 14, 13, 15, 7 and I out the level 4 bump into str. The level 8 bump will be wisdom. I wouldn't dip to get round combat expertise under any circumstances. There is only 1 dip that I would consider sensible which I discuss below.

9. Skirmisher Ranger tricks are pretty good, upending strike, bolster companion and vengeance strike are all pretty decent but don't neglect combat riding.

10. Gorum makes a great choice for inquisitor, it was my choice as well. Shelyn is actually pretty decent too but I am not keen on using a reach weapon on a large base due to the deadzone. It can make positioning awkward.

11. Barding with ACP0 can be worn with no negative effect. Masterwork Studded Leather and Mithril chain shirt are common choices.

12. As far as AC choice goes at level 4 I would take the constrictor snake as it grows to large and has grab. You will probably take a -5 penalty to ride mind. At level 7 I would go with one of Roc (it flies, 80' speed, grab), tiger (pounce) or ankylosaurus (tail daze, very high AC).

13. Lastly dipping. There is only one class I would consider dipping for and it would be a single level of sohei monk. This lets you take any mounted combat feat as a bonus feat which opens up mounted skirmisher. This lets you make a single move and still full attack.

[Woodenman]

Thanks to everyone who replied...

What feats & tricks do people generally give to their Animal Companions?
Im thinking Weapon Finesse for starter for the best hit bonus...

Tricks wise Im thinking Attack x2, Defend, Down, Fetch, Seek which leaves one more.

Any suggestions?

For skirmisher tricks - many of them talk about the PC doing an action instead of the companion - I find this quite confusing. How do these work exactly?

Examples:
Upending Strike (Ex): The ranger can use this trick as a free action just before he makes a melee attack. If the attack hits, he may make a free trip combat maneuver against the target.

Does taking this trick for your animal companion mean that the AC can use it as a free action or does it only work for the PC?

Vengeance Strike (Ex): The ranger can use this trick as an immediate action when an enemy adjacent to him hits an ally with a melee or ranged attack. The ranger can make a single melee attack at his highest base attack bonus against the creature who attacked his ally.

If the AC knows this as a trick is it the AC that gets the immediate action strike or the PC?

[BadBird]

One thing you can do with an animal is take Paired Opportunists, and then exploit things that usually only grant an ally an AoO.

For example, Shield Slam + Greater Bull Rush = ally gets AoO = you get AoO. Same with Drag. Neither of these requires Combat Expertise or have the issues that tripping does, but they end up granting an AoO just like Greater Trip would. Shield Slam is particularly potent, considering you don't even give up an attack to trigger an AoO burst; you can let your ally move up, then charge/slam/bullrush, triggering ally AoO, triggering your AoO. By the time the target actually gets thrown back they've been hit three times. With a Wolf ally making trip attacks, you can potentially add 'thrown back and knocked over'.

[andreww]

Woodenman wrote:

Thanks to everyone who replied...

What feats & tricks do people generally give to their Animal Companions?
Im thinking Weapon Finesse for starter for the best hit bonus...

Tricks wise Im thinking Attack x2, Defend, Down, Fetch, Seek which leaves one more.

Combat Riding takes up 6 tricks and then Attack any Target. I would add Exclusive and Flank. Everything else is pretty much gravy.

I wouldn't bother with Weapon Finesse. You AC's strength will outstrip dexterity pretty quickly. I would look at some combination of Power Attack, Narrow Escape (important when it hits large), Combat Reflexes (for AC's with each), Iron Will (AC's have terrible will saves), Extra Item Slot (Shoulders, for Cloak of Resistance, again terrible will saves) and Toughness (for the Roc in particular given their low Con). If you plan on charging then consider getting Dragon Style to let you charge through allies and difficult terrain. You will need Int 3 for it.

[Fromper]

If you're planning to get the Pack Flanking feat, then the flank trick is skippable.

[andreww]

Fromper wrote:

If you're planning to get the Pack Flanking feat, then the flank trick is skippable.

I would still take it in the event that you end up not riding your companion at any point.

[Fromper]

My huntmaster doesn't ride the animal. We still move up to attack the same enemies. Situations where you're not getting the flank bonus that way should be rare enough that it's not worth wasting a trick on.

[Woodenman]

My character and AC are both medium size so I can't ride it without jumping through more hoops. Which I don't want to do.

Str and Dex rise evenly until level 7 when the AC grows and gets a big Str bump. Until then hitting with Dex is higher by 2.

Nobody explained the skirmisher tricks - any idea what's up with them?