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supervillan wrote:

Enforcer feat plus spells that do non-lethal damage, eg frostbite.

APG wrote:

Enforcer (Combat)

You are skilled at causing fear in those you brutalize.

Prerequisite: Intimidate 1 rank.

Benefit: Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.

Frostbite is spell, not a melee weapon.

A point to note, Rays and Spell Weapons (eg Spiritual Weapon) count as Weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons, including feats that affect weapons. Such as Weapon Specialization. As per the FAQ.

A melee weapon spell that does non-lethal damage, or cast with Merciful metamagic feat, could work with the Enforcer feat. Though I would discuss it with your DM as opposed to rules lawyering him into accepting it.

There is also the Fearsome metamagic feat, similar to Intimidate.

Though with either of the above you have to damage someone for it to work. There is no Intimidation factor for those watching/seeing it happen.

*edit effect/affect

If you're not married to a given class, the abyssal bloodrager bloodline eventually enlarges when you rage, and the bear spirit for the medium makes you large and eventually huge (at least, the playtest version does; we'll have to wait a few months to see the release version).

A couple other options,

Goliath Druid archetype
Plant Sub Domain - Growth

There is the "Undersized Mount" feat that allows you to ride a mount of the same size.
One less spell to have to rely on.

Some DM's track arrows some don't care. As a player I like to have an item that allows me to carry enough arrows that it doesn't matter either way.

If you are allowed to craft or buy custom magic items, my current archer uses a

Quiver of Abundant Arrows

Awesome Blow (Monster) Feat

If you are willing to allow him to take a Monster Feat, this would work well.

Is there anything to support a character voluntarily failing a CMD.
If not, as a DM, would you allow it?

An example being, one character wanting to Bull Rush another character out of danger.

Another example, a character wanting to be Grappled by a monster so that it can get close for a special attack.

Both seem reasonable and heroic.
As a DM this can always be house ruled, would this be supported in PFS?

Still can't contact her, so for now let's assume that she will either go melee or ranged. Would a TWF shillelagh build work for a druid?

Here is a sample Human Nature Fang Druid I built using Shillelagh

Human/Half Orc
- + 2 to Str

Trait
- Magical Lineage (Shillelagh)
- Bred for War (+1 Intimidate +1 CMB)

Plant Domain (Growth Sub)
- Enlarge as a Swift action
- Enlarge and Righteous Might Domain spells

Feats
1st Improved Initiative/ (Insert Human Feat)
3rd Power Attack
4th TWF (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
5th Improved Overrun
6th Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff (ST: Weapon Training))
7th Quicken Spell (Quicken Shillelagh as 4th level spell)
8th ITWF (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
9th Greater Overrun
10th Double Slice (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
11th Vital Strike
12th Two-Weapon Rend (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
13th Improved Critical (Quarterstaff)
etc.

Since this Character does not have Acrobatics or a good Dex, Overrun is used to help get positioning on the battle field without provoking AoO.

With her being an Elf and wanting a Wolf she wouldn't have access to Enlarge but she could still be a good TWF with Shillelagh.
Remember that Studied Target will help offset the 3/4 BAB.

A good prestige class for her (if melee focused) could be Gray Warden.
Adds more sneak attack and Bane to her Shillelagh.
Still ends up with 9th level spells if the campaign goes to level 20.

Also keep in mind that her Dex does not need to be higher than 14 (though she may want it to be) since she can get TWF and ITWF from Slayer Talents.

If she is ok giving up the Wolf, another good domain could be Crocodile.
Adds 1D6 sneak attack and a familiar.
That said I prefer the Growth sub Domain for reach with a TWF 3D6 Shillelagh

First off I want to say thanks for all the input, everyone!

Since this was a brand new group when we first started gaming together, I tried to put some focus on each player to give them a moment in the spotlight. It was pretty clear from that session that he didn't care much for being the center of focus. He gravitates to following along with others' decisions. He's not one for getting heavily invested in character or voices or anything of that nature.

Another possibility is that this person isn't interested in the rules. I have played with many people who enjoy playing in a fantasy world and could care less about 5'Steps, spell DC's, or THACO's ;) .

The best would be to talk with him and get an understanding about what he enjoys most about the game, and what he enjoys least. An easy casual conversation that may help lead to the root of the issue.
This may also provide some insight as to how best to get him more invested in his character. On the flip side you may find that to him "it's just a game" no different then playing Risk or Settlers of Catan.

claudekennilol wrote:

What are some PFS legal items that grant natural attacks? And as long as I'm asking, what are some good abilities to put on an Amulet of Mighty Fists for a natural attack focused character?

If you're a Barbarian, Furious gives you a +2 for the price of a +1,

Also as a Barbarian, Lesser Fiend Totem - Gore Attack.

This really, really needs to be explicitly addressed, especially as many players and DMs come from 3.5e where the Search skill explicitly stated the area searched was a maximum of a 5 ft. square. Can we please have an FAQ on this?

Does anyone have the information from Unchained that Mark Seifter is referring to? Can they assist in clarifying this point?

This is correct.

Search
"Action
It takes a full-round action to search a 5-foot-by-5-foot area or a volume of goods 5 feet on a side."

Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

Depending on what Class(es) you are using, keep the above FAQ in mind.

Talk_softly_and_carry_a_big_stick

Since you started by asking about the Druid here is a link to a large Druid build focused on using Shillelagh.

I started with the Nature Fang archetype and Growth Domain.
The Goliath Druid was suggested there as well.

With Barkskin, Stoneskin, Restist Energy and good Fort & Will saves Druids can build up some good defenses to offset their lack of armor. Once you can afford it, you can upgrade to Dragon Hide.

Of course there are many "Tanks" that can be built in Pathfinder. I would suggest narrowing down what type of character you would like to be.
Conan, King Arthur, Hulk, etc.
Then, if needed, ask for assistance with that build.

Another option,
Sacred Fist (Warpriest archtype) with a reach weapon (Deity favored weapon).

* with the feats Crusaders Flurry and Weapon Focus

Added a look at the archetypes and other class options (bloodlines etc). Nothing fantastically amazing, but a few okay ones, and a clever trick in the use of certain races ability to count as higher level for Oracle Revelations.

Have also shifted the table of contents to the start of it, now there's rather more there than just the links to the forms for the different spells.

As a Bloodrager with the Abyssal Bloodline you get Demonic Bulk

Also there is the Cleric/Druid Plant sub Domain Growth.
You get Enlarge Person as a swift action and Enlarge Person and Righteous Might as Domain Spells.

I realize that these are not "Polymorph" in the sense that you are still Humanoid, but they are similar to Giant Form so I thought I would mention them.
There can be advantages to growing large while retaining your equipment.

* Great resource by the way, thank you.

You can get more sneak attack via the Crocodile Domain if you want it. You'd loose the enlarge domain power and spell that way though.

True, Crocodile would add additional sneak (2D6 by 11th level).

bludgeoner/sap adept/sap master - sounds fun :)

Sap Master needs 3D6 Sneak though and I only have 1D6.
The Bludgeoner feat alone might be a nice add-on for the missing Human bonus feat if I cannot use Preferred Spell with a Domain spell.

Then I can run around like Friar Tuck and knock people on the head without killing them.

Just throwing this out there because I have no idea what latitude your GM might allow you, but a one level dip into the Living Monolith prestige class might be just the ticket for this sort of build.

Thank you for the suggestion. The entry requirements seem a little convoluted for our gaming table though. Would have to come up with a good back story or work around (e.g. a Dwarven Druid becoming a Living Monolith, or a campaign revolving around an Egyptian motif)

You'd have to burn through your spells more quickly with Nature Fang, and you can only be Large for minutes/level a day (because you can only cast your Domain spells once a day) instead of hours/level a day as the Goliath Druid. You also would build differently (you need way more Dex to make the TWF prereqs, so you probably have lower stats elsewhere).

That said, the Studied Target boost probably makes that a moot point most of the time. I say choose the one that feels more fun to you.

I was under the impression that because Druids did not have Domain slots that Domain spells were added to their spell list. Having gone back and reread Nature Bond I see that they add a Domain Slot, my bad. One of those little Pathfinder things I am still adjusting to.

If you are referring to going TWF with Nature Fang, one of the benefits is that you don't need to meet the prereqs (i.e. Dex) since you are getting those feats through the Slayer Talent(Ranger Combat Style).

So I guess the difference comes down to being Large more often and more easily (Goliath) or more combat options switching between TWF and two-handed fighting. I appreciate being shown the Goliath Druid, but between the two I think I prefer the versatility and the imagery of the TWF Nature Fang.

Can one use the "Preferred Spell" feat to spontaneously cast domain spells in non-domain slots? The only limiter appears to be "one spell which you have the ability to cast".

Admittedly Goliath Druid is very intriguing!
I had not read through this Archtype.

I would love to get Giant Form I and II as spells into the Nature Fang build.
These would all be great.

· +8 size bonus to Strength
· -2 penalty to Dexterity
· +6 size bonus to Constitution
· +6 natural armor bonus
· low-light vision
· +10 foot enhancement bonus to your speed

The concern being with –2 Dex and no more Slayer talents TWF is pretty much out.
Would need 19 Dex and missing a lot of feats.

That would leave the build (using Shillelagh) as a two handed weapon only, though getting a little more out of it with the ability to be Huge.

Worth considering as you hold onto Wild Shape. Being able to swap out Enlarge Person anytime is nice also.
The action economy would improve as once you hit 6th you can Wild Shape into a Giant for 12 hours of the day.
That said, by 8th there is little need for Enlarge Person.

Would these be the feats then?
Feats
1st Improved Initiative/ (Insert Human Feat)
3rd Power Attack
5th Improved Overrun
7th Quicken Spell (Quicken Shillelagh as 4th level spell)
9th Vital Strike
11th Greater Overrun
13th Improved Critical (Quarterstaff)
15th Improved Vital Strike

Comparing the two at 12th Nature Fang seems to have the advantage.

Goliath
+9/+4 BAB
+10 (+15) Str (with Size) 18 starting +3 levels +4 item +6(Giant form)
+1 (+1) Quarterstaff (w/ Shillelagh)
+2 Flank
+1 (+1) Random party bonus (Bard/Haste/Prayer/etc)
-3 (+9) Power Attack

+20/+15 (+26)

Fang
+9/+4 BAB
+8 (+8) Str (with Size) 18 starting +3 levels +4 item +2(Enlarge)
+1 (+1) Quarterstaff (w/ Shillelagh)
+2 Flank
+1 (+1) Random party bonus (Bard/Haste/Prayer/etc)
+3 (+3) Studied Target
+1 Weapon Focus
-2 TWF

+23/+18 (+13)
+23/+18 (+13)

+20/+15 (3D6+26)
+20 (6D6+26) – Vital Strike
vs
+23/+18 (3D6+13) + Sneak (1D6) + Two-Weapon Rend (1D10+12)
+23/+18 (3D6+13)
+22 (6D6+26) – Vital Strike w/Power Attack

At 14th the Goliath gains an additional +2 Str and D6 to the Quarterstaff for being Huge (Giant Form II).
At 15th Improved Vital Strike + Huge + Shillelagh is sweet.
12D6 :) that is a lot of levels to wait though.

Originally with the Nature Fang I choose Quicken on Enlarge Person since it’s a Round to cast.
Maybe with the Nature Fang build, taking Quicken on Shillelagh and getting Permanency on Enlarge Person
would be an easier way to go. After all, it is in the core rules already.

Making the Quarterstaff whole

*** This is by no means an optimization guild, but rather an attempt at a fun character ***
*** please take this into account when replying – Thank you ***

I am looking at building a Large melee Druid around the Quarterstaff, using Shillelagh as a staple for combat.

Originally I had planned to do this using a Wild Shaping Druid (Apes, Dire Apes, etc)
but your equipment does not grow (e.g. your weapon), rather it merges.
So you would be forced to walk around with a tree truck (Large Quarterstaff),
drop it when Wild Shaping and then pick it up again.
From a role-playing stand point, not very interesting.

The following is what I have come up with instead.
-This character will be played from 1st level on.

Human/Half Orc
- + 2 to Str

Trait
- Magical Lineage (Enlarge)

Druid (Nature Fang)
-Shillelagh
-Slayer Talents (actually important)
-Full caster

Plant Domain (Growth Sub)
- Enlarge as a Swift action
- Enlarge and Righteous Might added to Spell list

Feats
1st Improved Initiative/ (Insert Human Feat)
3rd Power Attack
4th TWF (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
5th Improved Overrun
6th Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff (ST: Weapon Training))
7th Quicken Spell (Quicken Enlarge as 4th level spell)
8th ITWF (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
9th Greater Overrun
10th Double Slice (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
11th Vital Strike
12th Two-Weapon Rend (ST: Ranger Combat Style)
13th Improved Critical (Quarterstaff)
etc.

Nature Fang Archtype
Since I could not use Wild Shape “well” with the Quarterstaff I looked around and found the Nature Fang Archtype.
The Slayer Talents let you acquire the TWF chain without the Dex requirement, allowing us to focus on Str and avoid Weapon Finesse.
Studied Target offsets the ¾ BAB and helps with TWF/Power Attack penalties.
The 1d6 Sneak attack is just an extra.

Strengths
Swift action Enlarge (as SU or Spell) and cast Shillelagh (3d6 Double weapon)
Then use overrun to “get behind” opponents to provide flank and gain 1d6 sneak.
Being large with flank and Shillelagh one does 4d6 + bonuses.
There is added versatility as you can two weapon fight or two handed fight with Power attack and Vital strike.
Overrun is used to assist getting around the battlefield since we don’t have acrobatics.
I purposely left out Quarterstaff Master and Weapon Specialization in favor of Improved/Greater Overrun.

If there is time to prep, Righteous Might (at higher levels), Barkskin, Stoneskin, and other Defensive spells.
When not in Melee, or unable to reach for various reasons, you still have a full caster to fall back on.

Weaknesses
Low AC with limited armor, lower Dex and being large (spells will help),
no magic weapon (since using Shillelagh) and possibly over coming high damage reduction
(hoping vital strike will help, 7d6 + bonuses when large and flanking).
Casting Shillelagh every encounter. Even with Extend, at 10th level that is only 20min.
Should our DM allow it I will be trying to get Permanency cast on Shillelagh.
Maybe a Lesser Metamagic Rod with Extend would at least help.

Having played D&D for a long time I am familiar with the in and outs,
that said this is only my second campaign in Pathfinder and want to ensure a character that can last into the higher levels.

Any thoughts, recommendations, or holes that I may have missed?

Confusion the condition, or Confusion the spell.

If it's the spell, Spell Immunity Communal, and you are done.

A fun TWFing Dwarf that I played in 3.5 consisted of Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian

If recall I went 2/5/2 ish.
F, R, B, F, R, B, R, R, R
Then went into a Fighter/Rogue prestige class with full BaB and Sneak Attack 1 every 3-4 levels (shadow something, from one of the completes)

Couldn't seem to edit original post

The prestige class was Nightsong Enforcer, and now that I think about it the Barbarian was an Alternative from Unearthed Arcana that gained an extra attack and didn't lose Dex when raging. Synergized very well with a duel wielding sneak attacking Roguish fighter.

Don't think it will work out as well in core Pathfinder.

That said, extra damage dice is a good way to up the damage of a TWF.
A Fighter 9/Rogue 3 with Improved Two Weapon Fighting would add up to 8d6 when flanking. If you don't like any other Rogue Talent you can take Weapon Training(Weapon Focus (Urgosh)).

Also as lemeres said, consider that Greater Two Weapon Fighting has a significant penalty to hit. There might be better options then trying to achieve a 19 Dex and a -12 third attack. Especially when you need STR to hit.

A fun TWFing Dwarf that I played in 3.5 consisted of Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian
If recall I went 2/5/2 ish.
F, R, B, F, R, B, R, R, R
Then went into a Fighter/Rogue prestige class with full BaB and Sneak Attack 1 every 3-4 levels (shadow something, from one of the completes)

This gave me the feats I needed, the bonus damage dice when flanking (not as reliant on STR),
and bonuses to strength (rage) when needed.
Not sure if this would play out as well in Pathinder.
That said the Barbarian is more versatile now.

Food for thought.

Player's Handbook Image

2nd Edition was still "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons"
They dropped "Advanced" when 3rd came out because they felt the word "advanced" deterred too many new people from playing.

Edit* made it a link

One of the biggest difference that appears to have been missed is Saving Throws.
There is no DC system, you have a set save vs a type of attack.
An example would be a Fighter needs a 14 to save vs Poison and a 17 to save vs Spells at 1st level. Where as a Cleric might need a 10 vs Poison and a 15 vs Spells at 1st.
There are 5 categories, as opposed to 3, they go sometime like this

Poison
Petrificaton/Paralysation
Rods/Staves/Wands
Breath Weapons
Spells

Different races can get bonuses to the saves (Dwarves, Halflings)
As you get higher levels your class saves get better,
but different classes progress at different rates/levels.
The above is all off the top of my head from playing 2nd edition pre 3rd edition release,
so don't quote me on it, but it gives you a good idea of the difference

A few more that get missed around some gaming tables.

1) You can only Dismiss a spell with a (D) beside the Duration. Other wise the spell has to run the full duration. Dismissing takes a Standard Action.

Discharge

Occasionally a spells lasts for a set duration or until triggered or discharged.

(D) Dismissible

If the duration line ends with “(D),” you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not take an action, since all you have to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating on your turn.

For example, once combat is done you can dismiss Entangle.

2) You cannot take a 5-Foot Step in Difficult Terrain or Darkness.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

3) You can Stand up from Prone(Move Action), take a 5-Foot Step(No Action/Miscellaneous), and cast a Spell or Attack (Standard Action), all in the same round.

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

Stand Up
Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.

Standing up from prone requires a Move Action, but does not move you any distance measurable in game terms.

Interesting idea.

In real world terms (cause we know that always helps in fantasy :) ),
a Chimp walks on 2 feet (land speed) slower than it climbs across the ground with hands and feet (climb speed).

Food for thought.

"Gore and Bite might be possible, but the others are not going to work."

Gargoyles can Bite and Gore as part of a full attack.