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I don't see a scale and compass rose. That would instantly get you disqualified. Lack of key is also a big problem. These are crucial things every map should have.
You submitted this image prior to the reveal of the top 32. If you got into the top 32, you would have to make a new map as posting your entry elsewhere prior the end of voting will disqualify you.
There's a lack of clarity with this map, and I have trouble figuring out the details of this map. There's no key and the textures you use feel very busy. It's not totally clear what's a wall and what's stone floor. I can't even see the doors and windows clearly. I run my games online via MapTool. The biggest problem I've faced with using maps created with programs like this was when the mapper didn't clearly indicate doors and windows, and I had to invent my own. That's not a situation you want to put the GM into. If you look at professional maps by Paizo and other companies, they use the standard map symbols instead of actually drawing a door.
This doesn't look like a wererat place. Wererats make traps and rely on swarming, stealth, and sneak attacks to overwhelm enemies. This place looks like it would be very difficult to ambush intruders. There's also no indication of traps and other hazards.
The entrances to this place seem to cut off, not making it obvious where the PCs can enter from.
It's obvious you know your tool very well. Aside from the above issues, the layout of the map looks decent. However, it suffers from clarity problems and generally feels very unfinished.
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I agree with Trekkie and Garrick, nothing in the map suggests wererats, and the map would make a lot more sense above ground than in the sewers. In some ways, the waterways remind me of Venice. Making the map a fantasy version of a town built like Venice would have been pretty awesome, actually. Everyone's adventured in the sewers before, so you're not breaking any new ground here.
The lack of doors is quite jarring, but it doesn't bother me that there are no windows (because you're supposedly in the sewers).
The thing I like the best about the map is that there is some interesting terrain: water, rickety bridges, and a few pipes you can crawl through! So, fighting a bunch of sufficiently mobile monsters on the map would be interesting. The PCs would have to choose whether they want to wade through water (possibly encountering more dangers in the water), jump over it, or risk walking on the rickety bridges.
The geometry of the map is really "boxy", there's very little that breaks the monotony of perfectly straight lines and rectangular shapes. I don't know if your using a mapping program with clip art rather than drawing the map has something to do with that, but I do think that hand-drawn maps often have a more "organic" feel to them.
Don't get me wrong--straight lines are useful because they're easy to draw on a grid and it's easier to adjudicate movement and distance on a boxy map, not to mention it makes sense for many buildings to be rectangular. The trick is to include "just enough" interesting geometry, not to make every line curved or diagonal.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka CalebTGordan
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I have to echo the sentiments of the other people here. When I look at this map I do not see a sewer. I see a group of buildings built above the water in a swamp or lake. I can forgive the clean look of the water, walkways, and areas, as you used a program with its own textures and tiles instead of using your own. You probably didn't have the brownish green water you needed, or the grunge associated with sewers.
Some of the rooms do not seem to have a way for people to get in and out of them, and I am not entirely sure about the purpose of some of the areas.
While I do see indications that you thought your map through, a bit more research into sewers would have done some good. Sewers are drains, and what we see here doesn't show this. Think of sewers as a series of pipes, lines, and underground rivers. Pipes from buildings lead to larger lines that Small characters could probably crawl through. These lead to main lines that flow away from neighborhoods, and are what we typically see people walking through. Everything grows larger with the needs of the buildings, neighborhoods, and city depending on the city and the neighborhood's needs. In New York, for example, large buildings have massive drain pipes with big pumps to push the waste water into the sewers, which lead to great drainage systems that can handle all the buildings feeding into it. Lastly, everything leads out to river or ocean, or at least in that direction if it is going to a treatment center. A great sewer map plays with this pattern and system, and should have indications of what type of city or neighborhood it is under.
Sewers are also not always filled with water, with the winter or spring being the wettest. I am assuming it is sometime in spring with all the water in your map.
Overall, you have a good map, but I wouldn't call it superstar. More research would have helped you (Paizo has a few sewer maps that could have helped in figuring out some of the details) and there isn't much there that indicates what is going on in it. It could be used in multiple encounters, but I see very little opportunity to use obstacles typical in a sewer. Good work, keep at it, and I hope you do end up being able to submit a map to RPGSS some day.
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Ok, beyond what others have said, Taylor and Mikko included (good to see you out in cyberland BTW lads!) the first thing that strikes me about this map is the plethora of right angles. Sewers rarely have right angles. More often than not the tunnels are round or arched.
From a strictly RPGSS angle, a sewer is not new or exciting as an adventure location. As location tropes go this is a long standing one, wererats included. This is one of those know your audience issues. RPGSS voters are often (but not always) long time gamers, so to excite or wow them, you need to think outside the box. Had you presented this as one of the top 32, well, it is allot of...boxes. And, in complete honesty I would not have voted for it, nor would I accept this as something The Flying Pincushion would publish. The no key or compass are missteps that no publisher or editor could ignore BTW.
Thus, I have to ask a question, did this map excite you as a player or a GM when you made it? If the answer is no, then there is your strongest indicator that a map of this type is not RPGSS material. Now, please do not mistake my criticism for anything but professional, but on the same line, if I sugar coated anything for you, I would be doing the industry and you a disservice.
Best advice I can offer, when competing in RPGSS next year (and I urge you to do so) continually ask yourself my above question. Add to that, have I seen this before, am I playing it safe in my design? Also, get a pit crew, bounce your ideas off them, I suspect it will help you become a better designer. I say this from personal experience, and know for a fact the only way to become a better designer is to fail, pick yourself up, admit to yourself where you went wrong, and try again.
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It's a lovely dungeon map; I love the layout and it's aesthetically very pleasing. I agree with the other posters that it doesn't quite have the sewer look I think you were going for, but it would be awesome as something like a thieves' lair in a river-trade town or something. You obviously have a good sense of space, so it's time to work on a sense of story. Your map can't merely look good, it has to tell a story, give GMs ideas. It also has to have some internal logic, and show some research--look up what some actual sewers look like, for example, before drawing a sewer lair. Think from the wererats' perspective as to what kind of space they would live in and what features it would have (CC3 has loads of "debris" images so you weren't lacking for decorative options by sticking to that program).
I can't comment on it as I would for round 2, because you don't have it labeled, legended, or your 50 word text to support it. The important thing to remember for round 2 is the point is to design a location for an encounter from a designer's point of view, not just merely to make the prettiest map. This isn't a cartography contest, it's a game design contest, and folks who confuse the two in Round 2 seldom advance. Every single entry in this contest boils down to "what story do you tell in this?" even if it's just an item, monster, or map. You can have artistic skill out the wazoo, but if you can't tell a story with your image, then you're not a Superstar.
From your various posts around here, your pride in your mapping work is clear. And I can see from your deviantart page, you indeed display talent. I urge you, only because I hope you can be successful in the area that you're passionate about, to consider why you'd enter Superstar... versus, say, a mapping competition held by Profantasy. Make sure you're pursuing the avenues that get you where you want to go. If your focus is on cartography, Superstar probably isn't the thing for you.
If you DO think Superstar is the thing for you, then my advice would be don't practice mapping -- obviously, you've got that bit down. You need to practice all the OTHER things that get someone through this contest, from item design through to monsters, encounters, and of course the pitch. I think especially encounter design would be a good thing for you to focus on. Once you've refined a sense of what makes a good encounter, you can map a location for it that will knock people's socks off.
The other VERY CRUCIAL THING if you enter Superstar is . "Public" includes anywhere on the Internet. As Garrick correctly noted, you posted your entry publicly to DeviantArt, and both because you posted it publicly elsewhere AND, making matters worse, prior to when Round 2 began, you would have been disqualified even if you had made it into Round 2. Also, talking about it in DeviantArt counts as "discussing your entry." Superstar contestants cannot talk, discuss, or post about their entries ANYWHERE, not just avoiding the Paizo boards.
Also, perhaps you are not aware, but anything you submit as an entry to Superstar becomes Paizo's intellectual property. If you had gotten into Superstar, entered this map into the contest, and THEN published it on DeviantArt, Paizo would have the right to ask (or even force) you to remove your map on DeviantArt as it would own the rights to it.
My final advice based on the above is to read the rules carefully as your actions suggest you did not do so. Failing to fully read the rules is only going to get you in danger of disqualification, no matter how awesome an entry you have.
Good luck with your mapping and I hope you find an appropriate venue to submit your work.
Star Voter Season 9
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I think this map is good for a home game but would have been a dud in RPGSS because it is, quite frankly, bog standard. I see that you are using Campaign Cartographer, and the beauty of that software package is that it can get you a decent map quickly but I have noticed that unless you are a master with it it is almost impossible to make a map that pops. Based on checking previous entries, it is my belief that using mapping software for RPGSS is actually detrimental to your entry because what they excel at (making a map that is graphically attractive) is not what your graded on; it's making a map that pushes the boundaries of creativity and that is inhibited by having a medium that provides you with a limited symbol set and that is primarily geared for right angles. Honestly, your better off using graph paper and pencils even if you have lousy drawing skills.
Star Voter Season 9
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Since I knew I was not Advancing I did not Include a Legend..No Need for it
Since I knew I was not advancing I did not included "Secret Doors" and "Traps" and other things I don't want My Players seeing right off the Bat..
Since I knew I was not advancing I did not slap a Compass rose on it
And I felt it was UnNeccessary To Include them on the Shared Version of the Maps so Others Can Orientate the Map How they want to in their Games.
I have Versions where the Hidden Areas are Blocked Over
I have Versions with Traps and Secret Doors included
I have Gridded and UnGridded Versions of all the Maps..Just a Mouse Click Away if I want or Need them.
Since I knew I was Not Advancing I did post it before the Conclusion of the Contest...even before Round 1 was over..IT would have taken a Miracle from God to have eliminated/disqualified enough people to have made it since Idid not make it past the 2nd Cull in the first round.
It never was Submitted to Paizo, So No Worries about being asked to take it down.
Since I knew I was not Advancing I was Not Worried about getting Disqualified for Sharing it.
Blue = water ....Sorry Not enough Artwork in my Campaign Cartographer To differientiate between Drinking, Swimming Pool waters and Yuck filled Stagnant Waters...
Since I Print my Own Maps out at my Expense..I don't include every minute Detail..Unless I know I will be displaying it Digitally then I try to include more details..which peaks the players interest by sight..However I have an Older Computer system not a Graphic Designer System so I was lucky to get it saved at 72 DPI...I would love to get a Newer Fancy system so I can do 300 DPI Detailed Maps someday.
The Completed Series lay out will look like this
1, 2, 3
4, 5, 6
7, 8, 9
1,2,4,7 Are Engineered Areas.
3,5,6,8,9 are Naturals Areas
This Area is not the Main Area under control of the Wererats..So it is not Overly trashed out...
The Obvious Entrances are
Top Left Corner..
Bottom Left Corner
Easily found Entrances are
Ladder Up/Down on the Lower Middle Platform
Ladder Up/Down on Platform at end of Series of Wooden
Other ways in While in the Sewer System
Through the Bars
Small Pipe through wall upper right.
Easily Found entrances to the Secret rooms
Through the Pipes
Hard to find Secret Door
Store Room with Stairs going up..
Mysteries from this Map..Do the Pipes go anywhere?
Where do the Ladders and Stairs Lead to?
""This must be a large city for there to be so many rooms, and yet the flow-ways are only 5 feet wide; I would expect much larger for a populated area, especially one congested with buildings such as this."" This is just a Single Area not the Whole Complex...Within the Confines of the Rules..This Area Meets the 24 x 30 Map
""The presence of barrels and other foodstuffs is also presented in a way which leads me to think of a highly civilized area; not the ostracized, sewage dwelling organization of a were-rat. These things should look scrounged, worse for wear (they're in a sewer after all), and be positioned out of the way, where the rats can find them and others would have to face some peril to get close.""...so who is Leaving the Items in the Sewer and Why?
Why Does the Wererats have to Scrounge for Food?
Could they be a main members of a Rogue's Guild
Could they Be a Evil Overloard's Minions?
""Thus, I have to ask a question, did this map excite you as a player or a GM when you made it?""....Yes it Did..
Designed to Challenge My Players..Perception Checks, Acrobatic Moves...Jumping, Balancing..Etc...
Are they Excited...I get Praised for all the time I put into the Maps, and they Love playing on them...
Outside of Paizo Forums..I am getting Numerous Request to Hurry up and Finish the series as others are wanting to use them..Unfortunately I am Now Working 6 12 Hour Days. So I no longer have the 4 on 4 off Schedule I had before and don't get much time to Map.
If Dundjinni worked on this system I could do a Better Map..YES..I had more Art and even Transparent Masks so I could over lay Items and make them appear underwater.
Bit of an Irony..
On these Forums When I do More Shadows and Such..I usually get Complaints about the Maps being to Dark, and Unrealistic because No Light Sources.
When I include more Details I usually get complaints about the Maps being to cluttered and un-printable cheeply.
To Boxy???? Funny when I do More Funky Layouts..People complain that they can't easily hand-draw my Maps because the don't end up on Grids Right :)
This Map and designed to be print at size.
This Map is designed to be displayed Digitally
Why Did I enter RPGSuper Star....for the fun of it
Will I enter again ...Most like Never again
Do I espire to be a Game Designer...No
My Desire..To give back to the Game Community..Can I accomplish that without Winning RPGSuper..YEs I can, and I currently do..By Providing Converted Maps for Free to Players since Paizo does not currently provide Maps for VTT or Printable Battlemaps. And They Don't do Gridded and Ungridded Versions.
In that case, I'm not really sure what feedback you're looking for, JPSTOD.
If cartography's more up your alley than game design, I can help with that. If you want to make maps that really stand out, don't limit yourself to a single tool. After finishing work in Campaign Cartographer, try exporting it to Photoshop and painting over it to add details and features that would be difficult to achieve with CC3. This would also help eliminate that busy "generated" look CC or dundjinni maps tend to have. I do illustration and use many different software applications for my work.
JPSTOD, this community was offering you constructive feedback both here and in the Critique my Item thread. In both places the mature professional reaction is to thank people and learn so you can do better in the contest next time. Instead you have chosen in both places to react defensive and butthurt at the well intentioned feedback from your peers.
I'd offer you advice on how to turn it around but to be blunt, you've demonstrated that you will not listen.
Your stated intentions are noble ones I can relate to, but the first, best, and easiest place to carry out your desire to give back is to be a better citizen. Asking for feedback and then taking it poorly is not a good citizenship. Disparaging your competition and...
Never mind, there's no point in trying to help you.
Good luck with your future endeavors.
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Star Voter Season 9
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*post that reads like a ransom note*
Honestly, I really have no idea what you are looking for at this point. You posted this map on the RPGSS forum with the title "THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN MY MAP ENTRY"... I assumed this was a request for criticism from that lens. However, since that is apparently not what you are looking for, I will give my criticism both as a home GM and as a PFS GM.
For my home games, I play using VTT software and, in order to support that, I have picked up a copy of CC3 and I have developed some rudimentary skills in it. Your maps are on par with what I can produce myself, so I would use your maps in my games but I wouldn't seek them out. Also, if I paid for your maps then I would be disappointed because they don't have the pop I would expect from a commercial product. I make this judgement from all the maps on your deviant art account, not just the one you linked.
For PFS games, I prefer simpler maps because I have to draw the darn things on a flip mat. More than once, I've seen maps in scenarios that were needlessly complex or they didn't fit on the standard sized flip mat. Therefore, the map you provided, as long as all parts were used, would be great viewed from that lens.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka CalebTGordan
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Because I know people could stumble in here in the future to try to find something to learn:
When you show someone in this industry something your have worked on and they give you feedback, that is a good indication that it wasn't terrible and that they want to see you do more. If someone doesn't give you feedback in a situation like this one, it probably means they don't like it or don't see much point in giving feedback. Once you have gained feedback it is up to you how you use it, but do not seem ungrateful nor adversarial.
Now, you can defend your work, and in some situations you most certainly should defend your decisions. What you can't do is dismiss the feedback, ignore it, or be angry about it. If you can't take critisim, feedback, or even complaints about your work with grace, this is not the industry for you. If you get angry when people point out flaws, this isn't the industry for you.
Also, if you show people something in a public place like this you need to expect feedback. If you are only showing people something so they can praise you and tell you how perfect it is, you are going to be terribly disapointed in the result of your efforts.
You can do things in the pursuit of giving back to the community and industry, but do so with grace and professionalism.
Baring in mind I'm fairly inexperienced and therefore I'm not exactly the best judge:
It is pretty, I'll give you that. Definitely more attractive than a number of the other maps. It would be nice and easy to draw onto my actual flip-map, which is another plus. Those are both things you've focused on, and you've done them well. Even if doing one makes the other sort of redundant, well done.
The actual map however is not very exciting. You have what I call a McDonald's Product: It looks amazing in the picture, but the actual thing is terrible.
I'm assuming it's 5 feet squares, but I'm not sure. You haven't got the scale on it. One of the things I always forget is how big 5 feet actually is (silly pathfinder and its antiquated measuring systems), but doing that conversion... wow. That is a huge sewer. And having little buildings in there? Either these were-rats are ludicrously rich and have paid to have the sewer expanded or the designer and everyone involved in its construction was a complete nutcase because it simply couldn't function as a sewer. That alone kills the vibe you were trying to give it for me. As a character finding this, I would be completely baffled and probably start trying to disbelieve things.
As other people have mentioned, it does seem a lot like it would be better as a sort of Venician city than a sewer. You don't run into that big problem so much then. There's a lot you can explain away with magic in construction. Although it's still really unnecessarily large. Those rooms are huge and too widely spaced.
As far as I can see, there are a few rooms with no way in or out; they're just blocked off by stone walls on every side.
Depending on what sort of characters you have in your party, it's sometimes very important to know just how high the ceilings are, which is something you should probably have put in your map description. On the same note, some sort of indications of heights and depths of various regions would be appreciated. That building down in the bottom for example I can't tell if the little wooden things are supposed to be ladders or piers.
Even with my extremely limited experience, I've seen maps with a more interesting locale and features done on the fly. And in sewers, from time to time. I've seen better maps made with random generators. Your map suffers a lot from being too generic and fitting poorly where it's supposed to fit. If it had turned up in voting I probably would have skipped it without a second glance. I can't see it being used by anyone particularly.
Never forget: Just because a map looks pretty doesn't mean it's actually good or exciting. Your imagination is still primarily responsible for most of the imagery.
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Critique aside, thanks for starting up the thread. I should draw up some of the ideas I've had floating around. See how good my first ever map I've drawn myself turns out. Are people fine with me just taking a photo of my actual flip-map?
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Star Voter Season 9
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I ain't butthurt. I Addressed why the Map had no Compass Rose or Legend..When I look for Useable Battlemaps I look for Maps without UnNecessary Clutter on them. Maps that are pretty much self Explanitory..Why I designed it this way.
But I do Question What "sharing the Map and Discussing it" has to do with the Map itself?
Why that was involved in the Critique of the Map?
Or What My Desires to Win a Designer Contest has to do with the Map?
Is the Map clear?
Is the Map Useable as is?
Do you think someone could plop and use it as is?
Not if you would use it personally?
I simply addressed some of the Issues that were presented.
Reading most of the Critiques People kept saying...Don't judge the Map on the Artistic Presentation because the Context of the Theme is Suppose to be turned over to a "Professional" Cartographer who would produce the Map. The Maps were suppose to be Judged on wheather or not a Professional could "enhance" the Map as presented to them. So based on this, anyone think a Professional Cartographer could do that without a 5000 Word Manual and Describtion?
I addressed some of the Critiques Such as Not Ratty Enough...Not Right color of Sewer water. This Area of the Sewer is not intended to be Dingy and Stanky.
""I'm assuming it's 5 feet squares, but I'm not sure. You haven't got the scale on it."" Yes the Scale is 1"=5 FT. I did intentionally leave of the Scale for printing purposes. None of My purchased Paizo Flipmaps have a Scale on them.
""Also, if I paid for your maps then I would be disappointed because they don't have the pop I would expect from a commercial product. I make this judgement from all the maps on your deviant art account, not just the one you linked."" Well If I were to Sale Maps. Yes I would not make them as Simple as I do now. And I just started really using the Deviant Art account although I had it for a while because people were wanting the Larger Files to use..not just small JPG files of the Maps..Several of the Maps were requested simple Maps done for Free. I wouldn't sale a Map sight unseen. I don't buy products I can't review first either. I don't pay for a Dungeon 0003 Map before looking to see if I would like it first.
"" After finishing work in Campaign Cartographer, try exporting it to Photoshop and painting over it to add details and features that would be difficult to achieve with CC3. This would also help eliminate that busy "generated" look CC or dundjinni maps tend to have. I do illustration and use many different software applications for my work."" If I was to sale Maps I would look into this but I simply can not Justify the Time and Effort it takes to do this for Free Maps. Nor the time to learn another program. Also I have not taken the Time to Experiment with what CC3 can truely do on Maps. I have not changed any Settings for Effects. If and When I go totally Digital I may do this. But since I can barely get a 72 DPI File Saved. I ain't gonna try and do it as of Now. Feel free to Play around with Map. Make some Photoshop Varients.
""The entrances to this place seem to cut off, not making it obvious where the PCs can enter from."' True, but one of the Most like Entries that did make into the Competition was a Multilevel Map...With No Direct Access to the "lair" yet when I pointed it out in My Critque to that Map everyone said it was okay because they knew Staires went down..If you were to just plop my Map down you could move around it without having to move the Minis off the Map or pick up the Minis and jump a Distance over the Map.
""Depending on what sort of characters you have in your party, it's sometimes very important to know just how high the ceilings are, which is something you should probably have put in your map description. On the same note, some sort of indications of heights and depths of various regions would be appreciated."" When it was first present the rules and discussion presented the Map as a 24x30 1"=5 Ft Scale Battlemap/Flipmap. None of the Flip Maps I own from Paizo have any of this Information included
""That building down in the bottom for example I can't tell if the little wooden things are supposed to be ladders or piers.""
If you click on the Picture it Enlarges. You can easily see the one Leaning againts the wall is a ladder..The Ones over the Water represents Landings of Some Sort.
I did get inspired to get Unlazy and get around to finishing Area 2..If your Interested in Continuity of the Maps..If you want to discuss It Look for it on Facebook RPG Map Share or on Cartographer's Guild. Should be Finished uploading soon on Diviant and I may share on Cartographer's Guild tomorrow also.
Okay, here we go, keeping with the rules as much as possible...
During a great storm off the coast of Andoran, the Salty Dog and her crew of Gnoll Pirates was lifted up on a huge wave and wedged tight in a gap in the cliff face. While the ship is destroyed, the nearby cave serves as a base for the pirates.
50 words exactly. So much more I'd like to say and explain, but this'll have to do.
Again, this is my first map, and taking a photo isn't necessarily the best way of doing it, but it sort of works.
Hm, I really should have indicated that I used blue to indicate lower regions and red for higher regions. I would have used black for even lower regions but my black marker died. Threw it together probably quicker and less well than if I'd actually got it this far; mostly this was one of the favourite options from the ideas I threw around with some friends, but the map itself didn't have any input from anyone but me.
There is also a big picture down at the bottom next to the scale and direction marker which makes the colour choices clearer.
Unlike the security blanket which I really should have picked up on, I'm not actually familiar with the things you're mentioning it as similar to. I suppose it's a bit like lord of the flies, but I don't particularly remember the ship being in a position like it is, and it's definitely not something I was considering when I did it. But it does mean my concept's not quite as novel as I thought it was, which is a shame for me. Maybe my thieving creative mind has tripped me up again.
After the ship, cave and cliff faces were drawn in there wasn't a lot of space left for much else, which I would have liked to have included. The topography required in this one was probably too ambitious for a first map.
I've probably clarified enough to disqualify myself already, so I'll leave things for now. I really wanted a little more word count which would address a few more things that you'd mentioned, but in keeping with the spirit of an actual entry I'll leave it.
But thanks for the feedback! This probably would have been one of the areas I would have been weakest at in the competition.
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JPSTOD, I love seeing new faces wanting an active role in the community. However, RPG Superstar's community thrives on self-improvement for the purpose of producing professional work. People get involved with hopes of getting jobs in the industry as designers, developers, cartographers, authors, etc. Showing a piece of work and admitting you couldn't be bothered to finish it or put more effort does not really align with the attitude of RPG Superstar. I'd love to see something from you that really shows your A-game.
Also, flip maps don't have a scale or compass rose because they're not designed to map a specific location. Flip maps function as battlemaps for GMs to reuse across campaigns. Flip maps have a different purpose than maps you find in published adventures.
I suppose as JPSTOD has shown (and now me), sometimes the notes you put in yourself can be more of a hindrance than a help. I think I might be glad that
Clarification is an important part of revision to be sure, but I'd like to see how people would react if this was an actual map I'd submitted before clarifying further. As you say, a superstar map should speak for itself, which I'm beginning to realise I probably could have done better at.
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The big-picture image really helped, as a note the cave should have been outlined in blue there in addition to the ladder heading down from above.
Re word count: Remember they're cutting that from future submissions. Superstar maps should speak for themselves.
I wouldn't worry about 'DQs;' clarification is an important part of revision, and it'll get you better feedback on the specific elements you're trying to focus on.
I must've missed the part where they say they're cutting the 50-word desc. I really liked that they had it this year.
@Wolin: It needs height indicators since there's a lot of vertical play in the map, according to the side view.
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JPSTOD, this community was offering you constructive feedback both here and in the Critique my Item thread. In both places the mature professional reaction is to thank people and learn so you can do better in the contest next time. Instead you have chosen in both places to react defensive and butthurt at the well intentioned feedback from your peers.
I'd offer you advice on how to turn it around but to be blunt, you've demonstrated that you will not listen.
Your stated intentions are noble ones I can relate to, but the first, best, and easiest place to carry out your desire to give back is to be a better citizen. Asking for feedback and then taking it poorly is not a good citizenship. Disparaging your competition and...
Never mind, there's no point in trying to help you.
Good luck with your future endeavors.
(bolding mine)
Frank, you wrote a great article in another thread about not being "that guy". I think you could step back and choose your words in a more professional manner. Calling someone out in public as 'butthurt' does not do your company any favors in my eyes, and would make me pause as to whether I would freelance for someone like that.Just sayin...
(bolding mine)
Frank, you wrote a great article in another thread about not being "that guy". I think you could step back and choose your words in a more professional manner. Calling someone out in public as 'butthurt' does not do your company any favors in my eyes, and would make me pause as to whether I would freelance for someone like that.
Just sayin...
I get where you're coming from and I can link the parts where I and others tried a more respectful approach previously, there's a greater context that informs on my reaction. In the interest of not thread jacking or being that guy I'm going to refrain before this deteriorates into flaming.
You're not entirely wrong to call me out Grumpus on the 'butthurt' comment I do however stand by my opinion regarding stubbornly reacting with counter arguments with an emotional tone to every single piece of constructive criticism offered. It's not only detrimental to learning and moving forward as a designer, it also potentially puts off people who are offering feedback. That damages the competition, feedback is always useful and should always be appreciated.
Thanks for the feedback on my comments!
@ Grumpus,
That is an excellent point, however I will note (as I am the other half of The Flying Pincushions ownership) that Frank does not say he is in any way speaking from a TFPG position or for TFPG in the case of his response to JPSTOD. While perhaps being a bit unduly harsh, Frank is allowed to speak as an individual, and I would hope that we remember that ones personal opinion does not always translate to a company perspective.
It is the official stance of The Flying Pincushion Games to support the paizo community, and work towards ensuring a friendly and constructive space for gamers, budding designers, artists, cartographers, and whom ever else. And we will continue to stand by that position.
@ JPSTOD,
On behalf of The Flying Pincushion Games I apologize if any comments, critiques, criticism, or other thoughts caused you any personal distress or anger. We (the staff of TFPG, Frank Gori, and myself, Jeff Harris) do our best to strengthen the community and share the experiences we have learned as a 3PP in hopes of encouraging folks to join the industry. The best way we know how to do this is through peer review. Alas, as humans we sometimes overstep, even if it is with the best of intentions. So again, I am sorry if any comments, mine included, offended you in any way.
That said, I strongly encourage you to, if game cartography is your passion, to continue to pursue it, enhance your skills, and put your work out there. RPGSS may not be the contest for you, but there are, as others have said, other contests out there that play to your strengths. Also, should you decide you DO wish to try RPGSS again (it really is a great place to learn) I am more than happy to offer feedback and advice if you wish. Best of luck in all of your future endeavours.
Jeffery B. Harris
Flying Pincushion Games Co-creator
The big-picture image really helped, as a note the cave should have been outlined in blue there in addition to the ladder heading down from above.
Re word count: Remember they're cutting that from future submissions. Superstar maps should speak for themselves.
I wouldn't worry about 'DQs;' clarification is an important part of revision, and it'll get you better feedback on the specific elements you're trying to focus on.
I must've missed the part where they say they're cutting the 50-word desc. I really liked that they had it this year.
@Wolin: It needs height indicators since there's a lot of vertical play in the map, according to the side view.
I saw a post where Owen said he wasn't sure if he was going to keep it or not, but I haven't seen that it is a sure thing one way or another if they are going to keep or lose it.
I personally agree it's a good idea--after all, it's not like you're going to email your design to the cartographer with no explanation whatsoever. Superstar is supposed to, to some extent, simulate the challenges of freelancing, and a map with no explanation I don't think happens in real freelance design.
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Thanks DQ, that I remember seeing. I think without the 50 words, I wouldn't have been able to submit Aberrant Excavation. My other idea was a fey court/feasting hall which would've been obvious enough, but less original as well.
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For maps, I highly suggest using colors if you at all can. The less work people have to do to decipher your map, the better.
I hope you forgive me for saying so Wolin, but your tree symbol looks like a scrambled egg (and it's the same as the mast you've drawn).
If you colored the outer circle green and the inner circle brown, it would be an obvious tree.
Yes, the rules say the maps don't have to use color, but it's such a powerful tool to convey your vision, and doesn't require any artistic skill, just more time.
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Star Voter Season 9
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No need to Apologize..
I did not take any Comments personal.
Wolin I finally had time to Look at the Salty Dog
I like the Concept of the Map..
I think it can be adapted to Gameplay..As a Cartographer. I understood the Layout easily. I could Map it out with to much difficulty.
It could function as a Multitude of Scenarios making it Useful..
A Old Shipwreak or "survived a Shipwreak" scenario
A Seaside "Ship Tavern"
A Retired Seafaring Adventurer's home
As a Contest Entry..Meet all the Requirements (except maybe 72 DPI)...
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Thanks DQ, that I remember seeing. I think without the 50 words, I wouldn't have been able to submit Aberrant Excavation. My other idea was a fey court/feasting hall which would've been obvious enough, but less original as well.
To be Honest..I never read the Intended descriptions. I looked at the Map. To see if I could understand the Layouts. Were they easy to follow.
Could the Characters flow from room to room.
Was there Unnecesary wasted space..such as Legends.
Would the Location be useful Over and Over..
Would it be to specific and not be useful to a geneic setting?
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I really liked the 50-word description because it establishes context, which is absolutely vital to designing maps for published adventures. Without context, it might as well just be a flip map.
Oops, leaving out heights there was a massive oversight there. Good catch.
I didn't respond to the treasure thing from before, Trekie, but I'll do that in a bit when I feel like there's been enough/not going to be any more critique.
Drawing really isn't something I'm especially good at, so my trees just always look a little like eggs. The cut down one sort of looks like a lychee as well. Probably keeping them as just trunks is the way to go, thinking about it. I'm just going to laugh at the idea of this cliff covered in large scrambled eggs now though.
Foodscape map sounds like an attractive idea now that's come up. Would fit well with one of my other ideas, too...
I was sort of limited with the colours I had available at the time, but I'd hope that from the context and the big picture you could tell that there's a definite difference between mast and tree. But you're quite right, I should probably have nabbed more colours. Two isn't quite enough.
JPSTOD, if you want to, by all means upgrade my chicken scratchings into something pretty. I'd be surprised if it met the 72 DPI requirement, but I expect that that rule is in place more so the amazing graphics people like you can't put in minute detail to gain an advantage over big thick pen people like me.
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Wolin I will try and do you a Conversion.
Hate to Burst you bubble...but at 72 DPI won't stop the Details I could put in..DPI has to do with Printing..
The More DPI a Photo has the better in Enlarges also.
By the Way I should have mentioned originally the purpose of starting the Topic was I was hoping more people who had worked on Maps might Post and Share and get some feedback on thier own Maps also. I imagine a few people had started working on Maps to be ready if the had advanced.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Rusty Ironpants
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Okay if this is intended to be a thread where people can post the maps they worked on and get feedback, I will get the ball rolling (hopefully) and post mine.
My Map: Tomb of the Sand Pharaoh
Description:
The acient Pharaoh Raman-Sek, called the Sand Pharoah, was reputed to have mystical control over the desert sands. He was entombed in a hidden location, taking the secrets of his power with him into the afterlife. What unknown dangers lie buried in his tomb?
Description:
The acient Pharaoh Raman-Sek, called the Sand Pharoah, was reputed to have mystical control over the desert sands. He was entombed in a hidden location, taking the secrets of his power with him into the afterlife. What unknown dangers lie buried in his tomb?
I like it. Seems a little cramped if there is going to be combat anywhere but the burial chamber, and I'm not sure how you get to the glass sphinx. I feel you, like I was, are constrained by the space, I'd like to see what you would have done with twice as much.
Wow, that's really cool! Easily would have got my vote if it had been in there. Lots of stuff to inspire the imagination and plot things with, and enough left unsaid that there's scope to twist things around with easily. Super easy to draw out onto a flip mat, which is a big plus for me as well.
There's nothing I can see that I could give any feedback on how to improve. Just... wow. That is one awesome map.
River of Sand - this feedback is purely food for thought based on visiting the Valley of Kings recently...
One thing I wondered is, if the pharaoh was so important, then I would have expected to see a false tomb, the real tomb sporting a hidden entrance.
The glass sphinx is labelled "from mirror puzzle" but as far as I can tell, all mirror portals are accounted for on the main map, so there is no obvious connection between them.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Rusty Ironpants
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Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Just a little clarification: (I know that is not allowed for the contest, but what the heck. Also now I know which elements weren't clear so can try to improve similar features in the future.)
River of Sand - was it clear there is a "Sand Skiff" and "Balance Boards" in the Sand Dock room that can be used to navigate down the river?
Burial Chamber - the tomb shown actually is supposed to be a false tomb. In retrospect, the room label should reflect that.
Mirror Portals/Puzzle - So the idea was that the "puzzle" bit required activating the mirror portals in a specific sequence. The wrong sequence would land you in the oubliette while the correct sequence sent you to the Glass Sphinx. Obviously this being only a map and not an encounter I could only hint at that. Seems I was only partially sucessful.
Oblivion Crusher - Hopefully it was obvious that this is supposed to be a giant whirlpool of sand. Surviving getting sucked down into it is iffy – unless you visit the Glass Sphinx and obtain the key/maguffin. Then you arrive at the real tomb with all the Pharaoh's secrets, that would be off the shown map.
I like this concept enough that I have an expanded version that covers about 3 pages of graph paper and I will be writing a full adventure to go with it.
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River of Sand - was it clear there is a "Sand Skiff" and "Balance Boards" in the Sand Dock room that can be used to navigate down the river?
Oblivion Crusher - Hopefully it was obvious that this is supposed to be a giant whirlpool of sand.
For me Yes to both
This is the map I was working on in the run up for use if I had made it through. It isn't great(not my best to be certain, but I usually work with different scales), especially when compared to the people I consider to be good map designers, but hey I still like it. here
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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This is the map I was working on in the run up for use if I had made it through. It isn't great(not my best to be certain, but I usually work with different scales), especially when compared to the people I consider to be good map designers, but hey I still like it. here
I really, really like the visual style of the map. *instant fan*
A few complaints, though:
* The background is too distracting. I find myself unable to view the map because the walls are so hypnotizing... hypno... tizing...
* There isn't a lot of room for the PCs. One of the PCs will be doing all the fighting while the buddies are cheering, buffing him, or trying to hit the foes with ranged attacks from behind cover.
* It's a pretty standard dungeon crawl map, nothing terribly new or exciting about it. For RPGSS, I'd recommend something more imaginative for the location.
It's interesting, if a little busy. Looks like an abandoned crypt that's been taken over by smugglers; I'd definitely use it. That said there could be a stronger tactical emphasis, a legend, some highth notes for the different terrain features, a name, and a 50 word description.
You realise that the reason it doesn't have a key, is that it is unfinished.
This is pretty much the state it was in when the top 32 came out. That said, I suspect that if I were to drop this into one of the G+ mapping communities, all but one feature would be instantly understood byost viewers. Dungeon Maps have a language.
As for text.
No a good map speaks for itself.
To illustrate:
-you understood what the map was as a whole.
-you understood the difference in theme between the two major regions.
-you understand the map has dimensionality
As for a stronger tactical emphasis,the map has:
-Numerous chock points
-Water obsticles
-water based hiding places
-uneven footing(fifghts on the rough hewn stairs)
-ambush points.
-points where the pc or their foes can lap around and attack their oposition in the rear.
- freight that can pushed over onto the enemy
Do you really think it needs more, cause honestly there are a fair number opportunities just in that list.
A, not posted for review. Shared in an idle moment for people to enjoy. If I wanted review of it this is not where I'd come for it. I'd ask Dyson Logos, simon forester or one of the othe members of the cartography brain trust ;). As for looking lazy...dude, if I have no need of a thing, I am not going to waste effort on it. The scale and style is outside my normal playground, so the last few bits of polish were not going to be useful practice. If you consider that lazy, fin, for I am comfortable considering it economical use of effort.The entry may include up to 50 words of explanation not presented on the map itself.
B. The rules for round 2 say "The entry [b]may[/] include up to 50 words of explanation not presented on the map itself".
Text was not a requirement. My understanding is that will not be allowed at all, as of next year.
B2.I was not sharing my entry, I was sharing the work I did on the map I would have entered.
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It's interesting, if a little busy. Looks like an abandoned crypt that's been taken over by smugglers; I'd definitely use it. That said there could be a stronger tactical emphasis, a legend, some highth notes for the different terrain features, a name, and a 50 word description.You realise that the reason it doesn't have a key, is that it is unfinished.
If you want good feedback, show a finished map. It's hard for people to provide quality critique for something in a non-submit-able state.