Newer GM here, wondering how others handle situations when your players decide to do something completely off the rails which seems destined for spectacular failure from the start.
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My situation:
Running a Kobold campaign where the group is currently hunting down/capturing various monsters for their dragon's new dungeon. After making a deal with a few mimics, the group struggled to decide what to go after next before someone brought up the idea that they wanted to go kill some Gnolls. The group had previously fought Gnolls while ambushing a travelling merchant and again while stealing some Pugwampi slaves - but had never ventured too far into Gnoll territory.
The problem here is that they never had any other plan more than "charge into enemy territory and kill stuff." They made a couple knowledge checks to learn about Gnolls in general and tried to shift the burden of planning onto other group members for a while before just going with walking straight into the tall grass and seeming to think they can easily exterminate a local race. Of course, I know that some of the competing Gnoll packleaders are out of the party's league (being the story reason why nearby city Paladins haven't already wiped them out). So I tried to drop a few hints about such during their Knowledge checks and made a quick plan to have waves of increasingly strong Gnolls in order to drive them off.
At first it seems to work okay, as the party kills half a dozen weaker Gnolls before realizing that they're starting to have difficulty. But over the next half a dozen Gnoll deaths, the party starts a partial retreat before turning around and charging right back in only to get completely overpowered (may have pulled the last hit to put them at dying instead of full dead). As such, I decided to have the Gnolls capture the unconscious group instead of simply killing them (intending to use them as slaves & providing opportunities for escape, bartering freedom, or rescue from the players who missed the session and say they wouldn't have participated in a suicide charge for no good reason).
Of course, I worry slightly that the group's overconfidence may have been a result of my pulling blows/throwing easier encounters at them previously (still getting a feel for designing combat difficulty). However, as a group of lvl4 Kobolds, I would have thought they'd realize that they can't just take on a full race within the region on their own...
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So is there anything that I could have handled about this situation better? What other things have come up in your own games and how has the GM handled them?
You noted that it's possible that your players are (knowingly or not) abusing the safety net that you have provided them. It begs the question, do they want the safety net? It sounds like a light-hearted campaign but it's possible that they may still want their actions to have consequences. The consequence may not even have to be death, it could just be whatever makes sense in the given situation, such as the gnoll slavers taking the kobolds captive as slaves. I think it may be something to ask your players about.
You asked if there was any way you could have handled the situation better. Honestly, a lot of it comes down to preferences that can differ from table to table. It's why Session 0 is a very useful component for running a game.
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Honestly, capturing them and having the Gnolls use them as slaves is the best thing you could have done in that situation. They were captured by slavers, who saw the opportunity to get some slaves. why kill them off?
It enables more roleplaying and forces them to actually plan a proper escape. Every time they fail to escape, punish them. After a number of escapes, the Gnolls may consider them too much hassle to keep around.
As a GM DO NOT be afraid to punish the players for their own brashness.
If they decided to go up against enemies that offered no quarter, then go for the TPK. If the enemies have other plans for unconscious members, then go with that.
Good luck with the rest of the game. Just remember- their actions carry consequences. It's only up to you, as the GM, to push the course of the game.
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Kobolds, lol
charging into enemy territory and getting soundly beaten? sounds about par for the course, lol.
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But seriously, I think you did fine.
You hinted that this was a task beyond their current powers. THey ignored this. You slowly upped the level of the battle. They ignored this. You gave them opportunity to retreat. THey ignored this. You wiped them out. This is fine. I mean, normally I'd actually say that you went too easy on them, but A) they're playing Kobolds so this kind of thing is to be expected and B) it sounds like they didn't realize combat could turn against them so badly when unplanned, due to you pulling punches. I think capturing them works pretty well AND will send the message that they need to not be COMPLETELY stupid.
My go-to, btw, is to ask my players to make a WIS check. If they succeed, I explain to them why this might not be such a great idea. If they fail, they know that I asked them to make a WIS check and maybe they've missed something vital and should re-examine their plans because the DM is grinning evilly. It works quite well.
((Big caveat: All this only applies to situations where the players do stupid things of their own will. If they do something stupid because you've set them up to do something stupid, that is a GM problem and should be solved without punishing the party too much))
TPK cures a lot of that. A game ending at 7pm can be educational.
Eesh guys.
Yeah, take the training wheels off and do what you, the DM, would think the logical sequences of events develop into. Level 4 TPK is not the worst setback that can happen to a campaign.
Heck, at this stage, you could consider their defeat as the completion of a qualifying run for the group and what they as Players (meta-game time!) will do in your Magical Realm and how you can adapt to them competitively and cooperatively to ensure that you -the poor schmuck of creation, and they -children cut free of supervision and fed caffeine, can both have fun.
Dice lay where they fall and I interpret the result as fairly yet colorfully as I can to Players. Some are close to tears at the death of their PC, others can't wait to roll a character and roleplay a different concept, and the ones that concern me do it just to test the limits of the party, the DM, and the system.
That's when I transition from DM to asMoDeus.
... bad things happen to them.
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My advice to you when starting a new group is to keep a balance. Don't be wishy washy, but also don't be too tough.
With this group, I suggest you find a way to give them one last warning about how dangerous the gnolls are.
Here is one idea:
Insert an old kobold hunter with them in the cages when they are captured. Have him tell the young whipper snappers how foolish they are for going so deep in gnoll country. Let him have an escape plan that only works with youngins that are too stupid to know what they are doing...and the PCs should do nicely. Make it their only chance because the gnolls have some feast day coming up and they are all destined for the cookpot.
Luckily, kobolds are fecund little bastards, so even in the event of a TPK, the former party should be easily replaceable.
My group usually plays it pretty sharp, but the last session they just turned off the light bulb. They were fighting a group of Blast Shadows, which explode for 5d6 points of fire damage upon being slain. After the second one exploded, that left 3 more and instead of retreating they just kept fighting them. No one died, but they were brought down so low in hitpoints that Cleric couldn't bring them back up to a decent amount so they had to leave the lich's lair, rest up a day, then come back.
Sometimes, I will give characters with exceptionally high Intelligence or Wisdom scores a bit of warning if they are about to do something monumentally stupid and self-destructive.
It's easy to imagine being super strong, super agile, super healthy, or super likable. Not so much to fathom the amount of mental prowess that comes with a 20 Int.
Another approach is to possibly become more descriptive about the dangers they face. If the tone of the entire campaign, even combat is happy-go-lucky, they will be more prone to foolish behavior.
A campaign I played in under 3.0 had a feat anyone could take called 'Clue'. I think it allowed the player to step out of game to 'buy a clue' from the GM. The particulars are 15 yrs ago, but I remember people groaning that no one had it (character creation only). The whole 'buy' mechanism was 'fetch me a beer' or such, except his wife got to barter it out post game.
Sometimes, I will give characters with exceptionally high Intelligence or Wisdom scores a bit of warning if they are about to do something monumentally stupid and self-destructive.
It's easy to imagine being super strong, super agile, super healthy, or super likable. Not so much to fathom the amount of mental prowess that comes with a 20 Int.
This. I sometimes ask for an INT or WIS check for "inspiration".
A campaign I played in under 3.0 had a feat anyone could take called 'Clue'. I think it allowed the player to step out of game to 'buy a clue' from the GM. The particulars are 15 yrs ago, but I remember people groaning that no one had it (character creation only). The whole 'buy' mechanism was 'fetch me a beer' or such, except his wife got to barter it out post game.
There are rules for something similar under Hero Points, though I've only had one character use it, once, getting a hint that ended up saving the lives of 2 others.
Kobolds captured by gnoll slavers despite all mechanical evidence in the metagame to indicate "Bad Idea" (so to speak)?
Totally fine, dude. Let 'em kobold their way out. Well done.
A way you could have done things better: You probably shouldn't have let them kill 12 Gnolls, because anything you can kill 12 of in one battle is a weak enemy.
Now I don't agree in TPKs but certainly don't put on the "kiddy gloves" when you've pre-warned your players (or "pull back" on a death blow).
Remember as a GM you can talk directly to your players and let them know what they're doing is reckless. Tell them bluntly some of them will probably die if they continue.
How I would have run the gnolls, is maybe let them fight three really tough ones (CR+2ish). Then while they're gasping midway through the fight, let them roll perception and see an army of 20 gnolls in full armour running towards them. Have them realise that the gnolls they're fighting are probably farmers/ordinary folk...
A player makes a stupid decision? They pay the price.
A player gets critted into death, or Nat-1 on a save? GM Mercy is allowed.
Mercy for dealing with the [bad] luck of the dice is an OK safety net.
Mercy for poor choices just invites more poor choices.
/cevah