So, I need some help with the rules & pricing for adjusting a magic weapon.
I'm currently constructing an adaptation of the lead character from Samuari Jack and selected the Blade of the Sword-Saint.
Now, I'm a little confused what the cost would be to upgrade it, I'm thinking with both the Bane (Outsider: Evil) & Holy enchantments.
Any advice?
The base sword is effectively +5, which is 50,000 gold. This means its other properties (i.e. the Monk stuff) are 25,000 gold in price.
If you were to upgrade it to what is effectively a +8 (Bane is +1, Holy is +2), the price would increase to 128,000 in properties, plus the 25,000 gold would result in 153,350 gold in costs total.
Now, subtracting those two amounts gives us a cost of 78,000 gold to upgrade it.
Most commonly I have seen people treat the non-standard parts of a specific magic weapon as a flat cost.
In other words the Sword-Saint blade is a + 3 intensifying katana (total magic price 50,000) with the 'Sword-Saint' extra, costing the balance (25,000.)
So adding Bane and Holy would take it from a +5 weapon, to a + 8 weapon, with a base cost of 128,000 for a difference (128 - 50) of 78,000 to upgrade, ending up with a Holy Outsider Bane Blade of the Sword-Saint worth 153,350.
Some specific items don't work well with this formula, and as always your GM is free to reject, but this is the typical way it is done.
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What they said...
I'm helpful!
Thanks everyone!
As a follow-up question then, what would be a good +2 enchantment (or two good +1 enchantments) to bring that sword to +10?
Keen is a good choice, especially for +1.
Flat +2?
Keen is a good choice, especially for +1.
The character build already possess Improved Critical...
Flat +2?
I'd like to but his blade in the cartoon can't cut through adamantium, so I'd like to stay true to that.
What about going with some safe, classic choices like ghost-touch & defending? Or maybe planar?
A +5 weapon won't cut through adamantium (which actually isn't in the game anyway) . It will overcome DR/Admantine but it doesn't do anything at all for ignoring hardness.
It only damages objects 2 points better than a +3 sword, and only 5 points better than just a regular sword.
Flat +2?I'd like to but his blade in the cartoon can't cut through adamantium, so I'd like to stay true to that.
Neither could a +5 weapon cut through adamantine? Heck, an adamantine weapon can't automatically cut through adamantine.
But since we're talking about Jack's sword:
The sword has the power to cut through any mundane substance, given that there is enough force behind it (Jack was unable to cut through the tough armor of the Ultra-Bots in episode XVIII without artificial strength enhancement). Likewise, similar magically enhanced objects also prove immune to being cut by the sword (for instance, the Scotsman's blade was imbued with magic runes and proves impervious). The sword's main purpose is to destroy Aku and defend the innocent; however, one very important aspect that Jack had failed to consider in his first battle with Aku, was that the sword is nothing without it's wielder.
Sounds like mechanically it could be argued the blade could be made of adamantine. Anything it can't cut through easily can be argued/handwaved that they got a hardness of 20 or higher.
But for a +2 specific quality, maybe phase locking so Aku can't teleport away easily.
Flat +2?I'd like to but his blade in the cartoon can't cut through adamantium, so I'd like to stay true to that.
Neither could a +5 weapon cut through adamantine? Heck, an adamantine weapon can't automatically cut through adamantine.
But since we're talking about Jack's sword:
The sword has the power to cut through any mundane substance, given that there is enough force behind it (Jack was unable to cut through the tough armor of the Ultra-Bots in episode XVIII without artificial strength enhancement). Likewise, similar magically enhanced objects also prove immune to being cut by the sword (for instance, the Scotsman's blade was imbued with magic runes and proves impervious). The sword's main purpose is to destroy Aku and defend the innocent; however, one very important aspect that Jack had failed to consider in his first battle with Aku, was that the sword is nothing without it's wielder.Sounds like mechanically it could be argued the blade could be made of adamantine. Anything it can't cut through easily can be argued/handwaved that they got a hardness of 20 or higher.
I'm primarily going off of episode 18, Jack and the Ultra-Bots
Extor: I want to destroy my creations. And with your help, the assassins can be defeated.
Samurai Jack: I'm sorry, but l cannot help you.
Extor: What?
Samurai Jack: Your creations are too powerful. Any form of attack that I attempted failed. The blade of my ancient sword cannot cut through the futuristic technology that you have created. It seems Aku has finally won.
Extor: Wait, wait, wait. Your sword can cut them.
Samurai Jack: What?
Extor: Of course, on your own you are not strong enough to cut through their adamantium metal. But with my last scientific invention, you can cut through them like butter.
Samurai Jack: What is it?
Extor: Well, quite simply it's a cybernetic, synaptically linked dino-dexteric, isometric poly-duritanium power gauntlet.
Samurai Jack: How will this help me?
Extor: You see, this arm will enhance your strength to give enough power to cut through any metal even the adamantium that the assassins are built of. With your skill and this arm, you are the only one who can defeat them.
If we presume that Adamantium is just adamantine for our purposes, how do we adapt this scene?
But for a +2 specific quality, maybe phase locking so Aku can't teleport away easily.
Phase Locking does look nice, perhaps...
If we presume that Adamantium is just adamantine for our purposes, how do we adapt this scene?
Adamantine only ignores hardness of 19 and lower. Anything of 20 or higher and even an adamantine weapon will have to do 21 points of damage in one attack to do 1 HP damage.
So in Episode 18's example, robots had 20 or higher hardness. Jack and his sword (even if made from adamantine) was having a tough time getting through it to do significant damage. Extor gives him a gauntlet that gives a significant bonus to Jack's strength score so that he can do more damage per hit.
If the robots/constructs had DR/- or he'd still have a tough time without the strength bonus.
I don't know why we're talking about Hardness, as that's only in relation to objects. The Robots are considered creatures by Pathfinder's terms, as they are Constructs. So all of this talk about Hardness has no relation to Damage Reduction, nor does it even stack or work in tangent.
Most constructs have DR/Adamantine, and it's suffice to say that Jack's base Strength score wouldn't be enough to overcome it. They could have as high as DR/30, especially if we consider that his sword is only a +3 (which only overcomes Silver and Cold Iron). Jack would be, let's say, 8th level by that point, and with a 24 Strength (18 Base, +4 Belt, +2 Level-up) plus Power Attack and Two-Handing, you're looking at 1D8+22. Normally, that's 23-30 damage, which can't feasibly bypass the DR. The only ways he could bypass the DR is by having a +4 Weapon, having an Adamantine weapon, or having some other sort of ability that lowers/bypasses it. Even with a critical (which wasn't really shown until the final attack he makes in the episode), that becomes 46-60, which bypasses the DR, but I'm certain it'll take more than one attack to properly kill them.
The gauntlet there would be similar to, say, 3.X's Gloves of Giant Strength meets (a modified version of) Armbands of Might. Gloves of Giant Strength would greatly increase his Strength (towards mid-30's at the minimum), and Armbands of Might would allow him to treat the benefits of Power Attack as if he had 4 BAB higher than what he usually has. With that, we're looking at (assuming 36 Strength) 1D8+35, or 1D8+5 without DR, which is certainly competent enough to deal consistent damage, especially when criticals become as high as 2D8+40 without DR.
Similarly, towards the end of that episode, Jack used what is effectively Divine Bond to raise his sword's Enhancement Bonus to +4 or higher, allowing an easy means to cut through the last Construct. So ironically, you could say that Jack would have a few levels of Paladin for the Divine Bond, but simultaneously, since that is perhaps the only instance in which he does that, it's much simpler to say that it was Divine Intervention, which is also loosely coined GM FIAT.
I don't know why we're talking about Hardness, as that's only in relation to objects. The Robots are considered creatures by Pathfinder's terms, as they are Constructs. So all of this talk about Hardness has no relation to Damage Reduction, nor does it even stack or work in tangent.
Actually Pathfinder Robots, unlike constructs, do indeed have hardness.
Actually Pathfinder Robots, unlike constructs, do indeed have hardness.I don't know why we're talking about Hardness, as that's only in relation to objects. The Robots are considered creatures by Pathfinder's terms, as they are Constructs. So all of this talk about Hardness has no relation to Damage Reduction, nor does it even stack or work in tangent.
You have a source for this? Because Constructs and Robots, last I checked, are effectively the same thing.
Check out the robots in Golarion.
Most people who agree to statting out Jack's sword consider the end-of-episode buff to be Jack's sword going from +1 to +3 Construct Bane, or +3 and getting Construct bane on there...i.e. it was the gods who made it magical in the first place, and they improved it for him so he could take on the robots.
The robots of Samurai Jack are often intelligent, and as creatures probably have DR/Magic and these robots DR/Adamantine, not simply hardness.
It's also possible that the sword got transmuted to Adamantine and the robots had Hardness 19, meaning suddenly they went from nigh untouchable to being sliced like cheese.
==Aelryinth
Check out the robots in Golarion.
That doesn't provide any sort of proof that they're any separate from Constructs. That page actually says they're Constructs, but of a separate sub-type, which means they're still constructs. That's like saying Elves aren't Humanoids, because they have the Humanoid (Elf) subtype. And that sub-type doesn't provide any mention of them receiving Hardness, meaning it would be a creature-specific subject, such as Animated Objects.
Now Animated Objects, I can understand having Hardness, because they count as both a creature and an object for all intents and purposes. But full-on Constructs as a whole? Unless they're powered down, then they can't be treated like Objects, which means any Hardness rules would not apply unless they're specified, as is the case with Animated Objects. And last I checked, Hardness doesn't have an entry in the Universal Monster Rules, so I don't know how you're pulling all of this out of thin air. Perhaps you should use a step-by-step process.
@ Aelryinth: I don't think the sword was permanently stronger by making its material better, especially when at the end of the episode and the combat was over, the magic that imbued the sword (besides its innate properties, of course) went away. It makes more sense to upgrade it to a +5 instead of the +3 that the OP is originally suggesting, as it still does bypass the DR in question. It could be a simple Divine Bond or Greater Magic Weapon boon that Jack called upon in some outlandish Deific Obedience feat chain or what have you.
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Samurai Jack: What is it?
Extor: Well, quite simply it's a cybernetic, synaptically linked dino-dexteric, isometric poly-duritanium power gauntlet.
That's some quality techno-babble right there.
Check out the robots in Golarion.That doesn't provide any sort of proof that they're any separate from Constructs. That page actually says they're Constructs, but of a separate sub-type, which means they're still constructs. That's like saying Elves aren't Humanoids, because they have the Humanoid (Elf) subtype. And that sub-type doesn't provide any mention of them receiving Hardness, meaning it would be a creature-specific subject, such as Animated Objects.
Now Animated Objects, I can understand having Hardness, because they count as both a creature and an object for all intents and purposes. But full-on Constructs as a whole? Unless they're powered down, then they can't be treated like Objects, which means any Hardness rules would not apply unless they're specified, as is the case with Animated Objects. And last I checked, Hardness doesn't have an entry in the Universal Monster Rules, so I don't know how you're pulling all of this out of thin air. Perhaps you should use a step-by-step process.
If you look under robots defense section (idk if it's all of them, but all I ran into while dming iron gods) you find they have Hardness instead of dr/ there.
I don't know why, but it was definitely problematic for the low level melee characters.
Im not sure how it'd be represented but the blade also cannot harm anyone pure of heart. I distinctly remember Jack getting disarmed once and they tried to use his sword against him only to discover that.
Alright so looking at the list linked The Arachnid robot doesn't have hardness (and is fragile), nor does the mannequin robot, or rust risen.
The rest had hardness 10 except I think Observer and Scrapyard who had hardness 5. It seems to be the thing with Robots to give them hardness over DR.
Regarding robot and their Hardness, Paizo had to put a blurb in one or more of the PFS scenarios that season to clarify that energy damage wasn't halved against "creatures" with hardness, though it was still reduced from the total.
Weird rules, but then again so is putting robots and lasers into a fantasy game.
Check out the robots in Golarion.That doesn't provide any sort of proof that they're any separate from Constructs. That page actually says they're Constructs, but of a separate sub-type, which means they're still constructs. That's like saying Elves aren't Humanoids, because they have the Humanoid (Elf) subtype. And that sub-type doesn't provide any mention of them receiving Hardness, meaning it would be a creature-specific subject, such as Animated Objects.
Now Animated Objects, I can understand having Hardness, because they count as both a creature and an object for all intents and purposes. But full-on Constructs as a whole? Unless they're powered down, then they can't be treated like Objects, which means any Hardness rules would not apply unless they're specified, as is the case with Animated Objects. And last I checked, Hardness doesn't have an entry in the Universal Monster Rules, so I don't know how you're pulling all of this out of thin air. Perhaps you should use a step-by-step process.
@ Aelryinth: I don't think the sword was permanently stronger by making its material better, especially when at the end of the episode and the combat was over, the magic that imbued the sword (besides its innate properties, of course) went away. It makes more sense to upgrade it to a +5 instead of the +3 that the OP is originally suggesting, as it still does bypass the DR in question. It could be a simple Divine Bond or Greater Magic Weapon boon that Jack called upon in some outlandish Deific Obedience feat chain or what have you.
No one's saying robots aren't constructs. But robots with Pathfinder rules do have hardness as a defensive feature unlike other constructs in general. Which if you actually checked the statblocks for several of the robots, you'd see a hardness score listed.
Oh, as a note- this weapon should give a -20 to saves against time related spells adn abilities when trying to do coup de graces ("final blow")
You'd probably need a custom magic quality to emulate the pure heart clause. Something that protects Good creatures from ever taking damage from the blade.
You'd probably need a custom magic quality to emulate the pure heart clause. Something that protects Good creatures from ever taking damage from the blade.
You hardly have to go too far- just have an automatic merciful property when attacking good aligned creatures.
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Shout out to everyone who read this in Aku's voice.
It took a bit to recognize it, but now I can't stop! :P
@ Aelryinth: I don't think the sword was permanently stronger by making its material better, especially when at the end of the episode and the combat was over, the magic that imbued the sword (besides its innate properties, of course) went away. It makes more sense to upgrade it to a +5 instead of the +3 that the OP is originally suggesting, as it still does bypass the DR in question. It could be a simple Divine Bond or Greater Magic Weapon boon that Jack called upon in some outlandish Deific Obedience feat chain or what have you.
Eh, I didn't see the buff 'going away'. I saw it as an instant reforging of the weapon.
How could you tell it went away? He still cleaves through all robots equally easy now. I think it was a permanent addition, myself.
==Aelryinth
@ Aelryinth: I don't think the sword was permanently stronger by making its material better, especially when at the end of the episode and the combat was over, the magic that imbued the sword (besides its innate properties, of course) went away. It makes more sense to upgrade it to a +5 instead of the +3 that the OP is originally suggesting, as it still does bypass the DR in question. It could be a simple Divine Bond or Greater Magic Weapon boon that Jack called upon in some outlandish Deific Obedience feat chain or what have you.
Eh, I didn't see the buff 'going away'. I saw it as an instant reforging of the weapon.
How could you tell it went away? He still cleaves through all robots equally easy now. I think it was a permanent addition, myself.
==Aelryinth
Not all robots were made the same as the ones he fought in that episode. In most episodes prior, he would fight robots that he would cut through with utter ease. The third episode is a prime example of just that.
I'd need to rewatch it again to confirm, but I'm fairly certain that the increase to the sword was only temporary, and was basically GM FIAT as it wasn't really done again except that episode.
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But the most important question is, can your Samurai jump good?
"Jumping good" is actually incredibly difficult in PF, sadly, and even if it wasn't, I fear Samurais would be rather bad at it.