can you use attack spells to intimidate?


Rules Questions


what would you need to do? performance? intimidate? what would cause fear to the most enemies?

example: the spell caster is decked out in tribal gear has decapitated heads on his belt and approaches the enemies and starts screaming his chat for his spell gesturing aggressively before unleashing a blast that strikes one of the enemy hurting/killing him/her. would that be enough to scare the people around the target?


I have no idea what you are trying to do.


Can you take the Demoralize and the spellcasting action at the same time? No.


using casting to intimidate the enemy


Nope, It is a standard action to intimidate, and usually a standard action to cast a spell.
Same as a martial can't intimidate when attacking (without other abilities).
You would need to get the spell casting or the intimidate down to a free action.

If it is a home game you could look into creating a feat that allows you to intimidate as a free action after dealing damage with a spell to a target within 30'. Then it's just a matter of persuading the GM to allow it.


While you can't really make an intimidate check at the same time as casting something, depending upon what response you're going for, you might be able to intimidate them through other means than simply an intimidate skill check. For example, if a shaky guy pulls out a gun and points it at you, he may only be 5'1", have a nerd strap on his glasses, and speak with a small, lispy voice, but with the gun there people might be more willing to comply with what he asks. This is completely DM fiat, and could easily backfire.

I have used spells as intimidation factors before, though. One, it helped that I actually had intimidate. Two, I wasn't actually making intimidate checks on the same round.

The first example that comes to my mind is the time I had a guy tied up in a tent. Uh... I won't go into everything that happened, but I never ended up torturing him; just kind of threatened to hit him with an inflict serious. He promised to talk when I stuck it in his face (and rolled pretty well on the check), then actually started talking when I discharged it into myself. The other example that comes to mind is a time I sent a graverobber to the earth plane (I swear it was an accident, magic crits with crit cards can be brutal). GM didn't even call for an intimidate check, the rest of his group just did as I said.

So, basically, pick touch spells where you can utilize the spell as a weapon while holding the charge (and maybe pick up a small bonus on the check depending on GM), OR just use intimidate after you cast the spell.

Liberty's Edge

Like Mortigneous said, DM adjudication, people might do what you say after you vaporize one just because that makes sense based on morale, but for a backfiring example, they might try to kill you harder because you are so dangerous, or out of anger because you hurt their friend (bad guys / antagonists do have friends sometimes).

Blistering Invective is the spell that explicitly allows you to intimidate with magic :)


There are some feats and ways to Intimidate on a critical hit. Spells can critical. So... with some research and investment, yes.

Or get the spell blistering invective.

Silver Crusade

Enforcer feat plus spells that do non-lethal damage, eg frostbite.


supervillan wrote:
Enforcer feat plus spells that do non-lethal damage, eg frostbite.
APG wrote:

Enforcer (Combat)

You are skilled at causing fear in those you brutalize.

Prerequisite: Intimidate 1 rank.

Benefit: Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

Frostbite is spell, not a melee weapon.

Silver Crusade

Ah, good point. I was thinking of the classic magus trick of spellstriking with frostbite.


Imperious Bloodline Sorcerer adds the spell level of damaging spells to intimidate rolls the round after and they have a higher level ability to roll intimidate as an immediate action if they make a save against a spell.


Gisher wrote:
supervillan wrote:
Enforcer feat plus spells that do non-lethal damage, eg frostbite.
APG wrote:

Enforcer (Combat)

You are skilled at causing fear in those you brutalize.

Prerequisite: Intimidate 1 rank.

Benefit: Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

Frostbite is spell, not a melee weapon.

A point to note, Rays and Spell Weapons (eg Spiritual Weapon) count as Weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons, including feats that affect weapons. Such as Weapon Specialization. As per the FAQ.

A melee weapon spell that does non-lethal damage, or cast with Merciful metamagic feat, could work with the Enforcer feat. Though I would discuss it with your DM as opposed to rules lawyering him into accepting it.

There is also the Fearsome metamagic feat, similar to Intimidate.

Though with either of the above you have to damage someone for it to work. There is no Intimidation factor for those watching/seeing it happen.

*edit effect/affect


Blistering invective does fire damage, might ignite foes, and lets you demoralize all foes in range. Fits perfectly for the example given (scream so loud your enemies burn and shake). My favorite character was an inquisitor with ranks in profession sailor. I could cuss like a sailor, with insults so strong they burn the ears.


Ignoring the stuff cited... I think most attack spells are poor for intimidation since they are instantaneous. Intimidation works better when you have something to brandish (ie- sword to their throat, cannon pointed at their group). Otherwise, it is simply the same as you saying "hey, you do realize I am a wizard, right? Y'know, with the pew pews?", which you could have done just as well before shooting.

This is based off an idea I've seen brought up in a super hero work (But applies here)- just because you can shoot lasers from your hand that blow up tanks doesn't stop their brain from subconsciously think "oh look, a finger- is he indicating something? Holding something. Well whatever, it is just a finger". Most people use their hand only for hand stuff, and even wizards usually use it for hand stuff most of the time. So it is hard to form the subconscious idea "that is exceedingly dangerous", even if you know it logically.

Thus, the work advised the heroes to carry guns since people VERY much associate it with danger since guns are only used to either kill or threaten, and as such the subconscious doesn't have any barriers that prevent a proper labeling of the danger.

Now if you have a more persistent spell that hangs a freakin' fireball over everyone's heads... yeah, that is a better argument for using it to intimidate. You aren't using your hand wiggles to threaten, you are using the obviously dangerous mass of energy that you bend to your will (...using hand wiggles)


Performance Feats can be used in normal combat to intimidate with a performance check, and energy spells trigger performance checks.

So with Performing Combatant and Hero's Display, any time you cast any spell or produce any effect that deals energy damage, you get a 30ft intimidate.


BadBird wrote:

Performance Feats can be used in normal combat to intimidate with a performance check, and energy spells trigger performance checks.

So with Performing Combatant and Hero's Display, any time you cast any spell or produce any effect that deals energy damage, you get a 30ft intimidate.

So the full feat chain would go:

Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Hero's Display, Performing Combatant.
This would give you a swift action demoralise to enemies within 30'.

You could even add Masterful Display and say, Savage Display (= +d6 damage).


strayshift wrote:
BadBird wrote:

Performance Feats can be used in normal combat to intimidate with a performance check, and energy spells trigger performance checks.

So with Performing Combatant and Hero's Display, any time you cast any spell or produce any effect that deals energy damage, you get a 30ft intimidate.

So the full feat chain would go:

Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Hero's Display, Performing Combatant.
This would give you a swift action demoralise to enemies within 30'.

You could even add Masterful Display and say, Savage Display (= +d6 damage).

You could, though +1d6 probably isn't worth two feats.

I have a concept for a Gladiator 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4/ EK? character who would use Masterful Display to combine Hero's Display and Dramatic Display. Starting combat with a Draconic bonus energy spell would trigger AoE fear and +2 to attack rolls; then anything from another blasting spell to a charge to iterative attacks keeps reapplying fear and attack bonus.


lemeres wrote:


This is based off an idea I've seen brought up in a super hero work (But applies here)- just because you can shoot lasers from your hand that blow up tanks doesn't stop their brain from subconsciously think "oh look, a finger- is he indicating something? Holding something. Well whatever, it is just a finger". Most people use their hand only for hand stuff, and even wizards usually use it for hand stuff most of the time. So it is hard to form the subconscious idea "that is exceedingly dangerous", even if you know it logically.

Thus, the work advised the heroes to carry guns since people VERY much associate it with danger since guns are only used to either kill or threaten, and as such the subconscious doesn't have any barriers that prevent a proper labeling of the danger.

this strip? or another I need introducing too?


If you mean intimidating outside of combat, then I imagine some GMs could be convinced to make the check slightly easier if you say, cast shocking grasp and hold your hand, lightning arcing between your fingers, up to the guys face, of course there's no rule for it and if your gm doesn't do it for weapons he's not likely to do it for this either. Spells which magically cause fear might work too. Of course you could just hit the guy with dominate/charm person instead and have your new puppet tell you whatever you need to know.


I think after vaporizing one of the enemies a intimidation check can be in order, but not as demoralization attempt. Demoralizing takes a standard action and only affects one target, but if you're trying to convince people to do something for you it could work.
Example: A wizard is trying to convince the enemies to leave him alone, so he shouts "leave, or face the wrath of the mighty warlock Bob!" and then disintegrates one of encroaching baddies. I'd give the wizard an intimidation roll with a plus five for that, and if he succeeds they leave.


zainale wrote:
using casting to intimidate the enemy

No, you use the skill Intimidate.

Using the skill in combat is regulated by a bunch of rules and can't easily be combined with spell casting.

But outside of combat you're more free to describe how you use a skill such as Intimidate. So you might describe how you use Prestidigitation for some menacing sparks to get your threats across.

A lenient DM might give a circumstance bonus if you use a spell which could reasonably be considered especially threatening. But that’s up to the DM.


dragonhunterq wrote:

Nope, It is a standard action to intimidate, and usually a standard action to cast a spell.

Same as a martial can't intimidate when attacking (without other abilities).
You would need to get the spell casting or the intimidate down to a free action.

Mechanically no.

Because blowing up half the goblin tribe with a Fireball is, in no way, intimidating. Maybe you can ask the DM for a circumstance bonus afterwards, if you still need to make an intimidation check.


at what lvl does a wizard go from pasty scrawny that's easily killed to holy shit where did that scary mofo come from, that can destroy us all?

i for one have never played a wizard. but i thought a tribal witch doctor would be cool. i mean in a tribe of orcs there's one caster sort and he/she has to keep all those warriors from slitting his or her throat while he or she sleeps.


zainale wrote:
at what lvl does a wizard go from pasty scrawny that's easily killed to holy s#+& where did that scary mofo come from, that can destroy us all?

At level 1? Okey, sure, you're easily killed. But Sleep and Color Spray are real powerful spells that has the ability to shut down entire combats at low levels. I'd say you get out of being easy to kill at around level 4 or 5. Then you can afford the lower level spell slots to keep Mage armor and other defence buffs up, you can use Invisibility etc.

But without serious investment, a wizard's going to be more frail than a martial character if caught without her entire spell arsenal. Such as when sleeping. That's a feature, not a bug.

zainale wrote:
i for one have never played a wizard. but i thought a tribal witch doctor would be cool. i mean in a tribe of orcs there's one caster sort and he/she has to keep all those warriors from slitting his or her throat while he or she sleeps.

Sounds cool with a witch doctor type of character, but why do the orcs want to slit her throat all the time? Sure, they're violent, but they're not beyond reason. If the witch doctor is of any use to them, I don't see why she would fear for her life all the time.

Also, I'm having a hard time visualising how you're going to play this character. Where's the adventure taking place?


It would make total thematic sense for a tribal witch-doctor type caster to be using Performing Combatant and Hero's Display while flinging death. Throw in Mocking Dance for more really thematic hilarity. Dancing around yelling and brandishing an evil looking trophy-spear while throwing a fireball is just too perfect.


zainale wrote:
at what lvl does a wizard go from pasty scrawny that's easily killed to holy s&#+ where did that scary mofo come from, that can destroy us all?

I'd say level 5, that's when they can fly and throw fireballs, which I reckon is probably intimidating. Fly through the air defying gravity like it's nothing, then roasting an entire group of commoners with a single blast of flame sounds scary.

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