The description of the sword cane focuses on how the sword is a hidden weapon. It never addresses using it as a cane in a fight.
Can you use the sword cane as a light mace, club, or other blunt stick without taking improvised weapon penalties? This seems like something that you really should be able to do.
The description of the sword cane focuses on how the sword is a hidden weapon. It never addresses using it as a cane in a fight.
Can you use the sword cane as a light mace, club, or other blunt stick without taking improvised weapon penalties? This seems like something that you really should be able to do.
Just in case those of us who have Eagle Knights come across a less than worthy Andoran representative in the street and wish to give them a good caning?
I'm on board with this question!
That or if someone is running an Investigator and wants to use bartitsu style like in a certain mystery series.
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I would take the same damage model and just make it blunt. Good question Bretl.
A club is free, so just add a club to your character, and say the extra weight is a reinforced sheath for the hidden sword.
A club is free, so just add a club to your character, and say the extra weight is a reinforced sheath for the hidden sword.
I second this motion. A club is also a simple weapon. As long as you have the proficiency for it, I don't see why it couldn't work.
Hanbo are described as often being carved to look like a walking stick. In a homebrew game, the GM let me make a hanbo/swordcane combo weapon, since it was set in a city where bladed weapons were mostly prohibited.
Can you use the sword cane as a light mace, club, or other blunt stick without taking improvised weapon penalties?
Given that a cane itself is a classic example of an improvised weapon, I would flat-out refuse to allow this. (There's this little thing called "balance," you see, that's part of what makes a fighting club and not, for example, a chair leg.)
The description of the sword cane focuses on how the sword is a hidden weapon. It never addresses using it as a cane in a fight.
Can you use the sword cane as a light mace, club, or other blunt stick without taking improvised weapon penalties? This seems like something that you really should be able to do.
Given that it's a hollow cover as opposed to the solid stick a staff would be, I'd say use staff stats with a one step reduction. Or treat it as a small staff with the size modifier on the to hit roll.
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Given that a cane itself is a classic example of an improvised weapon, I would flat-out refuse to allow this. (There's this little thing called "balance," you see, that's part of what makes a fighting club and not, for example, a chair leg.)
Classically and historically I think there's evidence to support being *a weapon, not improvised*?
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Given that a cane itself is a classic example of an improvised weapon, I would flat-out refuse to allow this. (There's this little thing called "balance," you see, that's part of what makes a fighting club and not, for example, a chair leg.)
So a cane can be used effectively only against a helpless opponent, because it breaks as soon as it's used in a real fight? Thanks for proving my point (rather conclusively) for me.
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You left off the ooc comment at the end. Nice try, though.
Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I am looking for something in the rules though, not something that would have to be worked out with a GM. Most of my Pathfinder games are PFS rather than home games.
As for the difference between this and a chair leg, I'm looking for a way to have the scabbard be designed for combat. There is already a Combat Scabbard, but that seems to be limited to scabbards for heavy blades. I do not believe that this would work for a sword cane.
I don't mind if it requires special materials or something like that.
The main purpose of a sword cane was not to create two effective weapons, but to hide the presence of a sword in a social setting.
I would use the same stats just change the damage to bludgeoning/non lethal.
Because you would swing the cane in exactly the same manor as if you were using it as a sword. You would be holding it in the same manor, hell you could even jab with it. The only difference is that it is still sheathed. You wouldn't forget how to swing it just because you didn't expose the blade, that would be ridiculous.
Also certain aristocrats likely beat poor performing servants or slaves with their canes all the time. Or knock away beggar's hand with their cane, lift up the hem of a ladies skirt, trip people...
The main purpose of a sword cane was not to create two effective weapons, but to hide the presence of a sword in a social setting.
Which might have worked if a first level commoner couldn't detect that there was a sword hidden in the cane.
If an alternative may be on the table, then there's the double walking stick katana.
From Ultimate Combat
Katana, Double Walking Stick: This single case conceals a pair of matched fighting swords perfectly balanced to be wielded as a pair. Despite their name, the blades more closely resemble the shorter wakizashi. When drawn, the blades use the statistics listed on the table. When the blades are concealed in their case, this weapon can be used as a quarterstaff.
Yes, this is much more like what I was looking for. Too bad they made it an exotic weapon.
Thanks again for all the replies.
I'd go with the sheath being a club with the fragile property unless it's Masterwork and magical. [basically using the Primitive Materials rules].
I'd just treat it as an improvised weapon with club stats.
I would probably allow a houserule to increase the DC to notice a sword hidden in the cane by increasing the quality of the cane, similar to how manacles are more difficult to escape from as they raise in quality and price.
CampinCarl9127: I'd allow a Masterwork bonus to the DC's. I'd make that a different cost [+50 gp] from making it a masterwork weapon.
For those treating the cane as an improvised weapon, you could take the trait rough and ready [profession: soldier]. That'd get rid of the improvised weapon penalty and instead get a +1.
Agreed, it should be a different cost than making the weapon masterwork.
On the topic of Combat Scabbards:
Source Adventurer's Armory, pg. 6
Statistics
Cost 1 gp Weight 1 lb.
Damage 1d4 (small), 1d6 (medium); Critical x2; Range —; Type B; Special improvised, see text
Description
This scabbard is an improvised weapon designed to allow you to remove it from your belt as a swift action when drawing the weapon it contains. Taking the Equipment Trick feat (see page 22) for a scabbard gives you additional combat options for using a scabbard. For the purpose of fighter weapon groups, a scabbard for a heavy blade is considered a hammer, and a scabbard for a light blade is considered a close weapon.
Source Dirty Tactics Toolbox, pg. 18, Sargava, the Lost Colony, pg. 25, Adventurer's Armory pg. 22
Choose one piece of equipment, such as boots, a cloak, rope, a shield, or a heavy blade scabbard. You understand how to use that item in combat.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1.
and finally
Source Adventurer's Armory, pg. 22
In addition to the feat, skill, or other requirement listed for each of these tricks, you must have the Equipment Trick (heavy blade scabbard) feat to use a trick. You may use these tricks with any sword scabbard designed for a heavy blade (see the fighter weapon groups on page 56 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). At your GM’s discretion, you may be able to use some of these tricks with a scabbard intended for a light blade, but that requires a separate Equipment Trick feat and may be less effective.
So, a sword cane should qualify, as long as the GM is okay with it.... which kinda goes without saying.