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It's not a horrible archtype. But I'd not fully thought through not being able to take burn willingly at the time. If I made another one in the future, I'd be more prepared. And probably go with an element which doesn't heavily rely on burn to make it's elemental defense useful. The aerokinetic elemental defense SUCKS at low levels unless you can pump it up with burn. The fire one... not so much. The fire elemental defense just plain sucks IMO.
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I regret taking that archetype now.
That's a shame. We've had completely opposite experiences with the same thing. Mine just reached 9th level, and I absolutely love her. Maxed social skills is always useful. +20 Fly with only 1 rank. Maxed UMD and Perception.
In combat I totally agree that blast/blast/blast is absolutely dull, but it's effective. More than once I was both the party face and the main damage dealer. If I had instead just stuck with the base Kineticist I'd probably be as bored as you are now with your Overwhelming Soul.
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Well, it's more so that I keep looking at the utility talents and trying to plan ahead. Only to see all these delicious looking abilities. Then noticing they have a burn cost, so I wont be able to use them. Weather control for example. Or kinetic healing. Or extending my air bubble to aid others... Or elemental resistances....
Yeah, the toys I will be able to use are fun. Things like creating grease slicks at will. Or flight. or having stupidly long range with an extended range blast. But I keep seeing these other ones and going "Hell yeah... crap."
That, and we have often have an even better 'face' now. So I get demoted to auto assist support.
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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful Tetori, have two tricks.
1) Bruno grapple.
2) Bruno grapple HARDER.
Brother Sapo, having played once at first level, and never at second, is still an amorphous blob. Sapo, inspired by the handsome, beautiful and altogether admirable Bruno Breakbone, has decided to follow the path of the Tetori.
...
1. Do you have a way to attack at range
2. How are you going to heal yourself if damaged
3. What do you do if a swarm turns up
4. How about if we encounter a shadow
5. We are in a city which was nearly wrecked by plague, who bought an anti plague
6. How are you going to see in the dark
...
Not so much for at the beginning of a session, but I have standard questions for 'at character creation' that tend to get people thinking.
a) What is my PC's primary role/activity in combat?
b) What is my PC's secondary role/activity in combat, when the primary is not applicable?
c) What is my PC's primary role/activity out of combat?
d) What is my PC's secondary role/activity out of combat, when the primary is not applicable?
It seems to help the folks that are only thinking about a).
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Or add the Sharding special ability to one of the swords.Buy more swords... Or a Blinkback Belt.But then he wouldn't have 2 longswords to fight with when he closed to melee range...I have a guy in the runelords game I'm running. He's a 2 weapon fighter (focusing on longsword) with a 15 str and 15 dex. He has weapon focus longsword, so instead of fighting with a longsword and a shortsword giving him a +2/+1 to hit he's using two longswords so he has a +0/+0 to hit, oh and he doesn't have a ranged weapons because it's not a longsword...What about thrown long sword?
Or add it to both of them, and take full advantage of their two weapon fighting at range.
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Expanded element is an automatic. At level 7 you pick an expanded element. Then at a higher level (can't remember which one off hand) you pick a second expanded element.
And how exactly does it delay your infusions? Expanded element is a separate choice from infusions after all. At level 7 you get an expanded element, a 2nd simple blast (depending on initial element and expanded element), and a composite blast. There is no utility or infusion choice at this level to begin with. Only an expanded element.
You wouldn't have gotten another infusion till 9th level anyway. Sure during the playtest you had to chose if you take an expanded element or infusion. But the released class doesn't have this choice.
If anything, it could be said to delay a utility talent since at level 8 you're likely grabbing expanded elemental defense. Which is done as a utility talent.
Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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Or add it to both of them, and take full advantage of their two weapon fighting at range.Or add the Sharding special ability to one of the swords.Buy more swords... Or a Blinkback Belt.But then he wouldn't have 2 longswords to fight with when he closed to melee range...I have a guy in the runelords game I'm running. He's a 2 weapon fighter (focusing on longsword) with a 15 str and 15 dex. He has weapon focus longsword, so instead of fighting with a longsword and a shortsword giving him a +2/+1 to hit he's using two longswords so he has a +0/+0 to hit, oh and he doesn't have a ranged weapons because it's not a longsword...What about thrown long sword?
He bought a bow...of course he critically fumbles (campaign mode so I use the deck/app) and shoots aldern's horse...
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Expanded element is an automatic. At level 7 you pick an expanded element. Then at a higher level (can't remember which one off hand) you pick a second expanded element.
And how exactly does it delay your infusions? Expanded element is a separate choice from infusions after all. At level 7 you get an expanded element, a 2nd simple blast (depending on initial element and expanded element), and a composite blast. There is no utility or infusion choice at this level to begin with. Only an expanded element.
You wouldn't have gotten another infusion till 9th level anyway. Sure during the playtest you had to chose if you take an expanded element or infusion. But the released class doesn't have this choice.
If anything, it could be said to delay a utility talent since at level 8 you're likely grabbing expanded elemental defense. Which is done as a utility talent.
When you get expanded element, you have two options: expand into another element, or specialize in your own element. If you specialize in your own element, you get the other basic blast for your element, and an infusion.
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If you remain single element and expand into your original choice you get to pick either an infusion or utility talent. If you choose this twice, you also get a +1 to saves and CL, as well as attack and damage rolls, of your element abilities. You don't have to pick up a second element, and often picking up a second one is a net negative. How have you missed this?
Except not all elements have a second blast type. Say you're a pyrokinetic. Is being able to do a blue flame blast and having another wild talent really that much better of an option then taking a second element?
By taking a second type as an expanded element you open up even more options. Sure you have to wait a bit longer to get another wild talent. But is this really such a bad deal? You're already going to end up with a glut of infusions and utility talents by level 20. And what infusions were you going to take at level 7 that are so "zomygod I need that NOW" that you can't delay a level or two?
Yes your expanded element delays when you get the higher level options from it. But you will get access to them. Now, I will agree that taking a 3rd type of element can be a waste. But having a second element at level 7 isn't as bad a choice as you claim.
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Not too sure why you think not taking something at level 7 means you'd never be taking it. And Foe Throw doesn't look to be quite the "must have it every time" ability some make it out to be. yeah it looks useful, but IMO kinetic healer is more just good, maybe a little better. And it wouldn't reliably be spammable till level 8 anyway.
Also not convinced that aether is the 'best' element. Yeah it has some nifty tricks, but the other elements do too.
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There is no "best" element of the Five elements in OA. They each have strengths and weaknesses, and which element you like the most is generally a matter of personal preference.
Fire has the strongest blasting (as long as you aren't fighting devils or rhemoraz). Aether has the most versatile utility. Earth has solid blasting and control options, as well as earth glide. Air has haste and unlimited flight, as well as the best range. Water has great control and healing.
Which element you think is best generally just what playstyle you like best. Unless you are are talking about Wood or Void, which are objectively worse than the five core elements.
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Water does arguably have the best (or one of the 2 best) elemental defenses though. Fire's ED is kind of meh. And making the earth or air elemental defenses actually useful costs too much burn.
True, although Earth is always worth the burn cost, and Air is worth it if you are always flying, and as air, you should always be flying.
You need to fill up burn to get the most out of Elemental Overflow, and the defenses are a great way to do that, even if the defenses aren't that good when compared to Aether.
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Personally, I consider the Water defense ability better then the one for Aether. Mostly because one good hit can take down the aether defense, but the water one is always effective. Got no armor? Use it for an armor bonus (+6 possible out of the box). Got armor already? Use it for a shield bonus.
The fire elemental defense sounds freaking awesome at first glance. Till you realize it only works with unarmed and natural weapon attacks. Meaning it only helps if you're being mauled by a bear or slammed by a zombie, for example. By that point it may be too little too late. O.o
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Water does arguably have the best (or one of the 2 best) elemental defenses though. Fire's ED is kind of meh. And making the earth or air elemental defenses actually useful costs too much burn.
As a Geokineticist, you easily get your investment back after a couple of hits.
This past Monday I played the high tier of Captive in Crystal. I took 5 points of burn to get DR 9. In the encounter with the
I took big 6 or 7 hits and was barely left conscious, easily earning back my initial burn investment for the rest of the adventure. (This same encounter left 1 character dead and needing a Breath of Life and another 2 afraid to take AOOs because another hit would drop them.) I have never ever regretted maxing out my DR as Kineticist to start the day.
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Or suggest for a mere 2PP they could get a great bow (Darkwood composite longbow w/ up to +3 STR)
It comes down to taking the teachable moment.
More an once has my rogue (now 18th) fought things he couldn't sneak attack. Never stopped him from attacking, though the abyssal swarms he flung tougher him that perhaps others should use the swarmbane clasp he bought.
Strangely enough that's exactly one of the first things I did with my PFS fighter... :P
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Personally, I consider the Water defense ability better then the one for Aether. Mostly because one good hit can take down the aether defense, but the water one is always effective. Got no armor? Use it for an armor bonus (+6 possible out of the box). Got armor already? Use it for a shield bonus.
The fire elemental defense sounds freaking awesome at first glance. Till you realize it only works with unarmed and natural weapon attacks. Meaning it only helps if you're being mauled by a bear or slammed by a zombie, for example. By that point it may be too little too late. O.o
Water is good, but there are cheap and easy wands with Armor and Shield bonuses to UMD, where DR and Temp HP are harder to come by.
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Yeah,there's the ring of force shield (or is it shielding force). But using it means you can't gather power. And IMO shield potions/wands are a waste. The duration is so short as to not be worth it most times. Then there's the fact that a chain shirt makes mage armor redundant. And the water defense with a couple points of burn taken makes a non-magic chain shirt redundant. Heck, it makes a +2 chain shirt redundant. And that's at level 1.
I'm tinkering with a monk/hydrokineticist build which looks kind of crazy AC wise. Focus on Dex, Con, and Wis. Elemental Defense for armor bonus (switching to shield bonus when you get a good enough bracer of armor), kinetic fist to aid unarmed damage. Plus monk flurry and unarmed damage, of course. Mix in other utilitarian abilities and solid ranged attacks, looks effective on paper.
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Yeah,there's the ring of force shield (or is it shielding force). But using it means you can't gather power. And IMO shield potions/wands are a waste. The duration is so short as to not be worth it most times. Then there's the fact that a chain shirt makes mage armor redundant. And the water defense with a couple points of burn taken makes a non-magic chain shirt redundant. Heck, it makes a +2 chain shirt redundant. And that's at level 1.
I'm tinkering with a monk/hydrokineticist build which looks kind of crazy AC wise. Focus on Dex, Con, and Wis. Elemental Defense for armor bonus (switching to shield bonus when you get a good enough bracer of armor), kinetic fist to aid unarmed damage. Plus monk flurry and unarmed damage, of course. Mix in other utilitarian abilities and solid ranged attacks, looks effective on paper.
Of course, you can just use a buckler. Buckler leaves the hand free, so you can still gather power with one.
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Guess that's where you and I will have to disagree Legio. I can, and do see diverse uses for a lot of the powers. Some are extremely focused, that's true. But aether doesn't hold a monopoly on having diverse utility to the clever player. Nor does is it the single most versatile element. Each element has different areas they focus on, true. And some like fire are a lot more limited in options. But they all have a wide range of situations where they are useful.
"kinetic healer(sp): save: none SR: yes 1 pt. burn to self or target to heal = blast damage".....umm....pretty sure blast damage goes up ever odd level....outstrips a CLW potion/wand at any level past 1st.
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"kinetic healer(sp): save: none SR: yes 1 pt. burn to self or target to heal = blast damage".....umm....pretty sure blast damage goes up ever odd level....outstrips a CLW potion/wand at any level past 1st.
Congratulations on a 2 year necro to respond to someone who hasn't posted on the boards in 10 months.
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Wow! I can't believe this old rant of mine was necro'd after 2 years.
That said, I still do run into too many of these 'problem players' in my opinion.
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Wow! I can't believe this old rant of mine was necro'd after 2 years.
That said, I still do run into too many of these 'problem players' in my opinion.
It's still a fairly evergreen topic.
One thing that steams my hams is when we have a whole gaggle of fightmans at the table and not one bothered to pick up a ranged weapon. In one particular scenario, we were fighting a monster with a longbow and a fly speed and the majority of the party was powerless to do anything. Between our inquisitor, our fighter, and our other fighter, none of them could do anything. We eventually took it down thanks to my summoner handing off his crossbow while the eidolon got mulched trying to distract him, but it was way more of a slog than it had any right to be.
I'm seriously considering writing up gold/weight costs for "cover your bases" loadouts and handing them to new/stubborn players. Heck, my Exchange character is going to buy a lot of those items and carry them in her carriage.
I really don't want to be in another frustrating situation like that again.
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Bows are generally miss for the amount of trouble you have to go through to make it work after a while. Fly is a better alternative but even then there are hard counters to that.
I mean don't get we wrong if you have Fly more power to you. But ideally you can have both!
Heck, with the kinds of armor check penalties you see on your average fightman and the obnoxious rules for not being able to put ranks into the Fly skill, I would say that at any table where the GM doesn't hand waive the flying rules it might still be better to have a bow/javelins and stay landbound.
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As a caster I find that I do the most damage making sure that our melee can melee, either by turning them into something that can fly or if i feel boring the fly spell directly. I had 3 set2 of gryphon mane pajamas (monks robes) and 3 +1 to fly ioun stones, which I hand out to the party melee.
Soon I'll be able to add airwalk to the repertoire.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I think a problem with wizards and Fly is that too often they think of what it does to cast it on themselves (i.e. spending the first round of combat casting a spell that'll maybe keep you away from enemies - not that impressive).
But in many cases, casting Fly on the fighter is as good as casting Haste. It's a really good buff for casters to cast on melee allies. Getting to difficult to access enemies, or even just the plain boost in movement speed, makes it versatile. I think Haste is only better when you start giving multiple people high-quality full attacks with it. If you have 1-2 martials in the party Fly might be a safer bet. Sending the barbarian into melee with Fly will probably do more than hasting him to shoot more arrows.