Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
Perception and UMD are the only skills you need. If you're paying the combat expertise tax, you can afford to get acrobatics or intimidate, too. :P
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NPC statblocks are already full of Personal spell potions - flip through the NPC Codex some time. You'll see potions of Mirror Image, Longstrider, Disguise Self, See Invisibility...
I've never been sure whether to remove these, treat them as unique elixirs, or what.
Ummm... Yeah NPC taken from official Paizo module
Take a scroll down to the combat gear, and you'll see a "potion of see invisibility." The link goes right to the potions section of the rules, but there isn't an actual listing for that potion, because, technically, it isn't supposed to exist. So... apparently the devs are saying you can't make that potion because f@$~ you I said so, but I can make that potion for my NPCs because f@$~ you twice?!
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I think the actual reason is that 3.0 designers didn't want martials to be able to drink potions of true strike.
Many years ago, Monte Cook wrote a review of D&D 3.5, and as an aside, he mentioned that the limitation on potions was entirely a flavor decision, not a question of balance. Even Summon Monster I works as a potion. (Bottled creatures. Weird, but not game-breaking.)
NPC statblocks are already full of Personal spell potions - flip through the NPC Codex some time. You'll see potions of Mirror Image, Longstrider, Disguise Self, See Invisibility...
I've never been sure whether to remove these, treat them as unique elixirs, or what.
Ummm... Yeah NPC taken from official Paizo module
Take a scroll down to the combat gear, and you'll see a "potion of see invisibility." The link goes right to the potions section of the rules, but there isn't an actual listing for that potion, because, technically, it isn't supposed to exist. So... apparently the devs are saying you can't make that potion because f@$~ you I said so, but I can make that potion for my NPCs because f@$~ you twice?!
Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I think it should perhaps be an FAQ and an official errata. If the NPC codex is full of situations like this... It clearly shows the devs don't have a problem with potions like this existing. Interestingly the potion of see invisibility is exactly the potion I want...
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It shows that the specific dev(s) who wrote the stat-blocks in question:
Forgot that personal spells couldn't be made into potions
Forgot that the spell in question was a personal spell
Or remembered but didn't care
I don't think we can say which it is.
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There are a bunch of ways around this issue, honestly.
Alchemist infusions have been mentioned.
Some of them are available through things like the various Cloaks of the Apprentices.
Use a Spell Storing item to hold it until needed.
Example: Vibrant purple prism Ioun stone, flawed, can hold a single level of spell. This spell can be True Strike, Shield, CLW, etc.
Hand of Glory gives the wearer see invisibility and daylight as once/day casts.
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It shows that the specific dev(s) who wrote the stat-blocks in question:
Forgot that personal spells couldn't be made into potions
Forgot that the spell in question was a personal spell
Or remembered but didn't careI don't think we can say which it is.
Regardless, if an official Pathfinder "monster" book has enough examples of these potions being used, it shows a complete disregard for RAW. I mean, if we just pull up one stat block of an official Paizo NPC and ask, why is there a potion of see invisibility in this stat block when such potions can't exist? There's likely to be enough FAQ buttons tapped that something will be done about it. Even if they have to errata all those potions out of the book, I'd still count that as something accomplished.
Potion of shield cannot be made. Game balance issues.
Do the same issues exist for potion of see invisible?
Regardless, if an official Pathfinder "monster" book has enough examples of these potions being used, it shows a complete disregard for RAW. I mean, if we just pull up one stat block of an official Paizo NPC and ask, why is there a potion of see invisibility in this stat block when such potions can't exist? There's likely to be enough FAQ buttons tapped that something will be done about it. Even if they have to errata all those potions out of the book, I'd still count that as something accomplished.It shows that the specific dev(s) who wrote the stat-blocks in question:
Forgot that personal spells couldn't be made into potions
Forgot that the spell in question was a personal spell
Or remembered but didn't careI don't think we can say which it is.
Then do that?
Pardon the noobness, but where can I find the rule that potions can't be made for personal/you spells?
I'm just wondering what the rationale is, if anyone knows, why potions cannot be made of spells with a personal range, or "you" as the target. I mean, potions are personal you are the one drinking the liquid...?
Is this just legend stuff, hangover from 3.5? Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon and have Paizo put an errata in unchained to take away that limitation? Potions are already limited to level 3 spells and under, it certainly wouldn't be game breaking to let them have a potion of See Invisibility, now would it?
Presumably it's because Paizo doesn't want fighters, rangers, paladins, rogues etc.. to go walking around with stacks of shield spells or other comparatively powerful buffs that are usually in the personal spell category.
A potion of shield would be cheap enough that the average character of this type would be carrying a bag full of them. and have the equivalent of a +3 floating shield on demand.
Pardon the noobness, but where can I find the rule that potions can't be made for personal/you spells?Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.You can find it by going here and scrolling down.
Thank you!
Oh no doubt. Every barbarian (hell everyone really) would be two handing and gain 4 shield ac. No question.
Would they?
I mean sure it is nice , but it only lasts mins/lvl , will every barb spend the action to drink every combat?
But would you prefer to chug a potion of shield or one of enlarge person? Same cost, one is legal and (IMHO) more effective.
FWIW, IMC there's a feat Brew Elixir that gets round all these restrictions (double cost) and allows any spell level. Prereqs CL 9, Craft (Alchemy) 5 rank or Knowledge (Nature) 7 ranks, Brew Potion.
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Maybe we should bring back the potion miscibility table from 1e. That might stop potion spam.
I find that bringing things back from an earlier edition generally makes people appreciate that they no longer play said edition.
Actually Alchemist infusions are called out in the FAQ. Apparently being able to hand out "True Strike" and other extracts is a loophole.
Alchemist and infusions: Can I use the infusion discovery to create an infused extract of a personal-range formula (such as true strike), which someone else can drink?
Yes, you can. The design team may decide to close this loophole in the next printing of the Advanced Player's Guide.
I don't think Infusions should be considered a loophole however. They're more affiliated with Spells than Potions. The Alchemist did spend the discovery to do so after all, and making it so would add to the uniqueness of that discovery.
True Strike as a potion is just one problem child. Digging through some of those NPCs statblocks, I found one particular perpetrator with a potion of Glibness.
Yeah, um, no.
Is True Strike as a potion really a problem? You sacrifice a round and a potion for the sake of getting one hit. Most martials can land a hit most of the time just by attacking.
No more of a problem than a use-activated sword of true strike. :P
I'll take two of those please...
I think Zenogu brought up a nice point , people keep talking like the martials are the ones winning here , but honestly i find that there usually are plenty of spells even other casters cant access because of this rule.
If this is possible for example , potions of glibness among others would be more than welcome to me lols.
Your fighters have a lot more skill points than mine, I think.These days when a fighter wants shield and true strike they just abuse UMD and carry wands. The potion thing is only a limitation to low level martial characters. Past about 6th level it isn't any kind of hindrance to accessing the spell effects they want.
House Ruling that limitation on potions away wont affect your game much.
That book even includes a Fighter Archetype specialized in UMD and coaxing special effects from magic items.
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It's not about true strike. It's about things like glibness, beast shape, divine favor, shield, etc.
It's not about true strike. It's about things like glibness, beast shape, divine favor, shield, etc.
...Why are any of those even remotely problematic? Those sound like *exactly* the sort of things that potions should be doing. Divine Favor is kind of thematically odd, I guess. But it seems kind of ridiculous that you could create a potion of Fireball, but not Glibness.
No more of a problem than a use-activated sword of true strike. :P
That's 1800gp, right?
It's not about true strike. It's about things like glibness, beast shape, divine favor, shield, etc.
Precisely. Personal spells are much more powerful/useful than other spells of their level. Ones like the Polymorphs, Moment of Prescience, Divine Power, and Channel Vigor. Personal Spells are designed with a restriction in mind, in that you must be that class in order to gain regular access to it.
Other bizarre potions would include Disguise Self, Alter Self, and Arcane Sight.
Potions can be used by anyone . No investment or skill required.
Personal Spells on Scrolls/wands/staves? Legit. They have requirements. If its on your list, then it isn't anything you wouldn't be able to do anyway. If not, then that's what UMD is for.
But again, potions require no particular skill or expenditure, other than gold (which everything does).
I put an elixir of polymorph in The Cleaves. It turns you into a squirrel for a brief period of time. So, elixir of shield?
If we give fighters elixirs of shield, will they all shut up about how the Fighter Magic User thing?
I put an elixir of polymorph in The Cleaves. It turns you into a squirrel for a brief period of time. So, elixir of shield?
If we give fighters elixirs of shield, will they all shut up about how the Fighter Magic User thing?
Elixers of Shield that they can't get without Casters.
Disparity lives on.
I put an elixir of polymorph in The Cleaves. It turns you into a squirrel for a brief period of time. So, elixir of shield?
If we give fighters elixirs of shield, will they all shut up about how the Fighter Magic User thing?
Nope , they will never shut up about it.
Hehehe neither will they change class ofc :P.
I put an elixir of polymorph in The Cleaves. It turns you into a squirrel for a brief period of time. So, elixir of shield?
If we give fighters elixirs of shield, will they all shut up about how the Fighter Magic User thing?
Elixers of Shield that they can't get without Casters.
Disparity lives on.
They can buy them or find them in dungeons. Miscellaneous magic items are more expensive or slightly rarer, but still perfectly rules legal.