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I keep thinking of 1E first level Wizards. You got ONE spell per day and no other class features. Usually that was a Sleep spell you used to nuke 1 encounter because Sleep was a lot more broken back then than it is now. The rest of the time you threw darts for 1d3 damage, or flasks of oil if you had some money, ran around stabilizing party members or anything else you could think of to be useful and not bored. So 1E 1st level Wizards were both a 1 shot and a 1 trick pony by rules default and you just had to deal with it until you got higher level (which, BTW, usually took a lot longer than it does now).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Bows are generally miss for the amount of trouble you have to go through to make it work after a while. Fly is a better alternative but even then there are hard counters to that.Having even a small chance to hit with a bow is still better than just just standing there with your thumb up your butt.
DR 15 is a thing. We've sat at tables together we could have fought monsters with DR 15. Unless you follow up having a bow with the purchase I have no clue how many different types arrows you would need to bypass DR its not good advice.
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DR 15 is a thing. We've sat at tables together we could have fought monsters with DR 15. Unless you follow up having a bow with the purchase I have no clue how many different types arrows you would need to bypass DR its not good advice.
That is noted, but I think the point of the thread is expressing frustration for people who don't even go so far as to carry a bow. While DR 15 is a thing, the simple situation of "Circumstances of the fight make it so you cannot melee attack the bad guy at this time" is a lot more likely to come up on its own, especially at low level before the really fun stuff kicks in. Even more so if table assignments set you up with a low magic party.
We're generally encouraging people to consider picking up a bow versus the alternative of doing slightly less than nothing in a fight where they can't just charge in. I would call it good advice on those grounds. If nothing else, cold iron arrows are so cheap you might as well buy them by default and other materials are affordable if you're only buying single batches of arrows for emergencies.
I'd prefer doing nothing rather than hassling myself doing 1 or 2 damage having wasted some resources which would be better spent focusing on the main fighting style, or investing only if I'm sure the secondary will be meaningful.
Mucking about with inventory and shopping can be a chore, but consider the rest of the table. If you're one of the party's front-liners, then your supports and debuffers are often going to be in an even worse situation than you are. At least when it comes to physical combat.
We aren't asking for much. Just that fightmans spend what amounts to a fraction of your paycheck from The Confirmation on a little extra versatility. It is greatly appreciated.
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DR 15 is a thing. We've sat at tables together we could have fought monsters with DR 15. Unless you follow up having a bow with the purchase I have no clue how many different types arrows you would need to bypass DR its not good advice.Bows are generally miss for the amount of trouble you have to go through to make it work after a while. Fly is a better alternative but even then there are hard counters to that.Having even a small chance to hit with a bow is still better than just just standing there with your thumb up your butt.
Nice try at moving goalposts.
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Not to long ago I saw a monster drop two PCs in a single round. Not dead, just bleeding out.
The best part of this? it did it while only having 1HP left. The evoker then dropped it with a minimum damage force missile...
The OTHER best part?
The evoker had "passed" his two earlier rounds because he couldn't use his scorching rays... and he "didn't have anything the monster would notice."
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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That is noted, but I think the point of the thread is expressing frustration for people who don't even go so far as to carry a bow. While DR 15 is a thing, the simple situation of "Circumstances of the fight make it so you cannot melee attack the bad guy at this time" is a lot more likely to come up on its own, especially at low level before the really fun stuff kicks in. Even more so if table assignments set you up with a low magic party.
What tier range are we talking about because part of the confusion is that flight is obtainable as early as level 4? Low level for me is 1-3ish.
EDIT:Also, speaking of being a one trick pony was this combat really that out of range for grease? Something that I know is an issue with my summoner simply because they lack no offensive spells.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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I think a problem with wizards and Fly is that too often they think of what it does to cast it on themselves (i.e. spending the first round of combat casting a spell that'll maybe keep you away from enemies - not that impressive).
I remember when my feather domain druid cast Fly during PaizoCon 2011.
#player1: How can you cast fly as a druid?
#player2: You are casting it on me?
(I might have confused player 1 and 2)
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That is noted, but I think the point of the thread is expressing frustration for people who don't even go so far as to carry a bow. While DR 15 is a thing, the simple situation of "Circumstances of the fight make it so you cannot melee attack the bad guy at this time" is a lot more likely to come up on its own, especially at low level before the really fun stuff kicks in. Even more so if table assignments set you up with a low magic party.
What tier range are we talking about because part of the confusion is that flight is obtainable as early as level 4? Low level for me is 1-3ish.
EDIT:
Also, speaking of being a one trick pony was this combat really that out of range for grease? Something that I know is an issue with my summoner simply because they lack no offensive spells.
Fly is attainable as low as first level. 2 PP gets you a Potion of Flying. Albeit, you seldom need it at that level.
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That is noted, but I think the point of the thread is expressing frustration for people who don't even go so far as to carry a bow. While DR 15 is a thing, the simple situation of "Circumstances of the fight make it so you cannot melee attack the bad guy at this time" is a lot more likely to come up on its own, especially at low level before the really fun stuff kicks in. Even more so if table assignments set you up with a low magic party.
What tier range are we talking about because part of the confusion is that flight is obtainable as early as level 4? Low level for me is 1-3ish.
EDIT:
Also, speaking of being a one trick pony was this combat really that out of range for grease? Something that I know is an issue with my summoner simply because they lack no offensive spells.
Well I've seen encounters in 1-5 where an enemy with a primary ranged attack just cannot be reached in a short amount of time, thanks to the enemy being a flyer or being on the other side of a cliff or simply on high ground. You don't need to be able to fly to deal with that but a fair number of fightmans don't equip themselves for that situation in mind and it's frustrating for the whole table.
Oh, and my idea of low level is 1-5. Past that casters can usually cast every turn, builds have come online, fightmans have more attacks, and skill specialists start to really pull ahead of the dabblers.
Summoners have Summon Monster as a spell like tons of times per day. They're better off than most classes in these kinds of situations.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Because carrying a bow is a bad tactic when you have a caster who can automatically make the check to cast flight. The fact of the matter is that you either built out your character really bizarrely or just forgot to tell everyone at the table to buy a scroll of fly if it needed to come up.
That is noted, but I think the point of the thread is expressing frustration for people who don't even go so far as to carry a bow. While DR 15 is a thing, the simple situation of "Circumstances of the fight make it so you cannot melee attack the bad guy at this time" is a lot more likely to come up on its own, especially at low level before the really fun stuff kicks in. Even more so if table assignments set you up with a low magic party.
What tier range are we talking about because part of the confusion is that flight is obtainable as early as level 4? Low level for me is 1-3ish.
EDIT:
Also, speaking of being a one trick pony was this combat really that out of range for grease? Something that I know is an issue with my summoner simply because they lack no offensive spells.Well I've seen encounters in 1-5 where an enemy with a primary ranged attack just cannot be reached in a short amount of time, thanks to the enemy being a flyer or being on the other side of a cliff or simply on high ground. You don't need to be able to fly to deal with that but a fair number of fightmans don't equip themselves for that situation in mind and it's frustrating for the whole table.
Oh, and my idea of low level is 1-5. Past that casters can usually cast every turn, builds have come online, fightmans have more attacks, and skill specialists start to really pull ahead of the dabblers.
Summoners have Summon Monster as a spell like tons of times per day. They're better off than most classes in these kinds of situations.
Well because Pathfinder Society forces you to divest and not actually be a one trick pony. Rosc and thorin are completely correct. I think Rosc's tactics are really bad given their circumstances but conceptually they are completely correct.I don't see why being a one-trick-pony would be considered a F-word by that many people. That's a problem. Also the unhealthy urge to act when it's perfectly fine to sit back when it's not the character's expertise. If I think I can get some use of a secondary style, good but if a player tries to push me to, it's a casus belli.
There's a lot of different backgrounds there.
Fly is attainable as low as first level. 2 PP gets you a Potion of Flying. Albeit, you seldom need it at that level.
I'm talking about a reliable spell form of it.
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I don't see why being a one-trick-pony would be considered a F-word by that many people. That's a problem. Also the unhealthy urge to act when it's perfectly fine to sit back when it's not the character's expertise. If I think I can get some use of a secondary style, good but if a player tries to push me to, it's a casus belli.
There's a lot of different backgrounds there.
Most of the time, being a one-trick-pony is only harming the player in PFS, i.e. you may get bored or feel frustrated when you run into situations where your trick doesn't work.
However, you occasionally run into encounters where having an ineffective party member can mean the difference between success and failure. I just played Salvation of the Sages and I can verify that having a one trick pony whose trick doesn't work in the final encounter is likely to result in a TPK. You need everyone to be on their A-game for that encounter. This is especially true if the presence of your character at the table is the reason the table is playing high tier instead of low. It is potential situations like this that bother most people about one-trick-ponies (and other forms of ineffective characters).
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Because carrying a bow is a bad tactic when you have a caster who can automatically make the check to cast flight. The fact of the matter is that you either built out your character really bizarrely or just forgot to tell everyone at the table to buy a scroll of fly if it needed to come up.
I think we might be talking in slightly different directions here. To clarify, I wouldn't want people to deviate from their build. I don't want people to have to lose a ton of gold for this, either. I'm mainly saying that everyone should invest a small amount of gold in a reliable ranged weapon as a just-in-case.
I have been in multiple situations where not having even that basic equipment has caused a ton of frustration to that fighter's player or even the entire table.
It is not "bad tactics" to be self sufficient and make sure your combat-focused character can actually participate in combat.
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Slings are free and sling bullets are cheap. I often find that on a Strength-based character, if I don’t want to invest the gold to get a compsite bow, a sling is actually a better option than a Longbow. Say it’s a 20 STR character. 1d4+5 is, to me, a better option than 1d8, and most of the time the enemy isn’t more than 50 feet away. It’s less effective once Iteratives enter the equation, but for low levels I often prefer the sling.
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Darkwood composite longbow with up to 3 strength is 2pp.
If you've got the resource Chakram's are generally even better than javelins and can be sharpened with a whetstone.
Other good options. As are javelins. The point being with the sling that it's basically free.
I've got no problem with specialized characters. I have a few myself. I also, personally, want to avoid being in a situation in combat where my turn is, "I delay, because I can't do anything." So if there are small things I can do to avoid that, then I'm happy to do them.
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I have a few myself. I also, personally, want to avoid being in a situation in combat where my turn is, "I delay, because I can't do anything." So if there are small things I can do to avoid that, then I'm happy to do them.
Some of my buffers run into that problem but most people don't complain when they're walking around with 30 spell levels of buffs.
Or at least they stop after I dismiss the polymorph spell that lets them fly...