Bard: Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/6 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.
When searching for discussions about this matter the bonus is always referred as being "+1/2 level higher" - although none these threads is very recent... When did this get nerfed? Did they do some other downscaling too?
Bard: Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/6 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.When searching for discussions about this matter the bonus is always referred as being "+1/2 level higher" - although none these threads is very recent... When did this get nerfed? Did they do some other downscaling too?
Same change for Oracle class.
Elves had something similar for Oracle also, also got changed to 1/6.
Advanced Race guide maybe?
Yes, it was the second edition of the ARG released on July 29, 2015.
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Many seem to agree the change was heavy handed. 1/4 progression would have felt more appropriate.
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Agreed.
I agree too. 1/2 was way OP, but 1/6 makes it very unappealing for low-level games... though I've never played past level 10 so I really don't know..
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I had a character with a capped AC with the old 1/2 way and by the time It had been fixed, I was still capped. So in practice at high level (14th to 18th level), it doesn't matter which is used (1/2 or 1/6).
All that does matter is levels under 10th, and frankly that is where it probably should matter.
I had a character with a capped AC with the old 1/2 way and by the time It had been fixed, I was still capped. So in practice at high level (14th to 18th level), it doesn't matter which is used (1/2 or 1/6).
All that does matter is levels under 10th, and frankly that is where it probably should matter.
This. I'm playing a bard in Plunder & Peril in a few weeks and it's only levels 4-7. Well, the favored option has SOME effect, because I do get the bonus for Inspire Courage at 6th level, which is nice. If I choose to go that route.
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I had a character with a capped AC with the old 1/2 way and by the time It had been fixed, I was still capped. So in practice at high level (14th to 18th level), it doesn't matter which is used (1/2 or 1/6).
All that does matter is levels under 10th, and frankly that is where it probably should matter.
James, for some of the uses, the 1/6th moves it from useful to only in a blue moon, until 12th level.
Aasimar/Elf FCB for Oracle, +1/6th to a Revelation.
Oracle of Life, Channel Energy Revelation
No effect until 6th level, where you get an extra d6, until you reach 7th level, at which point it stops doing anything again, except for an extra/early die on even levels instead of one level later, until 12th level, where you gain the extra die every level.
So, unlike an extra hit point or skill point, which is useful all the time, this modified version of the FCB makes it so that, from levels 1-5, it gives no benefit. From 6-11, it gives a benefit for 3 of those levels, then, finally, at 12th level, it gives a consistent minor benefit.
Channeling, of course, is probably the Revelation hurt hardest by this. Unless thee is a Revelation that gives Sneak Attack, which would have the exact same progression....
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this modified version of the FCB makes it so that, from levels 1-5, it gives no benefit. From 6-11, it gives a benefit for 3 of those levels, then, finally, at 12th level, it gives a consistent minor benefit.
Yes, I concur that does seem to be what it does now. I also think that is probably as it should be.
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this modified version of the FCB makes it so that, from levels 1-5, it gives no benefit. From 6-11, it gives a benefit for 3 of those levels, then, finally, at 12th level, it gives a consistent minor benefit.Yes, I concur that does seem to be what it does now. I also think that is probably as it should be.
It is what it does, but I disagree, in at least the Channel Energy point, in that it makes any other FCB seem useful.
1 skill point per level? Benefit, right out of the box.
1 hit point per level? Benefit, right out of the box.
1/6th of a Rogue Talent or equivalent? No immediate benefit, but once you get that 6 6th, it becomes a permanent, consistent, benefit.
For Channel Energy? No benefit for 11 levels, except for 3 levels during that time. That, sir, is both inconsistent and only a little more useful than Magical Knack for a single class spellcaster.
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Kinevon, you assume that a FCB that increase revelations or bardic performances should be equally beneficial for all kinds of revelations or bardic performances. instead, as usual, some abilities benefit more from it, other less.
You are essentially asking to increase the benefit for for the abilities that benefit more from it because some other ability benefit less. To me it seem like saying "my 3/4 BAB magus benefit less from power attack than a 1/1 paladin, so power attack should be increased to -1/+3 when using a 1 handed weapon". Sure, the lower BAB magus will benefit from that, but the higher BAB character will benefit even more.
This kills the FCB. For example, if you chose Inspire Courage:
1-5: FCB does nothing.
6: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Move Action instead of a Standard Action, one level early.
7-9: FCB does nothing.
10: You reach Inspire Courage +3, one level early.
11: FCB does nothing.
12: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Swift Action instead of a Move Action.
13-14: FCB does nothing.
15: You reach Inspire Courage +4, two levels early.
16+: FCB does nothing.
So in your whole adventuring career, the only times in which this FCB actually does anything at all are at level 6, 10, 12, and 15. The rest of the time it does literally nothing.
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This kills the FCB. For example, if you chose Inspire Courage:
1-5: FCB does nothing.
6: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Move Action instead of a Standard Action, one level early.
7-9: FCB does nothing.
10: You reach Inspire Courage +3, one level early.
11: FCB does nothing.
12: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Swift Action instead of a Move Action.
13-14: FCB does nothing.
15: You reach Inspire Courage +4, two levels early.
16+: FCB does nothing.So in your whole adventuring career, the only times in which this FCB actually does anything at all are at level 6, 10, 12, and 15. The rest of the time it does literally nothing.
Counter argument: I take 6 levels of bard and then a prestige class that don't increase the speed of my bardic performance. 6 levels of the FCB and I can start it as a Move instead of as a Standard for my whole career.
YMMV depending on what you do, as with all FCB.
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Kinevon, you assume that a FCB that increase revelations or bardic performances should be equally beneficial for all kinds of revelations or bardic performances. instead, as usual, some abilities benefit more from it, other less.
You are essentially asking to increase the benefit for for the abilities that benefit more from it because some other ability benefit less. To me it seem like saying "my 3/4 BAB magus benefit less from power attack than a 1/1 paladin, so power attack should be increased to -1/+3 when using a 1 handed weapon". Sure, the lower BAB magus will benefit from that, but the higher BAB character will benefit even more.
No, I assume a Favored Class Bonus should provide a Bonus, preferably one that, across the board, is actually both a Bonus and relatively consistent.
If you spend your FCB on skill points or hit points, you get the benefit for every level from that FCB. If you spend it on eventually acquiring a more powerful option, like a Rogue Talent, once you get the talent, it provides its benefit for the rest of your adventuring career.
Now, for some of the options for FCB, not only does it take a significant investment with no return to begin with, like the Human Rogue FCB, but then the benefit provided is only provided intermittently, rather than being an actual benefit for the rest of your career.
Oracle of Life:
1-5: No benefit
6, 8, 10: +1d6 Channel
7, 9, 11: No benefit
12-17: +1d6 Channel
18: +2d6 Channel (+1d6 if Channel caps at CL19)
19: +1d6 Channel (again) or nothing if Channel caps at CL19
20: +2d6 Channel or nothing if Channel caps at CL19
Bard:
See Athaleon's post, but it is inconsistent, and irregular.
See, the benefit from the FCB needs to be consistent, not irregular. Once it kicks in, it should remain "kicked in" from then on, in some fashion.
This kills the FCB. For example, if you chose Inspire Courage:
1-5: FCB does nothing.
6: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Move Action instead of a Standard Action, one level early.
7-9: FCB does nothing.
10: You reach Inspire Courage +3, one level early.
11: FCB does nothing.
12: You can now start Inspire Courage as a Swift Action instead of a Move Action.
13-14: FCB does nothing.
15: You reach Inspire Courage +4, two levels early.
16+: FCB does nothing.So in your whole adventuring career, the only times in which this FCB actually does anything at all are at level 6, 10, 12, and 15. The rest of the time it does literally nothing.
Counter argument: I take 6 levels of bard and then a prestige class that don't increase the speed of my bardic performance. 6 levels of the FCB and I can start it as a Move instead of as a Standard for my whole career.
YMMV depending on what you do, as with all FCB.
Just about everyone will get vanishingly little mileage out of this FCB.
Any subpar item can be made to be useful given a contrived enough situation. If someone decides to Prestige Class, and if that Prestige Class doesn't stack with Bard progression, and if it's more worthwhile to get this FCB instead of putting it into HP or Skills (or Spells Known, if Scion of Humanity Aasimar can take Human FCBs) and just taking the seventh Bard level. If, if, if, and these are some hefty assumptions here.
Kinevon, you assume that a FCB that increase revelations or bardic performances should be equally beneficial for all kinds of revelations or bardic performances. instead, as usual, some abilities benefit more from it, other less.
Well, Let me condense that a little. I assume "a FCB that increase revelations or bardic performances should be [snip] beneficial". For quite a few "revelations or bardic performances", that really isn't true anymore. The 1/6 change is a bit past the cost/benefit curve for the majority options in my opinion.
A FCB shouldn't be a worse option that just taking the default hp or skill point. For me, this option now fails to do so.
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Counter argument: I take 6 levels of bard and then a prestige class that don't increase the speed of my bardic performance. 6 levels of the FCB and I can start it as a Move instead of as a Standard for my whole career.
YMMV depending on what you do, as with all FCB.
Diego, since classes and their related benefits are, normally, written from the POV of being a single classed entity, this is not anywhere near what the intentions of any FCB were supposed to be.
The devs have stated that some of the ideas that have been introduced into the game have been mistakes and they are taking steps to reduce those options through errata and limit them for new classes. Extra class feature feats are one such option. Racial FCBs are another.
The problem with that is the cats been out of the bag for a while. Stopping new classes from getting the "Extra class feature feats" just makes new classes second class ones. For me, the chipping away at things through errata is annoying and the wrong way to do it. If something was a mistake, toss it. Don't make it so bad as to make it not worth taking as that just makes it a waste of space.
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Any class ability that has gated jumps in power is going to be unevenly affected by any ability that bumps your effective level by less than the threshold of a jump - if some thing goes up every 5 levels, even being 4 levels higher for purposes of that ability is useless at some levels. Only by being effectively 5 levels higher will you see consistent benefits.
So these FCB are bad for class abilities that jump in power every few levels - ok, so don't take them. Heck, there are a lot of racial FCBs that are just bad. I'm not fond of +1 spell known for spellbook classes, for example. Rather have the hp/skill point.
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So these FCB are bad for class abilities that jump in power every few levels - ok, so don't take them. Heck, there are a lot of racial FCBs that are just bad. I'm not fond of +1 spell known for spellbook classes, for example. Rather have the hp/skill point.
It depends on the game. If you don't have ready access to buy scrolls, and are stuck with your two spells/level and maybe looted spellbooks, then it can be as good as it is for spontaneous casters.
Bard: Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/6 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.When searching for discussions about this matter the bonus is always referred as being "+1/2 level higher" - although none these threads is very recent... When did this get nerfed? Did they do some other downscaling too?
A lot of fcb, including virtually all of the Aasimar ones got hit with a big nerf bat because admittedly.... they were good enough to be must choices.
At the risk of bringing back a months-old thread, I've a question about the bard use of the Aasimar FCB. In the thread, one action used to start the performance is assumed to be affected by the FCB. Is this accurate? The FCB says it works on the effects of the performance.
Indeed, the FCB alters only the effect of a chosen performance, rather than altering anything about how Bardic Performance itself works. So FCB: Inspire Courage nets you a +1 at exactly one level before 15.
At the risk of bringing back a months-old thread, I've a question about the bard use of the Aasimar FCB. In the thread, one action used to start the performance is assumed to be affected by the FCB. Is this accurate? The FCB says it works on the effects of the performance.Indeed, the FCB alters only the effect of a chosen performance, rather than altering anything about how Bardic Performance itself works. So FCB: Inspire Courage nets you a +1 at exactly one level before 15.
It's even more worthless than I thought. Shame I can't edit my previous post.