As it stands, there's been so many erratas and misprint corrections for RotRl that I feel like I can't play it without having to reference my computer every other minute. Has there ever been any thought about a revised edition that fixes all the cards?
Also fix stupid cards like elven boots and cards that are so incredibly narrow that you might never be able to use them.
There have been such advancements in the game since RoTR that probably 50% of the un-errated cards could use tweaks like trait modifications (adding basic/elite)and power revisions. Also zest up the monster deck so there aren't any repeat monsters.
The only problem would be how much demand would there be for RoTR 2.0?
Its easier to do for the new digital product than reprint the whole RoTR block with matching card backs etc.
I could see doing a kickstarter for it so you could see if it was worth doing. Throw another 7 promo cards in for KS plus a set of all the promos printed to date and it might do pretty well.
you could have a higher level sponsor tier that you could pick a card and have new, better art done for it
But then you have 3 sets of slightly different card backs and card sizes. (Chinese printing, US printing and Drivethru) You know what would make me want a packet of the corrected cards? A extra set of the all the promos.
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You mean 3rd printing? There already was a 2nd printing (which did include some errata, as well as different card sizes and back coloring due to having been printed at a different printer).
I think Paizo still has plenty of 2nd printing stock left over, so I don't think they'll spring for a 3rd printing until all of that runs out (and I'm not sure they will even then unless it evaporates before Season of the Runelords ends).
As Ron said, there is already an errata pack available on DriveThru that contains the vast majority of corrected cards (there's only a couple that were erratad after it was made). The DriveThru card backs exactly match the US printing backs if you order the 2nd printing errata set (at least, I'm unable to discern any difference). The 1st printing errata set should match the backs for the Chinese printing, although sizes may be off -- if you have a 1st printing I'd highly recommend sleeving in order to remove any such tells.
As it stands, there's been so many erratas and misprint corrections for RotRl that I feel like I can't play it without having to reference my computer every other minute. Has there ever been any thought about a revised edition that fixes all the cards?
I think we will see some of these changes in the computer game. Then they might consider a 3rd printing.
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Also fix stupid cards like elven boots and cards that are so incredibly narrow that you might never be able to use them.
Outside of a card actually needing an errata (actual incorrect text, broken powerful, etc., not just "It's not good") it's not going to be updated in a prerelease like that. It's going to be a new card entirely. A reprint won't help that.
Hey! Sajan loves those Elven Boots. They add a die to his Acrobatics check, and also let him succeed at a Stealth check. They are great for him.
Hey! Sajan loves those Elven Boots. They add a die to his Acrobatics check, and also let him succeed at a Stealth check. They are great for him.
Running thru RotR with Sajan, 80% of all checks wereAcrobatics and Stealth checks.
U really need those boots...
That's sarcasm right?
That's sarcasm right?
Not from me. It might depend on your party make up, but with a 6 character group, you'll see the Warrens, Mill and Courtyard (Acrobatics) and Wooden Bridge (Stealth) quite a bit. 16 out of the 33 scenarios in the game. So about half the time.
39 banes have one of the two skills as their check to defeat or as part of their encounter.
If Sajan is your Dexterity character, then you've got not one with Stealth. Being able to close the Wooden Bridge for a recharge and having a reveal to help with the Warrens, Mill and Courtyard (and those banes), I'd say that makes for a pretty good Base Set card.
I feel your pain Xexyz and even suggested some ways of lessening it, but I don't think things are going to change any time soon on Paizo's end.
The DriveThruCards errata release fixes most of the items currently in the FAQ, and you could ignore the rest of the FAQ questions if checking is too much work (searching by date doesn't help because the items in the FAQ aren't listed in date order.)
Also my condolences to the 1st printing owners, as replacing all the cards can cost significantly more than the outlay for 2nd printing owners. I'm still glad the option exists though, and I'd pay for more errata cards in the future because I hate looking at FAQs if there's a way to avoid it.
This reminds me, I need to order those errata cards.
I got my set during the non-mint sale. Got a 1st printing box set, and the PC Add on, and a couple of the adventure decks are first print, the others are second. Kind of confusing about what i need errata wise. I am assuming the answer is "All of it, and figure it out when I get them!"
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This reminds me, I need to order those errata cards.
I got my set during the non-mint sale. Got a 1st printing box set, and the PC Add on, and a couple of the adventure decks are first print, the others are second. Kind of confusing about what i need errata wise. I am assuming the answer is "All of it, and figure it out when I get them!"
If you concern is having all the errata cards you need, get the first printing errata. You mention having more than a few first printing products. And there are no errata unique to the second printing.
That's sarcasm right?Not from me. It might depend on your party make up, but with a 6 character group, you'll see the Warrens, Mill and Courtyard (Acrobatics) and Wooden Bridge (Stealth) quite a bit. 16 out of the 33 scenarios in the game. So about half the time.
39 banes have one of the two skills as their check to defeat or as part of their encounter.
If Sajan is your Dexterity character, then you've got not one with Stealth. Being able to close the Wooden Bridge for a recharge and having a reveal to help with the Warrens, Mill and Courtyard (and those banes), I'd say that makes for a pretty good Base Set card.
Plus, don't a bunch of the new monk weapons from the class deck let you use Acrobatics as a combat skill? Free blessing on every combat check? Seems good.
They do. Good catch! And, while the Monk Class Deck itself doesn't contain the Boots of Elvenkind, so you'll probably not see such a thing in organized play, if you are mixing cards in a standard game, it is a fantastic combination!
Sajan should really just have a power that says "If you are pressed for time, reveal this character card to succeed at your combat check, because we all know you are going to anyway."
I actually kinda feel like RotR Sajan was "Examine your character card then recharge your hand to succeed at your combat check"
My son loved Sajan in our RotR play through. He also felt Selytiel in S&S was similar with the combination of spells and swords.
You know. You could create some sort of "Legacy" idea:
Step 1) Play through RotR. Everytime you banish or fail to acquire a Boon: Rip the card.
Step 2) When you've played through RotR and ripped apart all the hard and useless boons: Cry.
Step 3) Play through RotR again with only useful and easy to get boons!
The biggest fix I was hoping would come from a 2nd printing was the change to all of the banes that had their BYA powers as before you encounter to the updated paradigm of BYA. Would make evasion a lot less painful.
Not from me. It might depend on your party make up, but with a 6 character group, you'll see the Warrens, Mill and Courtyard (Acrobatics) and Wooden Bridge (Stealth) quite a bit. 16 out of the 33 scenarios in the game. So about half the time.
39 banes have one of the two skills as their check to defeat or as part of their encounter.
Do you have a searchable database of all the cards or something?
Doesn't everyone?
If you concern is having all the errata cards you need, get the first printing errata. You mention having more than a few first printing products. And there are no errata unique to the second printing.This reminds me, I need to order those errata cards.
I got my set during the non-mint sale. Got a 1st printing box set, and the PC Add on, and a couple of the adventure decks are first print, the others are second. Kind of confusing about what i need errata wise. I am assuming the answer is "All of it, and figure it out when I get them!"
Thanks! Finally got around to ordering the set. Hoping they're here in time for the next session in a couple weeks.
I could use a searchable database for scenario design. How can I get one?
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I could use a searchable database for scenario design. How can I get one?
Start typing. :(
That's not a very community oriented thing to say
It's unfortunately the only valid answer. Card info is not covered under the Community Use Policy, so anyone who makes such a database can't distribute it.
Distributing the database without information is perfectly fine, though. A collaborative effort on such a database would make a great group project.
It's unfortunately the only valid answer. Card info is not covered under the Community Use Policy, so anyone who makes such a database can't distribute it.Distributing the database without information is perfectly fine, though. A collaborative effort on such a database would make a great group project.
"Information" in this case means "every bit of text on the card." If we made a database, the only info I think we'd be allowed to distribute are the card names, types, and adventure deck numbers (as that info is publicly available on the deck lists, and even then we'd be using it under the pretense of Fair Use, as the deck lists aren't under the CUP). Traits and powers would not be allowed to be distributed. I could see someone making a shell database of the public info so that people wanting to type out everything else themselves have at least something to start with, though.
I think data for analysis and review is considered fair use. We are only using less than 5% of the information on the card. There are databases of all magic cards including the art which is copyrighted and apparently that's allowed.
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That's all freely and publicly available from Wizards themselves which makes it a lot easier to do without violating policies.
As for analysis and review, that is correct, but only for certain groups or individuals and with certain kinds of content. A tabletop game's components by fans of that game is not covered.
You say 5% of the card info, so I'm curious, what are you wanting in the database? Because anything meaningful that isn't already available (from CUP, or freely available documents like card lists) is basically the whole card.
Sure the meat of a database would be the text of the cards, but entry of that data, while time consuming, is straight forward. The aspects of a database that would be most useful for the community would be the schema and queries that would allow randomization and sorting. I think the CUP would allow for card names, deck number, and type to be distributed with the DB as that info is available in the decklists. If not, a card entry form could be built to expedite card text entry.
Data for Locations would be, for example:
Academy 1B11050110 InAr6
Data for Monsters:
Bugbear 1B GoBuWaEl Co10
I don't think that level of information is outside the scope of fair use
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The "11050110 InAr6" and "GoBuWaEl Co10" may be.
I can't figure out what the 1 in the 1B is for those? Quantity?
I do actually like that shorthand for everything, and just have it expand when you view a specific card.
Oh, and because I'm nitpicky, you'd want "Com10" so you could have Con checks as well ;)
Claiming fair use is a minefield, it'd be far easier to just ask for Paizo's explicit permission to construct such a database and follow their guidelines on what it can contain. I know I certainly don't have money to hire a lawyer to prove Fair Use in court should it come to that, so I'd be significantly more likely to simply acquiesce to demands to take such a database down.
The Community Use Policy only covers cards that have been posted on the blog, which is a very small percentage of total cards. As a result, we either need Paizo's permission to make a database encompassing every card, or we need to claim fair use.
The four criteria for fair use are as follows:
1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
We're good on #1: we'd making it freely available to assist with designing homebrew/fan-made cards and scenarios, performing research/data analysis on the cards, or whatever other noncommercial use someone can think to use it for. The use is highly transformative, as we are turning physical cards used to play a game into a searchable database meant for purposes other than playing a game.
I don't see #2 applying to this particular analysis; PACG is a fictional work and there is no significant public interest in the copyrighted content being made freely available.
#3 and #4 are where the major issues lie. By only reproducing information already publicly made available by Paizo (e.g. the deck lists), we limit ourselves to using only a small portion of the card, and that portion is not enough to allow someone to use our database instead of purchasing PACG themselves to play the game. In terms of substantiality for #3, the power text is the real heavy hitter -- simply including that I think would violate that point. Including traits I think should also be fine under fair use however, as it uses a bit more of the card but still not enough to detract from the value of the box sets themselves and the traits are not a substantial part of playing the game such that one could play knowing only the traits and other information besides power text. Once you start including power text, someone could play the game entirely from the database and forego purchasing PACG -- something that reduces its value and is a flagrant violation of #4. The value of PACG is not predicated on the uses outlined in the justification for #1, so making a database containing exactly enough information for those purposes would not detract from the market value of PACG.
So, in terms of fair use, I think the following wouldn't be contested:
+ Card Name
+ Card Set/Adventure Deck Number/Quantity in the box for each set it appears in
+ Card Type/Subtype (in case it is a loot, villain, or henchman)
+ Check to Acquire/Defeat
+ Traits
+ Card List (for locations)
We could also add some more info based on the powers but not the power text itself, however this is more iffy as combined with the above we're starting to use a significant portion of the card for #3 and a case could be made for harming the market value of PACG for #4:
+ If the card has BYA or AYA damage
+ If a henchman, does it allow a close attempt
+ Other checks required by the card (BYA/AYA checks, recharge checks, checks to close locations, etc.)
The following information cannot be included in the database at all to qualify for fair use in my opinion, as it either violates #4 or is unneeded for the purposes set forth in #1:
- Any information whatsoever about story cards (adventure paths, adventures, scenarios). The only exception to this might be what locations are included in a particular scenario, as that could give guidelines as to how to build up homebrew scenarios or run stats on scenario difficulty.
- Full power text. Even for cards released on the blog, I don't think we can include their text as the database as a whole would not fall under the CUP due to the use of copyrighted material not in that policy.
- Support cards that are not a major part of gameplay (fleet card, troop cards, redemption card, etc.). Including details on support cards that are a major part of gameplay (ships, cohorts, etc.) I think is ok as long as it doesn't include unnecessary information.
- Artwork or card images
In all, I still think it'd be better if we can get official approval to work on this project (and ideally get official approval to make it available under the Community Use Policy as well) rather than leaning on fair use. We have a reasonable case in my opinion, but due to the nature of fair use in US copyright law, it is not proven so until it goes through court. If anyone at Paizo reads this and thinks it's a good idea, such approval would ideally enumerate what sort of data is allowed to be collected into the database.
The 1B is for RoTR Set B, so you know which box to pull open when looking for that card.
2 would be S&S, 3 would be WoTR, 4 is Mummy whatever and so on.
The database is helpful if say I need a location with high numbers of allies for a particular adventure I've designed and if I focus on a particular creature type in an adventure its helpful to see which monsters have that type. Its easier to be able to do in all on the computer instead of having to fiddle about with thousands of cards.
I really only care about the database for locations and monsters though obviously other people will have different needs.
Hawkmoon already has a database, I was really just asking him to share with me in a roundabout way.
Designing an adventure path is already time consuming enough. Its amazing Ron Lundeen did 2.
Ah. Well, my DB is in MS Access. I have a table for locations, a table for scenarios, a table for adventures, a table for adventure paths, a table for characters, a table for roles, and a table for boons and banes (I haven't gotten around yet to making a table for support, especially since the various support cards have vastly different things on them).
For a location, I'd have which path it belonged to, the adventure deck number, what the powers on it are what traits it has (since that is a thing as of WotR) and the counts for building the deck, each as a separate field.
For the boons and banes, I have the adventure path again, the card name, the adventure deck number, the owner (again, a later addition), the traits, checks (multiple fields, like Check_1_Type, Check_1_Diff, Check_2_Type, Check_2_Diff, and that means I need Check_Connector_2), and the powers all as separate fields.
Ah. Well, my DB is in MS Access.
How do you use it to create and randomize decks? Or do you use it for reference purposes only?
Personally,
I'm looking to build a solution to emulate my box for me, so all the shuffling and tracking is done in software. My group has effectively disbanded in RoTR (and we just got our Role Cards!) due to a smattering of newborns, so playing for the foreseeable future will have to be online (email, forum?). They don't have the same familiarity with the cards, and I want to avoid having to type the particulars of each card...
That brings up an interesting concern: Can we play by forum?
A lot of the card text will potentially end up on the Paizo/BGG Forum for search engines to scour and I can't imagine Paizo being completely cool with that. Are there any guidelines for this sort of play? The RPG side isn't really a good example, because the source material is distributed among the players via Handbooks and Guides, where as PACG is a self contained entity.
due to a smattering of newborns,I fail to see why this means anything other than a larger and/or second party. I am disappoint.
Dice are chocking hazards! Know the danger!
cosined:
1) Paizo explicitly turns off forum crawling I think.
2) Forum content is owned by Paizo so they can control it/remove it if they believe it's a concern (BGG is a different story)
3) We are already playing by forum; mostly going by the honor system here in terms of "everyone should have a copy of the game" which is similar to the rules that FFG has; but since the people that are playing right now are such forum regulars that they almost all the PACG stuff anyway.
Ah. So, yeah, now you are talking more about the applications of the db I built. So, I took it and set up another db, in an attempt to emulate the card management of a scenario. It is still a work in progress though. I created tables for the location decks and had to make functions to manage the cards (move to the top, move to the bottom, shuffle the deck, etc). It required flagging cards that players acquired, so they weren't available for random draws and lots of other fun stuff. I geared it towards Paizo forum play by post, hoping it would help me run that more.
It isn't ready for prime time though. And, even if I ever do release it to anyone, it will be sans-cards. So just the db and functions.