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Playing characters with disabilities is a very strong roleplaying choice. It sets up many possible motivations and conflicts that would do well to shape the character's future, so I can see why it has appeal.
That being said, PFS might not be the best outlet for such a character (unless they were the oracle you've already disbarred.) PFS depends on characters all sharing some basic competencies like speaking Common for example. Because of the organized play system requiring some necessary degree of time management, it might not be helpful to you (or those you are grouped with) if the progress of a given scenario needs to be slowed down to accommodate your character. This would be especially important during timed game slots like those at a convention, or during a special event your local play spaces might have.
Perhaps more directly hazardous to your potential deaf character would be traps or events dependent on sound. For instance, if your character is deaf, they might not hear the telltale click of a door locking behind them, or the eerie sound that provides a clue to everyone but your character. More common would be the bard's performance abilities which you would never be able to benefit from if they were sound based. (And most are.) it is certainly possible to use a language slot to learn to read lips, but that will only be useful when someone within your line of sight is speaking with their mouth visible.
I don't actually know if a deaf character is rules-legal or not, but even supposing it is, it might be better saved for a home game. That way the GM can anticipate how best to build encounters incorporating your character's specific existence, and you can take all the time you need to get the roleplay done right.
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In addition to the on-point commentary from Alayern above, there is also the 'out of the box' consideration of 'don't be a jerk'.
If you have fellow players at your table who are hearing impaired, it could be viewed as an insult.
Explore, Report, Cooperate
Equally as important as
Courtesy, Dignity, Respect
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Lyric is deaf. I loved the idea of a music-loving paladin of Shelyn who 'hears' her music through touch. She is an oracle-paladin cross, and she works very well. She is my favorite character, and at times her deafness has been a great advantage, as well as being an interesting aspect of Lyric's character.
All you need is one oracle level, and oracle can be a great dip for many classes that can be thematic and flavorful. What so you want your character to be? Perhaps we can figure out an oracle dip that will allow you to carry through with your concept.
Hmm
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Cochlear implant user dotting this thread
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I don't see why not, primarily because part of the game is being able to RP a character that the player can connect with. Some have hearing loss, so playing a character that reflects that seems completely reasonable as the alternative wouldn't stand up to Paizo's theme of inclusion (or the rules that reflect that in PFS).
Outside of that, as Wei Ji said, just make sure you're respectful about it.
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Roleplay is fine but no mechanical effect.
Recent thread on disabled characters.
Maybe buy some earplugs? +2 to saves vs. effects which require hearing and -5 hearing-based perception.
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A deafened character cannot hear. He takes a –4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. Characters who remain deafened for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
Being deaf definately has mechanical effects.
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I'm saying it is perfectly fine to say your character is hard of hearing and carries a Ear Trumpet while wearing earplugs but don't go so far as to use the deafened condition or actually call your character deaf when they aren't. I think using the description of being actually deaf when you aren't violates re-skinning rules.
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My little sister was deaf.
So stuff for PFS is usually about 'what is allowed' vs 'what is not allowed'. So basically, there is nothing saying you can play a deaf character, so giving yourself the penalties for being deaf in game automatically (I don't think there are any benefits in game, but I could be wrong) is something you will likely have table variation with.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it, and would allow you to do so within reason, and would even try to work with you on what would be in your line of sight for purposes of lip-reading and seeing visual cues to things that normally I would describe by their sound.
My suggestions for how to do this if this is a character option you want to play:
1. Find the 'deaf' penalties list and carry that with you for the character. Inform the GM of your intention, and see if they would mind if you impose those on yourself. I'd also check with the players, as you taking penalties on Init and Perc (and other stuff?) affects them, too.
2. Look for gear that will help you simulate the penalties. Ear plugs are pretty cheap, I think. They will likely work pretty well for you.
3. Above all else, make sure you are roleplaying this in a respectful manner. There is nothing wrong with roleplaying that you are deaf when you aren't anymore than there is something wrong with roleplaying a different gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or anything else that doesn't exactly match what you are IRL. This is a roleplaying game, you are taking on a persona unlike your own, but that doesn't mean it isn't like someone else nearby or within ear shot (no pun intended). Be respectful of others feelings.
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I hadn't looked up the mechanical effects. Now that someone else shared them, change my answer to 'Id allow you to take those penalties, but wouldn't give you the benefits'.
...So basically, there is nothing saying you can play a deaf character...I don't understand how you went from saying "there is nothing legal that says you can do this" to "I'd allow it."
Basically, there is nothing allowing it means there is no rule in a book or Guide that the player can point back to and show that they are 100% allowed to do it. (EDIT: So if they want to do this, they should expect table variation.)
However, since there is nothing strictly forbidding it (reskinning, maybe?), if someone came to my table and asked if they could just artibrarily give their character a "–4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components", then I wouldn't stop them from doing it, as long as the other players at the table were ok with it.
If they don't care, then the deaf character's player isn't being a jerk (so that rule isn't broken), and if you want to make a scenario harder on yourself, then that's fine with me. If that's how you enjoy your roleplay, then I wouldn't hamper you for it.
Is that reskinning? I dunno. Maybe? That's why I suggested they buy earplugs or something else to help simulate the effect.
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On the one hand, I realize that the poster is being serious, and wishing to explore some aspect in RP that is not common place or covered in the rules.
But I've been on the boards long enough, and in fact in the hobby long enough to know that whatever the OP actual reason for asking, some responders will assume that they are trying to "game the system", to "pull something". And that makes me sad.
Nosig, I agree that is usually the assumption. It also makes me sad.
The powergaming assumption is why there is no sign language in PFS... So, to the O.P. I repeat my question: "What do you want to play?"
Oracle is your PFS-legal gateway to being deaf. We can help you figure out an oracle dip that will allow you to have your deaf character in PFS.
Hmm
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I think Ragoz expressed a solid reason as to why you can't simply decide that your character is deaf, namely that there are mechanical advantages in certain situations to being deaf.
Obviously these are not something likely to come up very often, but when they do you can't ignore their effects due to a flavor RP reason that was chosen without using a valid mechanical option (i.e. An oracle Curse).
That said, I don't believe that the majority of us think that the OP was trying to game the system as nosing seems to suggest. We're simply stating that because you can get a mechanical advantage from it, you cannot simply decide you character is deaf and apply the deaf condition.
If you truly want to be deaf dip a level of Oracle, wear earplugs and apply their effects and RP it as deafness, or even RP it with no mechanical effects whatsoever.
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I think Ragoz expressed a solid reason as to why you can't simply decide that your character is deaf, namely that there are mechanical advantages in certain situations to being deaf.
Obviously these are not something likely to come up very often, but when they do you can't ignore their effects due to a flavor RP reason that was chosen without using a valid mechanical option (i.e. An oracle Curse).
That said, I don't believe that the majority of us think that the OP was trying to game the system as nosing seems to suggest. We're simply stating that because you can get a mechanical advantage from it, you cannot simply decide you character is deaf and apply the deaf condition.
If you truly want to be deaf dip a level of Oracle, wear earplugs and apply their effects and RP it as deafness, or even RP it with no mechanical effects whatsoever.
Essentially this.
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I hadn't looked up the mechanical effects. Now that someone else shared them, change my answer to 'Id allow you to take those penalties, but wouldn't give you the benefits'.
...So basically, there is nothing saying you can play a deaf character...I don't understand how you went from saying "there is nothing legal that says you can do this" to "I'd allow it."Basically, there is nothing allowing it means there is no rule in a book or Guide that the player can point back to and show that they are 100% allowed to do it. (EDIT: So if they want to do this, they should expect table variation.)
However, since there is nothing strictly forbidding it (reskinning, maybe?), if someone came to my table and asked if they could just artibrarily give their character a "–4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components", then I wouldn't stop them from doing it, as long as the other players at the table were ok with it.
If they don't care, then the deaf character's player isn't being a jerk (so that rule isn't broken), and if you want to make a scenario harder on yourself, then that's fine with me. If that's how you enjoy your roleplay, then I wouldn't hamper you for it.
Is that reskinning? I dunno. Maybe? That's why I suggested they buy earplugs or something else to help simulate the effect.
If I have an extremely passive GM that won't disallow it, can I just have Haste always on? As long as the other players don't say no I guess I don't see why not.
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If I have an extremely passive GM that won't disallow it, can I just have Haste always on? As long as the other players don't say no I guess I don't see why not.I hadn't looked up the mechanical effects. Now that someone else shared them, change my answer to 'Id allow you to take those penalties, but wouldn't give you the benefits'.
...So basically, there is nothing saying you can play a deaf character...I don't understand how you went from saying "there is nothing legal that says you can do this" to "I'd allow it."Basically, there is nothing allowing it means there is no rule in a book or Guide that the player can point back to and show that they are 100% allowed to do it. (EDIT: So if they want to do this, they should expect table variation.)
However, since there is nothing strictly forbidding it (reskinning, maybe?), if someone came to my table and asked if they could just artibrarily give their character a "–4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Perception checks based on sound, takes a –4 penalty on opposed Perception checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components", then I wouldn't stop them from doing it, as long as the other players at the table were ok with it.
If they don't care, then the deaf character's player isn't being a jerk (so that rule isn't broken), and if you want to make a scenario harder on yourself, then that's fine with me. If that's how you enjoy your roleplay, then I wouldn't hamper you for it.
Is that reskinning? I dunno. Maybe? That's why I suggested they buy earplugs or something else to help simulate the effect.
1. Im talking about just the penalties, not the benefits.
2. If you don't like what I said, good for you. All of the penalties for deafness are things the player can impose on themselves with or without the GM's permission, at least sort of, anyway.
-4 Init? Delay in combat.
Auto-fail sound-based Perception checks? Don't act on the knowledge that you heard it.
-4 on Perception checks? Same. as above. Or if you get a 20 and you make the check, ask if a 16 would have made it. If the GM will give the answer, then act accordingly.
20% spell failure? Wear armor? Just roll the check anyway and decide not to cast if you 'fail'? I dunno, this one would be weird, but its not an issue at all if you cant cast spells.
All of this could be crossing the Don't be a Jerk line, but that's why I suggested asking the other players.
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The powergaming assumption is why there is no sign language in PFS... So, to the O.P. I repeat my question: "What do you want to play?"
Small exception to this... All Pathfinder Agents are trained in a society hand gesture "language". It's not as complex as a sign language, it isn't even an actual language, but it'll convey tactical and simple information well enough. I think it's in the guide, but I may be recalling something from evergreen fluff.
To the OP: Just play a deaf character. Drop money on a potion of deafness for the GMs who assume you're trying to game the system and just play the character. You don't have to clear the condition between scenarios as far as I recall.
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The powergaming assumption is why there is no sign language in PFS... So, to the O.P. I repeat my question: "What do you want to play?"Small exception to this... All Pathfinder Agents are trained in a society hand gesture "language". It's not as complex as a sign language, it isn't even an actual language, but it'll convey tactical and simple information well enough. I think it's in the guide, but I may be recalling something from evergreen fluff.
To the OP: Just play a deaf character. Drop money on a potion of deafness for the GMs who assume you're trying to game the system and just play the character. You don't have to clear the condition between scenarios as far as I recall.
You will have to clear the condition at the end of the scenario, according to the Guide to Organized Play. So you'd have to buy a potion of deafness at the beginning of every scenario AND pay to have the conditioned removed at the end of every scenario.
I actually like the thunderstone idea. I once saw a player with a gnome who was addicted to Color Spray, and he would regularly hit himself with a wand of it out of combat. I could see a similar motivation here...
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Pretty much what it says on the tin. No oracle curse, just a deaf guy.
RAW, I think the answer is no. It would apply mechanic benefits, so it isn't allowed unless you have a PFS legal rule to modify your character (like the oracle).
That said, you could certainly role play a Deaf character. The GM might go along with it, or you might end up just having a delusional character that just thinks he's deaf. Expect Table variation.
You could also get cursed with deafness and just not remove the curse. Either another player could cast it (with your permission so it isn't PVP), or you should be able to pay for the spell (either as a scroll or spellcasting service).
Beyond that, you could just get some ear plugs and have a really low perception skill....
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Wouldn't need to pay to have deafness removed, as the spell is dismissible and with the potion, the drinker is also the caster. So, just dismiss it at the end of the scenario (or whenever you want...). You would need to buy one each scenario... Or maybe buy a scroll (half the cost) if someone in the party could cast it from that...The powergaming assumption is why there is no sign language in PFS... So, to the O.P. I repeat my question: "What do you want to play?"Small exception to this... All Pathfinder Agents are trained in a society hand gesture "language". It's not as complex as a sign language, it isn't even an actual language, but it'll convey tactical and simple information well enough. I think it's in the guide, but I may be recalling something from evergreen fluff.
To the OP: Just play a deaf character. Drop money on a potion of deafness for the GMs who assume you're trying to game the system and just play the character. You don't have to clear the condition between scenarios as far as I recall.
You will have to clear the condition at the end of the scenario, according to the Guide to Organized Play. So you'd have to buy a potion of deafness at the beginning of every scenario AND pay to have the conditioned removed at the end of every scenario.
I actually like the thunderstone idea. I once saw a player with a gnome who was addicted to Color Spray, and he would regularly hit himself with a wand of it out of combat. I could see a similar motivation here...
The spell is dismissable? Wow, I missed that big (D). I saw the permanent....heck I had a character that always memorized remove blindness/deafness because I had someone in the party that was always blinding people.
Well, as you pointed out in the OP, Deaf IS an Oracle curse. So regardless of good taste or possible insult... Deaf characters ARE a part of the game.
Not sure what the rules in Society would be to RP a curse your class doesn't have... but man, it's such a set back... and there ARE mechanics for it... I would annoyed if there was a real problem with it.
In addition to the on-point commentary from Alayern above, there is also the 'out of the box' consideration of 'don't be a jerk'.If you have fellow players at your table who are hearing impaired, it could be viewed as an insult.
Explore, Report, Cooperate
Equally as important as
Courtesy, Dignity, Respect
I don't see how playing a deaf character would be offensive to the hearing impaired. My best friend is paraplegic, and he was ecstatic when I played a lame cleric. He said it's great when others show that being disabled doesn't make someone useless. As long as you're not being mean about it, and being respectful to the condition.
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I don't see how playing a deaf character would be offensive to the hearing impaired. My best friend is paraplegic, and he was ecstatic when I played a lame cleric. He said it's great when others show that being disabled doesn't make someone useless. As long as you're not being mean about it, and being respectful to the condition.
In addition to the on-point commentary from Alayern above, there is also the 'out of the box' consideration of 'don't be a jerk'.If you have fellow players at your table who are hearing impaired, it could be viewed as an insult.
Explore, Report, Cooperate
Equally as important as
Courtesy, Dignity, Respect
The key words, I think, were "could be viewed". I took that as a call to pay attention to the reactions of your fellow players, not as an injunction against doing something.
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Last I checked Drow Sign Lamguage was legal.
Banned as per the additional resources for Bestiary 1.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: BestiaryAnimal Companions: ankylosaurus, aurochs, brachiosaurus, dire bat, dire rat, dolphin, elasmosaurus, electric eel, elephant/mastodon, frog, goblin dog, hyena, monitor lizard, moray eel, octopus, orca, pteranodon, rhinoceros, roc, squid, stegosaurus, triceratops, and tyrannosaurus; Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 131-133, and imp, pseudodragon, quasit; Feats: none of the feats are legal for play for PCs, animal companions, or familiars unless specifically granted by another legal source; Other: all creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters. All languages found in this book are available for a character to learn with the linguistics skill, except aboleth and drow sign language.
Though I suspect this is more related to the drow being banned from common knowledge, and less about banning non-verbal communication.
Not sure which classes, but I recall telepathy being reasonably easy to acquire if you really want it.
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I don't see how playing a deaf character would be offensive to the hearing impaired. My best friend is paraplegic, and he was ecstatic when I played a lame cleric. He said it's great when others show that being disabled doesn't make someone useless. As long as you're not being mean about it, and being respectful to the condition.
That's your best friend, so they know you'll be respectful.
Disabilities, especially mental disabilities, are often portrayed in RPGs as a more comical element. I agree, disability in no way prevents a person from being useful.
Anyway, for suggestions, I think the already mentioned "ear plugs" from the Advanced players guide are the ideal route for mechanical benefits. Then just role play it as a permanent condition, rather than things you have stuck in your ears. Ear plugs are 3 coppers for a pair, so you can get them at level 1 with starting gear and just never take them out...
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I really don't know what Society's decision on this would be but taking a -4 on all initiative checks, and all the other drawbacks is certainly going to be way worse then the occasional "You suffer no effects to the Command spell as you can't hear the command" is going to be a benefit. I feel like this is way more harmful to the PC then it would be beneficial. That said is it too harmful to allow in Society play because it hampers the PC so much as to be drag on the whole group's ability to meet challenges?
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Lyric's laughably horrible initiative rolls are legendary in the Twin Cities Lodge. I decided not to pour resources into improving Lyric's initiative, because in the end, it just doesn't matter. What's the difference, really, between -4 and zero? She generally goes at the end of the group, and it does not matter at all.
Lyric is a strong contributor to any group she's in. She keeps the group healed and strong, and she's a fantastic face. Her lip reading has even proved helpful in adventures, as has her immunity to sonic attacks. Being able to smite an evil caster while under a silent spell that affects me, and not him? Marvelous...
Yeah, her auditory perception is non-existant. But she can see how her teammates react, and perception is usually earmarked by everyone else in a party. Lyric covers areas of expertise that are often neglected by others.
I really love that being an oracle gave me the freedom to explore deafness in a Pathfinder character. It was really the whole reason I decided to be an oracle in the first place.
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That said is it too harmful to allow in Society play because it hampers the PC so much as to be drag on the whole group's ability to meet challenges?
I don't think intentionally hampering the PC is the issue. I mean, you build a bad character, nothing prevents that.
The issue I see is that the player is attempting to apply non-PFS sanctioned custom rules to a PFS character. Deafness, in Pathfinder, is not a roleplaying choice, but a rules mechanic.
PFS has also banned the Drawbacks aspect of the trait system, so other disabilities have mostly been banned from PFS.
The Oracle's Curse is somewhat different from an actual disability, as part of being cursed also is imparting boons which enable the character to compete equally with the rest of the Pathfinder "Workforce."