Is there a trend for one gender or the other to lean closer towards narrative/story style versus mechanical/crunch style?I'm not talking system understanding/mastery here, but I've noticed that more women have a narrative/story style in groups I've played with, backed with 'crunch', whereas more men have 'crunch' sometimes backed with narrative/story?
Before this sidetracks to a powergame/character-driven discussion, that's not my goal here.
I prefer story/narrative, but I've seen more women lean towards that direction in my play than men? I think it's great, wish there was more of it, honestly?
Anecdotally, I find this more true as a generalization. One reason I try to have groups with at least 1 female person. All male groups I have been in may start off with a semblance of story with some background for the characters, but they have typically devolved into combat combat numbers combat. The games with females in it that I have been part of will have a higher "concentration" of roleplay and story (though combat can happen). I had gone 3 sessions with 0 combat in a group with 3 women, and it was kinda nice.
This is not to say there isn't story and roleplay in male-only or male-dominated groups, but this has been my experience. Your experience may vary.
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That matches my experience as well.
Heh... I remember when a female friend of mine decided to try RPGs because she liked the idea of roleplaying her character's quirks and personality... Then she dropped her initial Rogue concept for a Barbarian build when she found out they do more damage.
She still roleplayed the Barbarian really well, but it's always funny to watch newcomers succumb to the temptation of higher DPR. I believe "I can still roleplay while beating them up!" were her precise words... A true gamer, indeed. A shame that she moved to a different continent.
Stupid, sexy Europe... Stealing our players... XD
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I was the only female in our group for a good chunk of time. None of the male players ever made me feel uncomfortable in that place. They were very accepting and didn't engage in any misogynistic or sexist behavior. Most of the guys have also played a female character at least once.
The biggest problem I've ever had is when I occasionally decide to run a male character, the guys can't seem to remember to use the correct gender pronoun for my character. But they do the same thing to each other when one of them decides to run a female, so it's not just me.
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I was the only female in our group for a good chunk of time. None of the male players ever made me feel uncomfortable in that place. They were very accepting and didn't engage in any misogynistic or sexist behavior. Most of the guys have also played a female character at least once.
The biggest problem I've ever had is when I occasionally decide to run a male character, the guys can't seem to remember to use the correct gender pronoun for my character. But they do the same thing to each other when one of them decides to run a female, so it's not just me.
Watching some guys squirm when a male player plays a female character is its own special kind of hilarious. I was probably just as guilty of not being able to wrap my brain around it for my first 15 years of gaming.
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Watching some guys squirm when a male player plays a female character is its own special kind of hilarious. I was probably just as guilty of not being able to wrap my brain around it for my first 15 years of gaming.
One of the reasons I play female characters much more often in PbP than I do in table games is the fact that it's much, much easier for other players to accurately visualize the character when they see a female avatar and read the words, instead of looking at my bearded face and listening to my horse-like voice.
It's also easier for me to resist the urge to try and act my character's voice and end up sounding like a hyena with a cold! XD
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I agree with Lemmy, but if I only played with visualization in mind, I'd only ever get to play goblin bloatmages.
*Ba-dum-tsh*
Watching some guys squirm when a male player plays a female character is its own special kind of hilarious. I was probably just as guilty of not being able to wrap my brain around it for my first 15 years of gaming.
I don't find it hilarious.
I've found it downright painful to watch as some of the most experienced GMs I've played under (different system, but gender has no mechanical effect there, either, theoretically) have melt-downs or slide straight to misogynistic paths or even worse, refer to my character as 'it', because they couldn't handle the idea of a guy playing a female character.
And that wasn't just male GMs, in case folks were wondering in my case.
The squickiest situation was where a female GM started to put my female character in a position that evoked some background PTSD(That the GM was aware of), and then couldn't understand why said character armed all the explosive devices on their person to stop said situation from 'happening again'.
In addition, I've seen the *same* melt-down happen when women play male characters.
I try to keep my gender-confusing characters PbP for the most part, for the same reason Lemmy notes above.
Heh. D&D didn't exist until after I finished graduate school, so no tales of groups in college. I did play some when I was in my first ship in the Navy, but that was back when only men went to sea, so no women there either. Since then I've not played much at all. Trying to get a group together now, but so far there's only two of us, both male. Folks my age are mostly not really interested.
Heh. D&D didn't exist until after I finished graduate school, so no tales of groups in college. I did play some when I was in my first ship in the Navy, but that was back when only men went to sea, so no women there either. Since then I've not played much at all. Trying to get a group together now, but so far there's only two of us, both male. Folks my age are mostly not really interested.
You could try PbP as well... It's a good way to keep the urge to roleplay in check. ^^
A friend of mine did have a somewhat rotten experience in PbP where he tried to play an agendered character. The GM insisted on calling them "she", even though this character explicitly went by "they". My friend even called the GM out on it a few times, and each time the GM would just sort of shrug it off, apologize, then go right back to doing it.
It's a slightly different issue, but yeah, some people really have strong gender holdups even when you're online. My friend ended up leaving over it and other issues.
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People having problems with player/character gender disparity seems odd... given that GMs play characters of different genders all the time... unless the world is bizarrely populated only by NPCs of a single gender. Why would it be perfectly acceptable for the GM to do, but somehow 'weird' for a player?
At that... players regularly represent characters of entirely different species and someone is getting hung up on a single chromosome difference?
my current group has around 10 people who play regularly play. Sadly it's only in a single game so it's really hectic.
we have
3 girls
1 gay guy
1 bi guy
1 ftm trans
4 males
I find that the players that have a problem with other players having characters that do not match their player's gender to be the same kind of players that view all characters as the fantasy version of the player.
In other words, if a player creates a character and the character looks like, acts like, and thinks like themself, then it becomes difficult to separate the character and the player.
People having problems with player/character gender disparity seems odd... given that GMs play characters of different genders all the time... unless the world is bizarrely populated only by NPCs of a single gender. Why would it be perfectly acceptable for the GM to do, but somehow 'weird' for a player?
I suspect it's because a player is expected to identify with their character, whereas the GM is merely playing a passing NPC that facilitates the player's journey (to put it rather pretentiously :)).
I have had a GM who refused to let male players play female characters because he claimed never to have seen it done well - although he was OK with female players playing cross-gender.
I play a female character in the rare chance I'm a player. She's not bubble headed bimbo nor does she sleep with all the handsome half orcs she meets. She's the very efficient, competent cleric who handles healing and ass-kicking as needed. No one's had a single problem with it, and it's never really been an issue for other guys in my group(s) to play females. But, every table is different. And should another of the male players grab her butt, they'd find themselves w/out healing for a day or so.
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People having problems with player/character gender disparity seems odd... given that GMs play characters of different genders all the time... unless the world is bizarrely populated only by NPCs of a single gender. Why would it be perfectly acceptable for the GM to do, but somehow 'weird' for a player?
Probably because of frequency, depth and expectation.
GMs play all sorts of characters of both genders, which means about 50% of the time they match their gender. Also, most characters the GM is playing have no depth... It doesn't matter if "Random Orc #347" is male or female... It'll be gone at the end of combat and never remembered. Same goes for the waiter who'll be forgotten as soon as we leave the tavern. Often times, there is not even a character to be roleplayed, maybe it's just the GM describing the scene. Lastly, there's the expectation of the GM playing multiple characters, so players rarely associate a character to them... For the PCs it's different, you expect your friends to consistently roleplay the same characters, but the brain still associates that person with... well... that person.
At that... players regularly represent characters of entirely different species and someone is getting hung up on a single chromosome difference?
This argument has a huge flaw: It ignores the fact that something nonexistent can be described however you want and still be accurate.
No one can say your elf "doesn't act like a real elf", that "elves wouldn't be treated this way" or that you're being "offensive to elves"... Elves don't exist! Anyway you portray them is just as valid as any other! Anything you do to them is okay, because they don't exist! If you turn all your elf characters simple-minded fools, that's okay... If you do the same to all your female characters, that'll (deservedly) look really bad, since women do exist.
Also, many times I've seen players forget about other character's races as well, usually assuming they are all human. :P
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Every game I've played in has had at least one woman.
Unless all elves in a given setting are explicitly described as behaving a certain way and you do not behave that way, of course.At that... players regularly represent characters of entirely different species and someone is getting hung up on a single chromosome difference?This argument has a huge flaw: It ignores the fact that something nonexistent can be described however you want and still be accurate.
No one can say your elf "doesn't act like a real elf", that "elves wouldn't be treated this way" or that you're being "offensive to elves"... Elves don't exist! Anyway you portray them is just as valid as any other! Anything you do to them is okay, because they don't exist! If you turn all your elf characters simple-minded fools, that's okay...
Still... All that means is that your portrayal of elves doesn't match someone else's portrayal of elves (in this case, the author of that setting).
It means you are not going along with the setting, which I generally consider to be a cardinal sin in games (unless the GM specifically OKs it, obviously). If X is the case in setting Y and the GM specifically enforces that X is correct and non-X is wrong, doing non-X is Doing It Wrong. If you tried playing Mystaran Ilsundalian elves in Dark Sun, you would be Doing It Wrong.
You're both completely missing the point and derailing the thread, so I'll just say "Sure, whatever..." and leave it at that.
I have 2 groups I run for group A is my friends which is 2 men and their wives, my wife and a female friend of ours so women out number men 2:1 in that group. Group B is my brother and his friends from highschool. 4 guys as the basis with open slots for my wife if she wants to play in something more action oriented and any of their other friends who might want to try. Can be as many as 3 girls at the table or just a 7 guy bro-fest.
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My wife GMs three campaigns for me, two of which all the players are male. The third, our Scooby Doo-themed Carrion Crown, has two other women. We are wrapping up our Reign of Winter game tonight, in a group with her and one other woman as players.
My local PFS community has a fairly small pool of women, including one old hand that has been playing far longer than most of us, and a family that plays Pathfinder with their three daughters and son. We also have a player that brings his daughter to play as well.
I've been playing with my daughter since she was almost 8, she's almost 12 now. :-)
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Oh my... not people!
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The excised content...IS PEOPLE!
Sigh. Pre-coffee posting is not without typos. Fixed!
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Sigh. Pre-coffee posting is not without typos. Fixed!The excised content...IS PEOPLE!
(That's what happens when my deific obedience is ignored. Mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!)
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Sigh. Pre-coffee posting is not without typos. Fixed!The excised content...IS PEOPLE!
This is why you don't mess with Chris in the morning. She fixes things before she had her coffee by removing people!
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This is why you don't mess with Chris in the morning. She fixes things before she had her coffee by removing people!Sigh. Pre-coffee posting is not without typos. Fixed!The excised content...IS PEOPLE!
{sings happily:} Troy Chris and Abed Lilith in the morning!
(Sorry, old habit.)
Quick survey... who here has a girl in their group... and is she treated with the respect she unquestionably deserves!! ;))
I started table-top gaming in the late 90's, and honestly, I think the only time there has been an entirely male table was when we took a break from 2nd Edition to play Classic Traveler for a bit, and the two girls decided to sit it out. Sometimes the table has more guys, sometimes it has more girls. It's usually based less on gender and more interest, gaming style and social groups.
Now, I really only game with friends or friends-of-friends, and have never gamed in a store or at a convention (not that there are many of those in Australia, though the ill-fated GenCon Oz was pretty good for the two years it lasted). As a rough tally, the numbers come out along the lines of 500+ sessions, 4000+ hours and around 40 different people. I mention this not to brag, but to put the following statement in perspective.
Yes, there have been bigots. They have been very rare, usually not particularly load or dramatic and I invariably stop gaming with them (I don't find such attitudes conducive to fun), but they exist. In and out of the hobby.
I prefer not to see men playing as female characters because I have seen it done disrespectfully too many times. I was once at a table with Candy the exotic dancer and Barbie the barbarian, and one of the guys called the two men out on it. Candy's player protested that it wasn't a problem because he had female characters who were respectful. Ever since then, I'm uncomfortable with it.
To quote my first GM (who was a guy): "Roleplaying women is actually fairly easy. Just remember it's not about sex."
The main issue some guys have when making female characters is that, for whatever reason, they put sexuality first and foremost as the priority of the character (and there are those who meander into fantasy reenactment... but let's not go there right now). Which is ludicrous to the point of absurdity when you're playing a character fighting to stop the apocalypse.
In my experience, most (thankfully) get the hang of it eventually. Though I have gamed with groups who have a "Play your gender" policy, which I found a little... odd.
I also once was at a table where a male friend of mine was playing a female character, and one of the other men decided it was funny for his character to keep grabbing her ass. He wouldn't listen to the rest of us that this was not okay until the woman who was new to PFS spoke up to say that it was a problem.
My wife almost exclusively plays male characters, partly for this reason. No such behavior was ever directed at a female player, but a minority of players had no such consideration with regard to female characters, especially if they were played by a female player. And no, those same players usually didn't behave the same way if the female character's player was male.
Creepy harassment-by-proxy? Perhaps. And honestly while it isn't big, dramatic and "Let's get the internet to form two camps to wage war over social media" worthy, it is generally just uncool behavior the hobby could use less of.
... Lastly, there's the expectation of the GM playing multiple characters, so players rarely associate a character to them... For the PCs it's different, you expect your friends to consistently roleplay the same characters, but the brain still associates that person with... well... that person.
No? I expect the others at the table to play their characters, not themselves. When my wife plays a CG magus, I don't expect it to resemble her LE artificer or NE ranger (who was a cathartic slasher character), and none of them I expect to be her.
Most people I've gamed with have zero issues with people not playing their gender. A handful have, but in my experience at least they're the exception.
In short: Yes.
If my wife, sister (or eventually daughter) comes to me and tells me of their experience, dismissing it because it doesn't align with my experience / perceptions (Hint: Things are less noticeable when they're not directed at you) would be absurd. A bit of compassion and consideration never hurt anyone. Lack of it does.
Just my 2c
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