General rule: Movement only cares about the square you are entering, not leaving.
Grease specific rule: Moving within or through the area requires an acrobatics check.
Therefore, when within the area of grease, to leave you must make an acrobatics check. You can 5' step to leave, assuming you make the acrobatics check. If you fail the check you can't move, and if you fail by more than 5 you fall prone.
I'm not moving within or through the grease, I'm moving out of the grease.
IF you start in a square covered in grease, you're moving within it.
logically I don't occupy all 5/5 feet of the square. So I have my character stand at the far side of the square at the edge of the grease. Thus it's only one step out of great and I don't need to take any actual steps in the grease to make a 5-foot step of movement. We already know that not moving in grease has no check. And since one foot isn't moving and the other is stepping outside the grease effect there's never any movement in the grease. So it makes sense that since my unmoving foot isn't slippery, and outside of grease isn't slippery, that I don't lose my balance at all and thus have no chance to fall.
Well then you didn't even move 5 feet, just 1 foot, so it shouldn't even use your 5-foot step. In fact, it shouldn't even change your squares since you didn't use any actual ability!
Really, you are in the square. You don't get the option to say you are "on the edge" or not of a square. RAW you are within the effect, and acrobatics should apply to move out. Have fun with your way though.
Grease is grease, not difficult terrain.
It's actually worse than difficult terrain since you may not even get half movement. Looks to me pretty much like it should be considered difficult terrain despite the nit pick.
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IF you start in a square covered in grease, you're moving within it.General rule: Movement only cares about the square you are entering, not leaving.
Grease specific rule: Moving within or through the area requires an acrobatics check.
Therefore, when within the area of grease, to leave you must make an acrobatics check. You can 5' step to leave, assuming you make the acrobatics check. If you fail the check you can't move, and if you fail by more than 5 you fall prone.
I'm not moving within or through the grease, I'm moving out of the grease.
No you're not, either by Pathfinder rules or by English language rules.
Moving "within" an area means staying inside that area. You may well be starting within the area, but if you step outside the area you're not moving within it.
Well then you didn't even move 5 feet, just 1 foot, so it shouldn't even use your 5-foot step. In fact, it shouldn't even change your squares since you didn't use any actual ability!
Really, you are in the square. You don't get the option to say you are "on the edge" or not of a square. RAW you are within the effect, and acrobatics should apply to move out. Have fun with your way though.
No the rest of my 5ft step is used to get to the edge of that square. The rules are silent on where in the square you are. You're using the example of being not on the edge, and thus some steps must be in the grease. But my equally legal example has no steps in the grease. Thus even though you started your turn in the effects of grease, you never move within the grease, I'm only moving out of the grease.
Moving "within" an area means staying inside that area. You may well be starting within the area, but if you step outside the area you're not moving within it.
If you are moving from a square effected by grease to one not effected by grease, half your movement is within the grease and half isn't. Movement isn't done teleporting around, its a continuous process. While moving toward the square outside of the grease, you are within the effect, and should make an acrobatics check. If you fail the check, you don't get to move at all. If you fail it by more than 5, you slip and fall prone while trying to move. If you make the check, then you move your 5 feet, and if you had used a move action would have (for a human) 25 feet remaining for the rest of your movement. (Assuming you stay out of the grease, which uses half speed while you are inside it).
No the rest of my 5ft step is used to get to the edge of that square. The rules are silent on where in the square you are. You're using the example of being not on the edge, and thus some steps must be in the grease. But my equally legal example has no steps in the grease. Thus even though you started your turn in the effects of grease, you never move within the grease, I'm only moving out of the grease.Well then you didn't even move 5 feet, just 1 foot, so it shouldn't even use your 5-foot step. In fact, it shouldn't even change your squares since you didn't use any actual ability!
Really, you are in the square. You don't get the option to say you are "on the edge" or not of a square. RAW you are within the effect, and acrobatics should apply to move out. Have fun with your way though.
...So you don't have to make an acrobatics check to get out of the grease?
Moving "within" an area means staying inside that area. You may well be starting within the area, but if you step outside the area you're not moving within it.If you are moving from a square effected by grease to one not effected by grease, half your movement is within the grease and half isn't. Movement isn't done teleporting around, its a continuous process. While moving toward the square outside of the grease, you are within the effect, and should make an acrobatics check. If you fail the check, you don't get to move at all. If you fail it by more than 5, you slip and fall prone while trying to move. If you make the check, then you move your 5 feet, and if you had used a move action would have (for a human) 25 feet remaining for the rest of your movement. (Assuming you stay out of the grease, which uses half speed while you are inside it).
Nothing in the rules say half your moving is within your starting square. If you go from one edge to the next, equally 5ft of movement from one square to the next, then 0% of you movement is done within the grease.
If you don't have rules to back you up don't use your ideas as proof to shut down someone else's ideas.
...So you don't have to make an acrobatics check to get out of the grease?No the rest of my 5ft step is used to get to the edge of that square. The rules are silent on where in the square you are. You're using the example of being not on the edge, and thus some steps must be in the grease. But my equally legal example has no steps in the grease. Thus even though you started your turn in the effects of grease, you never move within the grease, I'm only moving out of the grease.Well then you didn't even move 5 feet, just 1 foot, so it shouldn't even use your 5-foot step. In fact, it shouldn't even change your squares since you didn't use any actual ability!
Really, you are in the square. You don't get the option to say you are "on the edge" or not of a square. RAW you are within the effect, and acrobatics should apply to move out. Have fun with your way though.
Right, grease says to make the check when you want move within or through the area. Since you're moving out of the area there's not check needed.
No the rest of my 5ft step is used to get to the edge of that square. The rules are silent on where in the square you are. You're using the example of being not on the edge, and thus some steps must be in the grease. But my equally legal example has no steps in the grease. Thus even though you started your turn in the effects of grease, you never move within the grease, I'm only moving out of the grease.
The rules are silent on where in the square you occupy. That tells you that no matter what part of the square you occupy, the rules apply the same. It doesn't matter if you're on the edge of the square near the end of the effect, the middle, or the edge near the origin. The rules apply the same for moving from the affected square to an empty square. Acrobatics check if you want to move, failure means you can't move, failing by more than 5 means you also fall prone.
Right and since the rule are silent and the mechanics need to be the same then there's no check for moving out of grease regardless of where you are since there'd be no check needed if you were on the edge.
Acrobatics check needed if you move to a square within the grease, aka moving within grease, none if you're moving out of the grease.
Because of rules.
A similar reason to why a pixie can crane style and stop an ancient red dragon's bite attack from hitting it when "realistically" the dragon should be able to eat it without trying.
A similar reason as to why dragon's can fly with wings and giants can support their weight.
A similar reason as to why you can swim in lava or have no fear of death from falling from orbit into the ground.
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I'll stick to my ruling of yes you can 5ft step and yes you have to pass and acrobatics check to do so.
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The same rule applies if you start off outside the area of the grease spell, and try to walk through it and out the other side. A creature that fails the initial acrobatics check cannot move that round, so never actually enters a greased square.
So, obviously, it's not as simple as saying the origination square is the one that matters; that clearly isn't the case.
Yup, If you try to move into grease then you fail acrobatics and can't move into the grease, even though there's no grease in your current square. Showing that it's the square you're moving into that matters and the odd effects of failing to move because you wanted to move into grease are just the rules. So moving from grease to grease doesn't care about the square you are in, only that you're trying to move into grease and thus if you fail you can't move that round.
It's actually worse than difficult terrain since you may not even get half movement. Looks to me pretty much like it should be considered difficult terrain despite the nit pick.
Grease is grease, not difficult terrain.
Grease is not only difficult terrain, it is treacherous terrain an renders a character moving within or through it flat footed.
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grease isn't difficult terrain, If it was then you could ignore it with something that lets you ignore difficult terrain. But it's not labeled as difficult terrain, so it's not and thus if you can ignore difficult terrain you can't ignore grease.
It does not matter what type of terrain Grease is. To 5' step, you count the square your are entering, not the one that you are leaving. You can 5' step out of difficult terrain to a "normal" square all day long.
You can 5' step out of a square that is rocky mountain terrain, with ruble, undergrowth, and normal trees, all covered in snow, as long as the destination square is a dry clearing.
Now, that is completely separate from if Grease stops you due to the acrobatics check, but based on terrain alone, it does not matter what the square is that you are starting in.
For matters of this discussion, the type of terrain that grease is, does not matter. Only the "within" clause.
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make reflex saves, or reduce their speed, or stand and be flat-footed.Not sure you have that correct. You only have to make a reflex save if you're in the area when the spell is cast. After that, you have to make acrobatics rolls whenever you move, and you can only move at half-speed. There is no option to move faster.
If you're standing, why would you be flat-footed?
You wouldn't, as the definition of Grease makes very clear.
Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make (an acrobatics) check and are not considered flat-footed.
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Moving "within" an area means staying inside that area. You may well be starting within the area, but if you step outside the area you're not moving within it.If you are moving from a square effected by grease to one not effected by grease, half your movement is within the grease and half isn't. Movement isn't done teleporting around, its a continuous process. While moving toward the square outside of the grease, you are within the effect, and should make an acrobatics check. If you fail the check, you don't get to move at all. If you fail it by more than 5, you slip and fall prone while trying to move. If you make the check, then you move your 5 feet, and if you had used a move action would have (for a human) 25 feet remaining for the rest of your movement. (Assuming you stay out of the grease, which uses half speed while you are inside it).Nothing in the rules say half your moving is within your starting square. If you go from one edge to the next, equally 5ft of movement from one square to the next, then 0% of you movement is done within the grease.
If you don't have rules to back you up don't use your ideas as proof to shut down someone else's ideas.
Generally I disagree with Chess Pwn, but it seem that this time he is right by RAW.
We should look how difficult terrain work:
I we are in a square of difficult terrain and move to a square of not difficult terrain , we pay 10' of movement to move?
No, you pay the cost of the square in which you enter, and of obstacles on the border between the two squares, not the cost of the square you are leaving (your size can change that, but only because some part of your anatomy is entering the difficult terrain square).
Until the spell say that leaving a square of grease force you to make a Acrobatic check, it don't force you ot make it.
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Let's say you try to move from one square of Grease to another square of grease. I'm sure everyone agrees that an Acrobatics check is required. If that check is failed by 5 or more, you fall in the same square that you started the movement. From the spell:
Failure means it can't move that roundSo why would it be any different if the destination square wasn't covered in grease? If you never moved, then you never even encountered the destination square. If it was only the destination that mattered, you would fall in the destination square. If you can't move that round, and if you fall in your origination square, then how would you have even made it out of the original square in the first place?
Let's expand your example.
You move from a square of non-greased terrain to a square of greased terrain.You make the check? Yes.
Where are you forced to stop and make your save? In the square from which you entered the grased area. That is not greased.
So, unless you are suggesting that entering a greased square don't require an acrobatic check, it work as Chess Pwn say.
Silly? Yes, but that is how movement work in Pathfinder.
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Grease is not only difficult terrain, it is treacherous terrain an renders a character moving within or through it flat footed.It's actually worse than difficult terrain since you may not even get half movement. Looks to me pretty much like it should be considered difficult terrain despite the nit pick.
Grease is grease, not difficult terrain.
You are misreading Grease text. It don't say that you are flat footed when moving, it say " Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed."
That simply mean that even if you chose not to move, your movement is not so restricted that you are flat footed.|
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this is a long thread and there are good points on all sides. So there's going to be some table variance.
for me it's a spell with duration and targets in the area of effect(AoE) are going to be affected and have to; make reflex saves, or reduce their speed, or stand and be flat-footed. If a target moves the spell is going to affect him with the first two options be it 5ft, 10ft, or 1000ft.
Usually movement rate is defined by where you are moving into, but this is a spell and targets in the AoE are affected. So that 10*10ft area is a hazard to be avoided.really this boils down to, can I full attack and do two 5ft steps to move through the greased area.
You are halving the creature movement for the whole turn? Or only the part done using Acrobatics?
I know it can be easily read as "the whole turn" but it is a bit silly to halve the movement of a creature with 50' of movement because it move 5' using acrobatics.
I believe the flat footed idea comes from the acrobatics check to move. When acrobatics is used to move on "narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling" you are demied your dex bonus. Grease uses a similiar mechanic, but is neither narrow or uneven, and never calls out the loss of dexterity.
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I believe the flat footed idea comes from the acrobatics check to move. When acrobatics is used to move on "narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling" you are demied your dex bonus. Grease uses a similiar mechanic, but is neither narrow or uneven, and never calls out the loss of dexterity.
But then it list only narrow surfaces. YMMV, but as I read it it applies only when you are prevented from moving more that a few inches on the sides, not when you are able to move in all direction if you make the check.
To apply it to uneven or greased surfaces we need to know what is the DC difficulty that will make us flat footed.
We need a Severely slippery (icy) +5, slightly obstructed +2 boat in a storm +5 for a total of +14.
Or a Slightly slippery (wet) +2 surface is enough?
For narrow surfaces the discriminant is DC 10, for other surfaces what is it?
Another way to look at it is, "how many successful checks are required to get through 4 squares of grease, moving 1 square per round?
If the check is required when you enter an effected square AND when you leave grease, than you have to make 5 successful checks to move through 4 effected squares.
If the check is only required when you enter an effected square, than you have to make 4 successful checks to move through 4 effected squares.
Does that change your opinion of which way it should work?
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"A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check."
"Right, grease says to make the check when you want move within or through the area. Since you're moving out of the area there's not check needed."
Only quoting the most direct person I am replying to but this is meant for the thread as a whole.
Okay... let's go through this bit by bit.
"A creature" - This is the being who either is or will be in the area of grease.
"can walk" - This is the action that is affected.
"within" - Within is the case where the creature is moving from one inside space to another inside place.
"or" - This means there is a second case where the effect applies.
"through" - Through is the case where the creature is crossing the barrier between inside place and outside place.
"the area of grease" - Is the entire area of grease, not a single square of the grease effect. Thus, all squares affected by the grease spell are within the area and you can go through the barrier that separates the affected squares from the non-affected squares. IE : The AOE of the grease effect. This is important as what you may move through or within is the AOE, not individual squares.
"at half normal speed" - Is the effect listed for performing the listed action. This does not say difficult terrain. 5-foot steps are possible, because half speed is dividing your total number of square movements and does not double the cost of each square. Same end result(only moving half as many squares) does not equal same cause or same total restrictions or benefits.
"with a DC 10 Acrobatics check." - is the hurdle one must cross to be able to perform the affected action while in the listed conditions. You only make this check once per affected action. Thus, you can begin your turn outside the AOE, move into it and through affected squares and out of it with one check.
There is more to the spell, but no one seems to be confused about that... except perhaps people confused that the flat-footed portion of the spell is in reference to using acrobatics on a slippery surface.
So, TLDR; You can 5-foot step within or through a grease AOE. You must still perform the acrobatics check to do so. Going into or out of the AOE of the spell requires the acrobatics check as does moving within the AOE. You are flat-footed if you do any sort of movement after the acrobatics check and you are no longer flat-footed after you are in a square which would not have required a check to get to if you started your turn in the square you moved from to get to that square. You move at half-speed, which means each square costs two squares in effect but that does not prevent you from trading 10 possible movement for 5 actual movement as it is not difficult terrain.
Wow... Quite a long thread. o.o
Might as well throw in my two cents....
Going into or out of the AOE of the spell requires the acrobatics check as does moving within the AOE.
Nice breakdown. Probably brought up before by one of the 300 posters, but this is the only part that doesn't seem to follow from it. If I were to guess, many people chose to interpret "Through" one of two ways: One way being crossing into/out of the space, as you suggest, and the other way being a more literal definition of "moving in one side and out of the other side of"?
Since a simple google search of the word brings up the latter definition, then all that's missing to complete this argument is to show that when Pathfinder says "Through", it really does mean "Crossing the threshold into/out of" rather than crossing over a section of the Grease'd space in completion. Did any of the previous posters show proof of this?
Otherwise inclined to believe you can 5 foot step into and out of the space without a check. A wizard just needs to include his/herself in the area to begin with, to safely 5 foot step away from a full-attacking fighter.
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Wow... Quite a long thread. o.o
Might as well throw in my two cents....
Going into or out of the AOE of the spell requires the acrobatics check as does moving within the AOE.Nice breakdown. Probably brought up before by one of the 300 posters, but this is the only part that doesn't seem to follow from it. If I were to guess, many people chose to interpret "Through" one of two ways: One way being crossing into/out of the space, as you suggest, and the other way being a more literal definition of "moving in one side and out of the other side of"?
Since a simple google search of the word brings up the latter definition, then all that's missing to complete this argument is to show that when Pathfinder says "Through", it really does mean "Crossing the threshold into/out of" rather than crossing over a section of the Grease'd space in completion. Did any of the previous posters show proof of this?
Otherwise inclined to believe you can 5 foot step into and out of the space without a check. A wizard just needs to include his/herself in the area to begin with, to safely 5 foot step away from a full-attacking fighter.
If you do not need a check to move into or out of the AOE then you only need a check if you move either entirely through the effect, or if you move from one square to another inside the effect.
With this a player can take one step into or out of the grease and not be affected. This is a possible interpretation, but would lead to situations where someone could move through a grease spell AOE in two turns and not need to make an acrobatics check. Example, turn 1, character A moves into the effect. Turn 2, character A moves 90 degrees from his entrance line through a line exiting the grease and has neither halved his movement or taken an acrobatics check. They could do that because if through is "into the effect area and out of the effect area" instead of "into the effect area or out of the effect area". As neither of those are moving "within" the AOE.
In this way, starting inside the grease effect is beneficial to a character as they would freely, with no penalty or check, be able to leave the grease effect by any line connected to an unaffected square.
If you were standing in a square in the grease effect, it would also be possible for someone to charge you no matter their starting relation to you. In fact, the only way to stop someone from charging through grease they would be to force them to cross through two squares of grease(by starting in one square with a square facing the desirable charge lane, or by starting outside the effect). If this was and instead of or crossing into/out of the AOE.
Now, it would also be impossible to stop a full attack hitting you with grease in either event(unless they fell). As you can 5-foot step inside of the grease effect or into or out of it. There is nothing preventing this. So, if you 5 foot step away from an adjacent fighter and then grease yourself they can still 5-foot in to full attack you.
This is a possible interpretation, but would lead to situations where someone could move through a grease spell AOE in two turns and not need to make an acrobatics check.
Yep. Still effective for a 1st level spell though, if you're forcing someone to take 2 turns just to cross 1 square of "Grease" safely.
If you were standing in a square in the grease effect, it would also be possible for someone to charge you no matter their starting relation to you. In fact, the only way to stop someone from charging through grease they would be to force them to cross through two squares of grease
Under most circumstances, without a physical barrier and with direct line of effect, this is true As long as you were in the center of the area, and not the far side. It's also important to note they can't cut a corner through a single square of Grease without being affected, and even a single square of grease in the way of a charge is enough to stop it (Granted they can't maneuver around it). =P
Now, it would also be impossible to stop a full attack hitting you with grease in either event(unless they fell). As you can 5-foot step inside of the grease effect or into or out of it. There is nothing preventing this. So, if you 5 foot step away from an adjacent fighter and then grease yourself they can still 5-foot in to full attack you.
A 5-foot step from one greased square to another greased square would still call for the acrobatics check. So, yes, using this spell would only stop them if they fell due to that movement. Forgive me if I implied they were safe regardless of whether the fighter fell. For a fighter so close, it's probably more effective to grease their held weapon. At least they have an initial saving throw to meet or drop it, and a second one every round they try to attack with it =P
EDIT: :Last post edited to reflect this.
EDIT2: Apparently I can't anymore... nevermind.
Question: Can you make a 5' step out of Grease?
The immediate implications are if your wizard casts Grease on an enemy so that you can 5' step away. If you can't make a 5' step out of grease, then they're blocked from making a full attack on you. If you can make a 5' step out of Grease then assuming they pass the DC 10 Acrobatics check they can make a full attack.
The discussion for this question is here.
A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.
The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.
5 ft step out of grease means 5 ft step into non difficult terrain. Movement rules don't generally track what terrain you leave, but what terrain you move into.
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5 ft step out of grease means 5 ft step into non difficult terrain. Movement rules don't generally track what terrain you leave, but what terrain you move into.Question: Can you make a 5' step out of Grease?
The immediate implications are if your wizard casts Grease on an enemy so that you can 5' step away. If you can't make a 5' step out of grease, then they're blocked from making a full attack on you. If you can make a 5' step out of Grease then assuming they pass the DC 10 Acrobatics check they can make a full attack.
The discussion for this question is here.
A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.
The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.
Grease does not create difficult terrain. And thus does not follow difficult terrain logic. Grease ONLY affects you when you move "through or within" the AOE. The argument is what those two words mean.
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This is a possible interpretation, but would lead to situations where someone could move through a grease spell AOE in two turns and not need to make an acrobatics check.Yep. Still effective for a 1st level spell though, if you're forcing someone to take 2 turns just to cross 1 square of "Grease" safely.
If you were standing in a square in the grease effect, it would also be possible for someone to charge you no matter their starting relation to you. In fact, the only way to stop someone from charging through grease they would be to force them to cross through two squares of greaseUnder most circumstances, without a physical barrier and with direct line of effect, this is true As long as you were in the center of the area, and not the far side. It's also important to note they can't cut a corner through a single square of Grease without being affected, and even a single square of grease in the way of a charge is enough to stop it (Granted they can't maneuver around it). =P
. = square
x = grease squareo = character A on a grease square
a = character A not on a grease square
b = caster
y = caster on a grease square
Example 1 - 2, A my charge B
xx....
xo...b
xx....
yx...a
Example 3 - 4, A may not charge B
xx....
ox...b
.xx...
oxx..b
Example 4, A does not take a penalty
step 1
.xo.....
.xx.....
step 2
.xxb....
.xx.....
Example 5, A does not take a penalty
step 1
bxx.....
.xx.....
step 2
.ox.....
.xx.....
So, if through requires you to move into the area and out of it in the same action, a character typically wants to be inside the grease effect at the start of their turn as most situations(not tight hallways) would allow them to take zero penalties and at most prevents charging. This would be instead of actually causing half movement, which it wouldn't in most cases(again, except in tight hallways).
My point is, if this is and instead of or, the spell is just not worth casting at the ground in most cases and is outshined by its two other uses. I can be okay with that, but it would be unfortunate to happen to such a classic spell. Also, I think they'd need to change the description to "A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of conditionally slippery grease."
This is definitely a FAQ worthy issue.
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@ Diego; the creature in the AoE makes the decision as to their movement that round. Once the pawn moves or movement is declared the GM can adjudicate effect and rolls as needed. The creature would need to make a spellcraft check to know the exact effects(parameters) of the spell.You are halving the creature movement for the whole turn? Or only the part done using Acrobatics?
I know it can be easily read as "the whole turn" but it is a bit silly to halve the movement of a creature with 50' of movement because it move 5' using acrobatics.
1) The movement don't work that way, you decide how you move square by square, actions and reactions by other characters can change the situation and how you move.
If I start to move and a character has a ready action to "move 5' to intercept and attack Diego when he moves", after he has taken his readied I can stop my movement action to do my standard action, or I can change the path I am taking to walk around him, provoking a AoO, and I can decide to make an acrobatic check to avoid that.With the exception of a few specific actions my movement isn't engraved in stone at the start of the movement action.
2) So you think that if I start a move 20' away from a patch of grease, and want to enter the grease square, my movement is halved from the start, so that I need a movement of 50' to be able to do that?
3) What is the relevance of the spellcraft check? Either there is a patch of grease on the floor, something that I can see with an appropriate perception check, or there isn't one.
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You are flat-footed if you do any sort of movement after the acrobatics check
Cite the rule that say that if you do a acrobatic check on something that isn't a narrow surface you are flat footed.
You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling.
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Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any).Surface Width Base Acrobatics DC
Greater than 3 feet wide 0*
1–3 feet wide 5*
7–11 inches wide 10
2–6 inches wide 15
Less than 2 inches wide 20
* No Acrobatics check is needed to move across these surfaces unless the modifiers to the surface (below) increase the DC to 10 or higher.
As long as we look the skill description and not rules added in modules to make more exciting specific scenarios, the only situation in which having to roll a Acrobatic check make you flat footed is when you are on a narrow surface.
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You are flat-footed if you do any sort of movement after the acrobatics checkCite the rule that say that if you do a acrobatic check on something that isn't a narrow surface you are flat footed.
You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling.
....
Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any).Surface Width Base Acrobatics DC
Greater than 3 feet wide 0*
1–3 feet wide 5*
7–11 inches wide 10
2–6 inches wide 15
Less than 2 inches wide 20
* No Acrobatics check is needed to move across these surfaces unless the modifiers to the surface (below) increase the DC to 10 or higher.As long as we look the skill description and not rules added in modules to make more exciting specific scenarios, the only situation in which having to roll a Acrobatic check make you flat footed is when you are on a narrow surface.
The DC to cross an area of grease is what? 10. Up from 0, as the width is greater than 3 feet. That is a DC increase of 10, due to surface changes.
"* No Acrobatics check is needed to move across these surfaces unless the modifiers to the surface (below) increase the DC to 10 or higher."
With that DC increase, a check is required under the "Cross Narrow Surfaces/Uneven Ground" acrobatics section. Notice that it is not exclusive to narrow surfaces in the title alone. It includes any surface with a modified DC 10 or higher for making a check in that section, no matter the width. The width only gives you the base DC. Of which every surface size is represented.
Also note that the spell specifically references the acrobatics rules, which calls into question any idea that grease is using its own definition for an acrobatics check.
You can step out, which makes sense. You made your saving throw to stay standing, the effects of the spell should be pretty minimal after that
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You can step out, which makes sense. You made your saving throw to stay standing, the effects of the spell should be pretty minimal after that
In one specific circumstance, you may have made a reflex save and succeed, then walked out which satisfies your want of penalty to those in the AOE. But it is entirely possible to step into and out of a grease AOE without taking any penalties or having to make a save by this definition(albeit on 2 separate turns). That I can not fully agree with. As conditionally slippery grease bothers me.
Of course if you mean "five foot step" instead of just "can step out", then I must agree as there is no rule presented that prevents you from doing so. Only that you will have used up 10 movement for the 5 foot step.