Tiny Damage


For those who do not know, in PFS there is a spending cap that is determined by your character's fame score. Suffice it to say that once I reach 4th level (18 fame) I will no longer have a damage issue with my character. At that level the character can afford to get a +0 Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists. However, for the next 3 sessions I am looking for some kind of temporary fix for his current issue.

This is my character's current build:



Str 6
Dex 17
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 15

Unarmed Fighter 1
Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Monkey Style (bonus), Dodge (1st)
Mouser Swashbuckler 1
Derring-Do, Dodging Penache and Underfoot Assualt Deeds, Penache, Swashbuckler Finesse
Unarmed Fighter 2
Harsh Training, Fox Shape (3rd), Mobility (bonus)

When shifting to Fox Shape it changes his stats to:
Str 4
Dex 21
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 15

That makes both his unarmed strike and bite damage 1d3-3. :(

I would prefer a temporary fix but the closest I can think of is to buy potions of bull's strength which only raise his strength to 8 still giving him a -1 to damage and potion of magic fang which only lasts for a minute and will only affect either his bite or unarmed strike, not both. And, even with both of those potions going at the same time his damage will still only be 1d3.

Originally a made a mistake in math and had figured that I would have 18 fame by 3rd level which is when I can become a fox by anyway, but it is actually 18 by 4th level. I suppose I can still contribute meaningfully in combat even while not doing damage by providing flanking and debuffs via Underfoot Assault. I can also contribute out of combat and the RP will be fun. I am just looking for a temporary way to boost my damage for the next 3 scenarios.

Throw alchemical splash weapons (or caltrop beads), with your dex they'll be accurate enough, and strength does not apply.

Or a crossbow, likewise but cheaper and more boring.

Foxes do not have opposable thumbs and cannot throw things or use a crossbow.

Yes; you may have to stay in humanoid form. Just because you have an option doesn't make it the best one in every situation.

But it is the option that I am choosing to go with being that my entire build is based around being in Fox Shape.

So, I thank you for your suggestion but I would prefer ones that are helpful to my goal.

Dark Archive

STR 6, ouch. I'm running a similar build, but I structured it so that it would still be marginally effective at low levels - between Piranha Strike and Rage (it's based on Unchained Barbarian), as long as it stays in humanoid form, the damage is actually quite decent as a result of having multiple attacks.

One option may be to exploit retraining. Using Piranha Strike would at least bring your damage up a bit for each attack, then train it out later to work with the build. That said, if you're 100% committed to being in Fox Shape 24/7... you may just be screwed for a level or two, since you elected to entirely min/max for later levels rather than planning for early effectiveness.

I had considered Piranha Strike but I find $8 a fairly steep feet tax to buy a PDF book that is out of print. And there isn't much else I would use in that book. I had considered the feat for the build, though.

Retraining is an option but outside of Piranha Strike I can't think of taking anything that would up my damage. I would only be screwed for a single level (3 scenarios) though as 4th level fixes everything. I'll be taking my first level in Master of Many Styles / Kata Master Monk which allows me to sneak into Monkey Shine and allows me to use Swashbuckler's Finesse with Unarmed and Strikes and Monk weapons so hitting will never be an issue again. That is also the level that Fame will allow me to purchase the much coveted +0 Agile Amulet of Might Fists which will fix my damage issues.

You are otherwise correct. I may have to suck it up for these next 3 sessions. Just trying to figure a way to lessen the pain even if only slightly.

Hm... I could retrain out Mobility for Small but Deadly. I don't own the book but could justify buying that more than Sargava as I would probably find things more useful out of that.

...there is no way to currently get a race boon for Kobolds in PFS is there?

You could always use this trick for early in a fight:

Begin the fight in fox form. Move action, run into an enemy's square. Standard action, dismiss fox form and occupy their square via Mouser.

It'll at least let you maybe trip things if they're large or smaller.

You can find Piranha Strike here:


I was close to not answering given the two 'your answer is flawed but thanks' comments, but then I guessed it was meant in a nice way.

Have fun with the fox, I guess it's a fun diversion to normal characters.

SheepishEidolon: As I stated, I have considered Piranha Strike. It is in a book that is out of print. In PFS you have to own the book to use the feat. That book is $8 for the PDF and I would likely use nothing else in it ever. I do not consider that a worthwhile purchase.

As to the "your answer is flawed but thanks" comments, I strongly dislike it when anyone makes a post asking for help and people come by thinking they are being helpful with, "your idea is stupid, you should do this other thing that I suggest instead" comments. I guess you can side either way on that fence. I said it in the nicest way possible, but when I specifically stated that I would be fighting in Fox Shape it isn't helpful to offer suggestions that do not help in that endeavor. Sorry if you were offended by me pointing that out to someone else...

Lune wrote:
In PFS you have to own the book to use the feat.

Oh sorry, didn't know that.

I strongly dislike it when anyone makes a post asking for help and people come by thinking they are being helpful with, "your idea is stupid, you should do this other thing that I suggest instead" comments.

I can understand that. But, hmm, fighting fire with fire ended in wars too often...

To focus again on your initial post:

a) Is playing the tank and absorbing attacks of opportunity an option? With Dex 21 and tiny (?) size your AC is probably high enough.

b) Or you go scouting during battle, revealing additional opponents behind next corner.

c) Or you go scouting before battle, stealth value should be good even without ranks.

Potions of enlarge person? It'd raise your damage die for both unarmed and bite then add in your potion of bulls strength. It'd negate your underfoot assault bonuses when you are not in fox shape.

That's pretty much your option as far as I can see if you want the chance to do more damage with your build.

Otherwise go for more attacks if you can't do a bunch of damage with one hit then do a little damage with a bunch of hits. Potions of haste maybe?

a. Yeah, I can contribute that way. I have a fairly high AC.
b. Scouting is definitely a thing for him. Without even a single rank in Stealth (he doesn't have it as a class skill until next level) he has a +13 and doesn't have to worry about armor check penalties.
c. True. Don't forget tracking. He can do that via Scent which at this level puts him ahead of most Rangers even.

I was less concerned about these things. He can contribute in other ways. I'm just trying to find some kind of bandaid for his current damage situation. I realize it wont be his strong suit until next level.

LivingDedBoy: Enlarge Person doesn't work in conjunction with Beast Shape as they are both Transmutation Spells. Hell... I hadn't thought about it until now but neither would Bull's Strength. He does get 2 attacks so that amounts to... 1 damage. Twice. Bleh. I'll just have to slog through, I guess.

I would like to correct my earlier self. I could do enlarge person with beast shape. Multiple polymorphs do not stack and multiple enlargements do not stack.

...it just seems wrong to go bigger when my whole goal is to be smaller. ;)

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