Spellcasting from inside a barrel


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

The Exchange

Let's say yer a sorcerer who likes to conjure things. Let's say you like to ride in barrels places, perhaps down a river like a hobbit or whatver. Let's say you do this in pathfinder.

A creature inside a barrel with an eyehole cut out of it can still cast spells targeting outside the barrel right?

Do you have imoroved cover from ranged attacks from outside the barrel?

Can melee attacks hit you while inside the barrel?

Let's say the barrel is adamantine, what then?

Let's say you have a favorite adamantine barrel and have permanent silent image cast on it to cover up the eyeholes so others don't know they are there. What's a decent dc to find the spot where the eyeholes are so your opponent can make the will save to disbelieve the image?

Thannnnmkkss yallllll


Most GM's wont let you do this because of the unfair advantage. At least I certainly wouldn't.

We would generally rule you do not have line of effect outside the barrel, unless you remove the top of the barrel and then are exposed to attack.


Here's how I'd rule:
1) Bobbing down a river in an unstable platform like a barrel? Extremely violent motion - Concentration DC 20+spell level (as per RAW).
2) Eyehole - technically you'll have line of sight and line of effect - but since the barrel really sucks for maintaining a steady line of effect/sight - good luck with that. I'd add another roll of some sort here.
3) Assuming barrel is closed, yes a melee attack could still hit you - eg/rapier through the eyehole, and no, you aren't keeping any dex bonus - in fact, I'm going to rule you have no dex at all. Minuses to hit for the eyehole, but pluses because it's poking a pig in a barrel, you've no where to evade the blade.
4) Adamantite barrel? That's going to cost you a LOT of gp. And it isn't going to float well. And it will weigh a ton.
5) I can't wait to kill you with a Heat Metal spell - cook you alive (assuming amount of metal is within the limits of the spell).

Invis + Fly is going to be so much better, and cheaper, and easier to implement (either via magical device or your own spells). Conjuring doesn't negate your invisibility.

Can't possibly think of a reason as to why anyone would try to implement this as a casting strategy. Not even "rule of cool".

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

You need more than an eyehole...you need at least a 1 square foot opening to have line of effect. So a circular hole would need to be 6.8 inches across or so, which is a much bigger target.

I'd give you cover, but also give you the grappled condition - not much space to move around in a cramped barrel. Your arms would bump the side when you tried to cast so a basic Concentration check seems appropriate.


ryric wrote:
You need more than an eyehole...you need at least a 1 square foot opening to have line of effect. So a circular hole would need to be 6.8 inches across or so, which is a much bigger target.

This is the RAW right here.

ryric wrote:
I'd give you cover

Or even Improved Cover since only the caster's head is visible.

ryric wrote:
but also give you the grappled condition - not much space to move around in a cramped barrel. Your arms would bump the side when you tried to cast so a basic Concentration check seems appropriate.

Not so sure about grappled, especially because the Concentration check uses the barrel's CMB to set the DC, but I like enforcing a Concentration check. I might just call this "Casting Defensively" since that is exactly what the OP is trying to do.

*************************************************************************** *******************************************************************

Back to the OP, yes, you can be attacked. At most you get +6 AC for Improved Cover, or +4 for Cover. Nothing more. Adamantium doesn't change this, it just makes it harder for enemies to Sunder your cover.


I had an idea for a spell. Basically it's a resilient sphere except as a free action the caster can open or close up to a 1' hole anywhere in it. I imagine it'd be at least 6th level, but still worth it.
Edit: attempts to open more than one such hole fail. Hole cannot be closed if blocked by solid object.


DM_Blake wrote:
ryric wrote:
You need more than an eyehole...you need at least a 1 square foot opening to have line of effect. So a circular hole would need to be 6.8 inches across or so, which is a much bigger target.
This is the RAW right here.

I'm glad to hear that, but where is that stated in the rules?


If you're on a river with a barrel made out of adamantine and it has a hole in it, I'd say you have a LOT bigger problems than line of sight.

Like...air.


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Claxon wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
ryric wrote:
You need more than an eyehole...you need at least a 1 square foot opening to have line of effect. So a circular hole would need to be 6.8 inches across or so, which is a much bigger target.
This is the RAW right here.
I'm glad to hear that, but where is that stated in the rules?

PDR CRB: Magic - Line of Effect

PDR wrote:

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.


Ah, the last line in the line of effect rules. Never recalled that being there before. Good to know.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Btw, to be mathematically pedantic because I was unclear before, that 6.8 inches is the radius of the hole, not the diameter. Yes your circle must be slightly more than a foot across to be a 1 square foot opening.


Being inside a cramped barrel will probably give you a significant arcane spell failure chance. Maybe a concentration check as if you were entangled or grappled or casting defensively, though probably not. If your spell is verbal, you'd need to speak strongly. You'd probably also fail most CMD checks, such as checks to trip (oops, tipped your barrel over and rolled it off a cliff. good luck!). You'd probably also fail a lot of electricity and heat-related checks. Also, you would probably also have no move speed to speak of without your friends pushing or you burning a spell slot to animate it. And in a lot of places, a metal barrel would look really out of place. So it's very likely that your barrel would be a hinderance more than a help.

Quote:
To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.


Size of hole covered (need a big enough one for LoE).

If the barrel is in motion concentration check involved.

Moving/Mobility is going to be a serious issue unless using more magic(i.e. Floating Disc etc.).

Adamantine or other metal construction. Expense, weight and further mobility issues as a result. And as mentioned vulnerability to certain spells (What do you mean the barrel has been Greased?!). Then again riding a mount makes one similarly vulnerable so *shrug*.

Ability to end up in your own prison ... what do you mean the wizard used Arcane Lock on the barrel?

On the other hand I have a soft spot for:

Wondrous 2-man Barrel contraption:
Apparatus of the Crab

Aura strong evocation and transmutation; CL 19th

Slot none; Price 90,000 gp; Weight 500 lbs.

Description

At first glance, an inactive apparatus of the crab appears to be a large, sealed iron barrel big enough to hold two Medium creatures. Close examination, and a DC 20 Perception check, reveals a secret catch that opens a hatch at one end. Anyone who crawls inside finds 10 (unlabeled) levers and seating for two Medium or Small occupants. These levers allow those inside to activate and control the apparatus's movements and actions.
Lever (1d10) Lever Function
1 Extend/retract legs and tail
2 Uncover/cover forward porthole
3 Uncover/cover side portholes
4 Extend/retract pincers and feelers
5 Snap pincers
6 Move forward/backward
7 Turn left/right
8 Open/close “eyes” with continual flame inside
9 Rise/sink in water
10 Open/close hatch

Operating a lever is a full-round action, and no lever may be operated more than once per round. However, since two characters can fit inside, the apparatus can move and attack in the same round. The device can function in water up to 900 feet deep. It holds enough air for a crew of two to survive 1d4+1 hours (twice as long for a single occupant). When activated, the apparatus looks something like a giant lobster.

When active, an apparatus of the crab has the following characteristics: hp 200; hardness 15; Spd 20 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC 20 (–1 size, +11 natural); Attack 2 pincers +12 melee (2d8); CMB +14; CMD 24.

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