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I have an idea for a villain, and I was just wondering if his grand plan is at all possible under Pathfinder rules. His ambition is simple, to build a new universe so that he can rule over it as the god he imagines he is meant to be. He starts by building his own demiplane and expanding it to the point where the old universe starts falling apart.
That's where the heroes come in as they try to stop the godling and his crazy cult following.
So yeah, that's the crazy synopsis. I guess the problem would be to make it believable. Or in other words, I want to use every possible rule before using GM fiat.
One of the main problems would be that the gods themselves would stop him way before he can finish his plans. That is, if they are at all interested in the entire universe. (I came to the conclusion that the reason gods need worshippers is that they need outsiders to fight in their armies. According to the great wheel cosmology at least. There might be multiple universes or material planes out there though. Who knows?)
The other problem would be that the aspiring god would need a lot of diamant dust to create his demiplane. I'm not sure how he could aquire such quantities, except maybe for mines on the elemental plane of earth.
So now I need to envision what both the old and the new universe would look like. I'm imagining the old universe as pretty standard, while the new one should make maximum use of Greater Create Demiplane. I also need to figure out what the effects are of building a new universe inside another universe. Demiplanes are build on either the ethereal plane or the astral plane, so I suppose spells like Blink or Ethereal Jaunt could start to fail as the ethereal plane starts to collapse. Hinting to the players that the stars are slowly drifting from there usual place in the sky because something is warping space would definitely be cool.
Can anyone help me with suggestions where to go from here? I need some suggestions to jumpstart my brain.
There aren't any rules where the new demiplane would cause any damage to the material plane. They are literally different universes.
I would suggest you alter the story line a bit, in that the adventurers come because there are stories of people randomly being drawn into portals and sucked into another world. Basically the wizard is opening portals all over the material plane to get inhabitants for his universe. A crazy wizard is going to want people to rule over. He didn't go to the trouble of making a whole universe just to have it be empty.
He should probably be a 20th level wizard with the immortality discovery. He should also probably not view the PCs as a real threat until they reach higher levels. Hell, he may even want them to populate his universe, they might just have qualities he likes.
The gods might not necessarily be interested in this other universe, because aside from kidnapping people to give them a new life he isn't doing much. He's playing at god, but the gulf between 20th level wizard and deity is still pretty huge.
As for worshippers and what not, when a mortal dies regardless of what plane they are on they would end up being judged by Pharasma. Assuming the soul is not somehow trapped. Unless the wizard set up the demiplane to trap the souls of people he brought to live there, when they die they will still reach the correct place.
What I'm imagining is honestly a neutral crazy wizard that found immortality, went mad, and thought he'd like to try his hand at creating a universe and playing god. However he doesn't realize how annoying other people find his acts and don't think it's so fun, interesting, or clever as he does.
There's always the blood money trick; *raise your strength to an arbitrary high score, cast create demiplane (any version), restore any ability damage, raise your strength to an arbitrary high score, cast permanency, restore any ability damage, return to *. It is awesome for a god to say:"Your world is the result of my blood!".
Somewhere in the books it is written that Wish is enough to create new life. Not remember on which book, but I'm sure that it's not on the PRD. Use the same trick as seen above and you will not need any diamond dust.
For spells that relies on teleportation effects and the like (the example you gave are fine), just have your wizard develop spells replacements, like Blink that makes you, well, blink from the astral plane to the old material plane and backwards. Teleportations effect can be replicated by creating a timeless plane and casting plane shift twice (one to get into the linking plane, rest peacefully because time doesn't pass, recharge spells, get back into your plane). Close enough.
I have an idea for a villain, and I was just wondering if his grand plan is at all possible under Pathfinder rules. His ambition is simple, to build a new universe so that he can rule over it as the god he imagines he is meant to be. He starts by building his own demiplane and expanding it to the point where the old universe starts falling apart.
You need a reason why the old one would start to fall apart. Because your demiplane is bigger? Each casting of Create Greater Demiplane (level 20 caster) can create 20x10x10' cubes, so if you just make it 10' high and flat you have 20,000 sq ft of floor space.
The surface area of the Earth is 196.9 million miles, and there are 27,878,400 sq ft in a square mile. That's 5,489,256,960,000,000 sq ft on the earth, equivalent to 274,462,848,000 castings of Create Greater Demiplane to replicate the (only 10' high) surface of the Earth.
If you cast it 4 times per day, sleeping the other 8 hours of a day, you would finish in 187,988,252 years. If you'd started in the early Jurassic Period, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, you'd be finishing around now.
Then you can start on recreating all the surfaces of all the other planets, all the space in between them, and all the interior space. After that, you can start creating something the size of the other (infinite) planes.
So the size of your demiplane isn't the reason the multiverse is collapsing. Find something else.
Perhaps he could find a way to sever the material plane from the current planes. If the outer planes are connected to the astral plane, then one fell swoop locks the gods away from directly interfering in your plan.
To Slithery D
The observable universe is 1.41258667 × 10^82 ft^3 (of course this number is increasing but that doesn't matter). You need 7.0629333 * 10^77 castings to create something as big. And the time needed to create it is 1.3437849*10^71 years, supposing that you are able to cast spells constantly, ignoring resting. This looks prohibitive. But hey! We have magic! Just use simulacrum on something, give it a staff that can cast create demiplane (greater), wish and miracle, give him something to recharge the staff, and tell him to cast spells until you are pleased, leave him in a timeless plane, return immediately and puff! You just created a new universe! A wizard certainly can do that (although that staff might be exceedingly costly).
If the story hook is damage to the Material Plane, think about how what he's doing might influence or support some of the Lovecraftian gods. Maybe he's using a version of the Greater Create Demiplane (or wish, or other related spell) he found which substitutes opening rifts (to gain the power necessary to drive the spell) for costly material components.
These rifts are ones through which those unspeakable gods and their heralds and creatures can start affecting the Material plane. So now you can have randomly opening rifts, some of which are leaking horrors beyond time and space and a few others which lead to a new world/plane (his own). The characters need to:
- Research why the rifts are opening (Someone is using forbidden magics)
- Investigate the places where those texts may have come from to find ways to start blocking/sealing gates
- Deal with the short term hazard of low level stuff coming through the gates
- Deal with the longer term issue that if the person creating the rifts isn't identified and stopped, this will overwhelm the world
- Find ways onto his plane, and finally
- Confront and defeat someone of God-Wizard power level
And recognize that the Great Old Ones will be actively trying to use these new found entries into the Material Plane to expand their influence and open additional avenues for them to return.
This isn't really a suggestion on a rules driven approach, but rather a plot driven approach. The suggestions by Bob Bob Bob and El Mustacho cover the rules portion - which is that a high enough level wizard can bend reality like taffy.
You probably want to create some sort of engine that will accelerate the castings of create demiplane. I'm not sure if there is some way you can do this with simulacrum, planar binding, and crafting, but my guess is there is a way to do so.
As for threatening the universe/material plane the following might work. In the Pathfinder cosmology, the Astral Plane surrounds the Material Plane and demi-planes can also exist within the Astral Plane. Since the Astral Plane is not infinite in size, you could run into a situation where the demiplane is crowding out the Material Plane. In order to have this happen on some realistic timeframe, you would need to have some engine/method of accelerating the growth of the demiplane. A single individual won't have a chance of doing so unaided before the heat-death of the material plane.
This is incorrect.
Astral Plane
The Astral Plane is the space between the Inner and Outer Planes, and coterminous with all of the planes. When a character moves through a portal or projects her spirit to a different plane of existence, she travels through the Astral Plane. Even spells that allow instantaneous movement across a plane briefly touch the Astral Plane. The Astral Plane is a great, endless expanse of clear silvery sky, both above and below. Occasional bits of solid matter can be found here, but most of the Astral Plane is an endless, open domain.
The Astral Plane has the following traits:
Subjective Directional Gravity
Timeless: Age, hunger, thirst, afflictions (such as diseases, curses, and poisons), and natural healing don't function in the Astral Plane, though they resume functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.
Mildly Neutral-Aligned
Enhanced Magic: All spells and spell-like abilities used within the Astral Plane may be employed as if they were improved by the Quicken Spell or Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats. Already quickened spells and spell-like abilities are unaffected, as are spells from magic items. Spells so quickened are still prepared and cast at their unmodified level. As with the Quicken Spell feat, only one quickened spell or spell-like ability can be cast per round.
Shape and Size
Planes come in a variety of sizes and shapes. Most planes are infinite, or at least so large that they may as well be infinite.
Infinite: Planes with this trait go on forever, though they may have finite components within them. Alternatively, they may consist of ongoing expanses in two directions, like a map that stretches out infinitely. Unless otherwise noted in its description, assume that a plane is effectively infinite.
Finite Shape: A plane with this trait has defined edges or borders. These borders may adjoin other planes or be hard, finite borders such as the edge of the world or a great wall. Demiplanes are often finite.
Self-Contained Shape: On planes with this trait, the borders wrap in on themselves, depositing the traveler on the other side of the map. Some spherical planes are examples of self-contained, finite planes, but they can also be cubes, tori, or flat expanses with magical edges that teleport the traveler to the opposite edge when she crosses them. Some demiplanes are self-contained.
The Astral Plane is not noted in it's description to not be infinite, and unless you know of a source the specifically says it is (which I do not think there is) the Astral plane is infinite.
I think you might need to use a Season 6 Buffy solution to Confront and defeat the God-Wizard. Find his Xander, and talk him down.
Well, the 'he can't be mucking up the PM plane' only applies to nice safe spells like Create Demiplane or Clashing Rocks or Meteor Swarm. I can imagine a madman finding (or being given by nefarious forces) something that's not quite working right ...
That said, you'd need to do something regarding the actual supplier of this ability. (I'm now imagining someone taking down a concrete manufacturer to stop someone from building a demiplane.) You'd need to figure out its concept, and how it could go down in flames. (Or acid.)
I do like the idea of someone 'leeching' from the original plane, whether materiel or magic or something. And here's another idea.
The heroes are doing their hero thing, righting wrongs, saving dragons from princesses, et cetera. Then they find a threat to their world, and start investigating. And then find out there's a whole other world out there ... Golarion.
And Golarion's getting kind'a mad at the PCs' home plane for something it's doing that's messing it up, and getting ready to do something about it.
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Instead of using create greater demi plane have him use a variant he developed. His spell siphons off power from the material world to create the plane. Each casting of the spell is permanent, but destroys an equal sized portion of the material plane. Each casting of the spell has a chance to start a cascade where large portions of the world are destroyed and transferred to his new plane. If this happens enough times it could set of a major chain reaction destroying the universe. Maybe the reason the spell works is because he has an artifact that allows him to draw power from the material world.
I love this idea. Had I not just found what I found I would suggest wrapping a demiplane without magic around the astral plane, in effect creating a magic barrier, I tend to run off the concept that the gods dole out a portion of the magic they receive from worshippers and various rites. Cut the gods off from that supply and they're nothing. I think the correct method is using an engine to construct your demiplane around your planet. Enfold it, encapsulate it make it little more than a snowglobe, then use the portal set up to rip as many damn holes as you can on that planet, little bit of GM fiat and bam, those portals tear combining the world with the demiplane.
Here's a twist. Someone already did this. The current "Universe" where the PC's were born is actually a very old demiplane. The crazy wizard. Wants to unravel the demiplane and send everybody back to the "real" world (Golarian).
So crazy wizard is disjointing one section of the demiplane at a time (Square footage = whatever a 20th level casters would be). There's a thread around here somewhere about what it would take to recreate earth. I say take that and reverse engineer.
Keep in mind the PC's don't necessarily know the truth initially. What will they do when they figure it out?
Would the PC's want to preserve their demiplane home or do they think that sending everyone to the real world to "stop living a lie" or what not?
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Could he be stealing matter from the Prime Material Plane to build his own universe? Maybe this leaves behind seas of primordial chaos or void? Maybe it's exponential growth? So it initially steals away parts of people, then whole people, then whole communities, and then whole counties, countries, and continents?
1 inch, 2 inches, 4 inches, 8 inches, 16 inches, 32 inches, 64 inches, 128 inches/10 feet, 20 feet, 40 feet, 80 feet, 160 feet, 320 feet, 640 feet, 1280 feet, 2560 feet, 5120 feet/1 mile, 2 miles, 4 miles, 8 mile, 16 miles, 32 miles, 64 miles, 128 miles, 256 miles, 500 miles, 1000 miles, 2000 miles, 4000 miles, 8000 miles, 16,000 miles/1 planet, 2 planets, 4 planets, 8 planets, 16 planets/1 sun/star, 2 stars, 4 stars, 8 stars, 16 stars, 32 stars, 64 stars, 128 stars, 256 stars, 500 stars, 1000 stars, 2000 stars, 4000 stars, 8000 stars, 16,000 stars, 32,000, 64,000, 128,000, 250,000, 500,000, 1,000,000 stars, 2M, 4M, 8M, 16M, 32M, 64M, 128M, 256M, 512M, 1G, 2G, 4G, 8G, 16G, 32G, 64G, 128G, 256G, 512G, 1 Galaxy.
So 17 days to save the town, 25 days to save the kingdom, 32 days to save the world, 76 days to save the galaxy. And in PF terms, the galaxy is probably equivalent to the universe.
Day 1, an eye goes missing. Day 2, a finger. Day 3, a heart, Day 4, a hand. Day 5, a head. Day 6, a baby. Day 7, a child. Day 8, a horse. Day 9, a family. Day 10, a home. Day 11, a bridge. Day 12, a garden. Day 13, a castle. Day 14, a field. Day 15, a town. Day 16, a city.
Multiple castings would reduce this time significantly.
My idea (similar to ones I've already seen here) would be that this wizard knows about create greater demiplane and knows it would take quite a while to build even a planet-sized plane. He decides to take a shortcut. He builds an eldritch machine that converts the matter and energy of the prime material plane into that of his own plane at an exponential rate.
Given how quickly this would destroy any given world, perhaps he should start with a world far from the PC's homeworld, and they get tasked with investigating when the people of the PC's homeworld (or their gods) notice how screwed up the fabric of space/time is getting.
Diamond dust: Most diamonds come from volcanic vents. This guys diamond mines are manned by skeletons and zombies. In his effort to get every grain of diamond fast is going to trigger volcanoes. So you have body snatching, earthquakes, and runoffs alarming the druids.
Blood: His own blood isn't enough. He's going to start having his minions kidnap unimportant people at first to sacrifice. Blood rituals are more effective when people are sacrificed.
Become a god first: Maybe this guy is a secret patron of the characters. Building them up to send them into The Cleaves to get the rest of the font. The font can be assembled outside of The Cleaves. It will work once and then the parts will disappear back into the Cleaves as it's reshuffled.
String Theory: In the 5th dimension, planes are actual planes, and timelines look like strings. If strings touch, the universes they contain can be destroyed. This guy doesn't know what he's doing, so his new expanding demiplane might destroy lots of worlds. He's warded himself against hyper-spatial beings, so they turn to the adventurers.