[3PP] Third-Party Products Wishlist for Starfinder

[Ambrosia Slaad]

We know Paizo has announced they are working with 3PPs for Starfinder. So far:

• Encounter Table Publishing (Aethera Campaign Setting) has announced they are in early discussions with Paizo's Starfinder development team. I imagine more info will be forethcoming as it develops. (I know developers Robert Brookes and Isabelle Lee already freelance for Paizo.)
  
• d20pfsrd.com Publishing has announced its Starjammer project (itself formerly known as Starfinder) will be tentatively released around Gen Con 2016. Because of the project's unique development history, it should be 100% compatible with Paizo's Starfinder.
  
• LPJr has announced Starfinder support for its Polymecha line and future 2017 products.
  
• Legendary Games hasn't made any announcements (that I could find), but with them already working on Legendary Planet products, and previously on Metal Gods products, it seems inevitable they'll also be on board. And most of their team has freelanced/developed for Paizo before.

What other existing 3PP products would you like to see newly updated to Starfinder? What all new 3PP products would you like to see for it?

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Personally, I'd love to see Jon Brazer Enterprises (who did the fantastic BoHR:Advanced Androids and Little Red Goblin Games (of Halfbreeds & Hybrids renown) do something similar, maybe a Book of Galactic Races and Racial Guide: Interstellar, respectively?

I'd also love to see a sequel to the excellent Call to Arms: Fantastic Technology from Garrett Guillotte and Fat Goblin Games.

[Giorgo]

FFGs Dragonstar would make for a great Starfinder Campaign setting, such a great concept that released at a very bad time (at the tail end of the D&D 3.0 to 3.5 rules transition), and full of much potential.

[Malwing]

Spacefinder is running fairly smoothly for me right now so I guess I want more of the same.

If Anachronistic Adventures doesn't work well with Starfinder then I'd need one of those assuming that Paizo doesn't go the d20 Modern route of class design. Mainly because it has the 'badass normals' that I need for a proper space fantasy campaign.

Fat Goblin Games already needs more Fantastic Technology and again, if things work differently then we need some of that. Particualarly because it made more melee technology a thing.

I wrote a bad review for the Cyborg from Legendary games but it's like a few tweaks from being a mandatory product. If there's no Cyborg class in Starfinder I need one of those. Legendary Planet material can probably make the shift.

A sequel to Neoexodus stuff would be nice but what I want would depend on what technomancy looks like in Starfinder. Would want some fluff from there but the fate of the Machinesmith, Fleshwraith and Host weigh on my mind.

There's a running theme that a lot of what I would want is dependant on whats in Starfinder already. Its hard to answer unless I know at least what the new classes names are, the category of items being used, and the prominence of magic/psychics.

I've already been adapting Hypercorp 2099 fluff to my own space campaign and that's going pretty seamlessly. It also fits in to explain a lot of things and the players love the Hypernet and Hypercorporations.

As for things that aren't out yet, Paizo just threw a monkey wrench into everyone's cereal. I hope that they'll get an idea of what the compatibility will look like beforehand so we don't have to wait over a year for products that were going to come out soon.

Aethera obviously. I signed up for it, it has good art and a setting that I'm going to attach onto my own. In fact, in terms of fluff, the settings don't have to extend beyond a solar system because really its possible for different fluff books can fit together to take place in the same galaxy.

Dreamscarred press had a Technology Guide enhancement that will probably be delayed until they get how technological items work in Starfinder. I doubt that Paizo will step on Psionic's toes so I imagine that it will be reworked as a full on psionics attachment to Starfinder along with a transition guide if it's needed.

Tripod Machine is working on something that has had some huge delays that may sadly get delayed again.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Personally, I'd love to see Jon Brazer Enterprises (who did the fantastic BoHR:Advanced Androids ... maybe a Book of Galactic Races

We are seriously considering supporting. Even if we don't directly, I plan on sending an adventure I am currently writing for Traveller to Rob as a sample of my writing and ask to be considered for writing an adventure path adventure.

[Malwing]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Personally, I'd love to see Jon Brazer Enterprises (who did the fantastic BoHR:Advanced Androids ... maybe a Book of Galactic Races

We are seriously considering supporting. Even if we don't directly, I plan on sending an adventure I am currently writing for Traveller to Rob as a sample of my writing and ask to be considered for writing an adventure path adventure.

Can't see why not. I think there are already a few BOHR races that can be compiled together along with some additions to make a 'Book of Galactic Races' especially if races work the same way.

[LMPjr007]

Malwing wrote:

A sequel to Neoexodus stuff would be nice but what I want would depend on what technomancy looks like in Starfinder. Would want some fluff from there but the fate of the Machinesmith, Fleshwraith and Host weigh on my mind.

I can say this much since NeoExodus has been science fantasy from the beginning, this is a GREAT idea. I expect, at a minimum, we would do a SMALL (32 to 64) page book giving you a futurist view of NeoExodus build off the Starfinder's OGL game mechanics. BUT, before that happens there is a VERY good chance that we will be doing a sequel to the Chronicle of the Gatekeeps campaign serial for Starfinder. But we have to wait and hear back from a few emails that were sent out before ANYTHING is set in stone. And as always, thanks for the support.

[GM Rednal]

I'm hesitant to make any kind of 3PP wishlist for Starfinder because I don't yet know what's going to be in the main book. XD I don't want to encourage making certain kinds of equipment, or certain class concepts, or whatever, just to find out that it's already being done.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

GM Rednal wrote:

I don't want to encourage making certain kinds of equipment, or certain class concepts, or whatever, just to find out that it's already being done.

If it gets made in the core book, then no worries. If it is not, then the suggestions help.

[diphycue]

DRAGONSTAR! I second that motion! Get on it FFG or let someone else do it! Great setting, just needs work to make it Pathfinder compatible...I've been working on it myself, but I'd love the official creators to make something.

[GM Rednal]

Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

If it gets made in the core book, then no worries. If it is not, then the suggestions help.

Well, you know better than I. XD Let's see...

>Magitech is good. Not just in the sense of "characters who use batteries to power magic swords", but in the sense of characters who can genuinely interact with both. One of the worries of science fantasy is characters who are only capable of interacting with technology or magic, so they just twiddle their thumbs any time the other comes up. Ideally, characters in a universe where both are strongly present will have some way of interacting with them, and not be sent to the sidelines too frequently.

>One of the key things about technology is that it's supposed to be reliable. Whether in fluff or mechanics, I hope the setting's technology will display this and feel mostly stable when it's being used. For game balance reasons, that usually means technology is less powerful than magic, but can be used more frequently.
>>If you want it to be stronger and less reliable, "experimental" is a good word to use. For example, a character with ties to an organization that supplies them with equipment for testing, and in return also supplies them with other gear they may find useful. (Crafting? Improved versions of earlier-level gear that's more reliable? Something else?)

>Characters would probably have more modern sensibilities towards arcane things. There would be less mystery about magic, and probably more of a formalized process. This could be a good background for new classes.

[Luthorne]

For me, I think the need will depend a lot on what is a core part of Starfinder, and how much adaptation is needed. For example, I think that Interjection Games' ethermagic thematically works very well for such a setting, but will it need adjustment to work, or can it be imported as-is? Similar questions exist for Akashic Mysteries, Grimoire of Lost Souls, and Spheres of Power. If they need adjusting, then a conversion guide that allows for such conversions might be appreciated...if not, perhaps some expansions creating new forms of ethermagic, new veils, new spirits, and new magic talents that are well-adapted for whatever systems and challenges Starfinder might offer. For example, I foresee that certain things that are now rather difficult - such as surviving in space - will be considerably cheaper and also offered at lower levels.

Similarly, another need that I foresee will probably be various forms of equipment, but without knowing what will and won't be present from the beginning makes it a bit challenging. That said, I look forward to eventual offerings of magitech, advanced technology, and new magic items adapted for the setting that offer things not offered in the original book. I just don't know what that will be.

Then, of course, there's the possibility of new classes that fit better within the Starfinder dynamic than within the Pathfinder dynamic, or evolutions of classes to fit. But the fact of the matter is, we don't know what classes will be in Starfinder and what gaps will exist. Those gaps will almost certainly exist, but whether existing classes can just fit neatly into those gaps or whether completely new classes will be more appropriate, we'll have to see.

Finally, of course, more expansions on existing races in Starfinder, as well as new races may prove desired...we'll have to see.

So, yeah, overall, I guess I don't know what I want yet, I have some ideas as to what I may end up wanting, but I don't know for sure. Not yet.

[MikeMyler]

Malwing wrote:

I've already been adapting Hypercorp 2099 fluff to my own space campaign and that's going pretty seamlessly. It also fits in to explain a lot of things and the players love the Hypernet and Hypercorporations.

Woo! Reading that has been good fun. :D

We've tossed some pots onto the stove to support Space-Pathfinder (and hopefully making them totally compatible with Starfinder) and as they near boil I'll make sure to keep folks apprised. Just getting the fires stoked now though so it'll be a bit. :)

[Kodyax]

Add my vote for some starfinder stuff for NeoExodus. I know LPjr will be doing some excellent work. Honestly everyone looks like they are jumping on board. I may have to see what I want/need to do for the perpetual project that I have been working on of new races that combine human and 2 other animals to make a lot of new options.

[Air0r]

Dreamscarred Press's Psionics, Akashic Mysteries, and Path of War for Starfinder would be nice. However I feel that Psionics as is would not fit very well in a modern or futuristic setting, so they would have to heavily reflavor it.

[Malwing]

Air0r wrote:

Dreamscarred Press's Psionics, Akashic Mysteries, and Path of War for Starfinder would be nice. However I feel that Psionics as is would not fit very well in a modern or futuristic setting, so they would have to heavily reflavor it.

That is the first time I've ever see that phrase. I see the exact opposite all the time with some people rejecting Psionics in Pathfinder because it feels 'too scifi' and it got to the point where Ultimate Psionics has altenate rules and refluffing it to make it feel more magical in a setting. Right now I'm running a space Pathfinder campaign and not changing anything for them to fit in. In fact right now there's a psionic technology guide expansion being developed.

So I have to ask, because I'm seriously curious as to what the answer could possibly be; Why would Psionics not fit in as is in a futuristic setting?

[Michael Monn]

I plan on making Aethera a neighboring system but I will wait to see what sort of collaboration they have planned.

[Air0r]

Malwing wrote:

Air0r wrote:

Dreamscarred Press's Psionics, Akashic Mysteries, and Path of War for Starfinder would be nice. However I feel that Psionics as is would not fit very well in a modern or futuristic setting, so they would have to heavily reflavor it.

That is the first time I've ever see that phrase. I see the exact opposite all the time with some people rejecting Psionics in Pathfinder because it feels 'too scifi' and it got to the point where Ultimate Psionics has altenate rules and refluffing it to make it feel more magical in a setting. Right now I'm running a space Pathfinder campaign and not changing anything for them to fit in. In fact right now there's a psionic technology guide expansion being developed.

So I have to ask, because I'm seriously curious as to what the answer could possibly be; Why would Psionics not fit in as is in a futuristic setting?

Maybe I grew up playing too many video games, but to me, psionics mechanically comes across as what magic should be doing. it is intuitive and makes sense. Flavor-wise, I find that everything is named a way a wizard would name things. In fact, in my home games i do everything in my power to literally use psionics as the default magic.

I have never been able to view psionics in any setting outside of what it has been so far primarily because I cannot imagine a wizard or sorcerer of capability existing in a modern or post-modern world without literally everything being different.

To expand what I mean: With science progressing and old alchemy becoming chemistry you start to really dig into the HOW things work. With psionics (magic to me) you know that all those rules can be bent and broken, but it is still worth something to the people who can't do that. So lets look at some of the things we use every day to really bring my point home:
Refrigerators: or the psion can just enchant a nice looking box to do the same thing.
ovens: or the psion can just enchant a nice looking box to do the same thing.
washing machine and dryer: or the psion can just enchant a nice looking box (two if he wants to charge you extra) to do the same thing.
Cars: a Nomad can save you a lot of money and just take you there himself or can enchant something so you move faster (though honestly making permanent teleportation pads and charging people to use them and/or selling special passes for those who need to use it regularly)
I could go on, but lets look instead at another angle: magitech (one of the few cases where i can see both being around at the same time).
Batteries that can be refilled by psionics (magic to me) (kineticists could do this one for a fee)
Guns a bullet guidance ability is always nice (we have a few powers that can do this)
Railgun: psionics could provide the massive power necessary to shoot one of these guys. not sure how much mana (Power Points, whatever) equals a power plant though, so that could take some math...
Power Plants: this one kind of doesn't need explaining

Side effect to everything above? probably a lot less pollution i guess.
WoD has mages in a modern setting, but they also have a backlash system for trying to do anything around other people. Cthulhutech has mages in a futuristic setting, but magic is more ritual styled and takes a long time to cast even just one spell while parapsychics exist and they are... well, slightly unhinged so that is... a thing.

It could work, I just have some issues seeing it.

[Malwing]

In a straight hard science fiction situation Psionics is basically magic but it's more of a staple of scifi pseudopowers than straight magic.

[Luthorne]

Malwing wrote:

In a straight hard science fiction situation Psionics is basically magic but it's more of a staple of scifi pseudopowers than straight magic.

Really? I've never viewed 3.5 and Dreamscarred Press' psionics as being much at all like the psionics I've read in actual science fiction, or even psionics in fantasy novels that featured it in addition to magic; honestly, I think Spheres of Power does a much better job there with the right spheres, as does the ESP rules from Anachronistic Adventures. I've always viewed it simply as another form of magic that existed back in 3.5, along with gygaxian, incarnum, invocation (dragonfire adept/warlock), and pact magic...don't include truenaming since it was broken, or shadow magic because it wasn't really different enough. Then again, I've never really understood people who claimed it was 'too science fiction-y' either...

[Lilith]

Maps.

Adventures and encounters that take advantage of elevation/zero-G/void.

[Malwing]

Luthorne wrote:

Malwing wrote:

In a straight hard science fiction situation Psionics is basically magic but it's more of a staple of scifi pseudopowers than straight magic.

Really? I've never viewed 3.5 and Dreamscarred Press' psionics as being much at all like the psionics I've read in actual science fiction, or even psionics in fantasy novels that featured it in addition to magic; honestly, I think Spheres of Power does a much better job there with the right spheres, as does the ESP rules from Anachronistic Adventures. I've always viewed it simply as another form of magic that existed back in 3.5, along with gygaxian, incarnum, invocation (dragonfire adept/warlock), and pact magic...don't include truenaming since it was broken, or shadow magic because it wasn't really different enough. Then again, I've never really understood people who claimed it was 'too science fiction-y' either...

It kind of goes the other way around too where ESP in science fiction context can be seen as just straight magic for as well as it's explained. The theory behind ESP and Wizardry is sometimes the same. Then there's this argument

[Luthorne]

Malwing wrote:

Luthorne wrote:

Malwing wrote:

In a straight hard science fiction situation Psionics is basically magic but it's more of a staple of scifi pseudopowers than straight magic.

Really? I've never viewed 3.5 and Dreamscarred Press' psionics as being much at all like the psionics I've read in actual science fiction, or even psionics in fantasy novels that featured it in addition to magic; honestly, I think Spheres of Power does a much better job there with the right spheres, as does the ESP rules from Anachronistic Adventures. I've always viewed it simply as another form of magic that existed back in 3.5, along with gygaxian, incarnum, invocation (dragonfire adept/warlock), and pact magic...don't include truenaming since it was broken, or shadow magic because it wasn't really different enough. Then again, I've never really understood people who claimed it was 'too science fiction-y' either...

It kind of goes the other way around too where ESP in science fiction context can be seen as just straight magic for as well as it's explained. The theory behind ESP and Wizardry is sometimes the same. Then there's this argument

Well, the thing is that there's generally two kinds of psychic powers is science fiction, though they can be related.

In one kind, magic was actually just misunderstood psychic powers where the practitioners used all kinds of unnecessary things to convince themselves it was necessary to use their powers or because they thought their powers were coming from spirits or gods or devils or angels instead of themselves, and modern day people have since taken a more scientific approach to understanding those abilities and have grown to understand its limits - though not always its operation - and figured out various ways to apply it scientifically. In short, it's the same relationship chemistry holds with alchemy, the same principles were being used but one party didn't understand anything and had all kinds of wacky ideas they used to support esoteric philosophies or religious principles.

In the other one, psychic powers are usually something that arose recently because humans are always evolving and thus evolving the powers of the mind was only a matter of time because some people think evolution works like a technology tree in a strategy game and humans are more evolved than everything else. This is sometimes tied into the first one, where some rare humans had psychic powers in the past and got confused, but usually in this case it was weaker and harder to use and sometimes psychoactive substances or extreme mental states were necessary whereas nowadays certain people - or sometimes everyone - can now use some degree of various psychic abilities, though aptitude usually varies. Sometimes rather than stemming from evolutionary advancement, though, genetic manipulation, aliens, or even cybernetic or pharmaceutical advancement allow such things.

Of course, there are some other variants, but those are the main two you generally see presented in science fiction.

But yes, psionics are basically magic in most science fiction settings, but they can also exist in various fantasy settings as a different power than magic, which is probably more applicable to D&D and other fantasy settings. Lawrence Watt-Evans in his Ethshar books, for example, has witches and to some extent warlocks as being equivalent to psychic abilities, while wizards use magic most similar to traditional D&D magic, Mercedes Lackey differentiated between normal magic-users and the Gifted in her Valdemar books and between elemental magic-users and the Talented in her Elemental Masters books, and in David Weber's War God series, the magi have psychic powers, while wizards use regular magic. Well, that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others.

In short, while ESP is indeed magic, it's usually a particular style or kind of magic, and I've never really viewed 3.5's or Dreamscarred Press' versions to really feel like that style. Note that this isn't a bad thing, it's not meant to be an insult to their system, I just don't think it feels very science fiction-y and I've never really understood why people claim it does and doesn't fit into a fantasy setting, especially considering the huge array of possible fantasy settings and the countless different ways magic has been described.

[JoelF847]

Since the core book will have setting information, does that mean that the OGL for SF will allow use of setting IP? For instance, if the time gap isn't part of the OGL, that would preclude publishers from writing adventures that relate to searching for missing records from worlds where the gap was a bit shorter.

[GM Rednal]

I suspect they're going to go half-and-half, allowing the rules and classes and such to be OGL, but not the setting information.

[Jason Nelson]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

We know Paizo has announced they are working with 3PPs for Starfinder. So far:

• Encounter Table Publishing (Aethera Campaign Setting) has announced they are in early discussions with Paizo's Starfinder development team. I imagine more info will be forethcoming as it develops. (I know developers Robert Brookes and Isabelle Lee already freelance for Paizo.)
  
• d20pfsrd.com Publishing has announced its Starjammer project (itself formerly known as Starfinder) will be tentatively released around Gen Con 2016. Because of the project's unique development history, it should be 100% compatible with Paizo's Starfinder.
  
• LPJr has announced Starfinder support for its Polymecha line and future 2017 products.
  
• Legendary Games hasn't made any announcements (that I could find), but with them already working on Legendary Planet products, and previously on Metal Gods products, it seems inevitable they'll also be on board. And most of their team has freelanced/developed for Paizo before.

What other existing 3PP products would you like to see newly updated to Starfinder? What all new 3PP products would you like to see for it?

Legendary Games has likewise been in conversation with Paizo central at PaizoCon and afterwards about connections between the Legendary Planet AP and the forthcoming Legendary Worlds campaign setting. Thematically, our setting is a bit more on the fantasy side, much more Barsoom than Coruscant, maybe even a little shy of Tatooine. The focus is on the planets themselves and ancient alien civilizations, rather than flying your ship here and there.

Even as a setting where interstellar travel is by gateway rather than spaceship, however, Legendary Worlds can easily fit into the overall Starfinder milieu as either an area beyond the reach of the first wave of FTL exploration, or a generation or two before the secrets of FTL are discovered or revealed.

Whether Legendary Planet and Legendary Worlds are products that are licensed as both Pathfinder and Starfinder or are converted, we'll have to wait and see which option the system best supports.

TL;DR - We already have plans in the works for a number of products and projects related to Starfinder. You will have no shortage of material to make your Starfinder game Legendary!

[LMPjr007]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

LPJr has announced Starfinder support for its Polymecha line and future 2017 products.

Legendary Games hasn't made any announcements (that I could

Not just mentioning.... You might want to see what other interesting things are going on at Starfinder Facebook page. Just saying...

[Toxicsyn]

Templates for items (weapons, armor, cyberware, universal items, etc). Kinda like what d20 Future (Future Tech) did for their gadget system (modifying a item with benefits or flaws). But also stuff like Borderlands 2's Weapon manufacturers. Each manufacturer had a distinctive "gimmick" which defines them. The weapon of choice for most Shadowrunners is the Ares Predator, etc. Also probably information about the manufacturer and adventure hooks associated with them.