Spell Recommendations?


Advice


I'm a lvl 13 human arcane sorcerer, I've been pumping every level bonus into extra spells to expand my list and encourage a versatile selection. I'm looking for advice on versatility in my spell list from 6th up.

I'm following a build spell-wise; Buffs, summons, and battlefield control, with a smattering of blasts and utility spells.

0- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Ghost Sound, Acid Splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Open/Close, Mending, Message

1- Magic Missile, Vanish, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Grease, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, Identify(b)

2- Glitterdust, Levitate, Communal Mount, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image, Invisibility(b), Stone Call, Minor Image

3- Stinking Cloud, Haste, Slow, Aqueous Orb, Fly, Dispel Magic(b), Phantom Steed

4- Black Tentacles, Confusion, Ball Lightning, Stone Shape, Dimension Door (b), Summon Monster IV, Enervation

5- Wall of Stone, Teleport, Overland Flight(b), Cone of Cold, Telekinesis, Magic Jar

6- Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing(b), Disintegrate, Summon Monster VI

Edit: I've been going over my spells and somehow I'm missing a 4th level spell. I should have 8. 4 base, 2 from favored class bonuses, 1 bloodline spell, and 1 from my 9th level bloodline power.


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A couple questions first. What are your feats and how much control do you have in changing this list as it currently exists, like is it set mostly in stone or can you make larger changes if desired?

A few thoughts in no particular order:

1st: I would suggest more immediate action spells here: Liberating Command (pretty much auto save an ally from a grapple) and Windy Escape (negate a critical hit/sneak attack on yourself) are great as they remain useful forever, especially at high levels. Heightened Awareness is also a great spell; 10/min level, dismiss it to get +4 initiative. I would drop Vanish (obsolete, you have Invisibility) and Mage Armor (get a wand or a magic haramaki - the haramaki is better in the long run as you can get armor properties on it like Spell Storing).

2nd: Investigative Mind is very solid; lets you roll twice for knowledge checks and lasts practically forever. Frigid Touch is also nice as though you don't want to be in melee, if you have to be then auto-staggering an enemy with no save can be a life saver as it stops you from eating a full attack; also having this in a Spell Storing armor can save your life for the same reasons. I would suggest dropping Communal Mount (irrelevant at your level) and Minor Image (illusions are iffy, but if they work for you keep it) or Stone Call (at your level most things are probably flying anyway, including your party).

3rd: Contingent Action can be amazing depending on your party; cast it on the fighter so he can move as soon as he sees an enemy and then full attack on his first turn for instance. Battering Blast is a very good blast spell as it does all force damage and hits touch and isn't reflex for half though it does have a reflex save for a rider effect; if you plan on taking Dazing Spell then Battering Blast is a very good delivery system as you can force a single target to make multiple saves against it in the same round while still doing good damage. I would suggest dropping Aqueous Orb (requires to saves for a real effect, moves along the ground so easy to avoid) and Phantom Steed (you have other methods of travel).

4th: Emergency Force Sphere is the best defensive spell in the game as it immediate action stops pretty much everything; I would get it ASAP because at high levels you can be playing rocket tag and you do not want to get tagged first. Greater Invisibility is also great, though it loses some usefulness at your level until you can pick up Mind Blank at level 16; still good to have just in case though. I would drop Confusion (a lot of things are immune) and Summon Monster 4 (lower level summons really do not scale well against level appropriate targets); Ball Lightning is a bit iffy too, but amazing as a Dazing Spell carrier.

5th: Looks good to me. I'd personally go Wall of Force over Stone, but that is really a matter of preference and both are solid. Icy Prison is a nice spell to consider though.

6th: Looks good too. Chains of Light and Contingency are also good choices though.


I should've mentioned this earlier, but my character is Neutral Evil.

Feats are as follows;
Eschew Materials, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Craft Wondrous Item, Combat Casting, Superior Summoning, Improved Initiative, Persistent Spell, Dazing Spell, Scribe Scroll, Still Spell

Though I'm honestly not complaining, a lot of these spells are stuck. I can try replacing Aqueous Orb for battering blast, I could've done it at 12th level because I never used the orb. Wall of Stone is my preference because it doesn't have to be a wall.

I'm not sure how Chains of Light work, but if I need to be good, that'd be a problem. Contingency would definitely help, I could pick that up next level and combine it with my mnemonic vestment and some spells from a certain Stone Giant's spell book collection.

Grand Lodge

Replace phantom steed or fly.

You have overland flight. No need for 3 types of flying.


You're a sorc not a cleric, you can cast spells with the wrong alignment descriptor just fine. Kick an extra puppy every now and then if your GM wants you to change alignment fir casting too many good spells.

If you're asking for versatile higher-level spells to aim for consider greater polymorph, greater scrying and plane shift (level 7) and definitely get quicken spell.


Agreed, not a Cleric, good aligned spells are just as helpful, but a majority of the advice I've been getting here is for spell levels 1 through 6. I'm trying to make leveling much easier for myself, because my GM is using milestones instead of an EXP track, and if we've got to level up during a session he'll warn us in the session prior so we can set up for leveling.

That said, I believe I'm gaining one 6th and one 7th. So Chains of Light for 6th, and plane shift for 7th.

I've got an idea that involves making my own demiplane, and funding it shouldn't be an issue if I can get what I want when I need it, but should I get the Create Lesser, Create, or Create Greater Demiplane?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Replace phantom steed or fly.

You have overland flight. No need for 3 types of flying.

They do represent different options.

1. Fast long duration transit for a one or more people.

2. Personal fast flight speed for short duration.

3. Personal all day flight speed that's a bit faster than walking.

Grand Lodge

LazarX-

If you have Teleport do you really need More long distance Transit for 1 or More people? Let's be honest here.

I can understand Taking Overland Flight and Fly.

Fly being more for Team mates needing to reach places while you can go all day flying with Overland Flight.

Me as a player would only need Teleport and Fly As I can accomplish Long Distance and Group movement with one...and Individual short FLight with another.

But I'm only asking him to get rid of 1 thing...most likely Phantom Steed as it seems to be the most out of Place. Plenty of other things to pick up. Someone Mentioned getting rid of A. Orb but I believe Phantom Steed is the Better replacement.

In my last game I used Teleport to:
Go as far as 8 hours will take the group, Study the area carefully, Teleport back to a nice comfy town to rest, Then the next morning teleport back to the point we stopped and go 8 hours again. Very efficient, Skips night encounters, No need for Rations or camping gear....it is the Superior method of Traveling.

As for 7th level spells+

I recommend Limited Wish pair it with a Page of Spell Knowledge Blood Money (In the down time it is easy to Blood money/Limited wish for Contingency, Permanency and just naturally recover the Ability)

I personally Like:
Spell Turning- This a an amazing Buff
Waves of Exhaustion- No save 60ft Cone of Exhaustion
Form of the Dragon- As long as you speak draconic you can Use this for its Buffs, Flight, and as a blast spell with it's breath weapon
Reverse Gravity- This is really fun.
Control COnstruct- You can at least battle for control and cause it to not be as effective. Not to mention COnstructs are a caster's bane and this put something on your list to deal with them other than wall of stoning them off. If you get lucky and the Constructs master is not present you can use the construct to defeat other Mooks in that particular battle before offing the construct.


Then I'll trade out Phantom Steed for Battering Blast, but again I'm looking for advice on spell levels 6 and up. ALL OF MY SPELLS ARE CURRENTLY STUCK EXCEPT FOR ONE BECAUSE OF A 12TH LEVEL SORCERER ABILITY TO TRADE OUT SPELLS AT EVERY 4TH LEVEL

Grand Lodge

Sorry Blinger I was editing my post with 7+ spells when you posted bro.

Quote:

As for 7th level spells+

I recommend Limited Wish pair it with a Page of Spell Knowledge Blood Money (In the down time it is easy to Blood money/Limited wish for Contingency, Permanency and just naturally recover the Ability)

I personally Like:
Spell Turning- This a an amazing Buff
Waves of Exhaustion- No save 60ft Cone of Exhaustion
Form of the Dragon- As long as you speak draconic you can Use this for its Buffs, Flight, and as a blast spell with it's breath weapon
Reverse Gravity- This is really fun.
Control COnstruct- You can at least battle for control and cause it to not be as effective. Not to mention COnstructs are a caster's bane and this put something on your list to deal with them other than wall of stoning them off. If you get lucky and the Constructs master is not present you can use the construct to defeat other Mooks in that particular battle before offing the construct.

A good majority of Higher level spells will be Meta magic uses of Lower spells.

But 8th:
Maze
Prismatic Wall
Mind Blank
Protection From Spells- +8 Resistance bonus is very nice Lasting for 10 minutes/Level. Great cast before a Dungeon on the ENTIRE group.

9th Level-
Wish
Time Stop
Gate
Crushing Hand


Cool! This'll help me out a lot, but would it be tacky of me to get Plane Shift and Create Lesser Demiplane to create a finite extraplanar home for myself? (Making a different advice thread for that)

Grand Lodge

No its your spell list.

I like plane shift for many reasons...it is solid.

Creat demiplane are decent things...I myself don't use it. DMs tend to screw with me enough trying to neuter my spell effects cause they hate them. Lord knows the DM would try and make something terrible happen with it. So I avoid it. But by all means if you have a DM who is fair to casters and you want to do it....then do it. You already have a solid list of spells and persistent meta magic. You can make a lower spell better than many of the high level spells.


The only issue now is finding a way to make a portable gate in the material plane.


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BlingerBunny wrote:
Then I'll trade out Phantom Steed for Battering Blast, but again I'm looking for advice on spell levels 6 and up. ALL OF MY SPELLS ARE CURRENTLY STUCK EXCEPT FOR ONE BECAUSE OF A 12TH LEVEL SORCERER ABILITY TO TRADE OUT SPELLS AT EVERY 4TH LEVEL

A) Discuss the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign with your GM. They allow retraining of spells known. This is something you may want to take advantage of...

B) Given this possibility I will discuss more than just 6 and up.

C) This advice will also depend a lot on what metamagic you have? For example, do you have Reach spell? How about Heighten spell? Extend Spell? Can you get cheap metamagic rods - eg Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell is only 3000 gp...

0- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Ghost Sound, Acid Splash, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Open/Close, Mending, Message

I would consider switching Resistance for Dancing Lights - Resistance is pretty pointless at this level as you and your friend s should already have a resistance bonus...

1- Magic Missile, Vanish, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Grease, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, Identify(b)

I would drop Mage Armor, again, at this level everyone should have a better armor bonus already. If you need it to buff for followers, a 1st level wand is cheap. Vanish is also pretty iffy as you have Invisibility... Instead, consider Snowball (especially if you have Rime spell), True Strike, Sure Casting, Ear Piercing Scream (extended and/or heightened), Moment of Greatness (especially if you have a Bard in the party)

2- Glitterdust, Levitate, Communal Mount, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image, Invisibility(b), Stone Call, Minor Image

I would retrain levitate - you have other methods of flying, and I am not in love with Communal Mount; at this level people who can ride have their own mounts - usually monstrous. Also, Stone Call is kind of outclassed by this point. Consider False Life (can be a life saver), bestow insight (strongly boosts skill checks and insight bonuses are uncommon), Blur (another strong defensive spell), Rope Trick (it's a classic), Web (another classic).

3- Stinking Cloud, Haste, Slow, Aqueous Orb, Fly, Dispel Magic(b), Phantom Steed

I would retrain Fly, as you have overland flight. I personally don't love Aqueous Orb, nor phantom steed (especially if you don't have the ride skill...)
Consider Communal Darkvision (you're human, are you friends human? Darkvision is really useful), Fireball (especially if you have Dazing spell), Protection from Energy, Major Image, Magic Circle (Planar binding is a really Potent tool)

4- Black Tentacles, Confusion, Ball Lightning, Stone Shape, Dimension Door (b), Summon Monster IV, Enervation

I don`t really like Stone shape, as I believe you can access it through summon monster, and I don`t like SM IV, as you have SM VI.

I would consider Dimensional Anchor (Binding again, and can be really useful against teleport happy enemies), Greater Invisibility, Calcific Touch (especially if you have reach spell - share the effect with your familiar and deliver several touches per round), Scrying, Charm Monster, Emergency Force Sphere

5- Wall of Stone, Teleport, Overland Flight(b), Cone of Cold, Telekinesis, Magic Jar

All of these are strong except Cone of Cold.
Would consider Icy Prison, Suffocation (both of these are Nasty save or lose spells, which have effects even if the target saves...),

6- Greater Dispel Magic, True Seeing(b), Disintegrate, Summon Monster VI

Disintegrate is not love (save and to hit roll, then damage isn`t that huge; things that miss fort saves should just lose).
Planar Binding is very strong (but would be retrain bait when Greater becomes available),anti-magic field (sometimes this is just a win button), Cold Ice Strike (this is only good because it`s a swift action...), Acid Fog, Flesh to Stone

7 Consider : Greater Teleport (can retrain Teleport), Simalcrum, Reverse Gravity, SM VII, Limited Wish, Greater Scrying (can retrain scrying)

8 Consider : Undead Anatomy IV (Breath weapons and Ghost/undead dragons, Gorgons, etc, ), Greater Planar Binding, Moment of Prescience, Polymorph Any Object, Mind Blank, SM VIII, Prediction of Failure, Trap the Soul, Clenched Fist, Irresistable Dance,

9 Consider: Disjunction, Gate, Timestop, Wish, Dominate Monster

also, consider items carefully, for example, a 1st level wand of Shield is cheap, and lasts long enough for a fight. Also there are several situational or downtime spells on this list (eg scrying, simalcrum). Things like Mnemonic vestments can allow you find sources for your spells other than your personal spells known...


I'll talk to my GM about retraining, if my character has the time, because the campaign in question is Rise of the Runelords and we've already killed of Mokmurian, and the schedule seems to be very tight, unless my GM wants to give us some time in game to get some things done.

Keeping Disintegrate for the benefit of destruction of property. I can't lose fly because I've given the brawler that ability on a few occasions. Cone of Cold was more of a situation spell because we encountered two red dragons and I wanted the spell to make quick work of them. Never saw them after the first encounter though which sucked.

Also, you're going to have to explain the importance of Planar Binding to me, and what creatures I should summon with it. This is a ton of research I'm going through.

I get Greater Teleport for free at 15th level;
I'll replace Mage Armor, Vanish, Levitate, Communal Mount, Stone Call, Phantom Steed, Stone Shape, Summon Monster IV, and Cone of Cold.'

I will replace them with Blood Money, Moment of Greatness, False Life, Blur, Web, Fireball, Dimensional Anchor, Charm Monster, and Suffocation.

That's a lot of time to work things out. 10 x CL14 x 48 days = 6720g. I'll talk with my GM to expedite this, making it a matter of relativity.

As for the spells I'm going to get, Contingency at 6th, and Limited Wish at 7th. Blood Money + Contingency + Limited Wish to give me the benefits of Heal when I drop below 10 hp.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
As for the spells I'm going to get, Contingency at 6th, and Limited Wish at 7th. Blood Money + Contingency + Limited Wish to give me the benefits of Heal when I drop below 10 hp.

Limited wish for contingency.

Limited wish let's you cast ANY 6th level or lower wizard spell
Or
Any 5th level or lower spell from the other classes.

You will need to have someone provide the heal or use it from a scroll to get heal contingency. But it is a strong option.

You can do this for permanancy as well.


So confusing... But imagine a Persistent Suffocation. Also, I've got a UMD of 17 so all I really need is the scroll. And since I've technically got access to all 6th level spells, so Flesh to Stone?

Wait; Can I make a contingent spell permanent? Ugh... Let me make this clearer. I cast Contingency, to activate Heal whenever I drop to a certain hp, then I cast permanency on the contingency so that it never goes away, and it always triggers whenever I get that low on health, no need to recast.

I think I'll need to work on when to use blood money, because I've only got 7 strength and the blood money + limited wish combo takes 3 strength to pull off.


If possible I would drop Communal Mount, and replace it with Communal Protection From Evil. When you want that one it's probably best to hit everyone. And when you get to the point where you have Teleport... you really think you will summon Mounts much?

As far as replacing first level Protection From Evil, well there are good ones even at first level. I'm partial to Unseen Servant, I've always found lots of uses for this even at higher levels. Plus it is cool to have.

Liberty's Edge

The various 'cast any lower level spell of XYZ type' spells (e.g. Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation, Limited Wish, Wish) are pure gold for sorcerers. Sure, shadow magic doesn't deal full damage all the time, but there are plenty of conjuration and evocation spells that are useful regardless of damage.

For example, if you take 'Shadow Conjuration' then you can use that to create the effects of 'Phantom Steed' or 'Communal Mount'... freeing up those spells to be replaced by something else.

Grand Lodge

Quote:


Wait; Can I make a contingent spell permanent? Ugh... Let me make this clearer. I cast Contingency, to activate Heal whenever I drop to a certain hp, then I cast permanency on the contingency so that it never goes away, and it always triggers whenever I get that low on health, no need to recast.

You can not unless the DM says you can. But as Written and Intended no.

Contingency is a Free action activation. and Giving you Heal every time you drop below 10 HP will eliminate a lot of Danger of the Game. And it will greatly increase your Action economy. For a DM that is a bad thing. I would make my Player use a scroll or get it from another party Member every time.

Quote:

So confusing... But imagine a Persistent Suffocation. Also, I've got a UMD of 17 so all I really need is the scroll. And since I've technically got access to all 6th level spells, so Flesh to Stone?

I think I'll need to work on when to use blood money, because I've only got 7 strength and the blood money + limited wish combo takes 3 strength to pull off.

Buy a wand of Lesser restoration. Use your nice UMD score. You can then fix your problem. I recommend doing Permanency and contingency on your off days. Contingency lasts for a few days so you can do your little combo and rest to recover or use a wand and go the following day.

Then you have all your spells for the adventuring day and your pre-buffed up with Contingency and Permanency.

Then you can use your Limited wish to do spells like Flesh to stone or cast a Rare utility spell that would by-pass some problems or solve a problem. Then use that Wand of Lesser restoration when you have a few rounds of Down time (Right after the battle) to fix your Ability.


I like the duration on Phantom Steed, and it's good for places that you've never been, unlike teleport. Plus, at the OP's level, those steeds are getting really good.

+1 for retraining, certain spells are just redundant now, like levitate.

+1 for shadow conjuration, maze, limited wish, and keeping disintegrate.

I vote against greater teleport. If you teleport and you're off-target (rare), just teleport a second time. That's the point of being a sorcerer.

And for sheer fun, I really like magic jar.


LazarX wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Replace phantom steed or fly.

You have overland flight. No need for 3 types of flying.

They do represent different options.

1. Fast long duration transit for a one or more people.

2. Personal fast flight speed for short duration.

3. Personal all day flight speed that's a bit faster than walking.

Yes, but these are all good scroll, wand, staff type spells. No need to be taking up known spells with all three.


LV 1)Sure Casting, Ray of Enfeeblement, Infernal Healing, Anticipate Peril. All good on pages of spell knowledge.

I'll post more later.

LV 4)
Shadow Projection -> This spell ha an insanely high level of power (not in sunlight). A lot of people just cannot do anything against shadows' damage.

LV 6)
Elemental Assessor -> deal damage and guess what you should target for elemental damage.
Permanent Image -> let your imagination do your pleasure. Prepare a lot.
Mass Suggestion -> By trying enough you can make your enemies severely cripple themselves ("Disarm, remove and get rid of any of your carried possessions. Hinder yourselves for the purpose of recollecting them later." may be a good example).

Grand Lodge

Quote:


I like the duration on Phantom Steed, and it's good for places that you've never been, unlike teleport. Plus, at the OP's level, those steeds are getting really good

Yes the steed is nice but he has communal Mount spell too.

Maybe if he wanted communal Phantom steed...but honestly for travel nothing beats just going forward 8 hours, study the area, Teleport back to a safe place to rest/sleep/eat Like a town, then teleport where you stopped and move forward.

The issue with moving too fast is 2 fold:

-Crafting time in a day. Hurried crafting takes 4 hours...if your teleporting back to the same place you can work on an item every day.

-You might miss out on a side quest if you just fly over an area. Then you miss out on good story, Loot, and Exp (if you keep track of it)

I think he can get by with communal mount, Fly, Teleport (and greater, and Overland Flight (bloodline)

but Overland flight is Nice when Paired with a Extend Rod the night before...Cast it, Sleep, and have all day flight. Summon Mounts for the rest of the group and just fly over the heads of the group.

Quote:
Yes, but these are all good 'wand' spells. No need to be taking up known spells with all three.

Too much gold for a 3rd level wand. And the CL on them if bought is minimum. Not worth it... Out of the ones I mentioned the Phantom Steed is the most redundant considering the rest of his list.

And I believe the OP is all for dropping Phantom steed anyways for Battering Blast


I can only carry 75lb at a time, heavy load, but yeah, I'm getting limited wish. We've even conveniently got the scroll and a diamond worth 1500g just for that purpose.

Grand Lodge

Make a Handy haversack for your Main stuff like gold, potions and scrolls.

Make a Efficient Quiver for Rods and wands.

You should have no issue with weight only having roughly 30lbs on you at any given time.


BlingerBunny wrote:


Also, you're going to have to explain the importance of Planar Binding to me, and what creatures I should summon with it. This is a ton of research I'm going through.

....
As for the spells I'm going to get, Contingency at 6th, and Limited Wish at 7th. Blood Money + Contingency + Limited Wish to give me the benefits of Heal when I drop below 10 hp.

Regarding Planar Binding, this is a pretty good thread

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qqbb?DMDMs-Guide-to-Planar-Binding#1

Don't bother with Contingency, Limited Wish can do that job on it's own...

I would also reccomend Icy Prison ahead of Suffocation. It's a reflex save, which is commonly worse than fortitude for high level creatures. It is also very effective against casters - even if they make their save, they are taking continuous damage, and reflex is a weak save for all 9-level casters (and the 6 level casters except Bards, alchemists and investigators) (oh yeah, and Mesmerists).


I've got a handy haversack for my immediate need items like potions, scrolls, wands, and rods, but I've got a Bag of holding type 3 for other loot.

I'm gonna stay away from planar binding, because I don't want to deal with what my GM can come up with. He's been at this for a while and he runs his own business too, really good at it, I might add.

I'll go with Icy Prison instead, but Suffocation looked pretty sweet because you'll have trouble casting without air in your lungs.


Due to lack of character funds, I'm going to work something out for myself. I'm not going to replace Mage Armor, but I am going to replace Vanish with Blood Money.

Remember that I've got access to all CRB spells up to 6th level, because of a set of books I recovered from the liar runt Mokmurian, in the Rise of the Runelords campaign.

I'm gonna take, Limited Wish for my first 7th level spell, but I'm stuck between Chain Lightning and Mass Suggestion as my 6th, though I'm favoring Chain Lightning.


I'd try to work a Pit spell in there somewhere.

Hungry Pit + Telekineses is awesome


Pit spells are amazing for fighting golems (assuming they can fit). So is wall of stone, and "Chains of Light"

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