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I don't really want to talk about Perception as a Class Skill, but OK. Since the Soldier didn't get it as a Class Skill, no one should. It made me so angry that the class that should get it first was left out, I thought of house ruling that only Soldiers can pass Perception checks. Apparently situational awareness isn't something that's done in space, neither is guard duty, but oh well. Seriously, there is no argument for a Soldier not getting Perception that doesn't work for every other class. So the Mechanic definitely, no way in the Abyss, doesn't get it. I'll be very disappointed in Paizo if any other classes get Perception.
As far as Class Skills go for the Mechanic, I agree 100% with what you suggested (ignoring Perception as a suggestion for the Mechanic because that's offensive). The other classes listed so far have 1/2 the number of Skill Points/level as the total number of Class Skills they have. You listed 8 Class Skills, so 4/level.
Also, yeah the Mystic gets 6/level. I have no idea why. Medicine, a couple of knowledge skills, maybe Sense Motive, and they'd be good, but instead they're kinda bloated with skills. I think that might end up being a thing in Starfinder, Skill Bloat. Sure the Soldier needed extra Class Skills (including Perception because they use their ears and eyeballs when they're on guard duty!), but the Cleric and Bard were fine with their number of skills/level as far as I knew.
"Bloated with skills" sounds absurd to me. Being skill-starved is generally very unfun in Pathfinder. Having more skill points is something I always support.
I would see Mechanic as another skill monkey class (especially if they have an AI assistant) and a choice of skills to represent scientists and doctors, not just engineers.
Class skills: Computers, Culture, Engineering, Life Science, Physical Science, Medicine, Profession, Disable Device.
And Perception. If you want to fix something you have to be able to spot what is wrong with it.
Having seen a couple of Mechanic characters in action and their character sheets at PaizoCon, I can say that Mechanics are good at Computers and Engineering with skills and I think they have some class abilities that make them even better at those skills. Also, I am pretty sure I saw at least one of those characters with a high Perception bonus on the sheet. I believe at least one of them, if not both of the Mechanic sheets I saw had Medicine on it.
As for the rest of those skills, well, I remember somebody from Paizo telling those of us present that Disable Device is no longer a skill in Starfinder (I think it was Owen KC Stephens during his Emerald Spire game); it's rolled up into Engineering. Certainly, that is how we used it during that game. My technomancer and the mechanics present were all using our engineering skill to disable traps, get through doors, and whatnot. Also, for that matter, I think I remember that Use Magic Device got rolled up into Mysticism, though I don't remember it coming up during play.
What's more, I'm pretty sure that someone stated that no one get more skills than the operative and the envoy. I can't seem to find the quote, but I know someone at Paizo stated that in either an article or a response to it here on the website or said so in a panel or interview at PaizoCon (I don't remember who it was, either).
So, no, I don't think that the Mechanic is a skill monkey class. That role is filled by the operative and the envoy. Mechanics is more the... pet class and the... specialized in dealing with technology class (seeing two different versions of it in play makes me say it that way). The mechanic with the exocortex (the AI you were referring to) is a bit more skill focused, but I think that is more to do with class feature enhancements to existing skills that work sort of like Skill Focus, not because his skill list gets bigger. Oh yeah, I remember his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.
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Also, yeah the Mystic gets 6/level. I have no idea why. Medicine, a couple of knowledge skills, maybe Sense Motive, and they'd be good, but instead they're kinda bloated with skills. I think that might end up being a thing in Starfinder, Skill Bloat. Sure the Soldier needed extra Class Skills (including Perception because they use their ears and eyeballs when they're on guard duty!), but the Cleric and Bard were fine with their number of skills/level as far as I knew.
A cleric absolutely needs 3 skills/level, not 2. Every cleric in order to function has to take both knowledge religion and spellcraft at every level. They should have one more to 'customize' and use on diplomacy (if built with good CHA for channeling) or heal or something that makes their character who they are.
his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.
So Master Chief was a multi classed Mechanic/Soldier?
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Based on what we've seen so far, I'd guess mechanics get 6/level and one of those will be perception. I would assume this for 2 reasons:
1) I'm sure mechanics, like operatives, are more than just what they seem by name. Engineers,for example. So they're probably going to have more skills, especially since I think the soldier is going to be the lowest.
2) as the class that basically do the whole thing where they disable devices, they'll need to be able to spot them. Plus to be able to listen to an engine and figure out what's wrong, you need to be perceptive.
Also expecting poor will saves as every class so far has them as strong. Good fort, as they inhale fumes all day. Not sure about ref
Master Chief was a Gestalt solider/mechanichis exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.So Master Chief was a multi classed Mechanic/Soldier?
IDK, he doesn't seem too good with tech, it's Cortana that's good with tech. A dip into Mechanic seems more likely.
I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.
In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.
NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?
NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.
Yes, INT still gives skill points. Yes, humans still get an extra one.
I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.
In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.
NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?
NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.
I disagree with that assessment. I think soldiers and technomancers will be like fighters and wizards in that they both get the low end of the skill points. Remember, technomancers are spending time studying their spells whereas mystics are the more instinctive/intuition/faith-based casters that don't need to consult their books (i.e. intelligence vs. wisdom casters). We already know the mystic's skill points per level, but I think technomancers will get 4 skill points per level, but their key ability will be INT, so they won't get hit as hard as the soldier in the skill department since they are free to focus on that ability score more. Also, I think the solarion will probably also be 4 per level to balance that they are focusing on more fightery-mystic abilities. Mechanic might be 6 or 4, but I think they definitely are not 8.
As for Culture, it is the new version of the Knowledge Local skill, which in all my games comes up quite often.
Incidentally, what do you mean when you state "NB"? I don't know what you are referring to. All I can think of is the droid character, NB, from the anime series, "Tenchi Muyo GXP".
Maybe it stands for "nota bene"?
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
Developer, Starfinder Team
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NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.
Nope. Anyone can, of course, but we have no such assumption about most characters. And, of course, you haven't seen all the themes.
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.
While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
I propose SkP. Then we can also pronounce it as 'skips'.
And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.
Me, too.
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.Yes, I said 4 was the low band. My guess is soldiers and solarians are on 4, envoys and operatives are on 8, and everyone else is on 6.
And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.
I would be extremely surprised if an INT-primary spellcaster (which Technomancer is) turned out to have 6+INT skill points.
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I propose SkP. Then we can also pronounce it as 'skips'.While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
And then Stamina Points could be StP or "Stamps."
That looks more like "Steps" to me.
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
Even in the grim darkness of the future, fighters can't into skill points.
Please stop right there and don't put little bag creatures in the whole mix
So what's everyone expecting from the last v3 classes? I know for me, I'm thinking:
Technomancer 3/4 BAB. Strong will. Maybe reflex?
Solarion. Full BAB. All 3 saves strong, like a monk.
Mechanic. 3/4 BAB. Strong fort and/or reflex (nor will -everyone has will.)
Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.
Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...
HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.
As far as I know, pictures from Paizocon showed neither HP nor SP are rolled, they're flat numbers with a modifier.
Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.
Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...
HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.
Actually, it seems – if you check out the slide of the operative class page spread – that you gain a SP + Con per level, but HP per Level with no Con bonus. Both HP and SP per level seem to be flat numbers determined by class.
Actually, it seems – if you check out the slide of the operative class page spread – that you gain a SP + Con per level, but HP per Level with no Con bonus. Both HP and SP per level seem to be flat numbers determined by class.Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.
Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...
HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.
HP is determined by class and race, not just class.
Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.
Other races are yet unknown.
I was under the impression that dwarves had 8.
This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.
Other races are yet unknown.
My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.
Thats really not much swing there... by the time you can really notice a difference in HP between the lowest and highest character it seems like the damage being thrown around would make that irrelevant anyways.My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.
Other races are yet unknown.
The difference between 4 and 6 is fairly close to the difference between d8 and d12.
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I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.
I think the majority of your hit points are coming from class for pcs, or from role for npcs/monsters. It seems like the 2/4/6/8 are just bonuses on top.
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Define majority? I thought the classes were about the same, 4 and 6 are what we've seen, right? so you can have a max of 6 HP at level 1? A 2D4+2 magic missile is a serious concern to that. or just a good roll on a D6 weapon.I think the majority of your hit points are coming from class for pcs, or from role for npcs/monsters. It seems like the 2/4/6/8 are just bonuses on top.I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.
Well even if we assume that what we've seen of HP is the max, then you can have a max of 12 HP at level 1 (6 from race, 6 from class) which would mean that at worst a magic missile could bring you to 0 HP. Although I'm sure that magic missile is only 1d4+something damage per bolt and it's been stated that you can only use 1 missile per target. Plus the players have an extra stamina pool which is roughly equivalent to HP so you essentially have about 24 points of damage you can take at level 1 (just a rough estimate, don't quote me). Overall I find it very unlikely you'll be one-shot in a balanced level 1 encounter.
Species with only 2 HP still get the same Stamina as other members of the same class, though.