Do Undead Dream?

[Rakshaka]

I am aware that all undead do not require sleep anymore, yet there are corner cases with Vampires resting in their coffins, Liches entering torpor, and other random examples of undead "sleeping until disturbed" Obviously, unintelligent undead would not dream at all, but what about some of the other cases? Do any undead dream even though none of them specifically require sleep? Can an undead creature use the Dream spell? Can it or Nightmare be used on them? I ask because its slightly relevent to our Carrion Crown game:

Details:

The source of my PC's mythic power (two tiers for the sixth module) comes from Desna and her influence in stopping outer horrors and curbing the waking dreams of the Whispering Tyrant. One of the PCs, a Dhampir, has decided to go full vampire for the next module. From a balance standpoint, there's no way I'm going to give him access to both the template and mythic tiers. My justification is that if he becomes a vampire, he cuts himself off from the source of his mythic power, dreaming. While we've agreed that this is acceptable, it did raise the question of whether undead were capable of dreaming at all.

Thoughts?

[Freehold DM]

In my campaign setting they do dream of the one who brought them back to life.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

....and if so, do they dream of zombie sheep?

[Tammy the Lich]

Tammy dreams of conquest.

And killing dwarves.

[Tacticslion]

They dream of conque-

... Dang it, Tammy! Stupid ninjas Rangers...

I'd say your decision sounds mostly legit. But in this case, becoming a vampire could be taken disrupt any connection to Desna, because it feasts on blood... like a parasite... like Ghaunadaur whom Desna has devoted herself to destroying. Similarly, the master of vampires is a demon lord, and Desna hates demon lords, as a general rule (she has... bad history with them), including Zura in specific. Becoming a vampire is really a perfect way to tick Desna off/sever relationships with her for several reasons. :D

[Rakshaka]

Yeah, I forgot about Desna almost destroying the balance between the Gods by going into the abyss and killing a demon lord and saying, "Screw the Repercussions". (Best mic drop from a Goddess ever?) At any rate, has there ever been anything printed in an AP, module, or any other Paizo source material that gives any example of an undead creature dreaming?

Wrath of the Righteous spoiler:

The redeemd succubus, Arushalae, is an outsider (who don't need to sleep) who fostered a connection with Desna. While it states that outsiders normally don't dream, her path towards redemption took her through a dream, to the pont that where Desna states, "Even demons can dream". I wonder if this can exist to other creatures as well, not just undead but awakened constructs, plants, and other creatures that don't normally sleep.

[Tacticslion]

Yeah, but that was actually a

Spoiler:

mind-read leading to a desire to dream, instead of being an actual dream itself

... if I recall correctly.

[buzzqw]

Spoiler:

"Since outsiders don't need to sleep, they
don't normally dream. Out of curiosity, she stole into the
thoughts ofher dying victim using detect thou!Jhts while the
woman lay sleeping, only to be pulled into the Dimension
of Dreams. When the priestess died, Arueshalae found
herself somehow trapped, but she hadn't gone unnoticed.
In daring to allow herself to dream, Arueshalae gained
Desna's attention. She had already observed the succubus's
murder of one of her priests, but perhaps having learned
a bit of forgiveness from her own divine ally Sarenrae,
Desna did not smite Arueshalae. Instead, she reached into
Arueshalae's soul and quickened her larval core. Memories
of her mortal life flooded back at once, memories of
dreams that never came true. Desna whispered in her ear:
"Even demons can dream."

from Demon's Heresy. Arueshalae is a great npc (having a player with cleric of desna)

BHH

[UnArcaneElection]

^Spoiler tags . . . .

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

....and if so, do they dream of zombie sheep?

Shouldn't that be electric zombie Frankenstein sheep?

[drakekobra]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Spoiler tags . . . .

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

....and if so, do they dream of zombie sheep?

Shouldn't that be electric zombie Frankenstein sheep?

nah, constructs dream of Frankenstein sheep

[Tammy the Lich]

Tammy also dreams of fire.

And death.

And the cute lil puppy killed by that f*&*ing piece of s~@# a~#@*&* dwarf.

[Sekkan]

Tammy needs a therapist.

[Tammy the Lich]

Tammy wants vengeance, f&~# therapy.

[Sekkan]

Get both.

[Namaeva]

Undead do not dream, they scheme and plot.

[justaworm]

Whether they dream or not is a different issue from whether spells like dream or nightmare work on them. As undead they are immune to mind affecting spells.

Whether undead such as vampires are actually sleeping and if they could dream seems purely in the GMs realm.

The type says that they do not breathe, sleep, or eat. However some undead do consume their victims, like ghouls, so 'eat' doesn't mean consume anything but rather 'eat for sustenance'.

Now the vampire text does say that they are helpless when at rest, so that throws a wrinkle in. They are at rest and clearly out of it,so what does that mean if they are not sleeping?

I would lean towards they can put themselves into some sort of meditative/catatonic state similar to sleep or hibernation. Their minds may function, they may even dream, or they may completely shut down. It's your call. However, the spells shouldn't work for sure.

[UnArcaneElection]

The spells should work with Threnoddic Spell, which is specifically designed for bypassing Undead immunities to mind-affecting spells. (And possessing this feat would give an Undead spellcaster a major edge over other Undead, even of the same type.)

[legoguy4492]

Tammy the Lich wrote:

Tammy also dreams of fire.

And death.

And the cute lil puppy killed by that f#!#ing piece of s*#% a+##&%~ dwarf.

LOL