So I might find myself in a skull and shackles game soon and I'd like to make a Kraken druid of the pirate queen for it. That said, i have a fairly specific set of parameters for what i want this character to be able to do and I could use some help putting him together, noting non CRB spells that might help, etc etc.
So, the parameters are:
Domain instead of companion
Control caster rather than blaster/buffer, perhaps a bit of bad touch.
Building toward the Kraken style feat chain.
Core races only most like but ARG options available.
In summary I envision his combat style to be caster heavy, impeding and controlling the battlefield, but should someone get close it turns into a bad anime for that person real quick.
The game is Non PFS and non point buy, so stats are likely to end up on the high end of the point buy chain if not higher should past rolling methods be any indication.
There's a Kraken Caller archetype which is Besmara-only. Were you wanting to use it? Because purely for grappling and control spells it's probably better to go with the Nature Fang archetype instead. Studied Target for the attack/CMB and slayer talents (which can be more feats) help a lot when you're trying to go down a combat maneuver path while still picking up a couple of feats like Spell Focus, Persistent Spell and/or Dazing Spell.
Well, two problems. One, Kraken Style is all-round terrible. Two, Kraken Caller does not synergize, at all, with Kraken Style.
Belay that: Kraken Caller and Kraken Style have actual NEGATIVE synergy. If you're playing a Kraken Caller, you're doing it for the tentacles; you want to full-attack with those, either going with natural weapons only, or combining it with armed attacks, and that doesn't allow grappling. Grappling, on the other, does not allow attacking with your tentacles as well, nor do they provide a bonus.
A Druid with the Aquatic domain is very appropriate for Besmara. And now that you don't have a companion, maybe the GM will find it reasonable if you abuse Call Animal + charm animal/Wartrain Mount to acquire one.
Kraken Style....you can have it at level 5, and at level 6 you can wildshape into a giant octopus (using spells to get around), and absolutely murder things with 8 tentacle attacks each with Grab+Constrict+Wis from Kraken Style.
Ryan Freire wrote:
So, the parameters are:
Domain instead of companion
Control caster rather than blaster/buffer, perhaps a bit of bad touch.
Building toward the Kraken style feat chain.
Core races only most like but ARG options available.
In summary I envision his combat style to be caster heavy, impeding and controlling the battlefield, but should someone get close it turns into a bad anime for that person real quick.
Alright, neat. Kraken Caller provides lots of flavorful options to work with. As to what specifically will help you out with your protective grapple plan, your best bet is probably a form with grab and reach. Your grow some tentacles option can start doing this at level 8, and much better at 12, if you cast lockjaw on yourself and absorb all your tentacles but one into an extra-long one. Numbers of attacks don't really work to your advantage without dedicated self-buffing.
Alternately, taking the shape of a creature that already has grab at range helps with your grapple checks, as you'll be getting a strength bonus for size and will be able to skip taking multiattack right away if you want attacks with no penalty. Your limit of aquatic forms only makes sky swim a necessary spell for mobility in these shapes. At level 8 your best shape is probably giant moray eel and at level 10 you can upgrade to Dunkleosteus for greater range. You might also want to ask about crocodiles and frogs as possible shapes since that would give you a land speed, but RAW, they're off limits since they aren't called out as amphibians (or as having the water type which literally no animals do). Octopus and squid forms are of course an option but until you get multiattack, sadly, they can't hit much of anything with their tentacles.
Grappling reliably will take most of your available feats, so I'd suggest picking 1-2 metamagic feats at most to focus on, because if you want kraken style on top of normal grapple feats you'll be taking
1.improved unarmed strike
3.improved grapple(optional, but if you want to grapple before level 8 this makes it much easier, and a +2 bonus helps you keep up with the full bab foes who would come into melee range with you in the first place)
5.natural spell
7.Kraken Style
9.Greater Grapple
before your feat options start to open up a little.
Stat priorities are probably WIS,STR,CON,DEX,INT,CHA. Good luck and I hope it comes together as a fun character!
I think you can make a very powerful Kraken Caller. I have some questions about your GM's rule set.
Which versions of Feral Combat Training and--I guess--Master of Many Styles--is your GM using? Recently, they were nerfed. You can still apply Feats with Improved Unarmed Strike to the selected Natural Attack when you take Feral Combat Training, but you used to be able to apply "effects that augment an Unarmed Strike," and now you can't. Masters of Many Styles used to take Feats on their Style Feat trees as Bonus Style Feats. Now they can't. They used to be able to take those Feats without meeting any prerequisites except that of taking the first Style Feat first. Now they can't. But your GM might be using the older rules. It's worth asking.
How does your GM feel about taking Free Actions as part of an Attack of Opportunity? This is relevant to your build because Grab lets you make a Grapple Check as a Free Action whenever you hit with the grabby attack, in this case, all those Tentacles. So, my question is, if you make a Tentacle Attack as an Attack of Opportunity, can you then make a Grapple Check? Having made that Grapple Check, can you then release your victim, another Free Action? By RAW, those Free Actions are not allowed, but it was stated by a developer that it was the intent of the rules that you should be allowed to take Free Actions as part of your Attacks of Opportunity. You answer affects the build I recommend.
Is he using Unchained? Do you have to? Unchained nerfs Grappling big time.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Master of Many Styles As his goal was to be primarily a control caster, with melee as a backup option to keep people out of his face, I think multiclassing would do more harm than good. Losing caster levels, even one, is a pretty big deal for a class that already struggles with keeping their control spells relevant in many circumstances.
Speaking of keeping druid control spells relevant, you should ask about the Evergreen Seed Pouch from the adventure Daughters of Fury. They will let you use entangle on the deck of a ship or even underwater, no problem.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
grab lets you make a Grapple Check as a Free Action whenever you hit with the grabby attack, in this case, all those Tentacles.
The tentacles granted by kraken caller do not have grab, strangely enough. Actual octopus forms are necessary for that, or casting lockjaw once per tentacle. Unless you have a more efficient way to grant grab? I'd love it if you could find one, I have a natural attack user who is looking for just such a thing.
Wow, lot of response
1. Yes primary caster with grapple tentacles as backup. Adventure path is skull and shackles so i'm anticipating a fair bit of water combat.
2. Yes kraken caller of Besmara. I get that grapple might be tougher to pull off, but dirty trick (which synergizes some with the archetype) requires combat expertise :P
3. No to unchained base rule changes but i expect the classes are Ok, the feat for skill unlocks available, and POSSIBLY stamina for martials, but no action economy etc.
4. the nod to feats for casting i'm feeling tops out at extend spell for a handful of buffs. Druids have some frost tricks so rime spell might be a choice.
5. I'm really more inclined to stay full caster. This is a foible that i KNOW hinders me when optimizing but something keeps me from giving up spell levels, i'm more than OK with it for martials.
Kobold Commando wrote: As his goal was to be primarily a control caster, with melee as a backup option to keep people out of his face, I think multiclassing would do more harm than good. Losing caster levels, even one, is a pretty big deal for a class that already struggles with keeping their control spells relevant in many circumstances. Fair enough. I have been really into making melee builds, myself.
Ryan Freire wrote: 1. Yes primary caster with grapple tentacles as backup. Adventure path is skull and shackles so i'm anticipating a fair bit of water combat.
2. Yes kraken caller of Besmara. I get that grapple might be tougher to pull off, but dirty trick (which synergizes some with the archetype) requires combat expertise :P
But since you are thinking of growing tentacles and taking Kraken Style Feats, that suggests you are interested in incorporating Grappling into my build, which is something I know a lot about, and hopefully the readers will find some interesting ideas.
Kobold Commando wrote: The tentacles granted by kraken caller do not have grab, strangely enough. Huh. I missed that.
Kobold Commando wrote: Actual octopus forms are necessary for that, or casting lockjaw once per tentacle. Unless you have a more efficient way to grant grab? I'd love it if you could find one, I have a natural attack user who is looking for just such a thing. I do have! I have a few! For starters, by level 6, Wild Shape forms include Giant Octopus: 1 Bite and 8 Tentacles, all with Grab and Constrict! Take 2 Weapon and go ahead and use Unarmed Strikes: Tentacles are Secondary Natural Weapons, anyway. If you turn into a Giant Octopus a lot, you can have octopus-shaped barding armor made for you: Lamellar Horn Armor with Armor Spikes: every successful Grapple Attack also inflicts Armor Spike Damage: 1d8 for Size Large. Cast Lead Blades, and it goes up to 2d6. Take a level in Warpriest, and take Weapon Focus Tentacle, and all your Tentacles do Sacred Weapon Base Damage: 1d6 base for 1 level in Warpriest, 1d8 for Size Large. Then Cast Strong Jaw on yourself, and they do 3d6. 2 Levels in Alchemist grants you a Discovery, and you can take a Tentacle that does have Grab. Since that Tentacle doesn't grant an extra attack, you use your regular, "manufactured" weapon attack slot to attack with that, but there's no reason why you can't throw that tentacle in with your other natural Attacks. If you take 1 level in White Haired Witch, that White Hair has a sort of a Grab. It gets the free action Grapple, but not the +4. But when you Grapple off of the White Hair attack, you do NOT gain the Grappled condition when you have someone else Grappled! Another option is to take the Hamatula Strike Feat which allows a free Grapple check off of any attack with a Piercing Weapon.
Lockjaw is not a bad option for Kraken Callers, since they have they have the ability to merge all their tentacles into 1 big tentacle. In case of multiple opponents, take Great Cleave. There isn't any specified limit to the number of opponents you can have Grappled: you still Threaten squares while Grappling.
I consider Greater Grapple and Expert Captor essential for a Grapple build. Expert Captor is the Cavalier Level 2 Order of the Penitent ability. It lets you perform the Tie Up Grapple Action on a victim you have Grappled when normally, you have to have them Pinned. And you don't take that -10 penalty you normally do.
Greater Grapple lets you Grapple as a Move Action.
Rapid Grappler lets you Grapple as a Swift Action.
And of course Great Cleave is a Standard Action.
So, you can cast Strong Jaw on your big Tentacle, hitting and Grappling every opponent within your ever-increasing Reach. Then you can spend your Move Action to Tie Up one of your victims, and spend your Swift Action to Tie Up a second.
That's what I call battlefield control!
The fastest way I know for increasing your Grapple Mod is to take 4 levels in Alchemist. In 4 levels, your BAB only goes up by +3, but there is the Tentacle Discovery, which has Grab for +4. And there is the Tumor Familiar Discovery. A Crab Familiar gives you a +2 on Grapple Checks. In addition, the Strength Mutagen gives you a +4 Strength for an additional +2 GMB. And there is True Strike. Since a Grapple Check is an Attack Roll, it is modified by True Strike. But you need 2 Attack Rolls to Tie Up your opponent, and True Strike only works on 1. How do you cast True Strike in between the Standard Action you used to Initiate the Grapple and the Move Action you need to Tie your opponent Up?
My answer is the Potion Glutton Feat. Found in Inner Sea Gods, it lets you drink any potable as a Swift Action. "Potable" is just a word that means "drinkable," and Alchemists drink their Extracts! Between sundry magic items, Greater Grapple, Grab, the Familiar, and now those Kraken Feats, by level 8, you can quite plausibly gain a permanent GMB of +30. So when your GM sics a Balor Demon on you. The thing to do is hit yourself with a Wand of True Strike, then then next round, the Wizard DimDors you up to the Balor Demon. You Initiate your Grapple as a Standard Action. Take your Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, then Tie him Up as a Move Action!
Since we are talking about using Lockjaw for Grab, you could just dip 2 levels in Alchemist for the Familiar, Mutagen, and True Strike.
The problem with Potion Glutton is, though, that it requires you worship Uragothoa, and being a Kraken Caller requires you worship Besmara. But, that's really the GM's call: it doesn't hurt to ask. In my campaigns, I don't even use Paizo deities: I prefer my own pantheon.
Melded Tentacles won't stack with Strong Jaw, I think. The way it's worded, Kraken Caller melded tentacles are bigger, but they do extra damage "as it they were 1 size bigger," probably meaning that that constitutes a Virtual Size Increase which won't stack with Strong Jaw, another Virtual Size Increase.
If you take 1 level in Warpriest and Weapon Focus Tentacle, your base Tentacle Damage jumps up to 1d6--Sacred Weapon Damage. Then as you have more tentacles to merge into 1, your damage goes up even better: 1d8 at level 6, 2d6 at level 8, etc.
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