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Actually, speaking of Pezzack, how big is the blockading squadron? Towns of the Inner Sea describes both it and any fleet with a hope to oppose it as an "armada." Judy Bauer et al., Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Towns of the Inner Sea 35, 37 (2013). From Hell's Heart uses the same word to describe Druvalia Thrune's fleet of 47 ships. Jason Nelson, Skull and Shackles: From Hell's Heart 14 (2012).
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I had the "Five steps of revolution"-bit that the book gives to Laria instead be included in the writings found in the Fair Fortune Livery, with some additions and changes.
I imagined that it was written by the cleric Amyreid (I made her a member of the now extinct Juliac family), and that she and the last of the original Silver Ravens were gathering in her family's livery - leaving the "time capsule" the PCs later find - just before going to their last, doomed fight against Thrune. Maybe it can be of use to some other GM. (Sorry for any grammatical errors, English is not my first language.)
Step 1—Rally and Recruit:
Before anything else it is imperative that you know what your ulterior aim is, and what kind of society you want to replace the fallen dictatorship with. If not, the ones that will heed your call are rabble-rousers and violent malcontents seeking revenge. While these wreckers of the current order will have their use, you also need to gather builders of a better tomorrow - you need hearts and minds, not just beaks and talons - or all your efforts will in the end prove to be for naught.
After your principles and plans are clear, written down, and agreed upon, you will need to start building a solid base of support. The first two groups whose trust you need to gain are the ones that are the most needy - the poor and oppressed, and other dissidents (whose outlook rhyme with your own).
Taking actions to help the downtrodden poor in the name of the rebellion and to seek out outspoken non-conformists are but two possibilities. The recruitment of allies and gain of popular endorsement are imperative to an uprising, for without help and support from the masses any changes in power you may affect will be weak, and thus easily toppled.
Step 2—Secure a Stronghold:
Once the organization has made its initial recruitments and gotten its cause known on the streets, it will be time to secure a large, strong and defensible headquarters. A rebellion needs a strong and secure base to meet, train and organize activities in.
At the same time, securing the support of other factions within the local environment, apart from the common people, such as important power players - or even hidden allies among the government itself - would be advisable. At this time you also need to gather information about the different factions you will need to deal with. Who will stand readily under your banner, who might, and who will never do so.
Step 3—Gather Regional Support:
Once the rebellion has been established and it has settled into its secure base, the leaders should look beyond the city walls to recruit regional support from other parts of the area. They should take whatever defensive preparations they can to ensure that when the rebellion does move to take back the city, the dictatorship will not be able to easily interfere or gather outside assistance. In addition, the leadership should finally look to the city’s nobility for support— now that they’ve established themselves as a significant political force, having the aid of the aristocracy will be very helpful.
Step 4—Take Back the City:
Once the rebellion has grown strong enough and the leaders have amassed enough power and regional influence, the time will be right to move against the oppressors. High-profile missions, be they assassinations of key government members, operations to rescue important political prisoners, or open opposition against church or state will essentially force the dictatorship to deal with the rebellion, and once the rebels take this step, there is no turning back. Be careful here, since you may now lose the support of the people if you get carried away and bloody revenge, instead of building a better tomorrow, comes to the fore.
The rebellion also needs to be sure of their resources and abilities before attempting to take back control. This step may be forced too early by the dictatorship if the freedom fighters are not careful - it is imperative that this does not happen. Keep the oppressors on the defensive, do not let go of the initiative, and force the enemy to scuttle around trying to mend leaks in their sinking ship, while you plan the next breach.
Step 5—Plan for the Future:
The movement needs to have a plan for what comes after a successful uprising. This must be determined before a single step is taken, color all the actions of the rebellion, be adjusted along the way if necessary, and finally, after the tyrant is brought low, realized. Promises need to be kept, treachery needs to be punished. It is also very possible that the leaders during a rebellion are not the ones most qualified to lead the people after the deed is done - plan for this. There is no use replacing one dictator with another.
If we in the Silver Ravens could had stuck to all these tenets, Kintargo would be a free city. Alas, although we did much, in the end I fear we failed. We go now to the last and decisive battle against the House of Thrune. May the thorns of Milani scourge their souls eternal.
You who find these notes, take heed, do better than we did, and may Milani bless your hearts and minds in so doing. Freedom for all! Death to the oppressors! May the Song of Silver yet again sound in our beloved Kintargo, and this time in victorious joy.
Amyreid Juliac, priestess of Milani, Silver Raven.
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(Sorry for any grammatical errors, English is not my first language.)
Before anything else it is imperative that you know what kind of society will rise from the ashes of the old. Listen to the masses, take up their demands, and sharpen the conflict between them and the regime. Agree upon and write a clear, principled, and practical program based on these demands.
You will need to start building a solid base of support. Look to those with potential collective power and no stake in the old ways: the poor and oppressed, and other freethinkers whose outlooks rhyme with your own.
Be wary of violent malcontents seeking revenge. While these wreckers can help to smash the old order, visionaries will build the new world. You need hearts and minds, not just beaks and talons, or all your efforts will prove to be for naught in the end.
Step 2: Secure a Stronghold
Seek a strong and safe place to meet, train and organize once your organization has recruited its core members and has gained the attention of the masses.
A movement that captures the popular imagination will not escape the notice of power. Discontented individuals and factions close to power may defect, whether out of real enthusiasm for the new society or out of self-preservation. To turn them away out of hand would be to lose valuable governing experience and insights into your enemy's strategy. Instead, try to integrate them into the movement, keeping clear at all times that they are joining you and should cleave to the program.
Be aware of wavering groups even if they do not join you this early, and of groups who are dead-set against you. Come the rising, they will all have to choose sides. Know who will stand readily under your banner, who might, and who never will.
Step 3: Gather Regional Support
A rebellion lives by spreading its roots, and dies when fenced in. A city requires the support of its hinterland to feed itself. Reactionary fleets and armies must approach revolutionary strongholds before they can seize them. For all these reasons, an established rebellion must look beyond its city's walls - both to other towns and to the countryside - for additional support. Erect local branches of your organization if you can, but you may have to ally with existing groups.
Organizing in the countryside will also grant you leverage over the landed gentry. If you can convince them to defect to your cause, so much the better. Again, be sure to impress upon them that they are joining you, not the other way around. Magnates of the old society should not lead a movement for the new.
Step 4: Take Back the City
A rising is always premature. Be open to any opportunity that might tip the balance of power, whether a sudden upswelling of popular anger, a misstep or concession by the regime, or the spectacular success of a high-profile assassination, rescue, or demonstration. But also be wary. The regime may try to provoke a rising on its terms. Take stock of your own resources and abilities. If your rebellion has gained mass support across the country, secured a stronghold, and attracted defectors, it may be strong enough to move against the regime.
Once a rising begins, there is no turning back. Know the centers of power in every ward and district of the city, and move to secure them. Power may manifest in barracks, jails, courthouses, churches, printers, important workshops, markets, thoroughfares, and more. Turn these powers to your own ends, by force if necessary, but do not get carried away in bloody revenge or fiery destruction. You may lose support, and you will lose resources with which to build anew.
You will be vulnerable to counterattack. To avoid this, keep the regime on the defensive. Force your enemy to scuttle around trying to mend leaks in their sinking ship.
Step 5: Build the Future
You will have determined your program before taking any other step. It may have been revised since then in response to changing conditions, but it will have colored all your actions. Now that your enemy is brought low, you will realize it. Keep your promises, and punish treachery.
It may be that a good revolutionary does not make a good statesman, and that good statesmen are not good stewards of the revolution. There is danger both in hanging on to power for power's sake and in surrendering it even to those you trust. Encourage the widest possible participation in government - the masses' enthusiasm for your program will be its best insurance.
If we Silver Ravens had understood all these tenets when we begun, Kintargo would be a free city. Alas, though we did much, I fear we learned them too late. We go now to the final decisive battle against the House of Thrune. May the thorns of Milani scourge their souls eternal!
You who find these notes, take heed, do better than we did, and may Milani bless your hearts and minds in so doing. Freedom for all! Death to the oppressors! May the Song of Silver yet sound again in our beloved Kintargo, and this time in victorious joy!
Amyreid Juliac, priestess of Milani, Silver Raven.
Have some complimentary editing
Thanks a lot Zimmerwald, that really improved it a lot, both content and language-wise. Too bad I already presented it to my players, should had posted it here first :P
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Have some complimentary editingThanks a lot Zimmerwald, that really improved it a lot, both content and language-wise. Too bad I already presented it to my players, should had posted it here first :P
It was a pleasure, and I'm sure someone will get use out of it. GMs might stumble across it easier if it's posted in the In Hell's Bright Shadow thread.
Oups, thought I did! Guess I got my 'Hell's Bones' and 'Hell's Shadows' mixed up. But saw your link there, so all good.
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Just curious if anyone has modified the Negotiations with Nezera encounter? I'd like it to be a bit more dynamic than just Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimdate for each issue. I'm contemplating somehow incorporating the Verbal Duel rules from Ultimate Intrigue - I think using these in business negotiations would be very interesting. I'm also thinking of a mechanic to track progress differently - thoughts are on a Negotiation Point total that starts at a certain value for both sides and wins during the Verbal Duel reduce that point total downwards (think a dart game of 301 where competitors try to reduce their point total to zero the fastest). If Nereza's side reaches 0 first they get the concession listed in the summary for that issue. If the PCs reach 0 first, then the remaining point total for Nereza would determine their level of success. This would replace the 1NP/2NP/3NP concessions.
Any thoughts/suggestions on ways to flesh this out in more detail would be greatly appreciated.
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Just curious if anyone has modified the Negotiations with Nezera encounter?
I modified it in two ways: setting a "tone" and being "pushy."
By "tone," I mean that Nereza decided upon an approach to each of the negotiation stages, and the PCs had to do the same. This meant that they had to choose the order they would use their social skills to set the tone of the negotiation at each step.
* Bluff was the deceptive approach that sought to work in hidden clauses or fuzzy language.
* Diplomacy was the cooperative approach used to gain a favorable concessions.
* Intimidate was the aggressive approach that sought to strong-arm the opponent.
Mechanically, this meant that bluff countered diplomacy, intimidate countered bluff and diplomacy countered intimidate.
Countering or being countered affected the DC of the check, decreasing or increasing the DC by +4/-4 accordingly. Saybel and Emerlind, as assistants to Nereza, could alter a DC by +2 (each only once during a negotiation). The one exception was that Athtinia added a +2 to the DC any time PCs used bluff, and it could stack with another assistant.
PCs could do the same by having one PC contribute an aid another during each stage, but doing so meant that the assistant couldn't be (or have already been) a primary negotiator for another. Once my PCs understood this, they discussed their negotiation team and tactics, figuring out who would check and who would aid based on their approach to each topic.
Each negotiation still had up to three phases depending on how much players wanted to push for concessions. However, I also kept track of the overall "push" so that if PCs pushed too hard, they would be seen as contentious and DCs for later negotiations would increase as Nereza hardened the Queen's positions. Giving up concessions during another round could remove these increases, however.
By introducing this, players felt they had to decide which negotiations were the most important to Kintargo and Ravounel, and push hard on those while seeking milder concessions on others. These "push" increases weren't a lot on their own, resulting in either +1 or +2 maximum per overall negotiation, but they would add up if PCs were militant in pushing for every concession.
As you might expect, this also required adjusting how Barzillai's strength was affected in Kintargo's districts, as players weren't expected to push for every concession on every negotiation. I determined that the Castle and Temple regions started as strong, Old Kintargo as weak, and the remainder as moderate. This meant that the PCs needed to seek the most concessions from the military alliance and nonaggression pacts, but only a single concession for Menador keep. They more or less measured up the negotiations along those lines after the dust settled.
It all worked quite well with one caveat -- as I described the effects, the various concessions and the explanations Nereza gave at each step, it caused my players to want to negotiate the finer points rather than continue to use the abstractions provided by the system for the next step!
For example, after the first round of the initial trade negotiation, they pressed me on how many tons of silver and salt were being exported overall and what the demand might be in Cheliax, for example, and I had to remind them that we weren't going to negotiate in reality, that they had to consider what they'd learned in order to alter their tone and desired push for further stages, if any. This happened several times throughout.
I should add that my players had PHENOMENAL social skills, and therefore minuscule odds of failure with the original system. Frankly, they didn't have a struggle even after my alterations, but it did turn into an event that had all of them involved and discussing their options throughout. So, I marked it as a big win.
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I rebuilt Bejakra for parties with absurd perception modifiers. Even with an expected DC 60 perception check to see through the disguise (Studied bonus + Ring + talent + disguise kit + take 10, -2 for different gender), the party inquisitor at my table still sees through it about 50% of the time or, if she uses True Seeing, 100% of the time. This also addresses the "I have 4 TWF feats and only 1 weapon" and "I have 2 feats based on fear and no ranks in Intimidate" problems. I also felt like it sort of cheated the experience a bit to have 2 assassins in such close story proximity when other options existed. Note that this incarnation of Bejakra is SIGNIFICANTLY more threatening than the original version. As such, it may not be appropriate for some groups. From a modifiers perspective, I do have Studied Target turned on by default, so attack and skill adjustments are already applied on this version of the sheet. HeroLab portfolio here.
I introduced this section to the players at the tail end of book 5, so they already interacted with the messenger, accepted, then thought that they should have killed him for the boots after he had already left. They erupted in laughter when I told them about the curse on the boots.
We went way faster than I expected today. In a 5 hour session where we were incredibly time-sensitive (hard stop at the 5 hour mark for one of the players), everybody was so efficient that nothing took terribly long.
Hounds: These guys are terrifying. Single attacks from them were nearly taking half of the archer inquisitor's health, the auras stacked nicely, and the cleric's channel not healing the nonlethal was a real concern. While this is largely just a damage sponge encounter, the party was very much concerned about the general lethality. It set a good tone.
Heads: Wonderfully atmospheric, but not much of a challenge for a party that includes a healing-centric cleric. The party all saved vs. the weird and the kineticist was temporarily confused by the insanity.
Hell-Prison:The occultist failed the will saves and was imprisoned pretty quickly, though the players LOVED this one. It got shut down pretty quickly, as well.
Popobala:Ignoring all the terrible name jokes for the critter, we had a good time with this. The mob was fun to throw at the PCs, who felt rather confused about things until realizing that the blacksmith was dominated. They dispelled the dominate and started dealing with the popobala, who spent a fair amount of time ensuring that the inquisitor's bow was nowhere near her via telekinesis. She then paralyzed herself with chains of light while the occultist melee'd him to death. I have rarely seen so many successful falchion crits in a single combat.
The cleric finally made the Wisdom check after this was complete.
We decided to hand-wave the Records Hall for the sake of campaign pacing. I have a goal of finishing out the AP before PaizoCon and we only have 2 available session days left. On the 7th, we'll begin the dive into the Soulbound Fane and I intend to wrap up the book on the 21st in a longer session. It will be a grand old time and I think the players are stoked for it as much as I am.
Soulbound Fane! They enjoyed it, but they also trounced it. Like, so bad.
Adrakash was a fight I had somewhat agonized over in preparation for today. I knew that he could not, under any circumstance, last more than 2 rounds against the party in an "even" fight. I added the Savage mythic template to him in hopes that it would provide a little more beef and not be overwhelming. My problems were two-fold here:
- The room sort of assumes the party will be using limited sight range due to the poor illumination in the cavern.
- The scenario also assumes that the party will approach a bit before Adrakash "wakes up" and starts initiative.
Imagine my chagrin when the True Seeing made them see the corpse clear as day, the knowledge monkey identified the corpse, then yelled "HEY ADRAKASH!" Turns out that poor buddy only has 60' darkvision and has a hard time with the space with his 80' fly speed due to having to ascend. I had read the space as dark instead of dim, which meant he literally could not see the party until he hit his morale condition. He then died without doing a single offensive thing.
They used Object Reading to find out his backstory (since corpses are objects), then the occultist used Object Possession, Greater to ride around in a dragon body for the rest of the dungeon.
I hand-waved the Shadow Golems. Their light tricks wouldn't work and they had roughly a combined 1 round worth of hit points for the archer inquisitor.
I added the Invincible mythic template to the devil, using it to block some of the archer's shots. Unfortunately, they have epic-equivalent weapons (so the DR doesn't work) and he can only block once a round. Despite having 44 AC and 350-something HP, he couldn't survive to round 2.
Verdict: I'm not sure why I let them have an archer inquisitor. On the plus side, one of the players recalled plot details and they knew that they had to go after Barzillai still.
Finale in 2 weeks. I will be adding several templates to multiple encounters. I offered the mythic tier option and only 2 of 4 PCs took it, in part due to Legendary Gifts from the Automatic Bonus Progression system.
Verdict: I'm not sure why I let them have an archer inquisitor.
Archer inquisitors are brutal, but I suspect it's a combination of things, including the addition of epic level weapons to the PCs; More standard equipment would have made the added mythic template more effective, and likely stretched on the encounter.
Also, true seeing has a range of 120 ft. so the PCs shouldn't have had that great an advantage over the dragon's 60 ft. darkvision?
Verdict: I'm not sure why I let them have an archer inquisitor.Archer inquisitors are brutal, but I suspect it's a combination of things, including the addition of epic level weapons to the PCs; More standard equipment would have made the added mythic template more effective, and likely stretched on the encounter.
Also, true seeing has a range of 120 ft. so the PCs shouldn't have had that great an advantage over the dragon's 60 ft. darkvision?
Bugger all, I forgot that True Seeing has a range because of where they put that range in the spell.
Re: weapons, the inquisitor is regularly getting Legacy Weapon from the occultist and bane from herself. Combined, that's +5 equivalent before any other modifications, such as base weapon enchantments.
Re: weapons, the inquisitor is regularly getting Legacy Weapon from the occultist and bane from herself. Combined, that's +5 equivalent before any other modifications, such as base weapon enchantments.
I know this is going off-topic somewhat, but I don't think that is how the mechanics are intended to be used. Specifically:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
Bolded for emphasis. You're well within your rights as GM to rule that temporary enhancements do stack above +10... or rule that they do not, as per the above. It depends what brings the greater enjoyment to all at the table - including yourself.
Noting that choosing one way or the other will have a profound impact if the PCs decide to try and take on Mephistopheles at any point ;)
I generally follow the rules adjudication method of "If it seems to good to be true... it probably is".
Re: weapons, the inquisitor is regularly getting Legacy Weapon from the occultist and bane from herself. Combined, that's +5 equivalent before any other modifications, such as base weapon enchantments.I know this is going off-topic somewhat, but I don't think that is how the mechanics are intended to be used. Specifically:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.Bolded for emphasis. You're well within your rights as GM to rule that temporary enhancements do stack above +10... or rule that they do not, as per the above. It depends what brings the greater enjoyment to all at the table - including yourself.
Noting that choosing one way or the other will have a profound impact if the PCs decide to try and take on Mephistopheles at any point ;)
I generally follow the rules adjudication method of "If it seems to good to be true... it probably is".
DR/Epic is bypassed by +6 equivalent weapons, when combining both the base enhancement + any special properties with a +1 or higher price. If a character has a +5 enhancement weapon, adds Bane (a +1, which counts the enhancement as 2 higher for the appropriate type), then also adds 3 properties via Legacy Weapon (Cyclonic and Ghost Touch, for example), you've pushed WELL BEYOND the +6 equivalent that is required for DR/Epic.
The standard party tactic at this point is just to buff the inquisitor until the target is vaporized.
DR/Epic is bypassed by +6 equivalent weapons, when combining both the base enhancement + any special properties with a +1 or higher price. If a character has a +5 enhancement weapon, adds Bane (a +1, which counts the enhancement as 2 higher for the appropriate type), then also adds 3 properties via Legacy Weapon (Cyclonic and Ghost Touch, for example), you've pushed WELL BEYOND the +6 equivalent that is required for DR/Epic.
The standard party tactic at this point is just to buff the inquisitor until the target is vaporized.
Huh. Most of seven years on, and I never noticed that Paizo adjusted the rules so that weapon properties count for overcoming DR/Epic.
In 3.5 it required an enhancement bonus of +6, which only epic weapons could possess (hence, DR/epic). That said, as Pathfinder doesn't officially use the epic rules at all (which I can fully appreciate), they needed to make it possible to kill Tarrasques such.
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My players and I sat down for an extended finale session today. They all surprised me by turning down the mythic tier (though the cleric had one from a previous section of the adventure. The party composition:
Kelandra, Inquisitor 17 (archer)
Robin, Kineticist 17 (tele/aero/void)
Zaska, Cleric 16/Hierophant 1 (full support and bag of HP)
Rolicharr, Occultist 14/Empiricist Investigator 3
Ougorthan was a fun conversation initially, though they didn't think to ask any questions despite giving an appropriate gift. This became hilarious later.
Not knowing what to do for now, they headed to Bloodwall Bastion. The gylous didn't present much of a challenge and the party did the heart-touching thing before confiscating all of the comfy pillows into their portable hole - after all, they weren't truly damned, but they were truly damned comfortable.
Then, to the Solitary Thousands. The entire party had invested in Rings of Inner Fortitude Greater, so the drain from Corinstian was not so bad and Rolicharr had gone to efforts to create space for Kelandra to fire away, providing Ghost Touch to burn down the dread wraith while the rest of the party dealt with the horned devils. Robin had a 160ish damage AoO crit + attack that buried the final devil. They toyed at walking through to Barzillai, but I OOC explained that they'd miss the story and, because of that, they decided to move backwards a bit.
The party + Thirothryn entered the floor, with Thirothryn remaining back initially. When they triggered Fangrane's aggro conditions, they leapt into action quickly, with Rolicharr throwing up a Resilient Sphere around Fangrane to allow the party to buff and address the threat, particularly since Robin failed against a Suggestion to sit this one out. Nobody managed to get information in their knowledge checks about the claw reach as he proceeded to get a second round of full attacks from inside the sphere. The golem took a mighty swing at Zaska and Thirothryn engaged it to protect their newfound allies. Rolicharr dropped the Resilient Sphere, noting that it did nothing to prevent the full attacks. Kelandra took her first full attack and missed several arrows to the templated version's AC 52.
Then the Blasphemy happened. Fangrane really swung for the fences on this Blasphemy, knocking Robin, Zaska, and Rolicharr back to Kintargo. Thirothryn and Kelandra suddenly went for a panic regroup, with an Obscuring Mist from the azata and an attempted Greater Invis from Kelandra. The Spectral Shroud, however, give constant see invis to Fangrane, who swiped Kelandra down to an effective 14 WIS. At this point, Thirothryn told Kelandra it was time to flee, Dismissal'd themself, and Kelandra rightly did the same to herself.
As it turns out, Mind Blank and Greater Invis meant Fangrane died before acting. He ate a full round for 315 damage from Kelandra, followed by a blast of lightning from Robin. The templates had placed him solidly at 317 HP and the recent FAQ to bows and DR was all that saved him from going down on the initial volley.
Fun Fact: Apostate Devils do not have a condition for disabling their regeneration. That's probably a misprint, but it's the misprint I had and the one I was going to run. While the party frantically kept stabbing him, the brass golem was successfully disabled via Object Possession Greater. The party found the shawl and they decided it was right and proper to finish off Fangrane by drowning him in the Bathhouse as revenge for kidnapping the nereid.
Barzillai had his brief monologue. He rolled a 5 on initiative. Kelandra lit him up for 287 damage, and Rolicharr charged in for the knockout blow. The hounds of old Kintargo reached the top of the tower right as Rolicharr placed the heart into Barzillai's chest and, with that whimper of a fight, Mephistopheles came to send them home and collect Barzillai's remains. It had been approximately 8.5 hours at that point and I think they were relieved that they were so effective here.
The party was able to feel some sympathy for Barzillai, even if there was a lot of schadenfreude to go with it. While Barzillai is a despicable character in virtually every way, understanding his fears and motivations made him seem more human than his otherwise mustache-twirling evil acts would indicate from prior interactions. The humanization led to a more fulfilling resolution, even if Barzillai was an absolute pushover for the party.
tldr: It was a good time, but Fangrane was the real raid boss. YOLO Blasphemy!
Thanks for the great write-up Serisan! And congrats on a successfully finished AP.
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My group just finished this last night--victoriously!
This has been a great AP. Having Barzillai Thrune show up on day one, encounter one made him a fantastic villain--and having to kill him three times (fake B, real B, bone B) was very well done. The revelations about his life gave my players a lot to think about, even if they didn't use the information in the final battle. And when B. finally was vanquished, and Mephistopheles showed up, you could've heard a pin drop.
It's been a little over a year and what a great time we've had. Thanks to everyone involved in this AP!
Let their preparations play off. They now have the drop on the assassin.
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Let their preparations play off. They now have the drop on the assassin.
Agreed. Have the archons report their discovery up their chain of command, and let the PCs decide what to do from there. And have the Chelaxian party make its own preparations, having been warned - but don't have them coordinate with the PCs. Let there be too many cooks trying to avert the assassination, see if that gives the assassin any opportunities.
Keep in mind that the archon only knows that the gardener is evil. They don't know what the plans are. (Nor that there are an plans at all for that matter.)
Like Zim said, have the archon report the discovery to the PCs and let the players decide what to do with that information.
The players may assume that the gardener is working with Nereza so may not mention it to that group at all.
Full disclosure: I am not GMing this YET, but being the meticulous man that I am I wanted to make sure everything was perfect (or as close as possible) for my group of players who are really excited to play this AP.
This brings me to this point: properly roleplaying and presenting Barzillai. Barzillai’s flaws in this book give a great framework for his personality and what makes him tick.
Cruelty: the man is a master of torture and would kill 300 people in cold blood for his way.
Contempt: that’s Asmodeans in general; that the lesser beings are not worth your time.
Obsession: Barzillai plans things down to meticulous detail and will not stop until he gets his way.
Sadism: I mean, that was obvious from day one.
Impetuousness: an interesting detail that makes Barzillai human; he occasionally acts on impulse but is so headstrong that he won’t take back his word.
Self-loathing: another interesting detail because it almost shows that Barzillai hates himself almost to the point of self destruction; after all, pride is an Asmodean’s favorite word.
Doubt: the core of his actions. That he fears that he will be forgotten, which is the catalyst for the campaign as a whole.
And then you get to the one that made me raise my eyebrow and go “huh?”: Gynophobia. Throughout reading Hell’s Rebels I got a good image of Barzillai in my head as a guy willing to use anything and everything to achieve his goal, but when I saw that he was apparently gynophobic, I was wholeheartedly confused. His personal bodyguard (Nox) is a woman, the person who gave him the Book of the Damned idea (Tiarise) is a woman, even one of his trump cards, a mighty dragon willing to do his bidding, is a woman. A misogynist I could potentially see him as, but a gynophobe? Not really.
This long route finally brings me to my actual question that might require some psychoanalysis: In what way has Barzillai Thrune’s actions indicated that he was gynophobic?
Full disclosure: I am not GMing this YET, but being the meticulous man that I am I wanted to make sure everything was perfect (or as close as possible) for my group of players who are really excited to play this AP. This brings me to this point: properly roleplaying and presenting Barzillai. Barzillai’s flaws in this book give a great framework for his personality and what makes him tick.
And then you get to the one that made me raise my eyebrow and go “huh?”: Gynophobia. Throughout reading Hell’s Rebels I got a good image of Barzillai in my head as a guy willing to use anything and everything to achieve his goal, but when I saw that he was apparently gynophobic, I was wholeheartedly confused.
This long route finally brings me to my actual question that might require some psychoanalysis: In what way has Barzillai Thrune’s actions indicated that he was gynophobic?
By my analysis, Barzillai's got a problem regarding is ability to express any kind of physical desire, from enjoying chocolate to ask anybody to pet him over the head. And for that, since he's never got to "control/govern" over a country (being only a "para"-count), he sees fit to correct everybody by enforcing them his viewpoint and psychosis.
Regarding B's gynophobia, i think one of his proclamation is directly directed towards the banning of fine dresses, and indirectly towards (i believe) female vanity. If you look at Barzillai's entourage of women (which are, basically, all his main minions) none of them shows the typical characteristics of a woman (or, to say better, THE woman that Barzillai's despised). To oversimplify: no one of Barzillai's top 4 human female collaborators presents herself as overtly feminine - which i believe would be the the trigger of his antisocial behavior: none of them wear a dress, or show any kind of vanity or femininity. Each of them is an "efficient collaborator" which Barzillai got in check as an "useful subordinate". Zella would be, in this case, as exception, thought by her looks she seems more "tomboy" and she's more likely damaged as much Barzillai's is. But since she's not "a cheliaxian lady", i don't think she would be regarded as a "woman" by Barzillai. Zella is probably more of a "foreign Gypsy fortune-teller devoted to hell" to Barzillai than an actually person he thinks about.
Which lets me to a thought: did Barzillai not partecipate at the Ruby Masquerade in person because he was pained so much by the thought of being around more than 100 masked women in night dresses around, which he had to talk to? So much that he had to summon a devil and use a 8th level scroll to make him like himself, instead of simply leaving the place before the massacre?
Full disclosure: I am not GMing this YET, but being the meticulous man that I am I wanted to make sure everything was perfect (or as close as possible) for my group of players who are really excited to play this AP. This brings me to this point: properly roleplaying and presenting Barzillai. Barzillai’s flaws in this book give a great framework for his personality and what makes him tick.
And then you get to the one that made me raise my eyebrow and go “huh?”: Gynophobia. Throughout reading Hell’s Rebels I got a good image of Barzillai in my head as a guy willing to use anything and everything to achieve his goal, but when I saw that he was apparently gynophobic, I was wholeheartedly confused.
This long route finally brings me to my actual question that might require some psychoanalysis: In what way has Barzillai Thrune’s actions indicated that he was gynophobic?
By my analysis, Barzillai's got a problem regarding is ability to express any kind of physical desire, from enjoying chocolate to ask anybody to pet him over the head. And for that, since he's never got to "control/govern" over a country (being only a "para"-count), he sees fit to correct everybody by enforcing them his viewpoint and psychosis.
Regarding B's gynophobia, i think one of his proclamation is directly directed towards the banning of fine dresses, and indirectly towards (i believe) female vanity. If you look at Barzillai's entourage of women (which are, basically, all his main minions) none of them shows the typical characteristics of a woman (or, to say better, THE woman that Barzillai's despised). To oversimplify: no one of Barzillai's top 4 human female collaborators presents herself as overtly feminine - which i believe would be the the trigger of his antisocial behavior: none of them wear a dress, or show any kind of vanity or femininity. Each of them is an "efficient collaborator" which Barzillai got in check as an "useful subordinate". Zella would be, in this case, as exception, thought by...
Interesting way of putting it, and I largely have to agree, but two points of clarification: 1) who are you referring to as “THE woman Barzillai despises”? I’m assuming the Queen, but you know what they say about assumptions. 2) What about Tiarise? She’s quite possibly the most feminine of Barzillai’s major allies in addition to being one of the catalysts of the campaign as a whole.
It is my understanding that Barzillai's hatred towards women is probably derived the lack of love and physical abuse he received from his (not named in the AP?) mother, which I can easily image as the stereotypical cheliaxian noblewoman (rich dresses, etiquette and much back-stabbing). Tiarise, by my understanding, is also quite self centered and very much disinterested towards Kintargo and social life (heck, she's not even named in book 3), which is why i believe Barzillai's got not problem working with her. To me Barzillai's frustration is directed towards open expression of femininity (whatever you might interprete as such). As an example, my Barzillai actually started to deeply hate Archcountess Urora Sarini since, during ore of her exhibitions, he actually felt, even for a moment, touched by her bardic's performances.
On that note, I've made at the start of Book 2 the Poisoned Quill of Kintargo write a very malignant but funny piece of satire which pointed out this paraxod of Barzillai's (a non married man in it's forties - i believe - having a mostly female entourage), which really got a reaction from the inquisitor.
Hahaha! I may have to use that for the Poisoned Quill.
That said, I can see where you’re coming from; I personally always saw Tiarise as being a lesbian in the (at least what I believe to be) uber-conservative Cheliax (after all, the Order of the Rack’s main purpose is to maintain the status quo). I always thought that the one “feminine” woman that Barzillai was not uncomfortable around was his borderline-incestuous view of his sister.
Of course, that may well just be me trying to convert real-world ideologies to the Inner Sea, which could very well be a mistake.
Just curious if anyone has modified the Negotiations with Nezera encounter?I modified it in two ways: setting a "tone" and being "pushy."
By "tone," I mean that Nereza decided upon an approach to each of the negotiation stages, and the PCs had to do the same. This meant that they had to choose the order they would use their social skills to set the tone of the negotiation at each step.
* Bluff was the deceptive approach that sought to work in hidden clauses or fuzzy language.
* Diplomacy was the cooperative approach used to gain a favorable concessions.
* Intimidate was the aggressive approach that sought to strong-arm the opponent.Mechanically, this meant that bluff countered diplomacy, intimidate countered bluff and diplomacy countered intimidate.
Countering or being countered affected the DC of the check, decreasing or increasing the DC by +4/-4 accordingly. Saybel and Emerlind, as assistants to Nereza, could alter a DC by +2 (each only once during a negotiation). The one exception was that Athtinia added a +2 to the DC any time PCs used bluff, and it could stack with another assistant.
PCs could do the same by having one PC contribute an aid another during each stage, but doing so meant that the assistant couldn't be (or have already been) a primary negotiator for another. Once my PCs understood this, they discussed their negotiation team and tactics, figuring out who would check and who would aid based on their approach to each topic.
Each negotiation still had up to three phases depending on how much players wanted to push for concessions. However, I also kept track of the overall "push" so that if PCs pushed too hard, they would be seen as contentious and DCs for later negotiations would increase as Nereza hardened the Queen's positions. Giving up concessions during another round could remove these increases, however.
By introducing this, players felt they had to decide which negotiations were the most important to Kintargo and...
I'm only the the third session of my Hell's Rebels campaign, but I want to ask this question now so I don't forget later. As of right now, the players with actual social skills only really put points into Diplomacy. I don't want them to suffer for something they couldn't have ever learned about, so I was wondering, if by the time they get to the negotiations and they're only able to beat the Diplomacy DC, may I rework the rule so that instead of having to beat a Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff DC, they have to beat three Diplomacy DC's that increase by increments of two? Or would that make things too easy for them?
You should not reward narrow focus on one of several social skills: diplomacy, bluff, intimidate, sense motive, and things like disguise and perform oratory. At first level, obviously, you don't expect diversity of skills. But in a skills-heavy campaign, you have to grow to expect the party being able to cover multiple core skills in the high level adventures like this one.
PC's will likely change significantly by the time they get to 15th or 16th level, so don't assume that where the players spend points now is where they will spend them going forward. Even if the player claims to have a "plan."
If you'd like to get the pc's to round out their skills, you need to provide situations that can be addressed by diverse skills. If the players never encounter a situation that appears "solvable" with intimidate, they won't invest any points in it. There's no crime in observing after the fact that intimidate (as an example) might have been an option. There's probably not a crime in pointing it out ahead of or during an encounter either (pending your GM style and preference.)
All that said, the AP is not an immutable document, if you think changes to an encounter will make it more interesting or challenging for your group, you should absolutely do that. You could make an argument (I'm not necessarily) that Bluff and Intimidate are for short term interpersonal interactions and not for international negotiations taking hours and days. And that Diplomacy is the right skill for those and that it encompasses those other features in the longer term context.
Has anyone passed a fair amount of time between signing the deal with Cheliax and part two of this book? I'm considering passing a few years (5-15 years) with my group. Other than a player saying that their character goes somewhere else in the world can anyone think of a problem with doing this?
Once Ravounel becomes a free country per the negotiations, Barzillai's transformation begins due to the clauses placed in the Kintargo Contract/Cheliax Covenant and his genius loci transformation. Would the players (barring the character who might be going somewhere else) allow for Kintargo to be haunted and decimated by Barzillai for 5+ years without doing anything about it? I'm pretty sure the description says that if Barzilla has the timeframe of years as a genius loci he would be able to recruit a large cult and take over most of Ravounel.
It might actually be a cool idea if they forgot all that information and just headed off for a few years only to find out that Kintargo had become a terrible hellscape in their absence. Like alternate 1985 in Back to the Future II.
Yes, it says that but I was planning on having it take longer for him to start to manifest. I was thinking that the power should take a few years for him to infuse the land with his soul because if it quickly happened why wouldn't it quickly spread?
Also, while we're on it, does anyone have an explanation as to why Ravounel not being part of Cheliax makes it so that he can begin his transformation early? Is there anything that would let the players know this? (I don't see it in neither the write-up for the Heart's Harvest contract nor the ritual. It looks to only be written into book 6. Am I missing something?)
Never mind... I realized skipping a lot of time isn't an option as the characters will learn too much at the end of book 5 about what's going on and wouldn't rest until they've found a solution.
Honest question: how do you suppress Fangrane’s (and by extent all apostate devils) regeneration. It doesn’t list a method meaning that, by the RAW, it cannot be turned off—the only other thing that I know of with irrepressible regeneration are the Spawn of Rovagug, and their subtype specifically calls out that their regeneration can’t be turned off, and so did the Tarrasque before it was remade with the subtype, so this leads me to believe that the way of turning off an Apostate Devil’s regeneration was just never printed due to a typo, but I’m not sure.
I would assume (good weapons or good spells) since the other devils I could find (with an admittedly clumsy search across the five Bestiaries) that had regeneration all seemed to have that suppression. Examples: Horned, Ice, Pit Fiend, Immolation.
I suppose it could be intended to be unsuppressable but that doesn't seem appropriate for a CR17 creature where other devils of higher CR have suppression methods and the text for the creature does not clarify that detail.
Knock them unconscious, stick their head in a bucket of water, stab them a few more times, they'll be dead in 3 rounds under drowning rules?
I'm trying to figure something out about the spell Divination. Each week the players are asking if Tiarise is coming back due to her Binding the Soul to the Stone ritual. It's been a constant "no" but now they're getting ready to go and meet with Cheliax and sign the deals which beginnings the hauntings in Kintargo so she's about to come back.
Does the answer change to "yes" before they sign the contract or would it stay as a "no" as that was the answer up until they signed the contract?
The spell says not acting can change the answer so I'm assuming actions by the PCs could also change the answer. So if they were to delay the negotiations by a week she wouldn't manifest. And if they don't try to delay the negotiations but didn't show up at Oakrib Inn it would move the campaign along to the "contract unsigned" portion... So the answer is "no" but their actions change it, right?
I think I agree with that.
Negotiations have been scheduled therefore it will happen.
If negotiations are delayed (by less than a month) that will change the result but the PCs wouldn't know that.
(They're going to be freaked out by the answer being yes but I don't know what they'll do as a result.)
I figure delaying them by less than a month is okay but anything longer than that and Cheliax will acknowledge that they've lost Ravounel and have it be official enough to start the hauntings.
Except for the mint one... I have to change that so that it's something bigger than the reason given. I'm thinking he spilled mint tea on his mother (or perhaps played a prank using mint? Anyone have any ideas?) but as a punishment they forced him to have an excessive amount of mint on everything, especially birthday cakes and the like.
Two words for you, sir: Sensory Hypersensitivity.
I personally have high-functioning autism, and while I can mostly function in everyday life, there are certain things that cause me to act out—sudden schedule changes, a lack of fairness, etc. While I am one of the luckier ones in that I don’t have sensitivities to certain stimuli, I know of people who, for instance, can’t touch velvet or listen to certain sounds because they just can’t take it. It’s like nails on a chalkboard, except applied to a different sensory organ.
Who’s to say Barzillai isn’t like that with the smell/taste of mint?
I could honestly see him in his younger years being mocked for being “afraid of mint” and so forth.
And to tie it back to his sin of obsession: I could see him growing worried, more and more obsessed, about if, when, and where he would encounter this material that he psychologically cannot stand in the slightest!
Creative Director
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Some of Barzillai's actions aren't motivated by anything other than ego and narcissism. "I can outlaw mint, so why not? That'll prove to the rabble I've power!" It's more interesting, to me, for some of these things to have no grounds other than petty cruelty and power abuse.
As the GM and a reader of the AP I really like the reason of "because he has the power to do it and therefore does" but my players have been rather focused on that particular proclamation since the first session so I suspect they'd be disappointed that there wasn't anything more to it.
It's kind of Chekhov's Gun for my players.
That, and the vision the PCs have by entering Fangrane's Reliquary (beating a servant to death for misfiling a book) isn't something they would connect to outlawing mint.
As the GM and a reader of the AP I really like the reason of "because he has the power to do it and therefore does" but my players have been rather focused on that particular proclamation since the first session so I suspect they'd be disappointed that there wasn't anything more to it.
It's kind of Chekhov's Gun for my players.
That, and the vision the PCs have by entering Fangrane's Reliquary (beating a servant to death for misfiling a book) isn't something they would connect to outlawing mint.
Mint is a spice with religious significance.
Milanites rites may require it. or even the ones of Mahathallas.It may be to further hinder the costumers, or as a plan to force them to buy mint from a certain muggler, which is in truth part of Barzillai's entourage?
Or Maybe Barzillai needs all the mint in the city to bathe himself in mint water to compensate for his situation?
Who controls the mint controls the universe!
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I have in my notes that night tea is a form of birth control and that mint is indeed a part of the Milanite faith. Source's lost right now, though.
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I have in my notes that night tea is a form of birth control and that mint is indeed a part of the Milanite faith. Source's lost right now, though.
The item called "night tea" is from Adventurer's Armory, and is indeed a contraceptive.
However, the term used in Hell's Rebels refers to tea taken at night, and the similar names are intended to be purely coincidental. Not that that should stop you from doing whatever you like in your game, of course.