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I still have some crayon-colored dice.
All the dice I got when I first played just had indentations for the numbers, no ink or paint in them. So I would run through them with pencil to make them more readable (except for the black d8 I had). But, yes, also, I'd use red crayon for the low numbers on my d20s so I could tell them from the high numbers, because two-digit numbers weren't a thing on dice.
Ha! I have a few of the old crayon orange and red dice, though they have white paint inside the numbers so they can be read, ahh, memories (those original black box dice still roll well, even 25 years later!)
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I came in pretty late. I actually got a crayon to color in the dice so you could tell high from low. The dice didn't survive though, they became spheres and then gremlins would frequently take them away. I'm still not sure why.
I had a new player at a table with those borrowed from their friend. We were about halfway through the second fight before i noticed the barbarians impossibly bad luck
LOL, i know why, it seems a proven fact, crayon colored dice only bond to one person, and spurn all others (anytime a friend or other player uses those dice of mine, they roll poorly, seems it must be a thing)
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LOL, i know why, it seems a proven fact, crayon colored dice only bond to one person, and spurn all others (anytime a friend or other player uses those dice of mine, they roll poorly, seems it must be a thing)
Well, it was more a matter of the player only being able to roll as high as a nine, since neither myself nor that player were familiar with a red blue thing that had long ago vanished into the sands of time.
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Chits?! We stabbed ourselves with our pencils and the random blood drops was our roll!You had chits? You didn't just pick numbers and depending on how close your number was to the GM's, that's how successful you were?You had tupperware? We used teacups...Just so you're aware, in the real old days there were no D10's. The first polyhedral dice sets were D4, D6, D8, D12 and D20 (although tbh the D20 was numbered 0 to 9 twice so it sort of was a D10).Dice? If only we'd been so fortunate. We had to settle for numbered chits in tiny Tupperware bowls!
Wait, people don't still do this? Nobody tell my players, please?
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I came in pretty late. I actually got a crayon to color in the dice so you could tell high from low. The dice didn't survive though, they became spheres and then gremlins would frequently take them away. I'm still not sure why.I hated those dice. But they were a step up from the chits while they lasted.
I still got some of those dice, lol
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James, if you haven't talked to them yet, see if you can get them in at another gameday/venue in your area if you have one. It might help if you can find some like (ish) minded people for them to murderhobo with.
If they are as bad as you guys say...
1. I wouldnt suggest just asking them to switch venues, unless you want that venue to suffer like the firt one has.
2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :P
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2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :P
Just a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
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2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :PJust a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
I don't understand your post in the context of this thread.
PvP has not been mentioned, at all.
There has been no hint of such action, at all.
And there have been multiple statements that, despite serious effort, this couple is unwilling to listen or learn, with excuses like, "I've been gaming since before you were born."
So, this section of the posts was someone suggesting trying them at a different venue, with like-minded players, and a response that that would make TPKs even more likely, since the players/PCs in question, despite saying that they are just there for combat and rolling the dice, aren't terribly effective at the murderhobo business.
For a quick recap:
One of them plays a ranged rogue who runs away when injured; and the other plays a druid with an animal companion who claims to be the party healer, but who concentrates their actions and spells on buffing their AC, and doesn't heal anyone else.
Without a strong system mastery, ranged rogues are one attack wonders, who then become fairly ineffective for the remainder of any combat. Hopefully, at least, he isn't playing the halfling rogue who spends the first three rounds of any combat sneaking around to get into 30' of a single target to, finally, get a single crossbow shot off during the entire combat. I played a game with that rogue, and, for most of the scenario, it felt like we had a vacancy instead of the fourth PC.
And, honestly, Druids are fair as out-of-combat healers, since they can use wands, but they are not very effective as in-combat healers, since they can only use memorized Cure spells, not spontaneously cast them, nor do they have anything comparable to a Cleric's Channel Energy ability. And then, insist no one else can play an actual Cleric because they are the party healer? Riiiiight.
As a result, that PC remained a rogue, but became human, and plain vanilla. He has done much better, since, but has run into issues with being a rogue.
Now, he is in the higher tiers, being 9th level, and is starting to see other issues with being a rogue, as any scenario leaning on dealing with a bunch of Barbarians pretty much neuters his damage output.
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2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :PJust a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
Pretty sure Seth's saying that their awful characters are more likely to be killed by the scenario, than to do the murderhobo-ing themselves. Thus they're more likely to be murderhobo'd than to murderhobo. He's not actually advocating PVP.
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Pretty sure Seth's saying that their awful characters are more likely to be killed by the scenario, than to do the murderhobo-ing themselves. Thus they're more likely to be murderhobo'd than to murderhobo. He's not actually advocating PVP.
2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :PJust a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
With *that* kind of explanation, it makes sense. The shorthand used made it sound like I'd thought initially.
Though, if death-vagrants are slaughtered by the proper denziens of a given place, have they really been death-vagranted? Or have they been demise-homed?
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I will now suggest some inappropriate locations for dealing with problem players.
1) Meat processing plants.
2) Deep, cold rivers.
3) Cement mixers.
4) Corn fields.
5) Construction sights.
...list continues...
6) Weather decks of naval vessels
7) Sewage treatment facilities
8) Tops of very tall buildings
9) Middle of a busy highway during the evening commute
10) Balers
11) Trash compactors
12) Wood Chippers
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Pretty sure Seth's saying that their awful characters are more likely to be killed by the scenario, than to do the murderhobo-ing themselves. Thus they're more likely to be murderhobo'd than to murderhobo. He's not actually advocating PVP.
2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :PJust a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
With *that* kind of explanation, it makes sense. The shorthand used made it sound like I'd thought initially.
Though, if death-vagrants are slaughtered by the proper denziens of a given place, have they really been death-vagranted? Or have they been demise-homed?
Yes, what UndeadMitch said.
13. Hog trough
2. Sounds like their characters are more like get-murderhobo'ed, since theyve been a part of multiple tpks. :PJust a gentle reminder that PvP is against PFS rules, and hinting or suggesting that someone's characters could face this sort of fate for inexperience or poor social skills is very much not cool.
Let's help folks learn, grow, and become better people and gamers. It is possible!
It's almost like these problem players have found a backdoor method to PvP, having caused several TPKs...
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You guys are certainly a helpful bunch, aren't you?
BTW, I am likely old enough to be a sweet granddad and not a child, thank you.. :)
At this point the main issue of the thread has been addressed and the VO of the area is working on fixing the situation.
If off-topic or tangentially-related topics in a thread bother you, I suggest you dont read the thread, as they are the nature of the internet.
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You are likely correct Seth but I am hopeful to see what the resolution is so having to shift through all the non-related posts does get a little tiresome.
One of the reasons this thread is of interest to me is because I too played D&D in my youth and just now returning to pen-and-paper so I can empathize with this couple.
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Considering this isn't a closed topic and we are still awaiting the results I also agree these posts should be cleaned up by moderators. It bothers me that this has to happen so frequently. Just make an Off-topic forum thread and call it PFS banter or something.
Moderators don't usually delete off topic posts. Not sure I'd want to participate on a forum where just a little bit of fun gets moderated either.
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Please don't drag this down into an optimization/roleplay false dichotomy thread.
It didn't seem like that was the issue in this scenario? It doesn't take *much* to move from sub-optimal to decent without being the best of the best.
Also, G? With that apparent sort of ego-display, it might make entrenched folks dig in a bit more and hold the line rather than explore options?
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Considering this isn't a closed topic and we are still awaiting the results I also agree these posts should be cleaned up by moderators. It bothers me that this has to happen so frequently. Just make an Off-topic forum thread and call it PFS banter or something.Moderators don't usually delete off topic posts. Not sure I'd want to participate on a forum where just a little bit of fun gets moderated either.
I cannot imagine the Rules Forum without a succubus in a grapple in it.
Probably should've taken the guy aside after the first incident, but I guess hindsight is 20/20.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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ccgfarmer,
I'm sure that worked to drive away the problem player. I'm sure that sort of experience would drive anybody away. But it also probably gave him a bad impression of the exclusionary gaming group. Maybe he has friends, or an on-line presence. If so, I'll bet that you lost a couple of good players who will believe him when he says he had a miserable experience.
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Life experience chiming in here from work
It used to be that you'd have to find ten 'good' reviews to make up for every 'bad' review.
With the advent of the Internet, the vocal minority has skewed even more dramatically, and now *one* person can have the effective voting strength of two hundred.
We may have six hundred customers in a day (that's an exceptionally conservative estimate, major grocery chain store).
Out of those, we may receive ten 'feedback' reports (You know the type, the ones at the bottom of the receipt saying 'tell us how we're doing'?).
Now a customer has a negative experience and by GOD they're going to let everyone know. So one of those 'feedback' reports is going to be scathingly negative.
Perception is crucial.
When the only feedback that the office is getting is negative, and someone is wound up over being mistreated (whether it's a natural consequence of their actions or not), the immediate onus falls not on the aggrieved party -- obviously not, they took the time to fill out the survey, after all -- but on us in the retail establishment to 'make things right'.
And that's if the individual in question is responding 'in-house' via the method of survey feedback.
It's just as easy to hop on a blog, website, forum, etc, and blast a company and do even MORE damage.
While a group may feel 'great' for having dealt with a problem player by 'driving them off', it not only gives a bad impression, but it serves as negative advertising for the next event in the venue. And that does NOT go away.
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Story time
This sounds a little passive-aggressive myself, but I guess you all got what you wanted. However, most would agree bad behavior is better handled out of the game. It can often save a lot of grief and hard feelings. Not everyone has the same expectations or plays the game the same way. Its not my/our place to tell you how to handle issues in your lodge, but if the description is 100% accurate, there may have been some better ways to approach the player that could have saved the relationship. YMMV
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ccgfarmer,
I'm sure that worked to drive away the problem player. I'm sure that sort of experience would drive anybody away. But it also probably gave him a bad impression of the exclusionary gaming group. Maybe he has friends, or an on-line presence. If so, I'll bet that you lost a couple of good players who will believe him when he says he had a miserable experience.
As opposed to destroying an entire lodge? Game rules need to be enforced, if people don't want to make skill checks or whatever, there needs to be consequences. That was the point of this entire thread actually.
When you don't let these players cheat and ignore rules, they leave on their own eventually.
I don't agree with other players not healing this individual (if he brings his own wand of CLW), I think that is malicious and he does have a grievance (it ignores the PF rule to cooperate and is jerk behavior). However, with regards to hiding, I'm pretty sure that this individual did the same thing a number of other times and the group DID help him out. Finally they said 'no'. This is what happens.
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I believe it is important for everyone, not just the GM, to speak up and talk to players who are "bad". If someone feels they were treated poorly than there is very little I can do to change that except to cave to their wishes.
Problem Players are bullies in their own way but it is important not to be a bully back.
A difficult situation. Shows that PFS is, first and foremost, a social game. And just like society at large, there are going to be people who just don't want to follow the same rules the rest of us do.
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I find that problem players are selfish.
This selfishness corrodes and destroys the communal nature of gaming.
This is why the community needs to police itself so that bad actors have a chance to choose to change or to leave.
It has to be more than just 'police'.
It has to be a proactive outreach to bring others 'on board'.
Reactive 'police' adjustments are part of the corrosion indicated here. " 'x' player is being a jerk for 'y' action, therefore we should perform 'z' action in response/retaliation."
The hardest thing in any social environment is 'bringing the horse to water and getting to want to drink on it's own', so to speak.
It's difficult, to say the least, but we should try to anticipate the needs of our fellow gamers, and mark out the boundaries of reasonable behaviour. If we've laid out the cards on the table, the rules have been posted, everyone understands that gaming is a *privilege* not a right, then a polite and affirming society can form from that.
How can this be done, without sacrificing personal health, enjoyment, and community is probably one of the hardest tasks a person could manage.
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...And there have been multiple statements that, despite serious effort, this couple is unwilling to listen or learn, with excuses like, "I've been gaming since before you were born." So....
I keep seeing this. I tried to ignore it, but the grammar nazi in me feels someone is being maligned unjustly. The post actually says
... with “They have been playing this game longer then I have been alive and they know what they are doing.” It seems....
My emphasis. It isn't the couple making this claim, it is someone else. A third person. Maybe they have made the claim, but that is not in the information we have been given.
I still have crayoned d20 & d4s, I use it mostly when newbies are at the table. :)