I don't see how Eldritch Heritage was supposed to get you a animal companion but seeing it's prerequisite is another feat.
I would say toss Skill Focus (Knowledge (Nature)) and Eldritch Heritage in place of Nature Soul and Animal Ally. That should get you an animal companion.
Edit- Ah now I see, no wonder I was having a hard time figuring it out.
Nature Soul + Animal Ally works, but it requires a source book not allowed by the GM. (From memory it's in Faiths and Philosophies).
The tricky part about his character though is that it heavily maxes AC, which means intelligent enemies just avoid the character thats impossible to hit and go after easier (and potentially more dangerous) targets like the party Wizard. I played a Mystery Cultist / Oracle / Paladin character once and did the exact same thing, boost your AC to massive levels but then you get simply ignored because anyone with half decent intelligence will go for something that they can actually defeat. The best "tank" build I ever saw was someone using a summoner with the Shadow Blend evolutions on his Eidolon which spammed Antagonise. Damn thing just didn't die.
Sacred Servant...ALMOST works, but I can't take any domain that would give me an animal companion
Oath of Vengeance would shore up some of the damage I would need to put out to keep creatures from just ignoring me, but at the same time that gives me back Spells, and I am trying for a spell less warrior..[I didn't actually think about taking spells on the Oracle side, I was thinking of the ST/GM using it as a way to give us cryptic hints along the way from one of the five gods that the godclaw worship]
I think everyone is forgetting a simple fact. In RP we have no idea about anyone's AC or class. No one should be metagaming.
No matter how smart an enemy is, without prior information, they can only rely on what their senses tell them. How are they going to know that's a wizard or a tank. Glamer your armor or don't wear a big pointy hat while wielding a staff saying "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
If your concerned about mobility and keeping up with anyone that figures out your a tough nut after a few rounds. Buy a wand of expeditious retreat, have it used at the start of every battle. See how much they ignore you when you cutting them off and repeatedly stabbing them in the back.
^ummm I completly forgot something.
Would any of US turn thier back on a hellknight no matter how big the creature is? I sure as heck wouldn't. Doesn't matter that that he doesn't hurt alot. Cause if hes a hellknight, hes never going to give up, not going to surrender,and will hunt whatever/whomever it is that attacked him till the Ouearth stops turning and the Stars in the sky die.
Aolis your a genius!!
Buy a wand of expeditious retreat, have it used at the start of every battle. See how much they ignore you when you cutting them off and repeatedly stabbing them in the back.
"Expeditious Retreat
School transmutation; Level alchemist 1, bard 1, inquisitor 1, magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner/unchained summoner 1; Subdomain azata (chaos, good) 1, exploration 1
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you"
Expeditious REtreat is target: you, so someone can't use the wand ON him, he'd need some UMD to use it on himself since the class list for it doesn't include any of the classes he has at present. Just sayin'
Nature Soul+Animal Affinity=Wolf in Hellknight plate??
It would still be twice as fast if not a little bit more than me.
I think everyone is forgetting a simple fact. In RP we have no idea about anyone's AC or class. No one should be metagaming.
No-one is metagaming lol, but I fully expect that a team of high level adventurers that (eventually) go mythic, draw enough attention to for some enemies to get a vague idea of their capabilities. Apologies if I was unclear but prior information is exactly what I'm attempting to refer to here since we probably have a "rep" of some sort which is why we are before Majesty Rupert Surtova.
@ Grog
Yup, Nature Soul+Animal Affinity works! We just need Corsario to sign off on it sicne its outside his initial source list.
Ah he picked the only classes that do not get it. With a wand key ring and a few ranks it could work but that may be a bit much.
Edit- Well at such a high level where we will be scryed on and information gathered about us, we should have defenses against it as well. I know I will. But unless every single creature and monster in the land is going to take the time and resources to find out about us, it should not be a common issue. Anyways at high levels you don't ignore anyone to try and get to someone else. You do and you tend to die, that goes for PCs as much as baddies.
Umm... Why are you going to all this trouble to get a mount? Just pick one with divine bond. If you don't like it being behind in levels ask if you can take boon companion. If you're worried about it falling behind in the future replace pally 5/oracle 1 with pally 2/cavalier 4... Take order of the star (so Lay Hands doesn't lag too bad) and pick up the horsemaster feat. You lose out on whichever revelation you were using to get Cha to AC but you already know your AC is high enough that it might be a problem (plus whenever you smite you'll get you Cha to AC again, which you miss out on with those revelations since you can't add it twice).
Anyways at high levels you don't ignore anyone to try and get to someone else. You do and you tend to die, that goes for PCs as much as baddies.
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If I'm facing (say) a Runelord at high levels, I'll sure as hell focus down the spellcaster than worrying about any mooks he might have. I'll always prefer eliminating what looks to be the most dangerous threat as the priority, but I understand it if people want to focus down his allies next to him enemies first. Each to his or her own of course, although I'd stop short at the "tend to die if you do it this way' line. It didn't bother me when I completed Wrath of the Righteous.
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Oooo, he could get an axe beak!! I don't know what Axhammer had originally, but an axe beak could stand up to Alexander's bear ... ;)
Umm... Why are you going to all this trouble to get a mount? Just pick one with divine bond. If you don't like it being behind in levels ask if you can take boon companion. If you're worried about it falling behind in the future replace pally 5/oracle 1 with pally 2/cavalier 4... Take order of the star (so Lay Hands doesn't lag too bad) and pick up the horsemaster feat. You lose out on whichever revelation you were using to get Cha to AC but you already know your AC is high enough that it might be a problem (plus whenever you smite you'll get you Cha to AC again, which you miss out on with those revelations since you can't add it twice).
The Charisma to AC replaces Dexterity to AC, smite gives a Deflection bonus to AC, they do stack that way :P
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If I'm facing (say) a Runelord at high levels, I'll sure as hell focus down the spellcaster than worrying about any mooks he might have. I'll always prefer eliminating what looks to be the most dangerous threat as the priority, but I understand it if people want to focus down his allies next to him enemies first. Each to his or her own of course, although I'd stop short at the "tend to die if you do it this way' line. It didn't bother me when I completed Wrath of the Righteous.
At high levels, those mooks can be dragons, powerful outsiders, or equally high level NPCs. They are all smart if not experienced to varies degrees, spellcasters most of all. At least they should be in my opinion. In the end it depends on the DM and their preference of difficulty. Some DMs hold back or skew things, others allow the rolls to be as brutal as they may. I expect no kindness or restraint on the DMs part, I simply appreciate it when it occurs. :)
I forgot the smite AC bonus was typed; that should stack, you're right. The rest of what I said is true though: getting an animal companion is really easy if you just scale back slightly on min/maxing for AC.
What was your Charisma before racial mods? Simply dropping that down to an 18 to bump your Strength wouldn't affect your AC (cause of max Dex bonus) and only reduces smite potency and Knowledge skills by 1. It would help from a damage standpoint, at least.
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Being a control cleric, I'm actually sure that the wizards and such will have an easy time taking care of the enemies. Casting mage armor and sheild actually increases a wizards armor to the level of full plate. Then you can cast barkskin as well and have a total of 22AC on a wimpy mage. As long as you are properly prepared.
He may actually have plenty of time, because I'm sure the monster that the mages could summon would encourage more aggression than the fighter or mage its self.
Higher levels are less certain than lower (no more dumb goblins and kobolds) but you may still want a tank. AC hoarders can still be hounded with energy attacks themselves. And most high level monsters actually incapacitate mele before moving into mages... unless they see more advantage attacking the mage. A demon is likely to slaughter a mage (or dominate him) than attack a fighter. Vampires actually try to dominate the melee first, then move onto mages.
Also, i wanted to ask, since I am a dwarf, would my spiritual weapon be a dwarven waraxe?
Yes, I loved the thematics of Axhammer, don't leave over a mechanics issue. We can all work to resolve it.
Yeah in a fight without magic a magus will lose. But that is sort of the point of being a magus. A fighter against a magus with magic, the fighter will lose. A melee fighter is no good against a magus, magus don't have to get close. A ranged fighter will lose because they can get close with ease. But that is only putting it in the most basic terms, alot of factors go in and their is no catch all answer for any of it.
What I can say now is that Sacha can fly at will, to escape or close the distance, add a +20 to her first attack when she makes it, and heal herself. To name a few tricks, she is one tough and cunning cookie. Beware. ;)
Oh, I agree, but at higher levels the magic becomes less of an advantage as the fighter will have gear that counters its effectiveness. Also, at high level, I can cause all of your insight, competence and moral bonuses to be suppressed for 10 rounds, True strike is an insight bonus. I completely shut down Barbarians. There is a neck item that essentially gives me the Aura of Cowardice ability, it costs 35,000 (if I remember correctly), once I have that I don't have to worry about fear immunity anymore.
Now now boys, don't get too excited. You can have a "first blood" dual when both of you hit your respective power spikes to decide who is better ;)
Still looking for Jovich, The Orc Next Door, and William Nightmoon to fill in the 'competence area' columns on the sheet.
I find the fact that the cohorts are often stronger and more diverse thant their leaders to be ... interesting. Possibly a little out of whack, I dunno. Of the four characters self-identified as being cumulatively rated over 2, three of them are cohorts ...
That's rather amusing, that some of the cohorts are stronger than their leaders... or is it perhaps just that they are more versatile?
Yeah I would disagree that its cohorts being stronger, and more because the spreadsheet favours / rewards versatility over strength. An alchemist for instance, can go melee, ranged, control, buff, and heck, even heal. An Air Kineticist can also do the same. That said, it wouldn't make any of them "stronger" than a wizard, just that some classes might have more archetypes or options that fit within these categories.
^^This exactly^^
I only really count what they can do on a "average" day. In the case of my wizard what he leans towards in his spell selection.
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It's the river kingdoms, pretty sure chaotic is a solid bet. Bandits willing to kill people in order to rob them, sounds pretty solid to me too on the evil side.
^this is something we have to do as well
You can guarentee Ishana is going to avoid Axhammer like the plague. Even to some extent Amavin would probably stay away, not really wanting to work alongside someone that pretty much makes it their business to eliminate people of her alignment or heck, anyone that worships Ishana's deity, unless I'm missing the point of the hellknight class.
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Not going to lie, Amavin and Ishana, are not people that Axhammer would have worked with period. That free spirit and disregard for law would be further from offputting as you can get.
Alexander as well, though care free he takes Law to have a capital letter and feels that anyone besmirching it is tearing down not only Law, but he himself.
The Laws of the Land,as well as the the Measure and Chain dictate to what and how he should proceed, think of it like a paladin with an evil party member eventually something would come to head, unless they were sleeping together.
[Love conquers all blah blah ect. ]
They are both of Good alignment so niether of them would plot or do anything to endanger the characters lives, but to be honest, something would have to be attacking either of the ladies for Alexander or Axhammer to move
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Still might pay letting her know some of that IC so that neither of them are concerned with Alexander / Axhammer slaying them or something since there's nothing to say Hellknights give a free pass to people of CG alignment. Ergo until told otherwise, probably react as if both were a highly viable and dangerous threat.
Worth noting Ishana and Amavin don't actually mind working with lawful allies, its just the entire "Hellknight, destroyer of Chaos" that puts them off
Azrael is fairly tolerant, but like Alexander, he'd have a problem hanging with Amavin and Ishana on a regular, long-term basis... He'd have no problem with them on a personal level... he likes almost everyone, but they'd clash on really important matters, like moral decisions and such.
Merus is actively plotting against the Surotova's. Stefan is a slightly redeemed criminal. So...
Aramil is very much a kind person who believes in second chances, regardless of what the law says. Porablum is seeking adventure, excitement, and to complete her greatest artistic work.
I could see them working with Amavin and Ishana - although it does make us kind of big on the arcane, and really makes us lightning focused.
Are the groups going to be split up by level also? Mixing 7th level with 5th level might be problematic.
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Hi everybody!
Sorry for the delay, my preparations are taking longer than expected. But don't worry, I am still here, and still very excited in this campaign.
About the "the enemies are going to ignore my heavy AC character": Don't worry about it. I won't. The enemies will go after him as the Hellknight he is. I have played tanks, and I know how frustrating that can be if the DM "metagames" the enemies to know they can just bypass them.
On that they sometimes will try, but not all the time.
Are the groups going to be split up by level also? Mixing 7th level with 5th level might be problematic.
Depends on the situation, doesn't it? Alysandra can out-social anyone here. ;)
In regards to the groups, etc. I've added a couple or five columns to the sheet for us to put in L/N/C, G/N/E (though IIRC, there's no E here? I don't remember), a short goal/aspiration thing - maybe the character's story feat? As well as any special background hooks they might have - places they worked, perhaps, or 'style' of work (quiet political/criminal work, bold heroing, etc.).
For Coalhouse and Alysandra I put in their alignment 'numerical' value; if everyone wants, we can do it that way, to get a more granular level. Also, the +/- column next to them indicates how far along that line you'd go.
Example:
Coalhouse is LG - 3/3, which makes him close to Neutral on both counts. I've put 7 in on his '+/-' by Law/Chaos, which means he is willing to work with anyone from rigidly Lawful characters down to the most impulsive Chaotic sorts. Good/Evil, however, only has a 3 - which means he's not willing to work with outright evil individuals. Alysandra, though she's in the same Law/Chaos boat as Coalhouse, is firmly Good (2), but also only has a 3-point variance - which means she isn't willing to work with someone who is on the dark grey side of Neutral.
I respect the work put into it, but its starting to get a little complicated for me, and when I look at the sheet, it doesn't help me personally from seeing what combinations work best.
I'm comfortable putting mine in word format though, I can explain it better, and I get more out of it than looking at a bunch of numbers on a sheet. I'm the words guy as opposed to the stats guy.
So
Amavin: Technically, shes CG, but she hovers between that NG/CG line. Realistically, she's CG at the moment due to Ishana's influence but I don't see her as rigidly sticking to it, probably fluctuating between the two during the campaign. Alignment wise, she's perfectly happy working with anyone, although she would probably be slightly wary of just Axhammer, but probably not Alexander though. The interesting thing is that despite Axhammers borderline hostility towards anything chaotic, Amavin would probably be naively curious as to why 'good' (read: alignment) people couldn't productively work together. Probably an IC thing for her. As for "why shes here" Amavin's goals shouldn't really clash with anyone. She's here for humanitarian reasons, helping others less fortunate and so on, and probably eventually settling down and actually having a proper home for herself, as she hasn't had that before. Also, shes excited about meeting nobility :)
Going into a little more detail, Amavin's very much into nature, mostly weather, but also appreciation for forests, rivers and so on. I don't think we have any druids here, but she would have gotten along with most of them just fine!
Ishana: Slightly different to Amavin and that shes very much CG and isn't likely to change. Again, like Amavin is largely flexible enough in her opinions to not really mind who she works with, with anyone with hellknight training being the notable exception. See, the primary issue for this is that Ishana is happy just setting up a temple for people of her race to celebrate one of their most prominent deities. Naturally, she feels a little bit persecuted with a hellknight around thats ready to get his or her smite on against followers of her deity. So to conclude, its not that Ishana couldnt or wouldnt work with a hellknight (unusually enough), its just that she probably feels she's going to be stabbed in the back at some point (even if as I player I suspect there's no chance of that happening).
Anyway, Ishana, in strict contrast to Amavin, is urban focused, she likes cities, taverns and so on, so the creation of expansion of a city is pretty exciting for her. She's probably extremely appreciative of anyone that favors her style of fighting (Dex over Str as she favours personal maneuverability and is distasteful of pure strength), is respectful of anyone devotedly following their deity (regardless if they be lawful or chaotic) or anyone strong in the arcane arts, something she considers an area where she would like to improve on. She's in this for the excitement and adventure, plus also, you know, to eliminate any bandit tribes in the area. She HATES those.
Umm, thats mostly what I have, might expand a little more when I have more time to reflect. General opinions tho on some questions already raised:
On level 5 vs level 7: Yeah I'd prefer level 7 characters to stick with level 7, and 5 with 5. I just think it creates a situation where no-one feels outshone from anyone else in the group, but thats my only real reason for supporting it.
Oh right and Aramil's mention: dont worry too much about the lightning. I'll probably pick up that mythic power option so I can change the element type. Like, she's still lightning (thats her "thing" but I don't forsee it as being a crippling weakness if we ran into a lightning elemental or something, she would just switch spells or elements.
Oh yeah and before I forget, Anyone can take a look at what I put and try and get a number out of it like a 3 or a 7 or whatever the heck it is for me, but I probably wont be adding it myself.
EDIT omg this was so much more of a tl;dr than I meant it to be. Sorry!
7-9 being Chaotic, it sounds like she's a 7 on that part, with a '2' on the part of Good.
To be entirely honest, I tend to get the sense that Hellknights are less concerned about CG than they are CE. CE is madly after personal power and mayhem, and don't care how they get it; while 'freedom for everyone' may upset even a LE Hellknight's plans, I honestly can't see a LG Hellknight putting the smite down on a CG individual unless they were inciting to riot - which, when you get down to it, is not likely to produce a good result except in very evil (and only sometimes Lawful) areas. After the Hellknight gets done cleaning out the endless layers of the Abyss, he'll start in on Pandemonium. It'll be a while before he gets over to the CG zones ... but for the life of me I simply cannot imagine any sort of world in which warriors (hellknights, paladins, whatever) just ride around and kill people out of the blue. How do you explain that to the local magistrate?? "Your miller was chaotic evil!!" "Uh-huh. A right bastard he was, greedy and selfish and we did suspect he shorted people. That don't give you the right to stick a blazing sword through his heart, buddy."
I think a lot of people are looking at simplistic basics ('Lawful Hellknight with Smite Chaos') and thinking 'that character is always going to be out to get me.' In a world with even the vaguest nod towards normal society and psychology, 'That Character' is going to try to get you to change your views, maybe try very hard - but is probably only going to haul out the Smite Alignment if you start posing a threat, in part because of exactly the above 'slain miller' scenario.
Now, the following happens to be my view on paladins, but it sort of applies to the Hellknight - and, in fact, anyone who is involved with a campaign, in any direction, who might have characters of 'opposing alignments' involved.
At the same time, the paladin constantly questions the associate as to why they are dedicated to evil why they do it, what the true results (both short term and long) are, how the person feels the Gods view their actions, that sort of thing. They engage the evil associate in nonphysical battle, because to change Evil to Good (or at least to Neutral) is destroying Evil just as thoroughly as putting a sword through its heart. Even better, because an evil being turned into a good being can then go out and accomplish good in its turn.
And again, the paladin is not Lawful Stupid; paladins are big believers in 'trust but verify' and 'a broken contract is broken on both sides;' he is not a superhero, and 'not killing them is what makes us better than them' does not even get a ping on his radar, because of the functional morality of 'by not ending his Evil, I too am accountable for the subsequent evil he has done.' "Just because Snidely Whiplash has done the evil deed he agreed not to do doesn't mean that I should do what I told him I wouldn't" is a metric ton worth of bullsh!t. The paladin will agree to something (willingly surrender herself for three days of torment, meet peaceably before a battle, whatever) in exchange for something (the Red Duke goes free and unmolested for those three days, the opposition swears to a truce during the meeting, etc.). If Snidely Whiplash violates the agreement by attacking the Red Duke before those three days are up, or arranges for an attack during the meeting, Dudley DoRight is going to crack open not just one can of whupass, but the entire sixpack.
Nor is he going to walk into a situation without having an absolute method of knowledge and engagement; he forces the evil priests to swear on their power (which, if they arrange for an attack on the Red Duke, they will lose), he brings his shield and sword in with him and watches for betrayal, all that sort of thing. He is also a great believer in 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me,' and though he might agree to a second attempt, will stack the deck heavily in his favor against a betrayal, and would refuse a third attempt entirely - if, that is, the evil individual survived the first or second betrayals.
Truth is, one should consider it to be Good and Evil, Order and Chaos - the Paladin is a champion of Orderly Good - but good more than order. If someone is using a law to turn the screws on some poor innocent shlub, the paladin isn't going to sit back and let it happen; he's going to move in and do something so that Good is served. If he can preserve order, so much the better - but if a legal or societal stricture is being used frequently to deliberately do harm to others, it ain't something that a paladin can stand.
As well, a paladin has to be pro-choice. Good must not be enforced; it must be selected out of free will. (Evil is fine with forcing you into it.) That flexibility can ennable a paladin - especially one working in a highly difficult campaign, with 'chaotic' characters - to work closely with such individuals. And 'pro-choice' is something a Chaotic Good character should always respect.
The two key points here are a) engagement, and b) free will / choice.
Consciously choosing Law over Chaos means obeying even bad laws, or sticking with your personal code, strictures, routine, etc. despite prevailing opinions and great difficulty. Lawful doesn't have to automatically mean 'laws of man', or even 'laws of the gods'; if you have a philosophy or even a daily routine, following its requirements despite it being 112 degrees in the shade or -5 degrees inside (when it would be better to simply take the day off) makes you a Lawful individual. Paladins' Lawfulness is the Laws of their God, not the Laws of Man.
Similarly with Chaos; you have to intentionally vary your routine, defy nonsensical laws ('you shall never ride in this lane ever, for it is reserved for the High Panjandrum': "Screw that for a lark."), and perhaps even let random chance decide your course on occasion ("Where we eating?" "I dunno, let me consult my Magic 8-Ball."); in short, to let personal preferences rule over the hundreds of useless laws that get put into effect, and choosing to obey the few that aren't useless because they help keep you alive. For a Chaotic individual, every day is a choice - and though you can choose to obey all the laws of the city, for a Chaotic individual the importance lies in considering the decision to follow that particular law every single time. And like the Lawful individual, they should be following the urge to independence and/or randomness even when perhaps a choice to go along with the laws should be obvious.
There is a reason why most beings are True Neutral, with perhaps leanings in one direction or another; they don't actively and intensely choose to pursue one direction or another.
TL;DR - there is no real reason why characters of opposing alignments should not work together. Conflict drives the story; between PCs that can mean 'low-level friendly personality conflict' and engender great RP.
Don't put each other into boxes into which you'll never look ...
Read up on the Order of the Stick to see a paladin that has gone to far and the repercussions. Silly fanatics. ;)
Actually this issue more is struggling to see Paladin into Hellknight. Paladin already covers all evil, that's lawful evil, neutral evil, and chaotic evil. So what does Hellknight cover that isn't already handled by Smite Evil? Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good. I don't think it's a huge leap to accuse anyone with that combination of wanting to cover a wider range of Smite Targets. That said, it doesn't matter, maybe your stereotypical Paladin Hellknight lost his parents to a someone Chaotic, That's perfectly fine. It does however, still make it a perfectly reasonable explanation why a CG character might feel concerned or threatened.
In a nutshell, that's all this is. This isn't drawing conclusions between alignment systems, it's a reasonable reaction to a specific person that has taken steps to cover smiting non evil opponents, and said CG character feeling threatened because of it. Fighter Hellknight, she wouldn't care because you can claim that you are exclusively targeting some evil alignment, what purpose does Paladin Hellknight serve other than smiting non evil opponents? Hence, (whether fair or not) her reaction.
I 100% agree though with everything under choice and engagement hence the advice a few posts back for Axhammer to IC inform Ishana that it's all good - no reason to be concerned.
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Folks lets make it simple. And I apologize for doing it that way.
As far as I understood the people have traveled and adventured in the past. Not all with all but some teamed up. Lets say we have two flags. Red Flag with the symbol of the godclaw is one team.
Blue Flag with Broken chains is the other.
Just say wich colour you prefer. The real flag will be diffrent of course. If there is a symbol. Just to make it easier for all.
Is there a third flag? May I suggest green with something earthy as a symbol. :)